Friday, January 18, 2013

Why Men Don't Approach You During The Day

A reader recently asked in the comments of another post:

I saw you made a Twitter post about women wearing makeup to the gym... 
I go to the gym in my local area a few times per week. I'm one of those girls who wear makeup, albeit not a lot. I am 22, have a good figure and wear tight workout wear.
I have never been approached at the gym. I would have loved to be - there are many attractive men there, and it's in my local high-end area - they're well educated and successful guys, often attractive too. Sometimes I think they may be an age group a bit too old and that some of them are married. 
I usually get hit on quite a lot in bars. I see your posts about being around men and making yourself attractive to them. I follow all of that advice - I don't think I have a problem with the attractiveness part. I would love to be asked out in any of these scenes (gym, college...), because I feel I would have more of a guarantee that they're the right guys, but I am simply not. I sometimes catch them looking, but they never ever come over.
What is it? Are men too shy during the day? Or are there some things women must specifically do to make themselves approachable in daytime scenarios?

I probably should have addressed this question a long time ago, when I covered topics like Why You Don't Get Approached by Men and How To Make Yourself Approachable. In any case, there is a simple answer: men don't approach much during the day because there is a much greater social barrier to doing so. In a bar environment, social interaction is expected. People are there to socialize, if not there with the actual intention of meeting members of the opposite sex. Alcohol also facilitates the interaction a great deal, since it makes men relaxed and takes some of the difficulty out of the approach.

In other venues, like the gym, the grocery store, a shopping mall, or just on the street, most people are there to get something done. They aren't there to meet people; they are there to work out, or pick up some milk, get a new pair of jeans, or get home before it starts raining. Especially in the United States, which is a very accomplishment-focused culture, these activities are packed into an already tight schedule. And while this isn't always the case, and isn't an absolute bar to approaching a woman, it gives a man another excuse to talk himself out of an already nerve-racking experience. It is so much easier for him to tell himself "she is probably busy, and I probably wouldn't like her anyway" than it is to barge into her personal space and face rejection.

Your cause isn't helped by the following factors:

  • In public places like the gym or a bus, men who want to approach you would be more easily over-heard, so the embarrassment of failure would be greater than in a bar or nightclub.
  • Most women tell men "I would never want to be hit on at the gym. I am all gross and sweaty when I am at the gym. I don't want a guy approaching me; I just want to work out in peace." I can't count the number of times I've heard women say this. Granted, I usually understand this to be a self-serving comment, meant to display the fact that (a) men want to hit on them at the gym, and that (b) they have so much attention from men that they don't care. But unfortunately the effect on the male population is the same nonetheless: it tells men that women want to be left alone during their workout or daily activities.
  • Most women wear headphones and listen to music when they are in the gym, on the train, or walking down the street. This only heightens the sense that, when people aren't in the segmented few hours of their life assigned to "socializing," they are off limits to meeting strangers. If you follow me on Twitter you will remember the tweet I made recently about women wearing headphones in public. (Men do this too, of course, but it is less of an issue when it comes to being approached, since men normally do the approaching.)

So the short answer to your question is that men don't approach you in the gym or other day-times venues because they have to take much more social risk in order to do so. Most men can't get up the balls to approach a woman at night, so the added deterrents during the day make it even less likely.

One final note: although you aren't as likely to be approached during the day, and may therefore question the importance of always looking your best, it is worth considering that you are much more likely to be incidentally thrown into interaction with men during the day - for example, when you have a brief conversation with the hot guy at the front desk as you check in at the gym, or when you repeatedly run into an attractive guy at your favorite lunch spot. Not to mention that, by regularly paying attention to how you present yourself, you will learn how to improve your look and thereby optimize your chances in nightlife venues as well.


Related Posts
1. Bars Are a Good Place to Meet Guys - Part 1
2. You Always Go To The Gym. And You Like It.
3. What It Is Like to Be Rejected by Girls
4. How To Make Yourself Approachable

81 comments:

  1. Approaching at the gym is a serious violation of etiquette.

    Anyone who trains regularly knows you do not interrupt, and those that do are not looked upon favorably.

    It's akin to blasphemy in a church.

