Monday, January 7, 2013

What Your Boyfriend Notices About Your Mother

There was this gorgeous girl that frequented a bar where I used to hang out in San Diego. When I first saw  and met her, I immediately assumed in my awe that she was out of my league. I forget now how it transpired, but I gradually got to know her better, and eventually realized that she wasn't just hot; she was a really sweet girl too. She also seemed to like me. Because she was so attractive and got approached a lot, I decided to play it cool for a while before making a move - though during that time I got her phone number under casual pretenses.

One night, before I tried to make anything happen, this girl brought her mother to the bar with her, and introduced me. My attraction for her plummeted. Her mother was huge and looked like she'd smoked a million cigarettes while lying in the sun on the beach all day. I am guessing she weighed about 250 lb. Although it had never crossed my mind before, I could suddenly see how the girl I was attracted to could conceivably take a turn for the worst. Perhaps my imagination of the future was skewed by her mother's unattractiveness, but this girl's ever-so-slightly chubby arms suddenly foreshadowed gluttony and sloth. I could see how her breasts, though full and round now, were soft, and had potential to sag like her mothers. And who knows what would happen to her skin - maybe she inherited an ignorance of sunblock. She did have a good tan...

I never pursued her any further. I excused my reluctance by the fact that she wasn't my type - and this was actually true; her mother wasn't the only reason I didn't go for her, but it played a significant part. Whenever I saw her after that, and revisited my decision not to ask her out, the memory of her mother loomed in the back of my mind.

A common adage among men is that "all women turn into their mothers." Most of us are aware of this phenomenon, even if we know it doesn't apply in every case. And although I believe the adage refers to the fate of a woman's personality just as much as her physicality, men (unsurprisingly) pay more attention to the physical implications. You can call this cruel or unfair, but the unfortunate fact is that genetics do play a role in the way a woman ages, and it isn't absurd for a man to want his wife to avoid becoming a monster.

When you introduce your boyfriend to your mother, you can be sure that he evaluates her, and that she reflects on you to some degree. Not all men do this consciously. Many do, but all men will at least consider the "feel" of your family, and this impression is strongly influenced by the health, warmth and appearance of your mother. So if your mother is fat, loud, or nags your father, wears sneakers all the time, cuts her hair short, never makes herself beautiful, or is otherwise unattractive, I suggest dealing with this in the following ways:

1. Delay introducing him to her. Let him fall in love with you first, or at least give him time to recognize your strengths. The more emotional investment he has in you, the less likely he is to care. This includes filtering the quantity and type of photos he sees of your mom. This might seem cruel, but it isn't any more cruel than the effect that your mother's laziness is having on your love life. Maybe it isn't simply a matter of her laziness - and that's fine - but it is still affecting you. The choice is yours.

2. Encourage her to change now, in other words, before you get a serious boyfriend. You don't have to cite all of your reasons for your sudden enthusiasm about her image overhaul; you can focus on the fact that you are concerned for her health, or that you want her to feel better about herself. She has nothing to lose by making herself hotter, or healthier. In fact she has everything to gain. But the point is that so do you. Added bonus: your father will thank you.

3. Tell him how you'll be different. This is the most important means of attacking the problem, and here I won't advocate lying, as I have elsewhere. The best way to do this is by first identifying the root cause of your mother's current "state." Maybe your father is a pushover, so she feels no need to attract him anymore - or maybe she has a medical condition that causes her weight problem. Whatever the root cause is, find it, understand it, then do damage control: mention it casually sometime to your boyfriend, and follow up by pointing out why it won't happen to you.
Example (a) "Ugh, I wish my mom would lose some weight... I am sure it is partially my father's fault - he is such a pushover. She doesn't respect him, so I think she feels no need to be beautiful for him anymore. I wish my dad would man up. The thing is, if she gets hotter, he might man up - it goes both ways." 
Example (b) "Ugh, I wish my mom would lose some weight... Ever since she had that operation it's been a problem. It sucks, and I can't imagine what it's like to struggle with fitness like that. I am at least relieved that [her illness] skips generations."
It is important to realize that most men won't completely write you off because of your mother's appearance (or her personality) - unless you've just met, as in the example I used above. Wishful thinking weighs heavily on your side here: most men will assume that there is no way that their woman could turn out that way. "And besides" he'll tell himself "I will pressure her to eat well and exercise frequently so she doesn't end up like that." But not all men are so naive, and it is worth being aware of the way they think about your mother, so that you can avoid painting yourself in a negative light.

It is also worth mentioning that this phenomenon doesn't always work negatively. I have met or seen photos of previous girlfriends' or dates' mothers and thought "Damn, if I stay with this girl, I can look forward to that in 25 years." Their moms actually made these girls more attractive. Here, too, of course, wishful thinking plays heavily into the phenomenon. But this means that the positive effect of a fit mother can actually be stronger than the negative effect of a sloppy one. Whereas the wishful thinking counteracts the negative anticipation, it actually augments the positive anticipation.

Finally, I am well-aware that women size up a man's father for very similar reasons - and I think this is a smart thing to do.

As I acknowledged before, this might all seem like a cruel and calculating way to think about the woman who bore and raised you, especially if she has struggled to maintain her appearance over the years with little success. I am not claiming that it is honorable, but keep in mind that you aren't mocking your mother for her sloppiness or even holding her responsible; you are simply recognizing the way men think and navigating the situation so that it affects you as mildly as possible. If you navigate it well, no one will be hurt.


Related Posts

121 comments:

  1. Hm well I see what you're getting at. I wouldn't phrase anything the way you suggested in the post because I love my mother dearly, and I don't think she has to change. I would always talk about her respectfully no matter who I'm trying to impress. She is overweight but we both have the same curves. She has a gorgeous face with few wrinkles despite being 56. We are different. I wear make-up more than her, I tan and she doesn't, I'm slimmer and work out in the gym. I've inherited her sweetness and generosity but not all of her tendencies to worry.

    I think men are more scared of my father.He would go no ends to protect me against bad men. He has said that he'd beat a guy up who dishonoured me. And he has failed to be impressed by any guy I've brought home. He gets on with them but none of them have made him think, "he might be worthy of my daughter". He hasn't said so but I can tell.

    My parents are both pretty socially awkward sometimes, in some ways unlike me. They take longer to feel comfortable with new people. I hope this doesn't put men off but it might.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. She has few wrinkles because she doesn't tan. You may want to re-think that tanning thing. It's probably the worst thing you can do for your skin.

      Delete
    2. Well I only tan when I go on holiday to the Continent. I am naturally medium-complexioned. I don't sunbathe nor do I use sunbeds. I tan walking around on holiday naturally. I wear SPF every day.

      Delete
  2. Not every woman inerits her looks from her mother's side. I'm tall, blond and slim just like my father. My mother's short, stocky and dark-haired.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Haha, your mum may need to ask for a maternity test.

