Sunday, March 10, 2013

Men Don't Fall in Love the Same Way Women Do

A reader recently asked me if I've learned anything new about women from writing this blog. I have. To be specific, I've learned one thing - one important thing. I want to explain that one thing here, because the corresponding lesson for women is equally important.

So many of the women that write to me for advice have stories that go something like this...
I met my boyfriend through mutual friends. I wasn't very attracted to him at first. He wasn't the best looking guy in the world and he was a little quiet. I never really considered him a potential boyfriend, but then he asked me out. I agreed because I wanted to give it a chance, and I hadn't been on a date in a while.
The first date went OK, so we kept seeing each other. Before long I started getting attached and soon I found myself falling for him. We spent a lot of time together, and by three months I was in love. Now we are five months into the relationship and things have stagnated a little. He seems to be losing interest. Our phone calls are getting shorter, we see each other less frequently, and he's been answering my texts sporadically. In general the excitement he showed at the outset seems to have faded. I don't know what to do... I am completely in love with him and don't know if I can handle a break up. Is there any way I can re-spark his interest? What can I do??
Obviously this is just a paraphrase; the details of each story vary. But the common thread among them, and the thing that I found so interesting, was that the woman's love grew gradually, over months, often started as complete indifference. It amazed me that a woman could end up being so in love with a man that, initially, she wouldn't have seriously considered dating.

In fact, I was so surprised by this that I initially doubted the truth of the stories. I speculated that the women writing to me were subject to some kind of wishful thinking or tunnel-vision, by which they focused only on the good in their boyfriend rather than the advantages of other men. But this really couldn't explain the phenomenon. A woman couldn't wishfully think herself into a degree of love so strong that she would feel compelled to write me for help. I eventually realized that these women were being genuine, and I was forced to admit that there was a uniquely feminine mechanism at work.

By now most of you have probably recognized the important point for women, which is implicit in my astonishment: men do not fall in love gradually, and they do not find themselves suddenly falling for women in whom they weren't initially interested. I was surprised because I had wrongly assumed that women work the same way as men in this respect. But this is not the case.

Now, let me qualify a couple things before going any further. By "love" I mean deep romantic attraction, as opposed to lust or long-term attachment. Lust is primary, physical and fleeting for both sexes, and long-term attachment takes years of shared experience to develop in either sex. Also, I am not saying that this is the only way women fall in love, or the most common. I recognize that women can experience something closer to "love at first sight."

The important thing to recognize is that you cannot expect (much less make) a man gradually fall in love with you in the same way that you might fall in love with a man. It doesn't work that way for us. Male romantic love is something that either starts early and continues, or else doesn't start at all.

Since recognizing this difference in the sexes, I've had time to consider why it exists, and I think I have a reasonable understanding of what is going on. The information that a man needs to trigger romantic love is information that he can perceive within a few interactions with a woman. I believe this is true for a couple reasons:
  1. A great deal of his attraction to a woman is physical, and her approximate physical beauty can be demonstrated by seeing her in a handful of outfits (or, to some degree, through photos).
  2. A great deal of his attraction to a woman is rooted in her personality and energy, which can be demonstrated by experiencing her in a handful of moods. This takes longer than the physical attraction, but is still possible within a fairly limited number of encounters.
Other data, such as a woman's religious or political beliefs, her social class, her family, etc. are either immediately available to a man via conversation, or else far less significant in garnering his attraction. So, in general, a man can evaluate a woman quite quickly.

Now, for women, the situation is different. Many of a woman's triggers for romantic love are less immediate:
  • His personal strength and emotional stability, which can only be demonstrated by seeing him react to challenging situations, and these are unlikely to arise on a daily basis.
  • His intelligence and confidence, which - although more readily assessed - can also take time to evaluate, as they are best demonstrated via situations in which his wit or knowledge is pitted against others', or by seeing how he responds to other men in a variety of real-life social situations.
  • His commitment, which is only demonstrated in proportion to its duration. The longer he is with you, the longer he is likely to stay with you.
In other words, while a man judges his woman primarily in relation to himself, which he does quite quickly, a woman evaluates her man on how he relates to the outside world, and this takes longer. In addition, and perhaps more importantly, a woman needs to gauge her man's reliability, and this demands time.

From an evolutionary biology standpoint, this makes good sense: the man who propagates his genes successfully does not need months to judge the reproductive potential of his mate, or her ability to nurture and raise children; he can see these things from physical cues, as well has her energy, moods, and her instinct to take care of him. But the woman who propagates her genes is one who accurately judges whether the man with whom she mates is not only strong, but also stable - that is, capable of protecting and providing for her children until they are grown.

The implications of this are enormous for both sexes in dating, but let me underline the biggest lesson for women: if a man isn't falling for you from an early stage - say, the first month - it isn't going to happen. Don't wait around for his feelings to "grow" the way yours sometimes do. They will not. While this doesn't necessarily mean that he should be ruled out as a potential boyfriend or husband, it does mean that he will never be the woozy, infatuated lover you've seen in the movies. And if this is something you can't live without, you'd do better to break up with him now than to become more emotionally or sexually invested before breaking up with him later.


