Sunday, October 2, 2011

The Upper Hand In Relationships

In a previous post, I made the point that before getting married, women usually get to have sex and relationships with guys that are "out of their league." This is due to the fact that men are more motivated by sexual desire and therefore lower their standards, at least until they decide to settle down.

Men have to work to improve the quality of the woman they can attract, while women need to work to maintain the quality of the man they can attract. Men are constantly trying to attract the best of the opposite sex, while women are constantly trying to stay with the best of the opposite sex. For a man, this means improving his character and appearance so that he is as attractive as possible to the women that wouldn't consider him otherwise. For women, this means improving her appearance and character so that she is as attractive as possible to the men who already want to sleep with her, but as of yet do not consider her for a relationship or marriage.

So while women usually date men that are better than the one they will end up with, men usually date women that are not as good as the one they will end up with. By "good" and "better" I am referring to the overall value of the person, which is a combination of many factors (good looks, personality, physical strength, fame, money, humor, intelligence, etc.). This rule is not absolute and is manifested in various degrees, but on the whole it is true. And more to the point here, it is the reason why women often feel that men have "the upper hand" in relationships. That feeling doesn't exist because men are dominant over women or have some kind of real advantage; it is just because men are strongly motivated by sex, and therefore get into relationships with girls they don't really care about - or at least, they get into relationships with girls who care more about them than they do about the girls, even if only by a small amount. In other words, men only have the upper hand because they have this tendency to play below their league.

"The upper hand" is usually touted as an advantage that men have over women, and in one sense this is accurate. Because men care less, they can afford to be more cavalier, knowing that the girl is more invested in the relationship and therefore more willing to tolerate behavior from him that she dislikes. But while the advantage is real in this respect, there are two important things women should know about it.

1. The man's "advantage" is one over which a woman has direct control. By not initiating, or giving it up easily, a woman can filter out the men that just want sex, and avoid investing too much emotional energy in dead-end relationships. This energy can instead be spent improving herself, and therefore her "league" or dating options. In fact, by the very act of acknowledging her own (current) limitations and not wishfully giving in to a man just because he is hot or rich or famous, a girl instantly and significantly increases her attractiveness. I've met a number of girls that I can tell would like to date me, but are also smart and confident enough to recognize and admit to themselves that I am not (currently) interested in dating them. These girls do not play into my attempts to have sex with them. I have a lot of respect for these girls, and respect matters when it comes time to choose a girl to get serious with.

2. The man's "advantage" isn't as great as it seems. A man's hyper-sexual mindset is not without its faults, but a couple of those faults are perhaps less obvious than the others. The first is that, while the desire for sex leads to the upper hand in relationships, and while the upper hand does bring with it a certain power, this power only exists because the man is playing below his league. A decent analogy is an 17-year-old acing the 5th grade. Sure, he gets straight A's and can dominate the little 10-year-olds in gym class, but his successes are hollow because he always knows he should be in the 12th grade. His victories serve more as a reminder that he is not reaching his potential than as a reflection of his true abilities. In other words, the upper hand - the man's supposed advantage - is necessarily accompanied by a state of perpetual dissatisfaction and a reminder of his underachievement in what is (for most men) the most important arena of his life. You can be sure he is both aware and unhappy about this, just as much as the woman is aware and unhappy of the fact that she has "the lower hand." It is a bad situation for both parties. The second negative aspect of the phenomenon is that getting a girl in your own league is a hell of a lot harder for a guy than you would think, because all of the girls in his league are busy fucking the men in the league above them, or yielding the upper hand in relationships to them.

As I said at the beginning, these are generalizations. There are obviously instances of women having the upper hand in relationships, and in these cases, since the roles are reversed, so are the effects. And as I also mentioned at the start, the phenomenon occurs in various degrees. In these cases, the effects described above occur in proportion to the discrepancy between the value or "league" of the man and woman.

(SWFJREPS9YNK)

61 comments:

  1. Great post. Surprising that no one has commented so far. I was baffled by "SWFJREPS9YNK". What is this? More to the substance of the post: it occurred to me that probably the best catch for a guy is a girl who is out of his league but not aware of it? Or would a girl be still dismissed on the grounds of not knowing her true value? And/or would this signal to the guy that maybe his league is higher than he previously thought? It'd be interesting to hear your thoughts about this. Thanks!