    ReplyDelete
  2. I think approaching in the gym is very different to approaching in other public spaces during the day. First of all, you are in a confined space (you're not actually stopping someone in the middle of the street) and secondly you have a mutual "interest" - although most people work out, you can run into the same person over a period of time at the gym, to the point where you start saying 'hi'. At the very least, you can say you've seen her before. You can strike up a casual conversation, or mention when you're usually there/which classes you take, in case she wants to take the opportunity to see you again.
    Like most women, I would be creeped out by approaches in the street or a grocery shop. I would also be too embarrassed to let people see me give my phone number to a stranger.
    The men who approach me in bars are all too often players, some are also overly cocky after a few drinks. It would be a nice change to have a guy talk to me in the gym. As long as he approaches BETWEEN sets if you're doing some exercises :-) The best is obviously to talk to a woman once you're both leaving a class or leaving the gym altogether, not when you're actually working out.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Re: mutual "interest": people go to college or to work to "get something done" as much as they do in the gym, but a lot of couples meet there as well.
      Only difference is that a gym is a bigger mix of people, whereas people who study or work together tend to be the same 'type'. However, I go to a very small, high end gym and we're often the same people bumping into one other. So there is definitely room for it some places.

      Delete
  3. It is in how men approach...Most men do not like to approach women in the day as woemn do perceive it as "creepy," note Anon's post. During the day, they are in a work / business mode and are not receptive to a strange guy coming up and directly talking with them. Somehow, at a bar at night, women are ok with a guy coming right up and talking, but try doing that at Starbucks and they shoot you down if they think you are hitting on them.

    Women who want to meet men should not wear headphones, zone out or give off the "do not talk with me" vibe. I find it just as easy to talk to women during the day as night. However, how I approach them is completely different.

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  4. I have a question. What is wrong with white guys in the US? It seems that women want to date them but they kind of act like pussies anywhere and at any time. I think Andrew, you are the only white aggressive guy in the United States.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. and from the sounds of it, you are getting all the pussy..because the other white guys don't make a move.

      Delete
    2. In my experience, white American men are (collectively, or on average) some of the biggest pussies in the world. However, that "weakness" comes with some benefits: the same white American culture that says it is OK for a man to cry, admit his sensitivities, not approach women, etc. is also the culture that shames men who cheat and expects them to treat their wives well.

      Cultures that value masculinity and aggressiveness above other things actually expect men to cheat and expect women to be submissive. I am not saying you shouldn't complain; I am saying that you should be aware that there is a trade-off before you do so.

      Why are white American men like this? That is a tough question, and other people would be far better suited to answer it than me. I've always been interested in the fact that most historically Catholic countries (and their colonies) remain more sexually polarized, while most countries that embraced the Reformation (and their Colonies) were more receptive to Feminism - including the U.S.

      I am not saying that the Protestant Reformation CAUSED Feminism, but I think it offers a hint. Most likely the same mindset that resisted the Reformation also resisted the tendency towards Liberalism (in the philosophical, not political, sense) and therefore towards Feminism, depolarized sex roles, etc.

      Maybe the countries around the Mediterranean were more conservative due to the investment of hundreds of years of war (i.e. the Crusades) fighting to keep the Catholic faith and culture? I am mostly guessing, but I can see how that would cause them to resist the trends that started to emerge in the following centuries. In northern Europe where they were less invested in protecting "Orthodoxy," they might have been more receptive to change.

      I'd be curious to hear someone's opinion who is more qualified, but I am at least confident that white American men are pussies because our culture has embraced Liberalism, which in turn spurred Feminism.

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    3. I think that you are totally on the mark in certain respects and although I am probably even less qualified To answer my own question I would like to point out a distinction I have noticed bet men from Catholic countries vs men from "Protestant " countries. I experienced growing up in both places and what I found was that in the catholic country, sexes were very much polorized like you said, but woman were put on a pedestal. In most catholic countries the virgin Mary is almost more important than Jesus. So women have a very high place in society (even though thier role is very fixed: nurturer etc.) and when boys are growing up they learn to really value and respect women. I feel that American white boys don't have this experience of really learning to respect women in the same way unless their momma tought them to. I think it makes a difference in the way they treat women because in the Catholic countries there is a real sense of romance and adoration that goes on from men to women. So yeah I think you are right and also about the trade-off which I do forget about and take for granted sometimes.

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    4. It sucks to have to wait (be at the mercy of) men to approach. But, my guess is you can't approach them, it 'takes away the challenge" and 'is less than elegant' according to dating advice. So, you have to wait. And wait. Cobwebs, crickets. Life passing you by.