Related Posts
1. Why Women Don't Know What Men Want
2. The Female's Internal Conflict
3. The Analogy Between Confidence and Beauty
4. The Analogy Between Sex and Commitment

239 comments:

  1. I never really thought of it that way, but this makes so much sense

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  2. I agree with the title of this post, but I was puzzled when I read the content. Not because I disagree with your reasoning, but because I am profoundly surprised by the fact that you get so many emails of that nature. I have thought on previous occasions that the emails you are receiving are not representative of the female population (for various reasons I'm sure), but I believe it even more now.

    I have never experienced the gradual infatuation. Of course "love" does not happen by the blink of an eye, but on the two occasions I have fallen in love, there was an extreme attraction from the first meeting. I am not very visual but I think there is an energy there which you can sense. His masculine core draws my feminine one. Confidence is the most important attribute to attract women, and a man will show this upon a first meeting. Even if he isn't "challenged" in any way, his self-assured attitude will be obvious.

    I don't think I'm an "outlier" in this aspect. In fact, all of my closest female friends whom are either in relationships, or in love with a man they're dating, experienced attraction right away.
    I'm a typical girly girl and I have primarily female friends, so usually when a female phenomenon comes up for debate, I can either explain it or relate to it, but this one is completely unfamiliar to me.

    I do have one question though - if you have been in love, at what point did you recognize to yourself that you were? Were there any actions on your part which was significantly different from when you were dating girls you weren't in love with? I'm wondering what 'clues' to look for to determine that a man has fallen in love.

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    1. i'm curious to know the answers as well as i'm wondering about the same thing. and if i can add, what makes a man emotionally attached to a woman anyway?

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    2. I'm a guy and I totally thought the same way that Andrew did - that women were attracted immediately just like men are. But I've had three separate conversations in the last couple weeks with women who expressed this exact sentiment - one even going so far as to say that her last bf wasn't attractive to her in the slightest when they first met.

      This completely astonished me. It still throws me. There are two things I don't quite understand. One is why a woman would continue to date someone she's not attracted to. The second is why a guy would date a woman who clearly is not attracted to him.

      Obviously, the answer in both cases is desperate hope and a lack of options, but wow, is that depressing.

      I would suggest one thing, Andrew, and that would be to change the title to "Some" Women -- I know that's not as punchy, but it seems clear that many women act the way that you and I had initially expected, in that they only date men they're attracted to from the get go.

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    3. I think it's more as Andrew said--women care about more than physical attraction. So, if a guy asks a woman out and she's not at all physically attracted to him, but he's very nice, or funny or ambitious etc., then she will give him a chance for a first date. If that goes well, she will continue to date him and, overtime, will develop emotions for him.

      What- even I as a woman- didn't understand until recently, and am still somewhat confused by, is that when women have emotions for a guy, they find him more physically attractive, as well. This happens to one of my friends all the time.

      As for the guy, I don't think he would realize the woman was not attracted to him in these early stages. By the time intimacy grows, the woman would likely be interested enough that she would be into physical intimacy with him.

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    4. I have never gone for a man I find really unattractive. But I'd say the phenomena Andrew describes happens with people you feel are on an average level of attractiveness and might feel pretty lukewarm about. It's not that they are genuinely unattractive to you, it's that how you feel about them romantically conjures up physical feelings which weren't there before. So they're not the guys who give you an immediate feeling in your groin (I know that sounds crude) but what you share romantically anticipates a sexual connection.I know that sounds crazy to some guys!

      I would say though that once the initial novelty of new love dies down, it's hard to get used to the realities of a relationship with less to look back on. Then it can be harder in a way to keep up the physical attraction that you worked up. Sometimes I get strong physical attraction with no emotional connection; sometimes a great emotional connection with less physical attraction. For me it is easier to develop the latter. Obviously though the real deal for anyone is when you find both in one person - the strong sexual attraction plus the emotional connection. The cynic in me says that's pretty hard to find.

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    5. I can definitely relate to the type of "energy" that you are talking about, but only experienced this type of overwhelming attraction AFTER running the course in a 2 year relationship with a guy I had never had that type of attraction with but dated for two years and definitely loved. I think that these are examples of two different types of love/attraction/attachement, both of which are possibly for most women (I can't speak for men).

      I personally couldn't imaging dating a man I was not at all physically attracted to, but the guy I dated for two years was decently attractive--not gorgeous but decent looking, tall, good body, etc. I unintentionally fell in love with him over the course of several months, and he seemed to feel the same way (he said he loved me after about 6 months of hooking up). It was freshman year of college and neither of us were planning on being in a relationship, so it caught both of us by surprise. Our personalities just meshed extremely well, and we complemented each other.

      On the other hand, recently I have had a couple of encounters where I have met guys (only 2 in the past 1.5 years) where I can definitely feel an instant attraction/connection that completely surpasses anything I felt with my ex. I realize though, that this is mostly irrelevant of their character, personality, etc. and means that even though this attraction exists it doesn't mean we would necessarily have a successful relationship.

      I have friends who have felt both of these types of attractions, but most I know have only experienced one or the other.