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  2. SWFJREPS9YNK was a piece of text that I had to insert into a post somewhere so that I could register the blog (it searches through the text of every post and will not complete the registration unless it finds it, which proves the blog is mine).

    "More to the substance of the post: it occurred to me that probably the best catch for a guy is a girl who is out of his league but not aware of it?"

    Agreed, definitely. And the answers to your other two questions (you might have guessed) are no and yes, probably (though he'd be wrong).

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  3. How does a man deem himself to be above someone's "league" and therefore claim the upperhand..also how can one determine their own league?

    :)

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  4. "it occurred to me that probably the best catch for a guy is a girl who is out of his league but not aware of it"

    I thought when reading this that I know so many exceptions, and this is one of them. OR a girl dating a guy and thinking that he's higher value than he actuall is. My best friend was one of those girls who found a man attractive if he was hard to get even if that was his ONLY "asset" (not attractive, ambitious, funny, clever, sexy or anything else). Over time she realized what a loser he actually was, and will probably end up with a guy far higher quality than the men she's dated so far. I see this in other girls as well.
    Men who manage to temporarily fake their value with unknowing girls probably won't score a better woman for marriage than they did for dating.

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    1. Nailed it. I'm loving the smart input from the ladies.

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  5. Andrew - when you say "I have a lot of respect for these girls, and respect matters when it comes time to choose a girl to get serious with."...are you saying that at one point in the future when you are looking for something serious, you will consider these girls? i.e. a girl who you like now but only want to sleep with won't sleep with you, thereby you would consider her down the road when you are looking for more? I'm confused!

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    1. No, I am just saying that I recognize that this quality is something I want in the woman I end up with, and that seeing it in these girls helped me realize that.

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    2. haha.. so " do not hold your breath" while sticking with your high principles in life ;-) Girl simply can be proud of herself by not giving in to lower demands by such guys. So, for this Girl, who is still out of league for this particular guy, the little advantage would be to have her high self-expectation met by rejecting him, not getting him to marry her in the future. However, I am getting interesting results lately myself with the guys who are below or higher then my league (and believe me, it turned to be I have no clue how high I can go now, what is my league ;-)) For the guy who is below my league, or at least it was my initial opinion, do not know for sure, he was instantly made a remark that I held my bar high by rejecting him. He is a good guy, I think, and I am interested now to get to know him more.

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  6. "women usually get to have sex and relationships with guys that are "out of their league."

    Sex - yes. Relationships, not to so much. I rarely see girls in monogamous relationships with guys who are out of their league. Men in their twenties with a lot of options can sleep around if they want, so there is no real reason to get into a relationship for the sake of the sex. Sure the sex would be 'on tap', you wouldn't need to go down to a bar, but most guys I know won't give up variety and the thrill of the chase for that. Only if the girl is seriously hot, in which case - she's not below his league. Other men would feel the same way about her.

    Most attractive guys I know who's now engaged or married, are with women who are FAR better than their one night stands but on the same level as the women they dated seriously.
    Of course men have relationships they think might end up in commitment, which doesn't.

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    1. Agreed that it happens less (maybe much less) with relationships.

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  7. Read many posts before. Never responded until this one. You made amazing sense.

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  8. A guy used to chase me once for a while but I really didn't think much of him so I didn't take him seriously. I realized later after knowing him a bit more is that the type of person that he is (personality. character, intelligence. Humor. Strength, passion) is who I want to be with long-term. Now, since you said men like to date below their league (he was pretty smitten by me) so him chasing after me and me ignoring him i felt i was above his league but now that I want him for a serious relationship, he just dumped me...so does that mean I'm now below his league?

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    1. That's an easy one - since you were ignoring him, you hurt his feelings and bruised his ego. So he realized you weren't relationship material (nobody dates someone who makes them feel bad).

      But he was able to sleep with you (presumably), and now he dumps you in an attempt to reclaim his power that was taken from him. Was this a "friend zone" situation?

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    2. I'm not the Anonymous poster who you replied too, but I have been in her exact situation.

      He chased me. He told me I didn't show enough interest. He dumped me. I never slept with him.

      Moving on because I was too distant overall? But I don't think that now puts me below his league. Correct?

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    3. OMG, this same thing happened to me. He pursued me... we dated for like 4 months and then he just dumped me. I thought we definitely clicked- we are both attractive, intelligent, hard workers, etc. in our 30s.