      I can tell you who the aggressive (big ego) guys are who approach women regularly.

      a)alpha men- they are successful & hot and well versed at all the new bottom feeder tactics- game/neg/slowfade/circular dating and approach beautiful women as hobby. Since there are much fewer beautiful men than women, these guys have a 100 percent success rate, but ultimately futile (most women don't see this and run on pure adrenaline, romantically and fantasy thinking they will be 'the one'). They stay single forever and are constantly looking. Or, worse, get married and keep looking. No thanks.

      b)married men- they ALREADY have a family waiting at home and they are bored and/or just want flirting validation, they don't see flirting as risk- if you bite, they win and if you don't- they don't care or see it as rejection- since they are married and are confident the wife will never leave. Obviously totally unsuitable and immoral.

      c) younger guys- that's what brought me to this blog! Read "what men think of older women" and I had to catch my breath. Had a younger, hot neighbor who chased me and took me out, stated my age and that I need an older man serious about commitment. Pretended to respect that, was quiet (mad) and kept chasing...for you know what. Obviously he had nothing good for me planned. Shitty behavior.

      Unlike other women, I have not been approached by older men, which is precisely what I need. Most (all) of my married friends have husbands who are older and less attractive. I didn't want to do that when I was younger.


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    5. Weird, I was literally thinking about the whole idea of Catholics and veneration of Mary yesterday when I went to a Catholic funeral and had nothing else to think about during the mass. I agree with your observation, but I doubt that the veneration of Mary CAUSES Catholics to respect women more. In a small way it might, but I am more inclined to believe that whatever causes Catholics to venerate Mary is the same thing that causes them to respect women. In other words, both are manifestations of the same inclination, rather than one being the cause of another.

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    6. I think the Enlightenment had more impact on the future development of feminism than the Reformation. I'm thinking of key female figures in that like Mary Wollstonecraft. During the Enlightenment, a belief in rights for women was a bit on the fringes but it existed. A few French thinkers including the Marquis de Condorcet, Diderot and Rousseau (I believe) advocated some equal rights for women although their view was in the minority. I also find it rather interesting how progressive the Quakers were.

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    7. I wouldn't say feminism is CAUSING American white men to be pussies (although it may be a factor). I think it is more rooted in the puritanical mind set of America that is really sexually repressed and immature. You can see by some of the comments made on this blog the kind of woman-hating backwards thinking and downright confused many men are about their sexuality and female sexuality.Sexuality is a hard issue for most people in the world. So I don't hold it against these people, I hope they work it out.

      Delete
  5. Be an adult. If you want to talk to a guy, GO talk to him! Boohoo I never get hit on at the gym. It means you are putting of a vibe of "don't talk to me." I've seen it hundreds of times over the years. Attractive girl marches into the gym, out onto the gym floor, headphones in, serious look on her face, and starts working out immediately. That whole scene says, "Fuck off!" and so we do.

    There are ways to make yourself approachable. If you don't want to be "too forward," then ask the attractive guy the correct way to do an exercise, or ask him to spot you. We men love "mansplanin!" If that's too much for you then try bumping into him at the water fountain or at least making eye contact. Either way, you're 22 years old and you need to take responsibility for your dating life.

    This is all assuming that you're not engaging in some female trolling wherein you ONLY want one or two guys who you deem attractive to approach you and any other man approaching you would be considered "creepy" or "awkward."

    All in all, blame your fellow sisters for being bitches when letting a guy down. I know Andrew has a post on how to politely tell guys you're not interested. If I'm at the gym enjoying a good workout, why would I want to take the time out of my day to validate some little tart who might turn out to be a complete bitch? Its better just to enjoy my workout and keep your tight little ass in mind as motivation when I need to bang out that last set of squats. And besides, I'll prob see you out later at the bar anyways.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's really nice to get a male's perspective on this. I can see what you are saying. Us girls don't realize how hard it is for you guys sometimes. However, there are ways you can approach girls without risking so much. I think the main thing is you so need to read into a girl's body language. If she seems very cold and closed off or you can't make eye-contact with her than maybe don't approach her. But if you make eye contact and smile (not risking too much) and she smiles back than maybe you have a green light to go further. One thing you can do is also "plant seeds". This is basically doing things like establishing eye-contact or a smile or an exchange of words but not going further until the next time you see the girl. You can "plant seeds" with a lot of different girls in this way and sometimes things eventually grow out of it with a few of the girls.

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  6. Another reason that guys don't approach at the gym is that if that approach, or even an ensuing date, doesn't go well, then you run the risk of running into that person again and again, at any given point.

    I actually had a bad date with a girl I met at the gym and since I didn't relish running into her constantly, I ended up changing gyms. I rank the gym alongside work and home (as in apartment/condo buildings) - I don't approach girls there because the potential downsides are huge.

