Bars Are a Bad Place to Meet Women

I've met the majority of the women I've dated in bars. There have been plenty of girls that I've met through friends or randomly in public, but in bars, the sheer density of attractive, young, single women is enormously greater than it is on the street or beach or office (or anywhere else); and my dating history reflects that. I've made the point previously that the higher concentration of the opposite sex in nightlife venues is a good thing, and I stand by what I said. But as I've gotten older and come to know myself better, I've recognized two serious disadvantages to meeting women in this way.

1. Randomness

The first thing I've realized is that I don't value the way that I meet women I meet in bars – that is, I don’t value the process itself. I was telling this recently to a girl that I know, and she suggested that it was because meeting girls in bars is "too random." I think this is the common supposition - namely, that because you don't have any history or connection with the people that you meet in bars, there is no foundation for a relationship, and so any attempt at one is doomed. But this isn't the problem. A strong foundation for a relationship is just as much a function of personal compatibility as it is a function of common history or connections. Meeting the opposite sex in a bar isn't unsuccessful for lack of foundation, and it isn't unsuccessful because it is random. It is unsuccessful precisely because it isn't random.

Randomness is actually what we all want, in the sense that we all want our "how we met" story to be unique and unexpected. The more random it is that you met someone to whom you find yourself deeply attracted, the more special it feels, because you know that you were incredibly lucky for it to happen. It's the same phenomenon that makes people appreciate life so much after a near-death experience. You value what you have because you know that you almost didn't have it. As absurd as most romantic comedies are, it says something about our ideals of romance that so many of them start with some permutation of a girl hitting a guy on a bike with her car - randomly - and then falling in love with him. Things are romantic at least partially because they are unexpected, that is, seemingly impossible or unreal. I probably don't need to explain to most women how un-romantic it is to receive flowers on Valentine's Day. It might be nice, and it might be better than never receiving flowers, but it isn't romantic because it is too predictable. It isn't random at all.

Being picked up in a bar also isn't random at all. In fact, it is exactly the opposite of random; it is boring because it is too mechanical, too planned. Guys know that they want to meet girls, they know where to find them, and they go there to do so. Girls know that they want to meet men, they know where they will be hit on, and they go there for that reason. The encounter might take place in an exciting, fast-paced and sexually-charged atmosphere, but that's just superficial ornamentation. Underneath, those meetings are absolutely bland, because they are absolutely intentional.

Yes, obviously, not everyone in a bar is there with the conscious intention of meeting the opposite sex, but the percentage of people who are is infinitely higher in nightlife environments than it is in, say, a shopping mall. And following the train of thought described above, we project that intention onto every person we meet in a nightlife environment, then down-rate the value of those encounters accordingly. I don't value the women I meet in bars because there is nothing special about the way we met.

2. Difficulty

The second thing I realized is that I don't value the effort I make to meet girls in bars. There isn't necessarily anything wrong with the girls themselves, but I don't respect my relationships with them because I didn't have to work very hard to make those relationships happen. Men are very keenly aware that things of low value are easy to obtain, and so we assume (and in most cases are right) that things that are easy to obtain are low in value. A man might have the best job in the world, but he'll never feel good about it as long as he knows that he only got it because his father pulled strings with his professional contacts to make it happen. The same mentality applies in dating.

It hasn't always been this way for me. In my early twenties, approaching a random girl in a bar and attracting her enough to get her phone number took balls and felt like a real accomplishment - because at the time, for me, it was. I was able to have genuine relationships with girls that I met in bars because I respected myself for meeting girls in bars. But I don't anymore, because it has become too easy, too boring. Without the challenges that my adolescent social anxiety used to pose, all I see in bars is a social scene hugely facilitated by dark lighting, loud music, commotion and alcohol. They’re still a great place to have fun and get laid, but they’re not the kind of place where I expect to find a relationship anymore.

Now, does this mean that bars are a bad place to meet guys, or that you should stop going out?

Not necessarily. Despite the fairly categorical nature of this post's title, what I am really saying here is that bars are a bad place for me to meet women at this point in my life. I am no relativist, but the reasons explained above don’t apply to every guy, and they don't apply in every situation. If you meet a guy tomorrow who is the way I was at 22, for whom it is a big deal to meet a girl in a bar, then this isn't going to be an issue at all. And even if the guy you meet in a bar is exactly like me in the sense that it isn't a challenge for him, there is still the possibility of something working out; it just means that you are getting off on the wrong foot. If there is a strong enough connection, "how you met" probably won't be enough to prevent or disrupt it.