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    4. Easy. When you're not that interested in a guy he will continue to chase you in the beginning. Then when he 'got you' you probably started to initiate things (ie doing his job) then the dynamics change and he decided you were not worth being with anymore. Men don't like women to pursue them - they like the thrill of the chase. However if at the beginning he is showing interest and you are continually ignoring him/making it impossible, you may have started to become disrespectful without knowing it and bruised his ego too much that he has to walk away. (28 y/o female)

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  9. At what point in any relationship should us girls stop playing "hard to get" in order to have the upper hand?

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    1. That is a great question. I'm surprised no one ever responded to it. I've never felt like that's an easy answer, or that there is one answer for each relationship.

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    2. Playing hard to get is a bullshit tactic. It's a tactic like that that makes the dating world a hurtful and confusing thing. If you like someone, don't play hard to get, actually tell them straight up that you like them. *sigh* This is why we can't have nice things.

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    3. As a gril... Having a fulfiiling busy life and not always being available is one thing. To purposefully say you are busy when you are not is a game. Sticking to your principles is another aspect of being 'hard to get'. Like the old saying "if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything". I felt the need to say I was busy when I wasn't to 'appear' hard to get, then would back down and do something when I said I wouldn't. People really pick up on that (not just men) and will take advantage of that. What I really found was that I needed to get a life, stand for something and when I mattered to myself, other people found that I mattered to them.

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  10. It's amazing how well you broke the topic down. You are amazing, Andrew. Keep it up!

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  11. What is wrong with y'all? Men dating women "below their league"?!!! I am sorry, but it appears you have the roles reversed. Firstly, women always have the upperhand! They have the golden pussy...a commodity men will never be able to do without. How do I know this? I danced for years as a topless dancer (absolutely no contact, exclusive club) and took innordinate amounts of money from all types of men, all different "leagues". It is unfortunate that I am an expert on the relationship between men and women in it's rawest state! And you know what I learned? Drag it out with a man, make them believe that eventually they will get pussy, play up to their egos and they are putty in your hand! Young, old, fat, thin, gorgeous, ugly...they all reacted the same way. I knew my worth (trust me if I didn't they wouldn't have paid me as much as I demanded! Men do not easily part with thousands just to spend time with a dancer at a club, despite what people think)and they paid for it.

    This was business, but it still exposed the fact that men NEVER have the upperhand and if they do, it is only because a woman is stupid enough to allow it to happen. I am pretty, but the top earners were not necessarily very good looking... they just knew their worth, both in the club and outside. And just because some women don't realize this does not change the fact that women always have the upperhand.. these particular women are just complacent, unfortunate and have low self esteem. The women I know (not only dancers) can pretty much "get" whomever they want.. because they are valuable human beings who know their worth. It just happens that they chose to seek out other worthy individuals.

    And I am not sure what it is about you that makes you believe you are "above" certain women, but the fact that you would try to sleep with a woman that you consider having "the lower hand" (?!!) just proves that you are not good enough for them, by default. You are crazy if you think these women do not sleep with you because they realise you are out of their league! They don't sleep with you because they see you for what you are; cold hearted, pompous and arrogant! Sorry to burst your bubble, but men like you are a dime a dozen and any woman stupid enough to waste their time with a man that babbles such innanites deserves the shallow, meaningless experience she has in store for her!

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    1. Amen indeed! a fine reply to a grossly misogynistic post

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    2. I think that was true before. But these days, the golden pussy is easy to get. And if a guy lowers his standards (plays below his league), it's not even a challenge.

      It's quite amazing. I feel lucky to live in this age of plentiful poon, while at the same time mourn the loss of more traditional gender roles.

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    3. I agree with this post absolutely! The reason this guy can talk about the man/woman dynamic in terms of "league," is because too many women are desparate and needy and are too willing to play "pick me!" with any arrogant asshole just because he is "hot" and "successful." When women start to rememember that guys like pussy so much that they will actually work for it and treat you the way you expect to be treated in order to get it, NO guy will be able to consider himself such a hot commodity and even the biggest alpha will have to get over himself and actually treat all women with the common courtesy we ALL should expect because it's what we deserve!!!! As an attractive (but not a '10'), educated, kind, generous, good-humoured, independent woman who doesn't put out to any guy just because I neeeeed him to like me so bad, I consider MYSELF high-league and will not accept less than being treated as such. I'm not interested as much in income, status or otherwise material success (although deadbeats need not apply), as I am in actually dating a guy who means what he says and says what he means, and says and means kind, considerate and respectful things. This would be a lot easier to come buy if not for all the women who reward douchy behaviour with attention and ego-strokes....I mostly hold women responsible for the commonalities in dating problems, as the above poster said, we got the pussy!!! If a guy has the means to acquire a house and expensive car or souped up truch, he can recognise the value that a woman places on herself that will be noticed by everyone around her when she BELIEVES it and shows it in taking care of herself, demonstrating the level of care she expects to be taken of her.