      Delete
    2. I resemble my father more as well. This is not an accurate assessment of a woman's genetic fate, and of how she will age. You have to take into account both parents. My mother is certainly not obese, but she's a lot heavier than me. However, I'm extremely petite, and have inherited my father's metabolism, not hers. He eats well, and looks as skinny as an Ethiopian today. Also, there are other factors that can contribute to a woman's mother gaining weight. Some women let themselves go after a failed marriage, or two. My mother has bad eating habits, but I think we live in a huge workout culture today, and a great deal of us are going to age better in the end because of it. To overlook a quality woman based on such faulty, and erroneous conclusions would be unwise, but then again, maybe it's in her best interest to lose men who make such unfounded assumptions, anyway.

      Delete
  3. My mother has let herself go after my dad passed away,she isn't overweight but she just looks tired and stressed out.She also suffers from anxiety and depression although she wont admit to it.Ive tried to be as supportive as I can but it gets me down because she won't change.I wouldnt introduce a boyfriend to her unless he was serious about me and loved me.
    I like this blog, especially its focus on self improvement but in my experience its impossible to change others.I love my mother immensely if a bf dumped me because of her then I know he's not worth my time.People should understand that no one's family is perfect.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I am also tall, grey-eyed, blond and slim and take after my father. My mum is tiny (too skinny), brunette, brown-eyed.

    My mum doesn't do herself hardly any favours and she doesn't seem to want to change. She's smoked every day since the age of 19 and she used to tan a lot. It is showing on her face. She doesn't colour her her anymore and it is thin (mine is really thick). There are other things too...

    Yes, I did feel hesitant to show her to my bf, but he was already so much in love that he didn't say anything.

    My dad is the vain one, but he again, should really work on his personality!

    Love them both, but just because you're getting older, I don't think you should stop trying to figure out how to better yourself.

    ReplyDelete
  5. I wonder if women should judge a future husband by how successful his dad is since the apple never falls far from the tree and all.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I know that one's parents are a strong influence, but that's going too far. If a girl knows a guy well enough to be introduced to his parents, chances are she has better ways to assess whether he's a loser or not than to look at his dad.

      Now, if you don't want to end up with a bald guy, do take notice of the dad's head. :-)

      Delete
    2. Actually believe it or not, male pattern baldness is inherited from the mother's family, with the specific gene for androgen receptors located on the X chormosome inherited from the mother. So you should be looking at his mother's brothers for an indication of future baldness.

      Funny how testosterone manifest in hair everyelse on the body except the head, and that women progammed to desire traits of testosterone in men are turned off by baldness.

      Delete
    3. Haha, you sound like my brother. He was utterly convinced that he would go bald cause every guy in my mother's family did, whereas my dad has full hair at almost 70. He's 32 now and still not showing any sign of hairloss, so I doubt it's going to happen.

      Wikipedia backs me up:

      'Men whose fathers had experienced hairloss were 2.5 times more likely to experience hairloss themselves, regardless of the mother's side of the family.'
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldness

      Delete
  6. What if the boy's mom looks like road kill? Wouldn't he potentially be setting up any daughters he has for looking like road kill? Hmm

    ReplyDelete
  7. Andrew,
    You've got to be careful with posts like this one because it might actually make you less credible. I'm sure all guys think this at some point, but it's in conjunction with a myriad of other thoughts that temper the most superficial ones.

    Most guys want the "whole package", including a girl's hot mother, but do they ever think that it's within their reach or even remotely realistic? Lots of men marry beautiful women, but end up still unsatisfied. Plenty of men marry plain janes and are quite happy.

    Even supermodels don't always have the hottest moms. A hot mom is a bonus, but not a critical factor if you really connect with a girl. Overall, to reject a girl because she's got a fat mom is a bit excessive.

    Andrew, you've got to post a picture of yourself someday. Only by revealing yourself this way can readers really see if your comments are slightly delusional. It's possible you are a very intelligent but unattractive guy, living his fantasy life on this blog as if he's the uber hot stud of his fantasies.

    Come on.... most dating advice blogs are accompanied by a photo of the advice giver.... This seems to be the only one that doesn't...and after reading this post, I'm starting to wonder why.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Me too. haha I want to see if he's as hot as he sounds.

      Delete
    2. What Andy looks like has no bearing on the accuracy of his advice.

      As far as I know, he has made no claims to being a master player or irresistible ladies' man. He claims to be a man that thinks like a man and can inform women how men generally think, and he does pretty well at that.

      Whether or not you think he is physically attractive does not mean that your fat mother won't turn off the guy you brought over.



      Delete
    3. Aw haha I was kidding. I think Andrew sounds like a good guy and I value his advice. Anon #2 here

      Delete
    4. I think Andrew is fairly correct on this issue.

      I remember my first girlfriend used to put on a small amount of weight on her hips and bum whenever she got stressed. I never paid much attention to it until I met her mother - she was like an identical older sister - with a huge bum! It certainly gave me a fright and made me realize what she would look like in 25 years time.

      Andrew has already said he's 6'2" so I'm prepared to accept he's good-looking and that what he says is accurate.

      Delete
    5. I've never claimed to be the hottest guy in the world. I am slim, muscular, 6'2", and I have a full head of dark brown medium-length hair. I always wear trimmed facial hair, and I do my best to dress well. I also have prominent blue eyes. I am 28 but unfortunately I look older. People usually guess 31 these days.

      I get people telling me I look like Josh Lucas almost every time I go out. I admit that the resemblance is strong at times, especially in the eyes. This picture is uncannily close: Josh Lucas

      I don't want to post a picture because I want to remain anonymous. I want to remain anonymous for two reasons:

      (a) It would hurt the reputation of my conservative religious parents if their friends and extended family read this stuff.

      (b)It would inevitably seem to the girls I date that I expect them to live up to everything I write on here, which isn't true by any means.

      Delete
    6. So out look like the average guy on the street, that's good, thats the most attractive and most appealing look, Im sure you'll find what you want/need eventually. Thanks for a good blog.

      Delete
    7. There's really no need for you to give us a picture. You give great advice, and you don't need to be hot to give it.

      Delete
    8. Never heard of Josh Lucas and a quick Google search has got me wondering why...! ;)

      Delete
    9. Josh Lucas looks wayyy hotter with no facial hair ;)

      Delete
    10. I don't think Andrew should be careful with these kinds of posts at all! They don’t s make him less credible. These types of posts may sound superficial, and Andrew is probably saying something you don't want to hear, but it’s obviously factual, at least it’s what he thinks…and by the way, I just asked my two brothers about this (they are very good looking men) and they agree with Andrew.

      Sure, this post sounds a bit superficial, but Andrew is giving insight on what actually goes through his head and from the looks of it, it's not just him. Women think a lot of superficial things about guys too and never admit to it! It goes both ways, being honest and blunt does not diminish credibility.

      I personally don't care what Andrew looks like, and really don't care to ever find out. The blog gives me a good idea about what goes on in a guy’s head, and even if I don’t agree, I definitely think about it. You can disagree with what's said here, but that doesn’t mean Andrew is going to stop thinking about these particular topics, not to mention the rest of the men in this world.