    ReplyDelete
  7. I actually find the gym as an excellent place to meet guys. I joined my gym only 4 months ago and I must say to my surprise I met many guys. Gyms are good for meeting people because you have a chance to bump into someone regularly and it's easy to make interactions. Plus, I happen to love going to sauna and my gym has a unisex one and every time I go there I casually talk to people (and guys are using saunas much more than women in my gym, for some reason). So basically every time I go to sauna I meet some people and then I see them in the gym, we start saying hi to each other, and so on, it's all very natural. I think I've met more people in the gym in these 4 months than in 4 months of going out.

    However, just as in clubs, you have to filter out A LOT if you want to find a decent guy that is not already attached. Plus, I've noticed that a lot of guys in my gym are too obsessed with their looks and I get the impression that they care more about their six pack than genuinely about women. I don't see them as relationship ready.

    To conclude, my experience is that you can have male-female interaction in the gym as much as in the club, but even though people are not drunk, there is no loud music, etc. it doesn't guarantee that a guy is not attached (even married)/doesn't want just a fling/isn't chasing you just for the sake of the chase, and so on.

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  8. Hm I have a question for you, Andrew. Is there a difference between how men interpret "the first move", and how women do. There's a book called "Screw Cupid" which is kind of a pick-up book for women and details a method called the 'neutral opener', which is apparently a way of approaching a man without him noticing that you're making a move.

    I also wonder what exactly men mean when they say "it'd be a nice if a woman made the first move". I hear men say that a lot. "I like a woman who knows what she wants" etc. And it confuses me because it doesn't seem to match up with what your blog says. I'm assuming that what men think of "the first move" is different to what we imagine. Hm. I am a bit confused about this.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I bought that book a while ago because the title caught my attention. It basically takes male "game" and tries teaching it to women, without any regard for inter-sex dynamics or sex differences. Use it at your peril.

      The simpler point, however, is that if you NEED to use these tactics, you are doing something else wrong.

      Focus your attention elsewhere, don't initiate contact.

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    2. Thanks Andrew,

      I have another question for you. I know this is a silly one but I really have no idea what I'm doing. How do I act on a date? What's the worst stuff to do on a date? I haven't been on many so maybe I need to go on more. Last time I brought the guy a small bottle of wine since he'd paid for me the last time. It was nothing to me. I buy people gifts all the time. However then I read somewhere that if you buy a man a gift, he pretty much feels that you're sizing him up and that it's kind of a turn off. So it's stuff like that I get wrong. To me it seems nice but according to male psychology it isn't.

      So I make the classic mistake of doing something for a man that a woman would respond to well, the same mistake some men make with women. *sigh*

      Delete
  9. I don't expect men to approach me in the gym, but nor do I particularly think they shouldn't. And it doesn't happen. Well I don't see people interacting much there. I don't think it's done thing. I do live in Scotland not America. My impression of American men by and large is that they're more likely to approach women in public than we Brits are. They are generally seen as more assertive. I have friends who've been asked out on dates by American men, which they've seen as quite novel because British men do not tend to do this.

    Example:
    http://fashion.telegraph.co.uk/news-features/TMG3364116/The-trouble-with-British-men.html
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/2194941.stm

    You'd do well in the UK, Andrew. 'Cause most men do not ask us women out except when under the influence of alcohol.

    ReplyDelete
  10. There are ways to meet men in the daytime. You just have to be in the right mindset, ladies! I moved to a new city on the West Coast and I was immediately hit on a lot (including during the day) and by quite a few very different men. This is apparently not normal for my friends who are just as (if not more) attractive and in the same age bracket (early 20s) across the country, nor for the city I moved to, so I will explain how I think it happened.

    Partially because of my outgoing personality, I make a ton of eye contact. I naturally tend to smile and laugh a lot already. I met men while asking for directions, at work, while drinking water on a hot day, while riding public transportation to and from work... Even while eating frozen yogurt on a bench by myself!

    Be genuinely interested in getting to know new people. I'm definitely not the most gorgeous woman (probably a 6/7?) but I know how to contour and highlight to bring out the best parts of my face, and I have curves that I expressly dress to accentuate. It will get immensely hard to find clothing once you decide to do this by the way because it is really hard to find clothing at a reasonable price that works with, instead of against your body type to create an ideal hourglass shape. I also started wearing my most flattering colors after reading this blog (thanks Andrew!)