      I think perhaps more then how each gender falls in love, which I personally think happens over the course of months regardless of whether you are male or female, that what Andrew might be getting at is that this type of "infatuation" or "instant connection" that is necessary for a man to fall in love, but maybe not for a woman. That makes sense to me.

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    6. To me this sounds roughly like the difference between the lover and provider type men and the attraction they would generate. A man that you are not attracted to initially at all but who gradually over time creates this attraction sounds very much like a provider and a predominantly beta man. He could still be a strong man in several senses but not very alpha or he would have created instant attraction in many women. Women here mention that the sexual component of the attraction is a lot weaker and dies easier with these types of attraction than with the instant connection types of attraction.

      On the one hand the descriptions given here give me more faith in the feelings women have for provider type men they date for a while. They do seem genuine and they do seem to lead to genuine desire for sex with he man over time. On the other hand the comments make it clear that the level of sexual attraction and passion for a man is way, way higher if it is more of the instant variety than if it is the type that only grows over time. It is also made clear that the provider/beta category of slow built attraction is at much higher risk of diminishing, at least loosing its sexual component, after the initial first love period is over. In other words, while it is not a fake attraction and not necessarily a bad deal for a man, it is far, far better for a man to be the type that generates the instant attraction. It will lead to far higher total attraction:

      "definitely feel an instant attraction/connection that completely surpasses anything I felt with my ex"

      And it will be much easier to sustain a fairly passionate and active sex life long term with a basis in the instant sexual attraction as Lucy describes.

      So as a man, I really, really, would prefer to generate the instant attraction.

      Of course in order to have a functioning relationship long term there needs to be enough stability, actual caring and other more sensible factors, enough beta in Athol Kays words, in addition to the connection that is more lover/alpha based.

      I was not at all aware of that many women only experience the slow grow attraction. What percentages do people here think we are talking about?

      What has been your experience of going from a relationship with a slow grow love to one finding a man that creates instant attraction? What is the experience of being with a man that creates both?

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    7. I think that the clue to whether a man is in love is stupidity - that is, his ignorance of issues. The rationale is based on my one relationship and on multiple peoples discussions of their relationships. The relationship lasted less than 9 months I think. The girl I was with had just broken up with the guy she lived with for about the 5th time, or so she said. The ex acted as though she and I had betrayed him. The GF has a daughter that I never seemed to meet because it was "never the right time". She broke up with me without telling me and avoided telling me for 5 months. In the meantime I was under the strange impression I was in a relationship while busy helping organise a convention.

      Looking back, I think I was stupid. I ignored any evidence that anything was wrong and lost friends. Some friends told me all along that I was making a mistake but I argued that or ignored what they had to say. So I think you'll find your clues by talking to other people that know the guy and think that they are not acting normal or even somewhat irrationally.

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  3. Andrew, Thanks for your post.

    What about a case in which a man seemed completely into me for the first month (Saying that I was the best girl he's ever been with, escalating emotionally, spending loads of time together, planning for the future etc.) and then started to pull away? (We never had sex, so it wasn't because he got sex and then left).

    Is there a way for women to gauge a male's long-term potential within the first month of him falling in love? Because if I had to guess with my guy, I would have thought he was in it for the long haul, but clearly, I may have been wrong.

    And what should I do in this case? He says he's too busy to meet but I think that may be a slow fade...Should I ask/confront him about feeling that he's no longer interested and then cut him off? Ask him if there's another girl in the picture he's fallen for more than me? I'd appreciate any advice!

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    1. I've had something EXTREMELY similar to this happen to me too. It's actually pretty creepy, because Andrew's mock email is basically exactly what happened with my last boyfriend from beginning to end. I actually almost emailed Andrew about it, but ended up dealing with it myself.

      Even though he wasn't my favorite candidate for a boyfriend, the first month was like something out of a movie (escalated emotionally, spent tons of time together, talked about the future (marriage)).Then he started pulling away and becoming distant (called less, texts got shorter, he wasn't rude but he generally just wasn't as excited). We also hadn't had sex. It shocked me, because I feel like I dated down from the beginning (not to sound conceited at all, but if you use Andrew's ten point scale, I wouldn't say we were in the same league- good thing this is anonymous).

      He made a few comments in the last few weeks that we were dating that stood out to me like "I've got you now, I don't have to impress you anymore" and others that make that same point. He was a really bad boyfriend emotionally during the last few weeks, but still talked about marriage and our future. If this is how you treat your future wife- I don't want to be your wife, right?! Eventually, I got so sick and tired of being treated as if I wasn't important to him or wasn't a priority anymore (which you will soon too Anna if this keeps on) and I kicked him to the curb, because I wasn't too impressed with him to begin with for me to put up with crap from such a sub par person.

      Anyways, Andrew my question to you is: should you excuse men behaving this way once they've "got you" or move on to find someone who can make you happy and is probably a better match for you in general? A relationship shouldn't make you insecure like this, right? I understand that all relationships get boring at times, but they shouldn't make you insecure. Is this an example of a guy playing mind games to manipulate you to want him more or does he just generally not care anymore?