      Be thankful someone is actually saying something…being open about topics that could easily be categorized as taboo…

      Cheers!

      Delete
  8. He's telling us the truth. Don't offend him for it.

    ReplyDelete
  9. I've heard this several times before. It's right on the mark.

    ReplyDelete
  10. short hair isn't as unattractive as you make it out to be. There are plenty of guys, attractive guys, who think some women look good BECAUSE of it and not DESPITE it. It wouldn't suit everyone,but that goes for almost anything in life because everyone's different. There are many women I know who've been hit on waay more after cutting their hair.just because you and your small group of friends don't care for it doesn't mean every other man or the majority of men feel the same.you haven't spoken to every single man on planet earth so you just spewing that as some fact is bs.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My long hair used to weigh me down. The short cut actually makes me look 5 years younger and accentuates my eyes. I think the type of short hair that turns men off is probably buzz cut.

      Delete
    2. There is a type for everyone. The only really big turn-off is hair that isn't well maintained, regardless of length - although I am sure there is someone out there that also likes split ends and messy, unkept hairstyles.
      But all in all: Having a style that makes you feel sexy will make you look sexy.

      Delete
    3. I think some girls pull it off and men will still find them attractive, however the majority prefer longer hair. I think Andrew is saying that it's what men prefer and not that short hair is a total turnoff.

      I've never met a single man who has said "I prefer very short hair on a girl." Never. Not once. neither have you. Keep lying to yourself or wake up. It's your choice.

      Also the majority of your male friends (and mine) are betas. They aren't likely to get picky about hair because they aren't having their pick. If you want a great catch, an alpha male (who is picky because he has options) you'd be shooting yourself in the foot by not growing it out.

      Delete
    4. Mine is called "a-line bob" which is very neat in my opinion. Why would I want to be with any man who needs his woman to wear long hair for him to feel manly? He probably would like me to quit driving stick too!

      Delete
    5. I'm the picky one. Alfa males are boring and a total turn-off

      Delete
    6. Anne Hathaway dropped from an 8 out of 10 to a 5 when she cut her hair short. Granted she doesn't have the face to suit short hair, but on balance long hair always looks better

      Delete
    7. Anne Hathaway cut her hair because of her role in Les Miserables. she also got reallllly skinny for that role.

      I did have one BF who liked it when I had really short hair (I was a swimmer).... but I am 35... 1 guy in 35 years... all other guys have preferred me with long hair so I think Andrew is right on with that point.

      Delete
    8. As far as hair length goes, I think most men prefer long hair. However, there is a minority (I'm not sure how small it is) who prefer short hair.

      Some women look more attractive with short hair. For example, Halle Berry looks like an average suburban soccer mom with long hair, but she is smokin' hot with the short haircut.

      Delete
  11. Although here is a secret fr you: It's actually how we are acting around our fathers that is the real clue, if a girl blames her dad you can bet she will blame you the same way, its the same way we women look at the guys and their relationship to the mother: If the mother-son relationship is not working out, or if he doesn't have a healthy, grown-up relationship to his mother, I am not interested. If he is like a school boy with her, he will soon expect me to be his mother - not interesting.
    That said I wait a long time before I introduce anyone to my mother, as sweet and funny as she is. Or, if you get to meet her early on, you can be sure all I want is a good friendship, not a relationship with you. My friends can meet my mum but boyfriends have to wait a long time.

    ReplyDelete
  12. *(b)It would inevitably seem to the girls I date that I expect them to live up to everything I write on here, which isn't true by any means.

    Why isn't it true Andrew? What makes your posting here "The Truth", but when applied to real life, it isn't "true by any means?".

    Let's say you do marry a hot girl who's 25. 15 years elapse and you are now 43 and she's 40. Base on your observations about what men think, you could very easily trade her in for a new model- let's say one who's 30. In fact, you could keep going and keep trading up..... Why do men bother marrying if the most superficial aspects of women are what appeals to them most? Wouldn't it make more sense to have serial partners? That way you can avoid the whole "she's now looking like her fat mother situation". Also, would you ever reveal to the girl you eventually marry the contents of this blog? And are your parent's relationship a good example of your observed male/female mating strategies? If you marry at 30 and get hit by a truck 4 years later, become paralyzed, would you still have the heart to publish this same article, though it may be a true slice of the typical male mind?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh my God, leave him alone, it's his life and his choices! Just because you change Andrew's mind on whom he should date, doesn't mean the men around you will change. So why bother? He's just giving us infrmation to help US live OUR life to the full in the current society of men. If you find it disturbing or don't find it helpful, stop reading this blog. Why waste your time?

      Delete
    2. You know it's the superficial stuff is the icing on the core values.

      Delete
    3. I've often thought the same thing about the super superficial aspects of the posts, which read sort of immature and not well-rounded. It's great that you are an physically near perfect Adonis, and hold your self and others to high standards, but you should be phasing out of this hot-appearance-is every-thing high-school thinking at your age. Nearing 30, people are focused on careers, mortgages, babies, real estate, mostly freaking out about salary and career ladder and such, keeping up with the Joneses. (Unless you are from a rich family? Who are deeding you the house and handing you a business? I find it odd a man your age is not at all concerned with the serious business of life?) Beauty seems to be weighted at 99% of these posts on partner selection, with a sweet personality second. Your wife will need to be smart, self-reliant, have good values (education, skills, hobbies, charities, sports, community, religion). Even if a woman is perfect in all other aspects, she may be with a guy like Andrew that keeps waiting indefinitely (remember Giselle and Leo DiCaprio- she had to get marriage and babies from some one else). Life is HARD. Who cares if she looks like a Victorias Secret model- what if she isn't well spoken, or driven or smart, or doesn't contribute to intelligent conversation, is a lackluster hostess/lover/cook. There are soooo many other important things, hyper focus on the beautiful is odd, (except maybe in Los Angeles, in middle age men circles, tee hee hee). If that is your deal, just accept it and don't marry, just co-habitate (like George Clooney) with (fem-bot) beautiful women and don't hunt for a wife, because she is human and will age! 100% guaranteed. Or, (not politically correct, but-)you could date really young and impressionable girls and mold them to your ideal? (Elvis did that with Priscilla). It seems like you are having trouble reconciling this. Men can get REALLY caught up in the search for the PERFECT WOMAN, and seem to have a fear of aging, or their wife aging, but it is inevitable. And, not at all horrible, I honestly promise! I know you won't believe me now, (but maybe you will in a decade or two)...I'm thinking it could be a deeper issue of emotional unavailability and fear of intimacy?

      Delete
    4. I focus on superficial topics for a couple reasons:

      1. They are easier to change
      2. Men have less variety of taste when it comes to the superficial issues, so it is easier to tailor them to "men in general" rather than the guy you want.'