There is also the chance that there will be some other coincidence that makes the encounter incredibly random, despite the environment – maybe you find out that you both come from the same town on the other side of the country, or that you have identical ancestry, or that you are both obsessed with the same nerdy sci-fi movie, even though you met in a nightclub. And as I explained in previous posts, you still have to consider the disadvantages posed by what I've explained above, along-side the low probability of getting off on the right foot somewhere less intentional, like a shopping mall or at work.

No, I am not saying that you shouldn't go to bars. I am saying that you should be cognizant of the fact that men – just like women – will not respect or value what comes too easily, whether it comes too easily because (a) it is too mechanical or (b) because it requires very little effort. The converse of this is that men will value their encounter with you in proportion to how (a) unlikely or (b) difficult it was. While this doesn't mean that you should lock yourself in a steel cage and only accept men who are willing to tear it down to get to you, it does mean that you should avoid situations in which every man has easy access to you.

Incidentally, this post could also have been written about online dating, or anything else that dramatically facilitates meeting the opposite sex. You might think of bars and online dating as completely different – even opposites – but they share the strong similarity of taking the difficulty out of approaching (and therefore, being approached by) the opposite sex. Even though it seems like an ideal situation on the surface, the reality is that, for many men and women, bars and online dating are shortcuts. And no one wants to know that they got something important to them by taking a shortcut. Even if online dating or going to bars isn't a shortcut for you, be aware that it might be a shortcut for the guy, and that he is liable to respect himself and the relationship less because of it.


Related Posts
1. Bars Are a Good Place to Meet Guys – Part 1
2. How "Hard to Get" Should You Play?
3. Don’t Initiate Contact
4. Why You Don’t Get Approached by Men

How "Hard to Get" Should You Play?

Every woman has been advised at one time or another that she can increase her attractiveness to a man by showing him less interest, that is, by playing "hard to get." Most people don't disagree with this advice, at least not completely; they understand that there is a psychological mechanism by which people tend to want what they can't have. But there is plenty of disagreement about the degree to which this tactic should be applied. A lot of girls obsess over how to strike a balance between "too easy" and "too hard to get." They analyze text messages, scrutinize their response times, stress out about when is the right time to sleep with a guy, or wonder if they will lose their chance with a guy off by not making a move themselves.

The reality is that there isn't any strict rule about how "hard to get" you need to play. Or rather, it varies for each girl and in each situation. Some girls need to apply it more than others. There are girls that immediately cling to any interested guy that meets their minimum requirements, and these girls could benefit quite a bit by showing some self-restraint. On the other end of the spectrum, there are girls with colder dispositions that would dissuade even the most persistent men by playing any harder-to-get than they already do. How hard-to-get you should play also depends on the guy in each situation. More persistent men will push through a higher amount of resistance, while those with a lot of options or lower degree of interest in a girl will be more easily deterred. You could drive yourself crazy trying to figure out where exactly along each spectrum you and he lie, and how to calibrate your behavior accordingly.

The good news, and the main point I want to make here, is that you really shouldn't over-think this. If a guy is interested in you, there is a wide margin between the behaviors that will make him think of you as "needy" and "uninterested." It will be incredibly difficult to change his interest in you by small things like agreeing too readily to a date, or being too enthusiastic in your texts. As long as you are agreeing to go out with him and not acting bored when you spend time together, you are showing more than enough interest to avoid discouraging the average guy. And as long as you aren't asking him out all the time, or initiating contact with him regularly, you aren't going to appear needy enough to turn him off.

Now, if a guy isn't that interested in you, the thresholds for "needy" and "uninterested" will be closer together, and smaller "mistakes" might cause him to change his mind about you. The girls that obsess over their behavior or the content of their text messages are usually dealing with a guy like this. In fact, his nonchalance about the relationship is usually what drives this hyper-awareness in the first place. The mistake these girls make is to think that their behavior that is responsible for the guy's decision to stop seeing them. While this is true in the limited sense that their behavior triggers the guy's decision, the reality is that his lack of interest was making it next to impossible not to trigger that decision.