      Anna, good luck to you. I tried all sorts of ways to fix my relationship when this happened, but depending on how much this irritates you/makes you unhappy it may be best to get out of it. I felt really insecure when I'm usually a very confident person with a generally happy disposition. For a few weeks, I excused his aloofness and just went about being my happy self to show him that I was the same girl he initially fell in love with but after so long his behavior just started irritating me again. Once I got out of it, all of the anxiety that you're having went away and I'm dating other guys (nothing serious yet) but I'm just back to my happy, normal self. For me, moving on was the best decision, but that may not be for you.. Just keep being the best "you" that you can be and if it doesn't work out, I would say there's probably someone else out there who would be more compatible with you and make you happy. He may be in it for the long haul for sure, but do you want to be in it for the long haul with someone that you aren't satisfied with? Good luck.

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    2. Thanks for your advice, Abby! I definitely have been thinking of just breaking it off recently. I hesitate because we really got along and everything seemed so easy--there was no doubt in his affection for me. It was so refreshing compared to any of my previous relationships. It seems like it was this way in your relationship, at first, too. Every time I think I understand guys and dating, something unexpected happens like this to me or my friends that I don't understand.

      It's definitely true, though, that if someone isn't treating you as a priority, then you shouldn't treat them as one, either. I can't focus on anything because of thinking of him and I hate that. I want to ask him bluntly what's going on--I feel like girls are always accused of being clingy when we bring up these issues, but, ironically, he was the one to escalate things so quickly.

      I think you're right on to be the best "you" you can be--me not focusing on work is definitely not accomplishing this, so I need to start acting the way I did before his pulling away. Good luck to you as well, if you're happier without all the anxiety, that's the most important thing :)

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    3. Sure! If you're hesitating, then just wait it out a little bit. If things get better, great! If they don't (or get worse), then Houston we have a problem. I waited a few weeks before I officially broke it off, but I thought about breaking it off a lot before I officially did. When I figured out he was just making empty promises whenever I would bring something up, I knew I needed to break it off, because we weren't a good match, regardless of how well we initially got along. Go with your gut. Don't do anything you'll regret, but at the same time I wouldn't waste TOO much time on someone who you know you won't/can't spend the rest of your life with. Make a pros and cons chart. Pray about it. You'll get it figured out. :)

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    4. I think guys can be pretty transparent about their feelings. Especially when he loves you, he wants to treat you right. And when you're not very important to him, you can tell by his absence of phone calls, physical contact, or general care in the time you do or don't spend together.

      One thing I've learned from the experience of 2 long term relationships, 2 full years without a date, reading this blog and a budding relationship now, is that all you can do is control how you act around him. Make him want to be around you. Whenever he does something that makes you happy, GUSH about it. He loves that, because none of his male friends will do that. Your emotional, feminine side will make him happy when YOU are happy. My bf of 5 months still writes me little notes in the morning before he goes to work, and buys little gifts for me on occasion because he knows he'll be rewarded with affection, a home-cooked meal or just verbal praise for it if he does something nice :) That goes a long way for the male ego.

      That said, the same goes to the opposite. Positively reinforce the good, and do not even mention the bad. If he doesn't call you for days on end, don't call him and keep busy. If he mentions it (especially early in the relationship), pretend it doesn't bother you. You have other people to spend time with, and he will realize you are a woman of value by not acting desperate. If you make him question how much you like him early on, he will continue to work for your affection. So, with this guy, I'd suggest completely not contacting him for a while. See how long it takes him to contact you. You'll get the picture of how important you are to him pretty soon.

      I think this is a common mistake women make: after only a few weeks of dating, we assume that the guy is just as committed to us as we are them. Don't let him know you're totally smitten so soon! Let him bring up the conversation of exclusivity, because he's afraid he'll lose you if he doesn't.

      AND, if this current guy is just not working out, just remember this stuff for the next guy that comes around. It's amazing how, once you're treated right, the other guys in your life don't matter, even if you once had such strong feelings for him. You deserve to be treated right, and you shouldn't accept anything less.

      Hope that helps :)

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    5. Great advice Becca - I needed to read that!! :)

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    6. Thanks Becca!

      I agree that I should have kept my options open since meeting him. I've turned down guys for dates because I only wanted to see him, and I'm regretting that decision now. I just thought 2+ months was long enough that he wouldn't pull away given his rapt attention on me during that time. While it concerns me that it's not long enough, it's a lesson learned--I'm never taking myself off the market again until I'm in a relationship, even if I start falling for the guy.

      I'm not going to contact him again, as you advise. I'm also going to get back on the market. If he comes contacts me this week, I'll date him along with other guys and if he doesn't, at least I'll be open to new relationships again.

      This definitely helped me, thanks again!

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    7. Great advice, Becca! Wow you are so right on! I will use this as a dating mantra. Simple but it's the way~

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    8. ITA. Great advice, Becca!

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  4. I think this post is fairly accurate in the sense that, in general I find that women can developp feelings for men they werent particularly attracted to at first, or even remotely interested in. However this evelotion seems to take place over a couple of dates more so than over a couple of months. I, personaly have many times found myself developping a strong attachment for men that I wasnt particularly interested in upon the first encounter. This usually starts with simply liking the attention from the said person, then craving that attention and interaction and this quickly turn into constantly thinking about that person and soon have it completely consume your thoughts. As for my personal experience, although in these cases it never grew to be "love" per se. I would explain that phenomenon with "falling in love with the idea of love". Us women tend to systematically grow strong feelings for any man we've "let in" or invested time towards, solely because we desire to be loved and be in love so vividly that as soon as someone got is "close enough" to what we envisoned, we tend to project onto this individual qualities he doesnt even posess and somehow convince ourselves that that person in right for us, often wrongly so.