      If you draw the conclusion that therefore I am superficial, that is your error of judgement.

      Also, to clarify: when I said "which isn't true by any means" I was referring to the notion that I expect women to live up to everything I write about. I don't. I didn't mean that what I write on here isn't true by any means. It was a poorly structured sentence; I see the ambiguity.

      Delete
    5. *Shrug* No biggie. For neither the ambiguous sentence structure or the 'check out her mom first' logic. I log in regularly regardless, not sure why? I'm past husband shopping age, closer to Josh Lucas age... didn't know him and had to google. The blog is making me more superficial, indeed. I bought Noxzema bikini shavers and they are great (after a painful $60 rash from waxing, never again!) love them. Simple pleasures. Not sure where this gets me. Then I went to Victorias Secret semi annual sale and spent hundreds on sale bras and panties, go to the gym every day and have long, thick hair, (organic only food/beauty products), good bone structure, etc. all the superficial is covered, (and mind/personality) ad nauseum, but absolutely none of this has changed my REAL life. I dunno, Andrew. I don't live in the suburbs either. I look down the block and see average, overweight, uneducated, short haired moms in two million dollar houses? Saw one yesterday screaming at her really young child, so her husband wasn't pre-occupied with beauty OR temperament. *sigh*

      Delete
    6. Might I suggest that although I admittedly write MOST topics on superficial subjects, you also have focused on those ones, rather than the few I have written about developing as a person. I think it is easier for everyone (the writer and the reader) to focus on things that you can see and touch rather than the more nebulous ones that deal with personality and character.

      Delete
    7. I find some of these attempts at shaming Andrew for telling the truth of what GENERALLY goes on in male minds, especially those males with options, embarrassingly pathetic. There is no reason he should have to apologize because male standards threaten your self worth and ego invested belief systems.

      The truth will remain the truth whether you choose to believe it or like it. It may rain on your birthday this year, but do not stupidly and immaturely take it out on the weather man.

      As a first generation American woman, I find the entitlement complexes of a lot of American princesses to be pretty damn laughable. It's as though many want to do whatever they want without any regard for negative consequences. And when negative consequences arise, they become indignant over the consequences and everyone else for making these consequences possible as opposed to modifying their behavior.I'm so sorry, but being an adult doesn't work what way and life isn't fair.

      Cutting your hair for the overwhelming majority of woman will lessen your physical appeal rather than enhance it despite what your gay hair stylist, girlfriend and involuntarily celibate make friends tell you or how many heterosexual men you attempt to shame for having certain in-built preferences.

      However, you can do what you want! The beauty of this blog is that Andrew is merely suggesting ways in which you can optimize your dating potential rather than holding a gun up to your head to do so. I know for many of the brats on here, it's difficult to delineate between the two, but rest assured, you are still very much entitled to your rights to do the complete opposite of what he suggests. At least you'll be aware of the consequences. Whether you choose to be indignant over them or not is up to your maturity level.

      Complaining about what men look for in women is akin to loser, bitter guys complaining that women are shallow for wanting men who are gainfully employed. A complaint that would be mocked by most anyone, yet when women complain about the physical preferences men have for women, they aren't aware they are doing the same exact thing.

      Delete
    8. Reading comprehension. The post above yours states that she is doing what Andrew suggests.

      Delete
  13. I think he meant he does not expect the girls he dates to live up to the standards in his post. If he likes a girl, he dates her, and what he writes in these blogs should not make her doubt his feelings.

    ReplyDelete
  14. My 21yr old daughter and I both read your blog. She for your advice and I so I can see what she is facing out there and to be her sounding board. Your advice is spot on Andrew. One thing that I think I would add is that many young couples don't understand the fact that when you marry, you not only marry that person but you also marry their family. Your SO's personality is formed by the genetic and social makeup of of their family; and for good or ill his/her family will have some influence in your marriage and be a part of it. So it is very important to look at all aspects of your SO's life when dating for a mate.
    Example,
    How do they handle conflict, projects, money?
    Are they more relaxed, devil may care types or are they serious and methodical?
    Are they active or lazy, ambitious or unassuming, simple or complex?
    What do they value?
    These are some of the questions I ask my daughter when she brings home someone she is serious about. After all this young man has the potential to be the father of my grandchildren someday and I want the best for them as much as I want the best for my daughter.

    Finally yes, mothers most of the time do reflect what their daughters will become as they age physically and mature in personality. I have a responsiblity to look and be my best because I know whatever I do, does reflect on my family, and anyone who will tell you otherwise is lying to you. In the end each person is their own but still has a responsiblity to family and those cloesest to them. Anon at 9:56 has great point, watch how he/she interacts with their family it will speak volumes about what you can expect in your relationship.

    Thanks for all you do Andrew, and don't give the nit picking absolutists a second thought.;)

    ReplyDelete
  15. Isn't everything in dating relative and situational? ie; if you are a hot young girl of 26 and the guy is 35, not so tall, ok career, then perhaps he may no have reservations about dating her if she's got a fat mother.

    It's true that you can nitpick everything to death, and i suppose this blog is for those who are in a particular demographic (younger, educated, perhaps white), but the ways things play out in real life usually veer slightly off the ideal/absolute when all things are factored in.

    ie: if you are an average looking guy of 27 and you meet a 29 year old woman who is a lot hotter than you, then you may think that's a better choice than a less beautiful woman younger than you. Wouldn't your children carry better genes?

    ie: Given a choice between a tall, cute man who makes an average living versus a short surgeon/concert pianist, wouldn't most women pick the taller guy?

    Not trying to discredit Andrew, but when I look around me and see actual couples in real life, there's often some sort of variable that changes things.

    4 weddings I went to in the past 2 years:

    1. Hot White Guy 31, marrying an even hotter 33 year old Latina with a fat mother. He's a bleeding heart liberal attracted to darker women.

    2. Tall, average build Asian male making six figures, 32, marrying a slight chubby blonde, 28.

    3. Trust fund heiress, 42, marries 37 year high school teacher.

    4. Divorce white male, 39, marries overweight 26 year old white female.

    In all four cases, Andrew's advice on this blog isn't necessarily challenged,
    ( though he has not really written much about race and dating) but when all things are factored in ( age, looks, status), most people in the end have to make some sort of compromise.

    I suspect that not all men have the luxury of rejecting a hot girl with a fat mom, even though he may still make a value judgement based on that premise.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "though he has not really written much about race and dating"

      Yet.

      Delete
    2. Andrew's advice is a generalization of what to expect (something I usually hate in the manosphere.)
      I have a saying "Apples don't fall far from the tree, but some do roll."

      Call it kismet, devine intervention, destiny, luck of the genetic draw or whatever you will but sometimes people don't fit in the molds we want to stuff them into and hurrah for that! It's the unexpected variables in life that keeps us on our toes, spices things up and keeps life exciting. But in general most people will go along with what they already know, following the patterns well prescribed for them whether genetically or by nurture. It really depends on where you come down on the nature vrs. nurture arguement. IMO its about 65/35 in favor of nature.