      I just wish ladies would QUIT settling and devaluing themselves...when this happens, guys will step up without even realising it.

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    4. I whole heartedly agree with 'Anon Dec 24' and 'Anon Feb 25'.

      Women will always have the upper hand in dating because when it comes to the first stage of attraction men are predominately driven by their sex drive so if they like what they see they'll do whatever it takes to sleep with it; and men have a very small filter of women they wouldn't sleep with. Whereas a woman has a larger filter because she's more rational in the first stage of attraction than the testosterone controlled man who just wants to spread his seed. The "self-confident and vulnerable" woman will filter out guys like you because she sees you as a waste of her precious biological time and yet you'd sleep with her if she asked you to but in doing that she'll lose the upper hand. The balance of power changes in different stages of a relationship but women are the gatekeepers to sex.

      You sound like a douchebag in this post!

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    5. When I found out that my date is rich, I got interested in him despite his age (10 years older then me, and I use to date younger or the same age,I managed to ask him for high amount of money when I found out that he lied to me about his marital status. I felt comfortable already with him at this point and was ready to sleep with him for $1200 per night (while rejecting all discounts, or per hour haha as I am not a prostitute). It was interesting experiment that I kept repeating with this guy. At our first encounter I "gently" rejected him by I honestly saig that I a was looking for an investor, rather then for a boyfriend. But, eventually, when I learn about him, money, accomplishments, I grew interested in him personally. I honestly found him attractive. But the truth is : I will not date the same guy for the sake of his good personality but having not accomplished or having unable to pay me. It is THE TRUTH in this situation. He treated me AMAZINGLY ROMANTIC AND OUR TIME TOGETHER WAS SO SO GOOD. However, all other times, when I wanted more of this kind of love/financial gain/ and not revenge but my protection through his money, he grew more reluctant to do so. He wanted to be recognized either as having an upper hand, or he wanted my attention/devotion for free, I rejected it. He called me (not sure if it true or not 50/50)"woman of his dreams", I agree and I have matched this description ;-). Well, it is just a side-note since I all men talk is mostly "fictional" haha . I have shown him that his wealth is not of value to me unless I actually have a piece of it. (true, cold, honest remark ;-)) I also have/show respect and passion toward him as an accomplished entrepreneur and person with a great sense of humor, and passion for music, art etc. (since I can not be his wife and choose not to be just his lover in exchange for his occasional "financial blessings" ;-) I have chosen to charge for every occasion we are together. It works so so well for me ;-)) I also being respectful, supportive, a friend to him, and overall behaving well, being honest and pleasant/ loving even at the same time. Well, he is ironic about me being "loving" for money. But I am emotional and longing for him. I just have a great emotional balance in this particular situation. We are close because of our cultural background and our mutual interests. But, in this relationships, so far, I have an upper hand by not giving in to his free sex demands. I do not call him. But when he does, I am being polite, cheerful, supportive of his excitements, his hopes and dreams, but not giving to his demands. Will see where this all leads me. However, I have been thinking about my situation a lot, it is new to me and it unexpectedly gives me an upper hand, money and at least episodically, as well as great relationships per paid night or our mutual outings . I also remember he was so intrigued by me and he could not resist and have admitted that he wanted to "own me". It was our first great night (for money). It happen often in relationships that after such "conquering" men looses his interest toward women. It did not happen here so far as he invested vast amount of money. May be money here, extracted smart, is an answer to protect woman's heart from heart ache and woman's dignity ;-) Thought provoking isn't it ;-) I would love to populate this opinion among woman. I feel very strongly that the scale must tip toward woman advantage finally. Both sexes will act/grow/ feel better with better quality of relationships. Would not it?! I wonder girls, guys, what is your opinion on all of this?