Think about it this way: if a guy can be turned off just because you use the wrong adjective in a text, or sleep with him a couple dates too late or soon, or do some other small thing "wrong," then there isn't enough attraction there to sustain a relationship anyway. It was a losing battle from the outset. If the guy doesn't like you enough that you can behave naturally, then he doesn't like you enough for a relationship to last. There is no way you can perpetually guard every word and action around him, or control every emotional impulse forever; at some point you need to be able to relax and be yourself, and he needs to like what he sees when you do so. If you are in a situation where you are stressing out about what to do or say around a guy, your problem isn't your inability to know how to act, or your inability to calibrate your behavior, it is your inability to be comfortable with rejection.

This phenomenon can be illustrated with a simple plot, as shown below. The whole point is that it isn't worth spending your time in a dating situation that falls to the left of the dotted line. If you do, there won't be enough leeway between "needy" and "uninterested" behavior to allow you to be yourself in the relationship. In order to avoid the (red or blue) "no date" zones, you'll have to be constantly guarding your behavior in the same obsessed way that you are right now, as you attempt to get into or hold on to the relationship that is causing you so much stress. Where exactly the dotted line falls is something you need to decide for yourself; but you need to recognize that a limit exists. Until you do, you are going to give yourself a lot of grey hairs - and have nothing to show for it in the end.

Incidentally, guys make the same mistake all the time in their attempt to attract girls. It is particularly evident when you watch guys trying to figure out how to approach and pick girls up. If you could see how obsessively men try to figure out the right thing to say to a girl, or the best way (or time) to approach her, you would know exactly what I mean.* Men are constantly over-analyzing these things. What many men don't realize, is that if they need to force their behavior into a tiny, perfect mold in order to attract a girl, then they aren't going to be able to hold onto her for very long. The act can't be maintained forever; eventually they will need to relax and behave naturally, at which point the tailored personality that attracted her will disappear, and so will she.

In light of all of this, the goal - for men and women - should be to work at self-improvement slowly and steadily - in the long-term, but to relax and be themselves with the opposite sex in the moment. So if you are finding yourself constantly calculating your next "move" in a relationship, or watching your words too much, recognize that you are probably fighting a losing battle. Take a deep breath, relax, and focus instead on making yourself vulnerable to the possibility of rejection. Remember, sometimes it is a good thing.

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* In fact, you can see this if you just do a Google search for "pick up artist" or "approach anxiety" and read the uncountable number of websites, blogs and books that have been written in an effort to perfect these things. In fact, I am convinced that men freak out about this stuff way more than women do. Perhaps this is because the pressure is on us to make the first move, but the obsession is still there.


Related Posts
1. Self-Improvement Takes Time
2. On Being a "Typical" Girl
3. Get Used to Rejection
4. Living Vulnerably
5. Don't Initiate Contact

Making Him Jealous Doesn't Work

I've remained friends with some girls that I've slept with - partially because I like them and partially because they aren't smart enough or motivated enough to cut me off. On a number of occasions these girls have attempted to use me to make the new guy that they like jealous. Normally this involves them taking pictures with me (in which they get abnormally close so that the dude thinks I like her) and then posting them on Facebook. It has also involved them asking me to show up with them where they know the guy that they like will be, or else flirting with me in in front of him when we are out. Besides being somewhat pathetic, this strategy is also ineffective.

If I see a girl flirting with another guy, I will respond in one of three ways, depending on how interested in her I am:

1. If I am really interested in her, I will either be disappointed and give up, or ignore what I saw and give it my best shot with her later on (depending on how convinced I am that I can trump the guy she is flirting with).
2. If I am kind of interested in her, but not completely, I won't care.
3. If I am not interested in her, I won't notice.

A lot of women get insanely jealous when a guy they like is showing interest in another girl. This partially explains why they think it will work on men. However, even men get somewhat jealous when a girl that they like is giving attention to another guy - so it isn't purely a female phenomenon. Here is the thing: if you are in a situation in which you feel the need to make a guy like you more - that is, a situation in which he isn't showing as much interest as you'd like, or he is out of your league - then there is zero chance that he will respond to your attempts at making him jealous. The jealousy you feel when he shows interest to other girls is facilitated by your desire for him; it cannot exist (and much less, be created) in a situation in which you like him more than he likes you.