      Delete
    3. I'd love to see an honest post about race and dating.

      Delete
  16. Women in non- Western countries are much more conscious of gender politics in dating. Most of what Andrew writes here is just common knowledge in many parts of the world.
    For example, in Asia, women just know that they should remain virtuous, make every attempt at beautification and try to land a husband before they hit 28. Also, they know that how their mothers looks reflect on them.

    Because of this, many women seek cosmetic surgery and even give up children they had out of wedlock in order to snag a husband. Women have gotten so smart about this, that matchmakers now have to see childhood pictures of their clients and pictures of their mother as children before making a match. They also conduct interviews with references to get a better feel for a woman's dating history.

    So, as a woman there, you can make all the right moves, but still be passed over if your basic DNA is less than ideal.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Great post! I do the same for men. The last two men I dated, I based my decision off their fathers...not in terms of looks, but in terms of character, consistency and likelihood that I will be happily married and stay married etc etc. Both guys were exactly like their dad. and so I jumped ship....I wonder if other females do this too! It's a useful strategy.

    ReplyDelete
  18. The way I see it, Andrew's advice is useful for women to OPTIMIZE their dating hand. One can have short hair and think that they look perfectly fine, but that does not change the fact that the most favored hairstyle for women is long hair. Just take it or leave it. Keeping in mind that leaving it is decreasing your chances in the pool of men.
    As for judging your future spouse looks by their parents current looks', I totally do the same thing with guys. There is room for wiggle room because not everyone follows the footsteps of their parents. However, it's still a very good look at the known lifestyle that they've grown up with it.

    I also second the motion about the post on race and dating! Sounds really interesting.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm leaving it. I definitely don't need more.

      Delete
    2. I hope you don't take my post in a negative light. As an African girl, living in the US, with natural hair. It's obvious that most men prefer a white woman's hair texture over that of a black woman. But what can ya do? I'm not going to sit and moan about the fact that men prefer a specific trait that I don't have.
      I stand up, dust myself, and get over it. It may be one deterrent, but I sure as heck can make up for it by refining and highlighting other aspects of my features. Such as my slim but curvy body, my intelligence, etc.
      That's life, you're not everyone's complete cup of tea. But you can shine your other features so much that it makes up for the unfavorable.

      Delete
    3. Here is a really interesting blog on the attractiveness of black women - very scientific! http://xenlogic.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/underrated-black-woman.html

      Delete
    4. Ive always thought East African women to be beautiful and elegant,Iman comes to mind.I don't think anyone ever looked at her and said damn she's hot but her hair isn't.

      Delete
    5. No one looked at her and said "damn she's hot but her hair isn't" because she wears weaves/wigs/extensions that are made to mimic straighter, more European hair textures, which reinforces the previous woman's point that when it comes to hair straight/European>kinky/African.

      Also, most black women in America are of West African descent, be them descendent of slaves or recent immigrants so bringing up Iman and East Africans in general misses the point. Especially give the very distinct physical differences between the two groups.

      Delete
  19. I posted earlier about women in Asia knowing all the rules for optimizing their dating hand, but still struggle with dating in other ways.

    This blog is an interesting read for me because I spent a good part of my adult life in Asia where none of his advice would come across as being genius- just common knowledge and to dispute it would make one sound foolish. Because women in general don't have the same career opportunities as men there and societal pressures are brutal, striving to land a high caliber mate is a priority. Doing whatever you can to optimize your dating hand is like breathing for most women. Very few women would wear short hair. And all those "naturally thin Asian women" diet like hell to stay that way. Dating younger men? Forget it! Time waster!

    But from what I observe, there is a lot of misery behind the facade of many marriages where partners were chosen based on superficial traits ( which is many marriages, it seems, but they would never admit to it.)

    Landing a high caliber mate is one thing. Whether or not it will bring you lasting love and happiness is another.

    Yes, Andrew, I would love to hear your perspective on race and dating. In Asia, and most parts of the world, "fairness of skin" is highly coveted by men. Would you say that the hierarchy of desirability for the average man is just a natural state?

    In Asia, the subject of race is not treated as delicately as it is here in the States.

    So... it's one thing to say that women should try to lose weight, dress better, be conscious of mothers who are fat, but what about your opinion on dangerous skin lightening creams, Asian double eyelid surgery and ethnic nose slimming procedures? Trust me, many of these measures are done with the intention of securing a husband.

    There's nothing you written so far that's truly controversial. Do you, Andrew, an anonymous,observant, young white man dare to say what most people in Asia would openly acknowledge about race and desirability? And will there ever be a point where exposing the "truth" will ever make you long for a different world?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why is his opinion on skin lightening in Africa and India, and eye nose surgery in Asia important? What point are you trying to make?

      Delete
    2. Stand by for the post. It will raise some eyebrows, I am sure.

      Delete
    3. I am anon, posting with my name here.. didn't realize you could do it without an url.

      I'm the gal from Asia posting about race/surgery etc...

      Can't wait to see what you have to say...

      Delete
    4. Aspen
      I'm a 29 year old regular white guy and never noticed race as an issue before either...until I went on vacation to Thailand. My god it was an experience - I felt like a rockstar! (I think it had much more to do with economics than race though).

      Looking forward to seeing what Andrew has to say as well.

      Delete
    5. It's a combination of race, economics and novelty.

      But it's not as straight forward as you think.... Many Asians believe they are intellectually superior, but physically inferior to whites. To your face you may be treated like a rockstar, but in private... that's another story.

      On a side note, I once dated an extremely hot and successful Swedish Guy. The type of guy who can land a supermodel. Now this guy had liberal white guilt syndrome. He ended up marrying a very pretty Korean American girl, whom most people would think was below him in looks. The race variable affects dating outcomes in quite significant ways.

      I also have male Asian friends, now in their 30's who are investment bankers in New York. Essentially, to land the same hot white girls that eligible white men can get more easily, these guys have to earn 10 times as much..and be twice as fit.

      Race can be an asset or a handicap...and is rarely neutral as most people profess to believe. You have to play your cards carefully and know who you are dealing with, otherwise, you just become an experiment in novelty.


      In Asia, it's really quite depressing the way dorky white guys with no game suddenly become hot commodity. ( not implying that you are this).

      Delete
    6. Aspen,

      I agree wholeheartedly with what you have written and I too look forward to Andrew's post on the matter, if only because it is not everyday you hear white males speak directly about race and its relation to dating. Although, one doesn't really have to hear them, just take a look at what they do and the answers to any questions pertaining to dating will be revealed. Im hoping his anonymity propels him to write the whole truth as he sees it for the benefit of us readers. Andrew has a vey direct and observational style of writing and doesn't seem to care if he offends/puts people off if he is delivering the truth, a trait I admire very much.