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    1. I agree with that. When I was more in love with the idea of love, it would seem like I fell for a man gradually but really it was a facade which eventually removed. I wouldn't say I didn't grow to be fond of them, it just wasn't deep love. There are some men I would never grow to love due to fundamental incompatibility. But I would say that I can fall in love with someone I wouldn't naturally gravitate towards if there's a 'hook' and we match on important deal breakers for me.

      This post gives me some food for thought. I'll try to relax if it seems like the guy is really enthusiastic about me (not automatically get suspicious). I'll try and gently tell him to slow down a little rather than being scared off (within reason of course).

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  5. I noticed this difference between men and women as well. I had past men develop very strong feelings for me in the very early stages of dating and it freaked the hell out of me. I use to assume that they were just stupid for falling for a girl that they barely knew. Sadly, I perceived this as a red flag and bailed out of the relationships that might have worked out.

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    1. If men can develop feelings pretty quickly, then...

      what differentiates 'needy' behaviour for a man and for a woman?

      If a woman thinks of a man as 'needy', is she using different criteria than a man would to judge a woman as 'needy'?

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    2. 'Needy' is just another term for 'they like me more than I like them'.

      Not gender specific.

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    3. 'Needy' is when one individual makes another individual appear to be the centre of their world.

      A 'needy' man is also known as "the nice" guy who's always too available and is considered to show too much effeminate traits.

      A 'needy' woman is also known as "crazy" depending on her level of neediness.

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    4. An important takeaway for men regarding this phenomenon is that they should be more cautious about expressing their love in the early stages, in order to avoid the situation you describe.

      But note that your reaction was rooted in your assumption that he didn't have enough information about you yet, which probably wasn't true. If her were a woman he probably wouldn't have had enough time to evaluate a man, but the whole point here is that men and women have different requirements when evaluating the opposite sex.

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    5. So @Andrew, how do you weigh in on the "should a girl ever tell a boyfriend 'I love you' first" debate?

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    6. What a sick era we leave into. all these fears and insecurities, we are like robots or worse: "men should not reveal their feelings at an early stage cause they d get tagged needy...". what a load of crap... people today i think are more emotionally handicap than ever. i will show my love as much as i want you losers :-PPPPPPPP

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    7. ha, ha Mojossed. I agree with you. That makes me far and between. I actually like a man who shows affection and reveal his love early on. I think someone who's really imature would tell a man not to show his emotions or to keep them hidden, because if a woman is attracted to you and care for you and you care for her, why should there be any hindrance in showing your emotion? I think the root of this is caring for oneself over the other person. You are not only insecure but you care more about yourself and your comfortableness than the other person. I used to do that crap in high school. Now, I have a tendency to loose men, who hide their emotions in the beginning and let them lose in the end. I don't understand all these rules. They make no sense. If you call a man and show your interest he thinks you're too clingy? What kind of man can you be dealing with? I had that happen to me. The guy liked me from the start, I liked him too and then for eight months he constantly made excuses to not spend time with me, not be around me, not call me, or even interact with me on a regular basis, put everyone before me because he was trying hard to conceal his feelings so he wouldn't get hurt. Due to his "tendencies", I got fed up with him and lost interest when he finally did come around and explained to him why. I don't play games and I didn't want a man who was scared to be himself or show his emotional side around me. This guy could even tell I was a good woman and that we would make a good match, everything was right but he was looking for the wrong, and as a result, he lost the woman that would have made him happy and truly enjoyed him for who he was. That's his fault, not mine. I said next time you have feelings for a woman, don't be so quick to conceal it for nine months or any longevity because if you wait to long that woman will lose interest in you.

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    8. Mojo, you are the man. Now that's confidence to me. As a woman, I can be physically attracted to a man, although it's a rarity because the thing I find most attracted by a man is his personality, his sincerity and dedication as well as his romantic side if he has one. He has to be able to display his emotions well. I don't think the alpha male is the one who plays neanderthal, or a player or someone who look at a woman with the intentions of impressing her without being himself or even trying to be hard. I can't stand those type of men. They are weak to me. But what's even weaker is when a man can't display his confidence in his feelings and emotions. After high school that man should be developing his confidence in those areas and by their thirties and forties those areas should be well developed, just as a woman's should be well developed in my opinion, but a lot of men say I'm cold hearted or don't show my emotions well when I'm like I cook you dinner, I smile at you. Tell you I miss you. Want to be around you, and show you my affection when we're together, now I may not break down and cry into a bucket of tears on my knees begging you to be with me or act crazy and irrationally jealous with my emotions, but it's not that I don't feel, it's just you're dealing with a woman who knows what she feels and how she feels. She understands herself enough to be confident in what she wants. She can be confident in showing you gratitude, love and affection, and devoted to you. Maybe not in the novel sort of way, but best believe when I tell you I love you and I show you, especially in the bed room, what is there is there.