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    6. Bravo and huge thanks. I am trying so hard to help my poor, low self esteem girlfriends to understand or at least revisit this issue. I am adamant in my effort to improve relationships between men and women through establishing mutual respect, through allowing men and women to grow through relationships. But my effort is largely futile so far. I am looking for smart respondents like the dancer-girl. I actually simply agree that having a high self esteem, is analogous to having a guy who is assertive in getting the girl, despite of his inadequate qualities for the girl who is out of his league. It is attractive on it's own to have your high price in your head. I guess I might just be subconsciously practicing this now (and I am 50 and not a beauty queen) but am being recognized as such by my friends and suitors. I have never been blessed with that much enjoyable dating in my early, low self-esteem years ;-) I wish I knew better, but may be it must go at this time for me. I hope to find my soul mate through all these encounters. I'd rather maintain my naive wishful thinking for a good guy, versus being disappointed and giving in to a common beliefs that it is already over. The Hope is such a progressive force in life ;-)

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    7. Well said, "golden pussy"! I've been reading the posts by Andrew -- this particular post about not wanting to get serious with women below his league and whom he believes he has the "upper hand" over but yet he deigns to sleep with these very same women shows one thing -- he can't get enough of pussy!!

      Power to you, "golden pussy" Women always have the upper hand -- and it has very little to do with the type of pussy that misogynists like Andrew goes go!

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    8. Ya'll are so cute when you think you're spechul snowflakes ;)

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    9. you sound cold hearted as well. Call me naiive, but what happened to love and building something together? in the end, the idea that you are above or below someone is just that, and idea. It is not a fact, it is an illusion.

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  12. but if a girl gets herself in a situation where she no longer has the upper hand she can always tell him...Hey, I'm not gonna just sleep with you anymore!!! If you don't give me what I need...I have to move on. He will either step up or back off. You just need to be in a place where you can handle it.

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  13. i read this post about two weeks ago and have found myself applying this theory in my relationship every single day since... The "dating up & dating down" is so true i cant believe ive never realized that before.. So, i began wondering, why do men settle down with women who are less attractive than they are?

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    1. Because they are less likely to wander or divorce if they think they are with a guy they can't easily replace. And they tend to be much lower maintenance and much more devoted to the man. Men often dislike and/or fear hypergamy.

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  14. Maybe I'm just one of the exceptions, but I have been on-and-off with the same guy for two years now. He and I are both, by all accounts, attractive. However, people have been telling me constantly that I "could do better than him" (and not just when we were broken up and I was sad, either) and that other guys that show interest in me are just as good if not better than him.

    Yet, he definitely has always had the "upper hand" in our relationship. He has been the one to come back for more each time, and he hasn't dated anyone in the meantime. He has always said that he just doesn't want to date anyone in his early twenties, period. I guess maybe he's just that selfish? He's moving hours away for his first job out of college and so we called it quits again.

    I honestly do not think he can do /better/ than me, at least not physically. Just as good, maybe, but not better. I would buy that it's him using me to stroke his own ego or for good, easy sex, but not because he thinks I'm beneath him.

    At any rate, I don't know what the fuck any of you mean when you say that guys tend to end up with better women than they've slept with an vice versa. I stepped back for a moment and thought about all the relationships of people I know, and very few of them fit this stereotype. I know hot guys with annoying, fat girls (but not many), lots of pretty girls with guys that revolt me, and several couples wherein both of the people are attractive and a TON where neither look that good to me. So here is another important point: "attractiveness" and what "league" you're in is all SUBJECTIVE. A guy that my friend thinks is hot and successful might seem like a loser to me, and a guy that I think is the shit would probably be a lowlife to a celebrity. See what I'm getting at here? As far as I can tell leagues are nothing but a reflection on how you feel about yourself and your partner. What if both parties think that they're the one in the higher league, or lower? Who is really to decide?

    Also note the fact that no matter what "league" someone's spouse is in, they almost always get tired of each other after a few years anyway. Furthermore, what about people who actually cheat on their spouses with less attractive people? Halle Berry has been cheated on twice, mind you. Finally, I have heard before that it isn't really love that determines who you marry so much as timing. Maybe you loved a girl when you were 19, really truly loved her, but things didn't work out. But now that you're 30, you're ready to settle down and have kids. What are you going to do, spend the next few years chasing down that girl or finding someone you feel the same about, or marry the nice girl that you have now that you know loves you and wants a family?

    TL;DR: love is not a science. Sure, maybe certain patterns come up, but ultimately there are too many variables for any one "theory" to work.