    Step it up, ladies. Looking your best is not enough anymore. You have to be so warm and inviting that the thought of rejection is the last thing on a guys mind. Strike up a conversation, ask a question, smile and catch his eye across a crowded bus everyday on your way to work. When he feels compelled to say hi, start a conversation with you, or get your number, you will be shocked to find that he still felt like he was taking a huge risk to come talk to you -poor guys, we have made it so hard for all except the idiotic/superconfident ones to approach us... Haha sorry for the length of this comment, maybe I should start my own blog! ;)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sorry that was directed toward the title of this post, not the gym issue. I've never met anyone at the gym so I can't really help you out there!

      Delete
    2. I'm a straight girl but your comment was so sunny and cheerful that I think EVEN I want to come on to you ;)

      Delete
    3. I think what you've written is helpful but it doesn't work for everybody. Some people are just naturally introverted, take me for example; when I'm out-and-about I'm constantly zoned out from my present environment because I'm always in my mind.

      In order to maintain a constant external state of happiness and to start random conversations with random people would require me to be wholly present at all times which is my idea of hell. I actually enjoy my thinking time at the gym, on the bus or whilst waiting for the bus because I know that at work I'll have to be fully present.

      I do recognise and accept that this all stifles my dating experience but I also that despite the numbers of men that find me physically attractive very few will find my personality attractive because it's a-typical to most women (If you know about Myers-Briggs, I'm an INTJ) so I focus on attracting few men but from places were I'm most likely to find higher suitable men, for example, at conferences on subject matters that interest me etc.

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    4. the problem with this for me is that, while I'd love to do this, I live/work in NYC and if I act open/friendly/sweet during the day when I'm walking, taking public transport, or getting coffee at Starbucks I do get hit on--by a shit ton of creepy guys.
      I mean this happens constantly even when I have my headphones in and my "I need to get to a meet" death stare on walking down the street, but at least I can pretend I don't hear them. I'd love to be approached by nice guys, but I can't even imagine what the catcalls would be like if I didn't do this. It's already really frustrating/annoying and kind of scary sometimes.

      Delete
    5. Why would you make eye contact and subtly flirt with creepers? She's not saying that. The types of guys you WANT to get hit on by are obviously not the people you are getting hit on by now. The men you need to encourage and make eye contact with and smile at are not the creepers who hit on you now. I don't see how making eye contact or starting up a conversation with an attractive man on your daily commute invites more catcalls from the creepers. You're not putting yourself out there to the world, just to the men you find attractive during the day.

      Delete
    6. I love that comment. I have the same issue. I'm introverted (INFJ) and often I'm living in my own head. I've had to learn to make myself look more approachable so it's not unconscious for me. It does work though. Men need to know that you're open to an approach and that you won't reject them. Luckily I have a very sweet looking face with a button nose so a lot of guys will think I'm adorable. Again, I'm not the cutest girl but I can play it up well enough to make some guys blush. But I only know how to entice quiet guys really, since I'm a quiet girl and know what they'd respond to. More outgoing guys terrify me even though I find them the most attractive. I don't know how to look attractive to more extroverted guys.

      Delete
  11. Hey Andrew,

    What do you think of this dating strategy? - http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/video-the-best-dating-advice-for-women-dont-do-anything/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Daphne (and Anon @ 7:40 am a few threads up),

      I agree with it to an extent. In terms of initiating with a man, he is spot on: you don't have to and shouldn't do ANYTHING. However, this does not mean that you are powerless to draw men to you. It doesn't mean that you have no control over the attraction process. Quite the opposite is true. You have just as much control as him. You can improve your attractiveness, your fitness, your personality, your location, your social life, etc.

      While this might SEEM less powerful than it being socially acceptable to walk up to a man and say "hello my name is so and so," the practical different is negligible. Even the men who can do and DO that are met with rejection all the time, and have to spend just as much time as you do improving themselves in the ways described above, in order for their approach to be successful.

      Delete
    2. You know actually I walked up to a guy at my gym and introduced myself and asked him out for a coffee. He was the most attractive, masculine man with the best body (older version of Channing Tatum... with better body).
      His reaction was so cool - very baffled, hands shaking and forgot to introduce himself etc.
      At the end of our first date I asked him that was it okay that I asked him out like that. And he replayed that it was the coolest thing ever. He did bring something up about being afraid of rejection and said to me that I have nothing to worry about because no man would never say no to me.
      We dated for a bit, but it didnt work out for us. We still keep in touch and are friendly.