Don't Initiate Contact

I wrote a similar post about not initiating contact after a guy breaks up with you. This is somewhat related, but deals instead with the beginning of a relationship. The underlying principles, however, are the same...

Women are forever trying to figure out a man's intentions by reading between the lines of texts, interpreting things he said, or things he didn't. This is usually too difficult to warrant the effort it takes, but it is entirely the wrong approach for another reason: there are all kinds of men that are willing and able to lie their way into a woman's pants - yes, even yours. If you find yourself having difficulty determining a man's level of interest because "first he said X, but then he said Y," or even if you know exactly what he is saying and are sure he is interested, stop yourself. What a man says is the worst possible indicator of his interest: you need to pay attention to what he does.

This is why it is so important for a woman to allow a man to initiate contact after an initial meeting, and even well into the relationship. I've heard a number of girls actually complain about this, apparently preferring a situation in which they wouldn't be stigmatized for chasing men, or even for taking the initiative in "small things" like the first phone call or date. (These complaints always come from women who don't get enough attention from men. If you fall into this category, I suggest you read the other posts.)

If men didn't try to sleep with lots of women with no strings attached, or if women didn't want stable relationships, then it is conceivable that women could approach men. But given the undeniable preferences of the two sexes, the situation couldn't be other than what it is. Women, who, on the whole, are more interested in stable relationships, necessarily assume a defensive position against men, who (again, on the whole) are more interested in casual sex than women.

A woman's "game" can be broken down into the following three parts:

1. Making herself as attractive as possible
2. Making herself approachable
3. Filtering out the men that just want to have sex with her from the men that want to date her

While there is a lot to learn about the first part of female game (optimizing attractiveness), there is just as much to learn about the latter part (filtering). Filtering is necessary because the men that a woman wants to date are a subset of the men that want to have sex with her, and by making herself more attractive to potential boyfriends she also is making herself more attractive to all men. Because I needed to practice my skills in PowerPoint, I've illustrated this with a Venn diagram:

As most girls probably know, it can be difficult to determine which men fall into which category. And as I mentioned at the beginning of this post, if you are only paying attention to what a man says, it can be impossible. A girl interested in saving her time and emotional energy needs to be as adept as possible at discerning these these types of men. And this is why it is so important for a woman not to initiate contact with a man. When you initiate contact with a man before you know his intentions, you are denying yourself the least equivocal and therefore most important indication of his interest. I will go as far as to say that you are denying yourself the only reliable indication of his interest.

A man might make eye contact with you from across the bar, but unless he overcomes his fear or leaves his buddies in order to approach you, he isn't into you enough. Don't approach him. A man might say he wants to see you, but unless he calls to set up a date, he doesn't care enough. Don't call or text him. A man might tell you to come and visit him, but if he cares enough, he will come to you if you suggest it.

I could give all kinds of examples, but you get the point. By making it easy for a man, you risk wasting your time and energy on someone who is only interested in having sex with you, or maybe worse, someone who will actually agree to a relationship or even marriage, only to change his mind months or years later when he realizes he wants someone he considers better. Taking the initiative is not a right that men have over women; it is (or should be) a hurdle that women place in front of men to make them prove their interest.

Disclaimer: A man will jump over a lot of hurdles to sleep with a woman that is hotter than himself, or at least, hotter than the other girls he's slept with. The more attractive you are relative to him, the more cautious you need to be. This is complicated by the fact that it is perfectly possible for a man that is less attractive than a girl to be sexually attracted to her and interested in her as a person (i.e. not overwhelmed by her beauty so much that he doesn't consider her personality). There is a danger of losing a guy like this by putting up too many hurdles and discouraging him. My suggestion: don't play below your league.

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If you liked this post, you'll definitely like my book, Beyond the Breakup, which explains everything you need to know about dealing with you ex: what he's thinking, what is motivating him to stay friends with you, how to maximize your chances of getting him back - and if that doesn't happen, how to focus on your future.


Related Posts
1. Cut Him Off
2. Don't Try to Be One of The Guys
3. You Are Responsible for Your Own Romantic Happiness 

Why Women Don't Know What Men Want

As human beings, we always try to project our own perceptions on those around us. We call the person driving in front of us an asshole because they are going too slowly when we are in a hurry, even though they are 10 mph over the speed limit. On another day we call the person who speeds past us an asshole because they are not content with driving the speed limit, though we are just out for a casual drive. We get pissed off because we honestly believe in that moment that the other driver is being unreasonable, which is perfectly true if they are going slowly when everyone is in as hurry, or if they are speeding when there is no need; but in neither instance does that accurately reflect the situation.