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    1. Good reply.

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    2. I was not attracted to this guy at all, I said I wasn't interested for a long time. I finally gave in when he text that I just wanted eye candy not a nice guy. I gave in but knew deep in my heart this guy was a player and hit on my friend while we were all drunk. I was super mean to him, which his friends were all surprised that he sent me a text w his picture , saying ,u dont want me anymore ? I gave him another chance but I always said really mean.things to him trying to hurt the relationship,he's a drug dealer and drinks Hennessey all day.We were on and off again. He treated me special.compared.to other girls w sweet texts but I over text on purpuse, than call him names. He would punish me by ignoring me for a few months and finally he got sick of it.He started saying mean things,& I saw him a.few weeks ago.I've always spent the night. This time.after me saying no to going.over there we had sex.than he wanted a ride and me.to drive 25 min. back out later.I left.I started another fight. He told me.he had another girl and.was afraid she was gonna show up.I stopped texting for two weeks and than saw him on Otis Offender search w his picture which meeans prison time and image date was our birthday,last yr.I was writing him in jail on OUR birthday .May 29.If I had stayed sweet,there hood thing is as long as I'm his main bi%ch, & it's not rubbed in my face, it's ok to cheat.And thats what he text me.about her.He than apologized fir saying mean things and.that's the last he answered,I kept telling him he was ugly in&out.I can't allow that&I loved the real him.I got to know when he waa in county for 4 months but I always did things to.sabatoge us. Do u think I was guarding my heart? I also told him he would.b in prison b4 his bday and I hoped he did.Should I write him? I dont even know what happened or where he is yet.I'm grieving, mad,relieved a little but I wanna know what he felt w us.He did text saying u got your wish I'm going to jail a few weeks ago&I said NO, I was just mad
      And.when my feelings are hurt I text bs.Darn text, I would've never said any of this to.his face.When he first got out last year(I met him Feb.before March when he left for 4 mo.last year)I told him that me&my ex were gonna try to get back together,he text a few days later, I'm out then.Then when I saw him next(my ex was still in prison)he said I was so cloae to having him till I said that.But he had a baby right after being released.He didnt even say she was pregnant,they had been together 8yrs.He told me when she had baby then said it was b4 I met u she got pregnant,she lives w his fam.We were trying to.get pregnant &laat I talked to him he sent me ANOTHER pic of a female w Ill tatted on her.(Ill Will his street name)But he wldnt let me get that tattoo,I think he had promiscuous girls doin that&he said oh ya she pregnant too.I told him Tom&I were back together,so we were both wrong.He askes me what do now that u gotta man&I gotta woman?What kinda answer did he want?I wasn't nice about it. Now he's probably gone for years.Do I write him outta curiosity? Apologize for my part? He had a secret life & is a sex addict.But he like other have said he saw something special in me&sweet.My last text to him on 27th was I guess there's no reason for us to talk cause we're just friends&we have a history.So confused .HELP.-M

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    3. M: Get to know YOU and forget all the guys you mentioned. And any guy who is in trouble will be trouble for you. Your life (as I read it here) is like looking at the surface of a puddle in the rain: there is so much hitting it that you can't see into it or even any reflection off of it clearly. So open your umbrella and let all that drama just roll off. Let the water become still. Then you will see more clearly what will be best for YOU.

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    4. Good reply. I enjoyed Andrews other threads, but I kept having to re-read his opening statements in this thread referring to "leagues". I personally believe that most men are out of the league of most self-respecting women. Mainly because of their antics and level of maturity. I would have been more accepting of Andrews theory, if it hadnt been presented as one-sided. It kind of makes Andrew seem like this is how he personally sees women as a whole. And if thats true thats a damb shame. Smdh.

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  15. I love how some of the women on here talk about the 'Power of the Pussy' and then basically reveal that they're prostitutes who fuck for cash. :)

    Personally the guy made some sense. Like it, dislike it, whatever. Still makes sense.

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  16. I've dated a quite a few men who were completely below my league. Some have even admitted it to my face. I like some of your other posts, but I don't think you have the proof to back this one up. I think it's very biased and completely comes from your own personal experiences.

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  17. I just finished reading "Anon. Feb. 25, 2013"

    Thank God! Someone has brains on this page. She was dead on. So much more than the guy who wrote this post. Also, her description of why women won't sleep with you (arrogant, etc.) is the truth.