      Another thing that baffles me is I've noticed that men and women have gotten to this stupid idea that they have to hide from one another. Why? Why can't a woman be who she really is from the beginning? Why does a man have to impress a woman for her to be interested? I want to know the real man beneath, because if you show me something that's not you in the beginning, I'm going to loose interest point blank and feel as though you are not real with who you are.

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  6. What do you mean when you say "energy?" What kind of energy? Because, as I see it, women can either exude mostly BUBBLY energy or mostly CALM energy. Which girl is considered more attractive and feminine(looks being equal)?

    A) A vivacious, exuberant girl who comes off as passionate but COULD also come off as a little crazy (because she is so energetic). Think Reese Witherspoon's character in "Legally Blonde."

    B) A chill, relaxed girl who appears to go with the flow, but doesn't come off as particularly energetic. Think Sloane Peterson (Ferris's girlfriend) in "Ferris Bueller's Day Off."

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    1. I think that both are attractive to different guys and it depends on what the particular guy is looking for

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    2. Different men will appreciate different types of energy, depending on their own. What matters is that your energy is confident and authentic.

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  7. Well I think the post is accurate with a couple of additions. I know that some women can grow on a man, that he might see you as a friend first before a girlfriend, but not in the sense that you're not attractive to him. It's possible that a man might not initially show interest but will show interest later when he becomes emotionally available. In that case I don't think the guy is hedging his bets, but taking time to get to know a woman before swooping in, as well as taking a view of his options.

    There are a couple of times I've misjudged timing on when to get intimate and one guy told me, "I see you only as a friend. There's no love there". When I heard it, I thought the guy was naive in his definition of love but now I can see what he meant, in the context of what this post says.

    It makes me feel a little bit vulnerable that you say men make their mind up so quickly about whether they see 'love' in you. Kind of scares me because it can be hard to tell when a man is being real and when he isn't. I don't want to jump to the conclusion of feeling unlovable but I feel like a bit of a lost cause sometimes. I have (very mild) Social Anxiety and occasionally am a little bit nervous in social situations, hence I look less fun than I really am based on initial impressions. So it's pretty hard to play up to the carefree and fun persona men seem to love. They may see the nervous me and write me off just like that. That worries me.

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    1. I recomend learning to meditate and practicing mindfulness throughout the day. It is very effective against anxiety

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    2. Thanks. :) I will give that a go.

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  8. This is a great post Andrew but what I want to know is what to do when these jerks who we weren't even all that interested in in the first place turn around and start thinking that they can do better. Even better, how do we prevent this from occurring. I'm guessing that this is when women need to keep their cool and not act so interested because it signals to the man that the woman might be "below their league". This is one of the hardest things for me to do. Once I feel the spark of love or passion, I can't seem to hide it.

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    1. That happens to me a lot. I think we should at least aim higher. At least we'd be getting rejection from men in our league.

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  9. When I saw the title of this on my reader, I thought this may make for an interesting read, but the more I read the more confused I became. How does this square up with men, especially men with options, wanting to primarily escalate physically with as little emotional entanglements as possible and how said men typically are protective of their commitment and their emotional attachments?

    Even from an evolutionary standpoint, like that which you evoked, it doesn't serve a man biologically to become easily emotionally infatuated or enthralled by a given woman in any meaningful way as this sort of entanglement is not conducive to his procuring of a variety of women and propagating the species.

    With that said, this post seems to run contrary to what you've written in the past. The accepted knowledge in this "blogosphere" is that men typically take time to fall in love or become emotionally attached to a woman. That men tend to fall in love accidentally while not particularly looking for it and a women's best strategy if she wants a relationship is to escalate emotionally while he escalates physically. Eventually one party must concede to the other or a compromise will be made.

    While a woman will not even be in the consideration for love unless she meets a certain attractiveness threshold, this love that he finally gives to her is contingent mainly on her personal qualities which takes time to be expressed and considered.

    Please let me know if my logic fails, because I would like to understand where in which this squares up with previous sentiments you've expressed relating to this topic on this blog.

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    1. "With that said, this post seems to run contrary to what you've written in the past. The accepted knowledge in this 'blogosphere' is that men typically take time to fall in love or become emotionally attached to a woman."

      What I have said previously is that withholding sex from a man is smart because it gives him time to get to know you better, and hopefully fall in love with you. The implication, of course, is that a man takes TIME to fall in love with a woman, and this is true.

      I am not claiming that all men fall for women instantly; I am saying that they take much less time than (some) women take to fall in love - maybe it takes him only 2 weeks while it takes her 3-6 months. It would be stupid for her to sleep with him on the first or third date, and have him switch into the mindset of her being his fuck buddy before he has time to realize that she is more than that.

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    2. Then why are women almost always compelled to say "I love you" before the man does? (Even if the women bite their tongues and don't ACTUALLY say it)

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    3. The same reason women are 'compelled' to pet the cute puppy before the men do.

      Do you really think we don't want to pet the cute puppy?

      It's so cute...