      So my point is that I am very attractive and men under no conditions approach me during the day (I dont do nightlife) so if I would like to get to know someone better I have to be the one to make the first move. I am not happy about it because while I am very skilled at social interactions, confident and charming, I also am very feminine and I would like a man I am attracted to take the lead.

      There is another man at my gym that I am interested in, man he is handsome... So this time around I will probably start out with asking him to be my spotter and do some small talk. But it really is so very difficult to approach someone very attractive because it is highly likely that they are taken and everybody just loves rejection.

      Delete
  12. I'm not Andrew, but amen to that dating strategy, works like a charm!

    ReplyDelete
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  14. Just out of interest, what was the comment about make up at the gym if anyone could enlighten me? (I couldn't find it on the twitter page)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Stop being bitter about girls wearing makeup in the gym. At least they are trying. What are you doing?"

      Delete
  15. I've still never figured out how to approach at the gym, which is unfortunate because healthy living is very important to me when looking for someone. I'm a very good looking, muscled, 6'0", 210lb former DI athlete who does very well with women outside of the gym, including other daytime spots, but the gym has always baffled me. Most girls give no discernable hint for an apporach, and if rejected you face embarassment from the target and surrounding people, who you see 4-5x/week. Also, as Andrew stated, I've heard from a lot of women that they would not be interested in being approached when working out.

    To add, I'm also sweaty, possibly smelly and in tattered clothes, so might not be at my best.

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  16. @Jason

    Maybe try talking to "everyone". You can probably easily talk to staff so that people start perceiving you as someone who talks at the gym. Then it makes it easy to say a throw-away line here and there to the people working out near you. You can avoid those that give off a total leave-me-alone vibe.

    My brother is a talk-to-everyone kind of guy and we went to the gym once together and he was having short convos and putting out throw-away lines that mixed in positive energy with a bit of cocky humor.

    Start in more low-risk areas like the water fountain or reception area and see what happens.

    ReplyDelete
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  38. It's strange that so many women/girls do not understand that the fear of rejection in men is very high while those same guys can be excellent potential partners. They think that such men are wimps/gays but this is simoly not the case. It is simply the fear of rejection.

    Women should approach men much more often than it is happening right now (which is basically almost nothing). My reasoning is the following:

    0) It will help develop more relations

    since it will temporarily eliminate the fear of rejection of men (and the fear of approaching)

    1) women are now more than ever independent

    and men (and also women) expect to some degree that they show IOIs and an active role in the game

    2) Women can then choose which partner they like as to hoping that he will approach

    Which because of the fear of rejection rarily happens.


    The argument that women think that some men are out of their league is an argument seldom valid.

    The reasons women do not approach men are basically the same as far men as might some think. This reasoning is wrong: women have far less fear of rejection and fear of approach simply because they're not expected to approach. Men perceive that women might come off as closed: this true but this is the fault of some guy in the past who approached her the wrong way. This is why most women seems to be not open or closed to be approached.

    If you are a girl/women and you see a guy you like muster up the courage to go and talk to him, trust me you'll be suprised at what succes you'll get! Do not give up after a few rejections almost all men will be flattered that you'll spend time and effort to go talking to him and they will quickly give you a chance.

    ReplyDelete
  39. The most stressful introduction I made in my entire life was to a woman sitting behind me in business class, Heathrow to Dulles. I helped her with her bag when she boarded; she was polite but ambiguous in her response to that. I then spent 8 hours trying to figure out how to indicate to her that I wanted to see her socially. There was first the problem of an airplane cabin -- if she was going to do the "ewww, creepy" thing, 50 people would witness it. There was the second problem that she was traveling with four colleagues, so if I went down in flames, I would be the entertainment they discussed for an entire flight, five feet from me.

    I was practically delirious with apprehension but I made the approach in the customs line -- talk about exposure, now we're in an environment with a few hundred people, plus guys with guns. I gave her my card in that line, with what I supposed was a confused smile on my face, suggesting that she email me if she would like me to take her out for a drink. We met for drinks and one of the more important relationships of my life ensued (and I think, for her). She lives on the other side of the world now with husband and children, but we have an emotional relationship that we both value highly. (I have an open invitation to their home, if I want to make the 17 hour flight, so I assume that her husband knows about our prior love affair.)

    I would much rather walk into a hostile board room with my company and career on the line than attempt a public approach to a desirable woman, most days. I have been in some pretty hostile business situations and any more they are just sporting events. Not so the public approach to a woman. My impression is that women continue to take for granted that men casually and naturally approach women on the street. These are the women, though, that often shame men who attempt to do so, if they deem the man unattractive.