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  18. I meant "Anon. Dec. 24th"

    You had great info. too "Feb. 25th" ;)

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  19. I was wondering if you could answer a question what do you do when you have been dating someone and he wants to take a break and than all of a sudden some girl calls saying to leave him alone, do you confront him or just walk away? We've only been dating two and a half months but now he has been avoiding me and I feel that I deserve an explanation even if its over can you help me with this? Also he has said, he did not give anyone my number and he would not do that should I believe him?

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    1. Maybe the chick who called you is a crazy bitch who thinks she's dating him, or used to date him but doesn't understand they're broke up. Or maybe she really is still dating him. Can you do a reverse lookup on the number and find out who it was?

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  20. Do guys ONLY have casual sex with girls below their league? Or do they also try and sleep with girls they think are on the same level (at least looks wise) as them?

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    1. I assume guys pursue casual sex with girls of same or higher attractiveness as well, depending on their confidence. Perhaps hit on some hot ones in the beginning of the evening, and aim a little lower if they have no success and it gets late...

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    2. They definitely try for girls better than their level, but many, many guys stoop far below their level just to get laid.

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    3. At Andrew, is level only determined by physical attractiveness for guys evaluating girls (face or body coming first?)?

      And how do you know if the guy thinks you are better than his level? If the guy that you are dating keeps trying to impress you, does that mean he thinks you are better than his level? As in, a guy telling you that 'he would have a six pack if...' when you see another guy with one? Or acting like he is on a diet when he is around you? And buying new clothes to see you, like blazer and fancy jeans?

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  21. Whew! After reading this post I was worried that the all guys who pursue me (who I find very attractive) only do so because they think I'm easy.

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  22. Why does this post remind me of the D.E.N.N.I.S. system?

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  23. That's funny mate... very much on the ball. I've just shaved my head simply as a defiant rejection of aesthetics. Of course... I now have less chance of attracting women in my league now, because I've intentionally sabotaged my own looks. Which means I'll now be busy chasing women who would have been busy chasing me had it not been for the fact that I look a damn sight worse now with a bald head than I ever did before. In fact, I'm so confused about all this now I'm not sure where I am or what my name is. Do I need to go for someone better looking, or less appealing than myself now??? :-)

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  24. I'm not sure about this. The last guy I dated didn't put much effort into dating me even though I have a master's from a top school, a solid career, good earning power, and looks. He did have looks and was a few years younger, but had no caeer, a bachelor's from a lousy school, and pretty much earned peanuts. Yet, I think he truly believed he was too good for me. I kind of think that this dating above or below "one's league" is a highly subjective concept and there are as many definitions of what constitutes as one's "league" as there are people dating on the planet.

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  25. Does a man or woman's level have to only with how they look/appearances? Or is "level" or "being in someone's league" also gauged through 'market value' (i.e. what they bring to the table in terms of character) as well?

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  26. I guess this is what Groucho Marx meant when he said he would not want to be in a club that would accept him as a member.

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  27. the first time I met my now-ex, my immediate thought was "I'm *way* out of his league, no wonder he used an old photo online... oh god, that's so cruel, give the guy a chance". He ripped my heart out with his lack of appreciation/taking me for granted, along with a lot of engineered confidence eroding over 3 on-gain-off-again(my call) years. I left him cold finally, he contacted me over a year later, apologized and asked to continue the "relationship". I turned him down, though it was excruciating. Simultaneously that moment, I learned I was not only out of his league physically as I had initially instinctively thought, but most especially in terms of character. Character really truly does seem to be the missing factor these days, in both genders.
    I wish I had come across this blog many years earlier, but I can only hope it's a case of "better late than never". Thank you for offering girls these insights, and encouragement to value and protect themselves. I will be making a point of showing this site to my niece when she turns 13.

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  28. Andrew is right. very insightful.
    there is subjectivity to this subject though.
    INTERESTING QUESTION: who is of a higher league in this arrangement - wealthy 60 y.o attractive lawyer, educated and financially established DATING a woman almost 20 yrs his junior, she is very attractive, educated and can have any man she wants ( his high status allows him to have any woman he wants as well).

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    1. They are approximately equal. Although I doubt they can actually have anyone they want; 60 year old men and 40 year old women aren't that high in-demand.

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  29. Interesting blog it always amazes me how different men and woman think

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  30. Wow the woman's mind is so much different than man's. It does pay to know how to treat them correctly

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