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    4. Andrew,

      "I am not claiming that all men fall for women instantly; I am saying that they take much less time than (some) women take to fall in love - maybe it takes him only 2 weeks while it takes her 3-6 months."

      But if this applied to even a statistically significant percentage of your audience, then women would find hardly any need to be reading blogs and books on how to make men fall in love with them. It's easy to attract men if you're a reasonably good looking women, but the whole catch is getting him to stick around and that's where women seek knowledge the most. (It is analogous to men seeking knowledge on how to get laid or reading game blogs/books.) If women were finding it realistically simple to have him become meaningfully enthralled early on, this knowledge would be useless to the vast majority of women and that does not seem to be the case in practice.

      I do think you should consider reevaluating this theory or at least restating it more carefully because I find it difficult to reconcile this with reality. It seems to be the case that oftentimes the woman wants to escalate the relationship to another level while the man wants to keep it more casual. I typically do agree with much of what you write and find your opinions insightful, but this phenomena about men falling in love early on is news to me.

      Perhaps what you term as "falling in love" is throwing me off.

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    5. The take-away here is that if he doesn't obviously like you a great deal in the beginning, he never will.

      Ninety percent of the questions women ask here can be answered with 'Your expectations exceed your ability to meet them.'

      How do you get the guy to stick around? Aim lower.

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    6. I am not sure if this is the full answer to Solelis question but I think part of it is this. A man with a lot of options that spins plates and has sex with several women at the same time will often have quite strong feelings for more than one woman at a time. His abundance allows hi to compare and contrast the women over several months until he makes a full decision that this one stands out. So the point at which he really puts his relationship emotions into it is more around the point where he decides to choose one particular woman and ditch the rest. This is usually after three or so months of dating.

      So a more average guy feels physical attraction almost instantly and infatuation rather quickly (few dates or weeks). WHen he feels infatuation he thinks this is the women I want and goes for it because he needs to be the one leading things on. At that point of making a decision that this is the girl, his meotional atatchement increases a lot because you swith category from intruiging to the one. For a man with a wide variety of options that is currently seeing a few women he gets instant physical attraction and just like an average guy might develop the key part of emotional conection and infatuation after only a few dates or weeks. However, he holds back his final emotional investment because he wants to make a fuller personality asessment and comapre you thoroughly to the other girls. His screening process is more similar to that of a woman in this sense. He is basically not checking for basic looks and feminine vibe etc in this phase but all the good mother, safe girlfriend, how will she actually treat me, does she have character and integrity etc. type stuff. The man with options just demands more and more certainty of asessment until he goes all in. When he does his love increases a good chunk more.

      You could also ask at a PUA forum how the guys experienced this before they got good with women and how they experience it now.

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    7. @Vicomte, But then why when women sometimes say "I love you" after a month are so do men just freeze, wish you hadn't said it, and tell you they're "not ready" to say it back?

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    8. It's easier than saying 'Yeah, I'm just hitting this for now. I don't even like you all that much, and I can definitely do better, but, uh, thanks?'

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    9. Oh...I meant pre-sex and assuming the man and the woman are in a committed, exclusive relationship.

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    10. See above.

      Replace 'hitting' with an ellipsis.

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    11. So then...if he asked you to be his girlfriend in the first place, how do you ever know that he's not just "dating you for now?"

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    12. It involves a white dress and a big cake.

      Also, when you tell him you love him, he'll respond with something like 'I love you, too.'

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    13. Maybe the real answer is that I just shouldn't say "I love you" first to a guy at all and wait for him to say it.

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    14. @Soleil & Andrew,

      I have the same question as Soleil--if guys really do fall for women in a month, why do so many guys leave them at the 1 month-3 month relationship mark?

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    15. Of course.

      That's why whenever I go to a bar I just stand in the corner and wait for the girls to offer me blowjobs.

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    16. So is it a myth that dudes almost categorically get freaked out if the girl says it for the first time before they do?

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    17. Ruth: Yes.

      Anna: Diminishing returns on novelty sex.

      Everyone else: He's just not that into you.

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    18. Thanks, Vicomte--

      So regarding my question: "if guys really do fall for women in a month, why do so many guys leave them at the 1 month-3 month relationship mark?"

      Your answer definitely makes sense for relationships with sexual intimacy, but what if you're not having sex in that 1month-3 month time range?

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    19. @Ruth and Anna: men freeze up when women say "I love you" after a month or so because they've been brought up to believe that:

      a)Some women throw those three words around because they're solely looking for a ring and/or to have babies.

      b)Some men like to be in control of the pace of the relationship particularly when the relationship isn't exclusive.

      c)Some men and women place a considerable weight of value on those three words so they expect others to do the same.

      d) Men don't have the same sort of emotional support as women do when a relationship goes sour so they tend to be more cautious as to who they open their heart to.

      Conclusion: it's always wise to let the man say those words first and it's even wiser and more attractive to the man if you respond in a reasoned way i.e. don't scream "I LOVE YOU TOO!!" but say it in a calm "I've been thinking about us too" way or tell him that it's too soon to respond (but only if true).

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    20. "But if this applied to even a statistically significant percentage of your audience, then women would find hardly any need to be reading blogs and books on how to make men fall in love with them."