    My suggestion to women is, if they think a man is indicating interest, two-fold:

    a. subtly escalate the interaction (ex.: "Aren't you going to take my bag down, too?") This is really just a permission slip to the man to continue to risk social humiliation in his effort to reach out to you. If he says something that =X, in social discourse, respond with X+1.

    b. stow the "eww creepy" shaming routine, as a matter of course. If you shame some men, but not others, we'll probably be picking up "danger, danger close" signals. We all play like we practice. A lingering smile instead of a blank stare is really not so much work, and certainly a lot less work than what the man is expected to do in making the connection. You can always reject his overture later after you have more information.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Conversely, I have a woman friend who routinely meets men in public places (bars, clubs, airport (she's an airline pilot)). Granted, she's used to being around men because of her career, but any woman could learn from her.

    What does she do? She looks at a man she's interested in, smiles, and says, "Hi!" Pretty complex stuff, eh?

    This wipes out the male fear of public rejection, and induces the man to drop his shield.

    She also mops the floor with PUAs, by the way. She's in command, not they.

    By giving the man her permission slip to flirt, she gets the men she's attracted to *to flirt with her*. They'll do all the work of introduction after her greeting, if they're also interested. When she's not interested, after a conversation, in the flirtation, she smiles and says some excuse and rotates away from the guy. Easy as pie. Men do not think that saying "Hi!" is slutty behavior; they are grateful. This is not a complex algorithm.

    ReplyDelete
  41. i am tired of getting rejected by women all the time, and i am a good looking straight man just hoping to meet a good woman to share my life with. and yet, they will go with men that are not that good looking. i don't get it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It is not supposed to make YOU feel desirable and respected, it is all for the women. Don't EVER think that YOU could be the prize. Great game isn't it?

      Delete
    2. It's not about looks, man.

      Delete
    3. lets correct this, its NOT about looks ONLY...

      Its about looks AND attitude, how your bring your personality forth in the way you speak and communicate.

      Btw, I have heard the ''wanna meet a good woman and share my life with'' many times especially before first time sex with the guy I flirt. Then later on he says he doesn't want any commitments... and we will see. Then later on i discover he is a gamer and manipulator whois only goal is satisfaction with a many women as possible. So everytime now I listen or read ''I really am a good guy looking for a good woman to share my life is'', i run away from that guy (at least emotioncally if not physically too). The scars are just too deep...

      I prefer someone who will say ''hey im a bad boy...lets have some fun ok? honesty!''.

      Delete
  42. Geez.... Am I the ONLY female who wants to be approached during the day? As long as its respectful and appropriate, I dont see the problem with it. The mall, beach, Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Starbucks are actually good places to meet people. But after reading the responses from the women ( using words like "creepy"), if I was a man, I'd think twice too.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Roxanne

      You are still unaware of your bigotry. You may want to be approached during the day but only by a very small percentage of men who have the looks and lifestyle you require. Anyone else and you'll waste no time labeling them creepy. And Thats ok. Its what comes naturally to you as a woman. But if you are aware of your prejudice you have my respect.

      Delete
  43. I have been approached in the day a few times, but at the end most of them said 'ok , nice talking to you' no number swap or anything.
    I'm not sure whether I am coming across as unreceptive or maybe they just liked my look but personality-wise wasn't their 'type'
    I would say I am more guarded when the approach is during the day. One guy wanted to try on my sunglasses and my first thought was he's going to run off with them.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah, probably your personality didn't match what they were looking for. Next time you can go ahead and ask for their number when they are about to say goodbye; not only women deserve an ego boost, you know. But they hardly ever give, only take take take and lay back. Change it :)

      Delete
  44. I am a bit perplexed. Really cute guys look at me, smile at me, during the day when I am minimally decked out. Even when I smile back, they don't approach. At night when I am dressed to the nines, I don't even get a second look. Hmm... I sometimes get approached by really creepy older men who look like they live in the bars. So what am I doing wrong?

    ReplyDelete
  45. i think men can sense if you are interested for them even when you dont smile. Then it looks like they are the ones initiation the flirt but its you, not them. A man is glad to be 'wanted' even by not so hot woman, so they appreciate that you 'volunteer' but they may be in a relationshp, or they may not think your are good looking enough for their standards or whatever but they still smile back cause its nice to feel wanted. They can have an ugly woman too. We women don't go for ugly men. So they appreciate all women, but we dont appreciate the interest of all men....