      To be frank, IME its rare to find a white American male that can tackle this issue insightfully because for better or worse their race and position(relative to males of other races) in the world can make it hard for them to empathize and accurately weigh the factors that effect non-whites in the American dating landscape. I don't say this to be negative, nor do I think its inherently bad (we all have our blind spots) but its true, IME. You either get useless, PC, ego-boosting, "white liberal guilt syndrome" answers by people who proclaim "I don't see race!" This topic has come up with whites IRL and I have found some to be unusually defensive to the point of accusing non-whites of wanting "affirmative action dating" LOL.

      I look forward to reading more of your comments! Cheers!

      Delete
    7. I don't think I've ever gotten a straightforward answer from any white male regarding race and look forward to Andrew tackling this topic.

      It's actually quite painful for non whites to see the "best of their tribe" scooped up by whites, male or female. It's one thing to work at maximizing your femininity and looks, but it's another to work at appealing to a Euro-centric standard. It almost feels unnaturally cruel.

      I met a black woman recently along with her white husband and two daughters. The children were extremely good looking, with green eyes. The woman was very attractive- a surgeon, in fact. Her husband was a dumpy unemployed beta. After hearing about her story from a mutual friend, we concluded that given her dating options, she made the best choice she could, if she wanted her children to have advantages in this world. She married at 28.

      In short, hot professional black men weren't interested in her. Of course, she could have picked a successful Asian male, or another black male who wasn't as good looking or successful, but in all honesty, would these other choices resulted in children with a superficial genetic advantage?

      I doubt your average pretty 28 year old white woman would have to compromise so much.

      And yes... this topic is incredibly depressing..

      Delete
    8. Aspen and Y
      I'm a bit reluctant to get too involved into the issue of race because I don't want to sabotage this thread (what men think of a girl's mother) and also because white men are the only group who can't talk about race relations without being considered in someway ignorant or even condescending - we will lose whatever position we take so that's why don't say anything.

      But yes I, for one, am well aware of race relations in dating and the perceived hierarchy that is perhaps a vestigial remnant of times past and due to the global influence of Western culture (films, media, advertising etc.) which, as you say, possibly has a Euro-centric bias in its idea of 'beauty'. This issue will probably fade in importance as power, wealth and influence shift towards Asia over the coming decades though.

      I won't do this topic the justice that Andrew will so I'll leave it to him to expound upon.

      Delete
    9. Aspen, I find your comments to be the only depressing ones on this thread. Like Thomas, I am sorry to comment on something not following the purpose of this post, but I feel compelled to answer.

      Perhaps it is just that you are not explaining yourself accurately or I am misinterpreting your opinion, so I am not trying to attack you, but your comments imply that the black woman married the white unemployed man to confer to her children a genetic advantage in appearance (ex: having "green eyes"). While some women who date interracially (I just found out today) do marry another race in a confusing/self-hating effort enhance the appearance of their offspring, the vast majority do not. In fact, more black women would refuse to date outside of their race than most other female racial groups. As an African-American, successful woman, I have mostly dated outside of my race. It never crossed my mind to do so to create 'superior offspring' which is a racist idea to begin with. It happened because I am constantly around men of all types of backgrounds. Still, I am not unaware of the impact that our culture has had on holding blonde, blue-eyed females as the ideal, and am interested like you, to hear Andrew's thoughts on the matter.

      More to the point, if you had said that the woman in your example chose to marry the white man to confer to her children an economic advantage (if the husband were financially successful), I would agree with you that this was a possibility. However, the depressing thing is that:

      a) you believe that whites have a true "genetic advantage," when in fact it is just our society which prizes euro-centric beauty, as Thomas wrote. (Theoretically, having white traits would confer heightened success in America for your offspring, so there is some point to your argument but it is an societal/economic advantage, not a genetic one that relies upon the incorrect belief that there is anything genetically superior about Europeans).
      b) it is understandable and depressing to you that women would mate with lower status white males as a better option than successful members of other races. Essentially, you're saying she made the right decision to marry the unemployed white man over the successful Asian man. This is absurd. It relies on the assumption that everyone would marry a white mate if they could, and this just isn't true. Again, our culture has held white people as the standard of beauty, but that is one trait that influences dating options along with (as Andrew has written throughout his blog): weight, femininity, openness, speaking ability, confidence etc. While being white may be desirable to some people, being more curvy might be desirable for others, and they may decide to date a Latina woman instead. The point of the blog is to maximize your abilities to attract and keep quality men.

      Someone else on this blog had a comment I found to be spot on about how different races change their appearance (tan/get lip implants/eyelid surgery/straightening hair) not to look black or white or Asian etc. but to achieve the best traits from all of these races and therefore attract the most men. I think what Andrew is able to add to this discussion on race and dating is learning what the average white male feels about dating outside his race as a baseline measure, and what non-whites can do if they want to maximize their chances of dating white males. Maybe a non-white man would be best to discuss how to best attract average members of his race/culture.

      Delete
    10. This black woman would have preferred to marry a successful, good looking black male. But since these men weren't interested in her, she had to open herself up to the men we were available. I should clarify that the white husband is currently dumpy and unemployed, but at the time of their marriage he was an aspiring film maker and average looking, average shape.

      In any case, enough about race on this thread as it's a bit off topic now.

      Delete
    11. Aspen - the reason your post is confusing is that you first say she married a white man to secure a 'genetic superior' offspring. The next you say she did so due to lack of options. So which one is it?
      If she failed to get a high quality man of ANY race, which it seems, that reflects her own attractiveness. Black men marry black women all the time. If she didn't make the cut, that is not racism at her part. And I can add the fact that she is a surgeon is irrelevant. It has already been said on this blog (and supported by male commenters) that men don't care about such accomplishments.

      Delete
    12. It's both. A good looking, successful black guy (her first pick) would have theoretically given her good looking, smart kids. A good looking, successful white guy also would have ( theoretically) given her good looking, smart kids, but this option didn't seem to be available either.

      Since she's smart enough for two :), she picked a more average white guy in which she could maximize her odds of having good looking children. I suppose she could have continued to improve herself, so that she could land a higher caliber mate, but it would be offset by her advancing age...

      Delete
    13. Such it the situation for all of us. How much to self improve at the cost of other things.
      As women are becoming more educated and wealthier and STILL want to marry up, there is a conflict. There is simply not enough men to go around. There are few enough that are high social status/educated/wealthy, if you add looks onto that, as well as "commitment-minded", you're shooting for the stars. I'm a white female 9, and even I do not look for exceptionally good looking men, just successful ones. I see compromise as a good thing, for my own happiness.

      She obviously had a problem with either attractiveness or expectations. There are plenty of white women who end up with "average" white men as well.

      Delete
    14. Since she chose to get married, rather than remain single, I would say that she wasn't unreasonable- otherwise she'd just be complaining about the shortage of men. But here's the thing- her daughters are BEAUTIFUL. In the ended she made a smart, calculated choice. You are right, most women end up with average men. Perhaps "dumpy" was too strong an adjective to describe the husband. But in comparison to her, you can't help but notice how he's just not super high caliber.