The tendency manifests itself elsewhere as well:

• We rush through explanations of ideas that we find easy to understand even if our audience is completely ignorant of them (a group of trainees at work, for example).
• We are dumbfounded by the way foreigners act, even though their actions are shocking only when considered in light of our beliefs - in light of theirs they make perfect sense.
• We find a book fascinating and recommend it to others, fully expecting them to think the same, but not realizing it was only interesting to us because of our unique experiences.
• We are less confident when we go out looking like shit because we assume everyone else thinks so too.

The list is endless.

We do this because it is efficient, even if at times it is inaccurate. We probably could afford to consider the culture of a foreign country before gasping in disbelief at the actions of their citizens; however, it is less likely that before we walk out the door for the evening we will have time to consider the variety of opinions everyone who lays eyes on us will have about our choice of clothes. Or it would be ridiculous to thoroughly interview each of the new employee we are tasked with training so that we'll know exactly what each of them has learned previously, in order to avoid skipping any nugget of new material. Sure, these things are possible, but it is simpler and usually inconsequential to simply assume you look to everyone else the way you thought you did in the mirror, or assume the things that are obvious to you are also obvious to the new hires. This is how we operate as humans. It doesn't always work but usually it gets us by - and what else are we going to do, given limited time and resources?

This same phenomenon explains why men and women are so clueless about one another and what the other wants. Because Western society has championed the idea that the sexes are equal (which I don't deny), we have also started to assume that they are the same (which I very strongly do). At least, we have allowed ourselves to get used to this idea enough that when we consider what is attractive to the opposite sex, we are far less prone to interrupt our default course of action. In other words, we are far less likely to hesitate before we project our own ideas of attractiveness onto the opposite sex. To whatever degree we allow ourselves (or are allowed) to make this projection, we will believe that what is attractive to us must also be attractive to them. And this is where things get all fucked up.

Here is a list of things that each sex tends to think the other likes, erroneously:

Men believe that women like...

1. Physically attractive men (pretty boys)
2. Nice guys
3. Men that have no hair on their bodies
4. Sensitivity
5. Peaceful men

Women believe that men like...

1. Women that are elusive or "hard to get"
2. Tall women (heels)
3. Confident women
4. Women who can drink liquor straight
5. Women with status

Now, I realize that women do like nice guys and attractive guys, and I actually have male friends that have told me they are kind of into girls with status. Granted. Probably there are exceptions to all of the other items on the list. If there wasn't some element of truth to each item, none of them would be believable in the first place and I wouldn't be writing this. But I am sure that everyone has seen a girl throwing back a shot of whiskey to impress a group of guys, or a guy talking up the fact that he's cried in movies before because he thinks the girl listening will be into that. What is surprising is not that there are exceptions to the listed items; it is the level of importance that each sex is placing on them when they are infinitely more accurate as descriptions of their own sex's attractive attributes. To see this just consider the lists reversed:

Women actually like...

1. Men that are "hard to get"
2. Tall men
3. Confident men
4. Men who drink liquor straight
5. Men with status

Men actually like...

1. Physically attractive women
2. Sweet girls
3. Women that have no hair on their bodies
4. Sensitive girls
5. Peaceful girls

Men and women would be so much more successful if they tried to emulate the reversed lists. Some members of both sexes obviously get this, and do. However; a surprising number don't, and it is due to the self-projection of our own desires onto the opposite sex.

I started by saying that we always try to project our perceptions on others because we do retreat when strong evidence indicates that our perceptions are incorrect, or at least, inapplicable. We might retract our judgement of the "asshole slow driver" if our passenger points out that he's actually 10 mph over the limit and we can afford to be a few minutes late. Likewise, an explanation of this phenomenon applied to sexual attraction might help some women understand that (for example) men are not attracted by female elusiveness, or that it makes perfect sense for them to dump the nice guy with no balls, and date an asshole with confidence. Overcoming this misconception is a huge first step in the right direction for women who want to make themselves more attractive to men.