    ReplyDelete
  46. The numbers seem to show that fewer men are approaching women these days and I hope that this will break up the old rules and give men some more value.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If this is true, this is bad news.
      Because it means there are fewer self-confident men out there and more meek men, i.e. fewer movers and shakers and more 'wifey, you not only raise the children and keep house, you go out and earn the money while I sit around in my pajamas playing video games because I have no self confidence or drive'-ers.

      Women should not approach men because a man will pretty much sleep with any woman who approaches him. And he may very well be the video game pajama loser. Women therefore never know if the man really wants her for herself or is just using her. Nor will she be able tell whether he is driven or not.

      Delete
    2. ^^^

      Women approach men all the goddamn time.
      Ask any good looking / hot man and he will have tales to tell you about how often women approach and pursue him.

      Its just that women think that there are very few men attractive enough to be approached/pursued.

      Delete
    3. Is Andrew gay or straight?

      Delete
  47. I have been approached a number of times by women in different circumstances, mainly whilst socialising. On one occasion a random girl came up to me and scribbled her cell phone number on my hand which I thought was a nice touch. I wish that that type or thing happened more often.

    Overall though the total number of approaches that I have had in the gym and whilst out in bars has been minimal.

    I have a decent body, look good and I am a decent guy.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You have a decent body but not an amazing body
      You look good but not hot

      You have to be a top quality male to expect women to approach you frequently.
      That is the ONLY difference between men and women. We approach women of all shapes, sizes and levels of attractiveness. Women only approach top quality men. Society interprets it as "Men are culturally expected to be the pursuers"

      Delete
  48. I might be late to the party but whoever read this comment hope it helps.
    It is 21st century. Women have equal rights and equal everything so why does it men have to do the work when it comes to dating. If you like the guy go talk to him. I can guarantee you that when this girls says "guys do not approach me in the gym" she means the guys that she thinks attractive, and not the others, who if they approach her will get the creep lable.
    So if you like a guy what is stopping you from approaching him?
    and from my experience I know that when a girl approach a guy and if he does not like her. he will politely rejects her by giving a valid REASON, why he can't be with her. Unlike lot of girls who will simply turn away making guys feel like a sub human and make the guys wonder why at least she cannot just acknowledge his presence.
    Also that is the reason guys do not want to approach girls because why would you want to feel like a creep just for talking to a girl all the time?
    So if you like the guy go approach him, because I can tell you if guys start approaching you all the time you will post a comment saying "what is with all the creeps approaching me at the gym"?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I suggest you read the reply I just wrote to another reader, who had a similar comment: Link to Comment Reply

      Delete
    2. It's not going to happen 99% of the time, if you want women to approach men. You're thinking LOGIC when this has got nothing to do with logo, and equality, etc. This has got to do with emotions. It's an emotional language not a logic reasoning.

      Women have a lot to lose in their minds. They have social pressures and fear of being ostracised from society, other women, and also being labelled as whore, slut by women, and guys. She also fears that she maybe labelled as easy, etc.

      Women communicate different to men. It's part of their femininity and part of their survival language. They communicate when it comes to dating at a non-verbal way i.e. sub-communication.

      Don't blame the women. This is their nature. Blame the men who haven't got high self esteem, confidence and who put women on pedestal, and some importance of what a woman a guy doesn't even know, and gives a damn about him, thinks.

      99% of women are not going to suddenly change to approach guys. So guys will need to get some balls and approach women, and learn how to do it right. Most men don't know how to approach women. They weren't taught to be...MEN in school and at home.



      Delete
  49. I am a solid 8, newly single, and I've been sober for several years. Any advice on where to go where men will approach me, other than bars/clubs? Thank you!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It doesn't matter where you go LVGirl. You're an 8, then you'll be attractive, which will intimidate a lot of guys approaching you. Most guys are a bunch of pussies. You can walk out of your house, walk up the road in a busy area or city, and there we go, you'll see guys there or join activities you're into where men go. But it won't change the facts that most men fear rejection, and have approach anxiety.

      But if you want some ideas...

      1. The Market. Lots of men there shopping at supermaul.
      2. Cafe. You'll see a guy in a cafe. Ok, sit right next to him and say hi and start chatting.
      3. The park on day. You'll see guys walking.
      4. House party friends. See a guy? Get your friends to introduce him to you
      5. Bookshop.
      6. Activities. Like acting? Volleyball? etc. You'll meet guys there.

      Delete