      Delete
    15. ..."she picked a more average white guy in which she could maximize her odds of having good looking children"

      So, in your opinion, the successful Asian man would not even have been an option--the average white guy would automatically make a better mate?

      Delete
    16. pretty obvs that aspen is racist. asians, more so than whites, usually are.

      Delete
    17. and aspen's focus on good looking children is creepy

      Delete
    18. It's ok if you call me a racist for making the observation that I did.
      I'm aware of what the PC thing to say should be.

      It is true that in Asia, where I spent several years, people don't mince their words regarding race.

      I grew up in the States though. And to be honest, my early years of dating were unsuccessful because I didn't factor in race as much as I should. I truly and naively believe that "what was inside counted most".

      As Andrew is continuously pointing out, men are superficial and it would be prudent to accept this is if you want to maximize your dating odds. And since this seems to be the spirit of this blog, I am telling the story from the most superficial angle.

      There is great variety in the physical appearance of members of the same race. Those whose features are more in line with Western standards tend to have more options. Andrew has mentioned on this blog a preference for darker/Mediterranean women. I suspect these women might be ethnic... but not so much that they wouldn't still be beautiful base on the Western ideal.

      In Asia, if a woman has double eyelid surgery, she is being practical- doing whatever she can to maximize her success in life.

      In American, if she does the same thing, she's a self-hating racist.

      I wouldn't say that Asians are more racist than whites. They are just less burdened by political correctness and are not as idealistic.

      In the past, because I felt so westernized inside, I thought I could compete with men the same way white women could. This is as delusional as women believing their success/education counts.

      Delete
    19. Aspen is saying exactly what we non-white north americans tend to ignore. Race matters.

      Despite the efforts that some black women may make professionally and physically, they still face insurmountable stereotypes. They must also adhere to a "beauty ideal" that isn't physically attainable without surgery. I should stress that SOME black women cannot attain this ideal without surgery or even skin lightening products.

      When we take all of these things in consideration the pool of available men is considerably much lower and even worse if she only wants to marry black man.

      I can tell you from experience that my dating prospects are bare when I restrict myself to black men. That being said, I'm not getting much attention from men from other race when I "open myself to other prospects"...

      Delete
    20. I think that is because white and black men have a very different view of what a beautiful woman is. White men like women who look like children.

      AnonymousLilly

      Delete
  20. Skin lightening, eye/nose surgery is often suggested to women in these countries to help them optimize their dating options. Since this blog is about helping women navigate the world of mate selection, I'm curious what Andrew thinks.

    I'll be honest, I've had cosmetic surgery and afterwards, my dating options increased greatly. Anyways, this is slightly off topic in this thread... BUT my mother also had cosmetic surgery....Is this deception ( or double deception, if the mother also has had work done)? Andrew hasn't advocated any really extreme measures yet...FYI, not all plastic surgery looks fake.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What did you have done that helped so greatly? I am hoping to get one thing in the next year.

      Delete
  21. Thank goodness my mom takes good care of herself and looks years younger than her actual age. I myself am almost 43 and get mistaken for mid-30s all the time. My boyfriend just met my mom, so this post was a bit reassuring.

    ReplyDelete
  22. My folks invested in my education. They believed that financial independence works better than a high caliber husband. They were right. :-)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. PhD in single for life?

      Delete
    2. You think that's a smart comment?

      Delete
    3. There are only so many high caliber husbands to go around. So if you believe that your chances of obtaining one are slim, you probably should go the independent route.

      Delete
    4. When I said financial independence works better than a high caliber husband, it is because relationships don't always last. When it doesn't work, I just walk away. For a woman who is beautiful but financially dependent on her high caliber husband, she won't be able to leave as easily. I was married to a high caliber man and have been dating high caliber men since the divorce. Maybe that is because men in my area are more interested in financially independent women.

      Delete
  23. Im a second generation British Indian girl and I can say for sure that skin colour is unfortunately of great importance for an Indian/Pakistani guy when selecting a partner.If the marriage is set up by his family then its even more of a factor.Being darker skinned is sadly often seen as an ugly trait and Im certain much of this is down to families wanting lighter skinned grandchildren.

    Im not an advocate of skin lightening creams but I know many girls who use them and can understand why.If a girl is plain but fair skinned then that in itself is enough to make her "attractive".I hope you cover this in your post.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Andrew have you posted the statistics of who reads your blog, somewhere (I.e. From what countries and educational backgrounds) seriously this comment thread is near despressing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why do you say that?

      Delete
    2. I haven't received a survey, have you? Outside of conducting a survey, I don't see how this information could be tracked.

      I am also curious about why you think the comment thread is depressing.

      Delete
    3. Readership by nationality. There is no way to track race or educational background.

      1. United States
      2. United Kingdom
      3. Canada
      4. Australia
      5. Germany
      6. India
      7. Ireland
      8. Singapore
      9. France
      10. Bulgaria

      Delete
    4. You could track those things with a questionnaire

      Delete
  25. Kirstie looks atrocious in that photo!

    ReplyDelete
  26. I don't think anyone really cares what some privileged white guy thinks about race tbh except other privileged white people.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Oh, it's the "Nature vs. Nurture" argument, then? Genetics is something and mothers can influence their daughter's behavior, but the choices two different people make can have a significant influence on their outward appearance and demeanor and how those genetics manifest themselves. Did the young woman have the same habits as her mother? is she compliant or defiant to her mother's demands? Really, Andrew, expand your critical thinking skills.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This article tries to make your point but in my opinion fails terribly.

      In any case, you are missing the point, which is that men judge your mother whether it is right or wrong to do so - not that it is justified scientifically.

      I happen to think it is worth taking into consideration, but I'm open to being proved wrong.

      Delete
    2. Well in my case I feel like it wouldn't make sense to judge me on how my mother looks because first of all ( this may sound strange) I am not even the same ethnicity as she is. She in mostly English/Irish whereas I am half that and half Hispanic. My coloring is not the same and my whole bone structure is entirely different. I'm built like the women in my father's family ( small framed etc.) where as my mom is literally big boned. Also, she had me when she was forty so she is probably older than a lot of other mothers that a guy could be comparing her to.

      Delete
    3. You're not doing women a service, Andrew, by teaching them how to attract a sea of daft, low-quality men, who can't intellectually consider the varied outcomes of unique life choices. Since women want men who are smart and funny, you are setting lots of future couples up for endless disappointment.

      Leave dumb, shallow men, for dumb, shallow women and get to teaching how "diamonds in the rough" can find each other. A man doesn't have to be rich or academically accomplished to get a fantastic girl, he just has to be a thinker and a feeler.

      Delete
    4. ...one addition: You don't have to be a smart and funny man to gain a fantastic girl, as long s you're, alternatively, incredibly kind and sweet. If you're physically gorgeous, but none of the above, you'll be stuck with spray-tan tackies, who will probably end-up going with other people, when you aren't looking.

      Delete
  28. My father would second your opinion: he has mentioned on several occasions that when he was younger, the way a girl's mother looked was what he believed a projection into the girl's future attractiveness, and that it was turn-off when a cute girl's mother was fat/unattractive.

    ...And then of course he would proudly look at my mom and tell me my outlook is good.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Andrew I just wanted to say thank you for keeping your blog honest and blunt. To me I think a significant others' parents count for a small part of the whole picture (with 30% being morals and values, 30% being physical attractiveness, 20% being personality and hobbies, etc), but it may be a tie-breaker for someone else who is already on the fence. It's really painful to hear some things that you say (since I'm 28 and female and not white), but I really really appreciate you telling your perspective.


    Also, people should realize that you are just a voice from a certain type of males in their late 20s, and that you don't represent all males from all ages and all races, etc. There are some people who are offended but I think your honesty is what defines your blog and makes it stand out from the other dating blogs out there. So stay that way!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. To clarify, what I mean is you give me the opportunity to become aware of something, weigh it out in my mind, try it out in real life, and fine-tune my dating strategies. If some others are offended by it, I guess they don't have to read it.

      Looking forward to future posts!


      Lucy

      Delete
  30. FYI your picture -- Kirstie Alley's daughter is adopted.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ha! Really? That is funny... though it still illustrates the point well I think. You wouldn't believe how difficult it was to find a picture for this post. No one takes or looks at photos of ugly people unless they are famous.

      Delete
  31. Reminds me of the time I met my ex's family a few years ago. It was her birthday and we met them at a restaurant. Didn't notice anything odd at first, but when we got up to leave I noticed her mom had an enormous ass. She was normal sized up top, but ass made it look like she was wearing a giant pumpkin on her hips.

    My ex had a nice ass with a little extra to it and I suddenly knew why.

    ReplyDelete
  32. This is interesting.
    So how would you feel if you were dating Eva Longoria and then met her mother?
    http://www.blogvedete.com/wp-content/gallery/actrite-cantarete-celebre-si-mamele-lor-1/eva-longoria-mom-mama-mother.jpg

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I would be worried. Especially because it is typical for Latin women to end up like that.

      Delete
    2. Totally agree with you Andrew. But there's another side of the coin. If your wife ages too well and you don't age well, then she might leave you for an upgrade.

      The thing I've learned about relationships is that the power dynamic usually doesn't stay the same. Suppose when you marry the girl, you are both 8's. But throughout the year, she may age badly, or you may lose your job and struggle to get back on your feet. Basically you don't necessarily remain 8's throughout life. The two of you may not even remain the same number throughout life at the same time, whatever that number is. So that's why I think ranking people doesn't work so well if you are wanting a healthy marriage (which may not be the focus of your readership, I admit). In the case the husband becomes unemployed for a long time but is trying his best to get back on his feet, he better hope that the woman he married is understanding and loves him enough to stick with him even though his value has dropped (temporarily or not).

      Delete
    3. Of course. As I explained in the post about the ten point scale, it is used mostly to quantify initial impressions.

      Delete
  33. That sucks. I always had a sneaking suspicion that men put a fair amount of weight on that, and with my current bf (been together 2 1/2 years, he met her after 7/8 months), I actually said something similar to what you suggested b4 reading this (mainly because he made a comment while we were drinking once about how it seems like so many women get big after pregnancy and won't work out to get healthy again.) She is bigger, but her skin hasn't aged at all. Her face looks almost identical to the way it looked when I was born, so she would be stunning and super healthy if she would just lose all the excess weight, and her personality is usually awesome to back it up as well. And my bf thought my father was my brother when he met him, so he says he's not worried about me aging badly at all. He jokes that he's more worried that he will look old enough to be my father 20+ years down the road. My father's side is blessed with the same skin, but none of them are big. Even my paternal grandmother was tiny after 4 kids. I look more like them and care a lot more about my health, so I don't ever see myself blowing up anyway.

    I wasn't sure how much this factors in to a guy's decision to be with a girl long-term, but I'm glad I had the right idea when I broached the topic of my mother's weight to him. Great blog btway :-].

    ReplyDelete
  34. it's true, we do that.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Reading this one post, the first thing that came to my mind is "you are a pretentious, superficial, narcissistic, asshole". Thats all. Im glad that when I meet men I dont stop to think about how his balls will sag with time, how h ewould look with a turkey neck, is his belly will become a pot belly, if his butt will flatten and how he would look with saggy arms and wrinkles plus hunched over.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Liz, an adjective I don't see in your post is "wrong". Because he's not wrong. And what YOU do is irrelevant, YOU are not a man.

      Delete
  36. You really cracked me up with this one...I am the first to admit my mom has let herself go. Thank God I take after my father who has remained thin even at the age of 57, unfortunately he has not aged well. Plus I'm a Latina..this is to reference your comment from Jan 13, 2013... So in all 3 scenarios I am screwed!!!
    Yet above my mothers weight issue and my fathers bad aging, I have yet to meet 2 human beings with such genuine sincere love for one another.
    As for myself I HATE the gym truly detest it makes me feel like a lab rat!!! Yet I am health conscious, I make it my task to eat in moderation, jog, hike, and run (ALL outdoors). Oh as a side note I am 5"7' 120lbs and 27 people I know say I don't look a day past 23...whatever that means??
    Overall I hate to admit, you make a good point... Just proves how ignorant we can be when in search of the "one".

    ReplyDelete
  37. You are right. It is cruel and calculating. Extremely dishonorable.

    "Ugh, I wish my mom would lose some weight... I am sure it is partially my father's fault - he is such a pushover. She doesn't respect him, so I think she feels no need to be beautiful for him anymore. I wish my dad would man up. The thing is, if she gets hotter, he might man up - it goes both ways."

    OMG.... Only a low life woman would talk about her parents like that! That's one ugly personality.

    "Ugh, I wish my mom would lose some weight... Ever since she had that operation it's been a problem. It sucks, and I can't imagine what it's like to struggle with fitness like that. I am at least relieved that [her illness] skips generations."

    Again why would ANY man want to be with a woman who talks about her mother like that! This is disgusting!

    There are plenty of ways to communicate that you are worried about your mother's well being without coming across like a complete bitch. In this case the woman saying this is putting her mother down to build herself up. How self centered can she be to make her mother's illness be about her? If your mother got cancer would you go around telling people that you are relieved that you didn't get it?

    Suggesting that women should manipulate their mothers looks to attract men is going TOO FAR! Any woman who feels that they need to do this is a sad piece of shit.

    FYI I'm happy that you posted this to show how some men think. I really do. I'm a fan of your political incorrectness. It helps me realize where my limits are at when it comes to attracting men.

    ReplyDelete
  38. You're entitled to your opinion, but I know a lot of real men who don't think like you do, and to "navigate the situation so that it affects me as mildly as possible", I'll just make sure I don't bring home an asshole like you.

    ReplyDelete