      I never said men fall in love easily, I said that men fall in love faster. The implication was that WHEN THEY DO fall in love, men fall in love faster. But I never said that happens often.

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    21. Guys who are slightly out of women's league or not looking for a gf can take longer to fall in love because he is debating whether she's good enough (in his mind, I don't want to get into whether it's true or not). The woman can wear him down over time and eventually he develops a certain level of love for her but this won't be the same kind of enthusiastic, wildly-romantic love that he would feel for a woman he was more attracted to. I have several female friends that were in rocky relationships where the guy wasn't as excited about it but stuck with it and eventually he came around and they got married.

      If women want men that are really excited for them they shouldn't try to go for men that are out of their league--hard, since that is the fantasy of many women a la Pride & Prejudice.

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    22. my experience is that i rarely go for the alpha male types. i find their energy too strong and prefer a man who carries more of a quiet confidence. i do attract the alpha male type because i am highly attractive but feel that level of attraction to be too strong and the emotional aspects of the relationship don't develop the way i would like them too. dating a beta male feels more comfortable and he usually carries a bit more softness, though still highly male!!
      i am currently dating a very sweet beta male, we have gone on 9 dates and nothing has gone into the bedroom.

      there is a very strong attraction to him, he has a smell in his neck that i am a bit crazy about and we've done some beautiful making out in the back of the car. he has said to me that he "can't get enough of me" and that he feels our chemistry is very strong. he is an engineer and i am a teacher in primary school so we are a bit ying-yang, he says that i encourage him to try things that he wouldn't normally try and i think that is a compliment? i also feel the same way about him in different ways...

      i am dating other men too, though he seems to be the one putting in the most effort to see me. i think it will take time to see where this will go however i believe before the relationship becomes physical there will need to be some discussion as to the "exact status" of what the relationship is, i am not prepared to invest more emotionally and my body for someone who is just looking for physical fun. i plan to wait between 3-6 months to see exactly how this plays out.
      my question to the group is:

      how early in the dating is it fair to say to a man that in the next 2-3 years i am looking for marriage and family? i can imagine this would freak a man out but is there a way you would like to be asked or learn that about what a woman wants? i sometimes wonder if earlier is better as i can gauge which direction his compass is facing? any input from the men?

      that song "how will i know" by whitney houston comes to mind :)

      we have also been talking about our feelings a little bit, he asked me if i ever feel lonely? i took this as a way of him saying that he does sometimes... i said i do and that i can't always make sense of the world and that i am a sensitive person. i really do love being a woman :)

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    23. To AnonymousMarch 15, 2013 at 9:52 AM
      only the fact that you call this poor guy who is probably in love with you, a beta male you deserve to get instantly dumbed by him cause you are at least a "delta-female" (no matter how goodlooking you are or whatever- the inner seems rotten) and you DO NOT DESERVE being with him. a woman that would think of me like that would get dumbed from the first day. we dont need mercy and pitty.

      All these modern theories about relationships are for the trash can. And then the Alpha, beta, gamma, omega...yeah, seems like a therapist commercial trick to me (joking of course but the theories are still shitty). And i include the evolutionary ones too, well if you want to believe you come from the apes suit yourself but dont ask later why, they are full of contradictions and crap (its simple its because their foundations are fake as shit)

      No, no no. if you love us fucking say it.(to SarahMarch 11, 2013 at 12:17 PM).if he is scared by it you were wrong dating him in the first place. why to date a girl if i dont feel some attraction? to make fun of her? as a sexual "defrustrator" till i find something better? well thats me of course, out there, assholes are swarming like ants.

      There is nothing wrong with expressing feelings, nothing wrong with being heartbroken sometimes, there is nothing wrong with being shy (i say it because women have a thing for players usually, thinking shys as sick from plague or sth, but they get mindfuked etc after that-cause they wanted to get it well but you cant usually have it all i suppose). also everyone is different, you will love the unique traits of a person,often blinded to the his bads as well. if we have an "alpha male" with some specific traits and all are clones of him the world would suck ass. "but you didnt get it its not what the theory says." shushh shushhhh! i dont want to hear that crap. falling for these traits in someone is like falling for a womans pair of breasts...its so low...(and many other things i dont have time to develope of how stupid these theories are).

      dont be chickens express your feelings to others, in that life the time is little, so itching our nerve endings is one thing but incomparable of being in love (combinations can be achieved though:), though the center of motivation would be moved from thyself to the other person...). the choice is yours to make at how youll spend your time...

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  10. Andrew,

    One big piece of this that I think you're missing is the chemistry at work. Observing the behaviors that you mention, like intelligence, confidence, strength etc. are big, but I think even more obviously responsible in these cases is the bonding that happens with the release of oxytocin associated with sex. Once women are in a relationship, even with a man they are initially not that attracted to, if they have sex for long enough they will become bonded and fall for him.

    This agrees perfectly with your evolutionary bio view-- even if the woman was not that attracted to the man initially, once she has (potentially) become pregnant with his child her need shifts to ensuring he will be around to raise their child. Bonding and feelings of romantic love serve to promote that.

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    1. Annie, I don't mean to belittle your point but, chemistry is merely the mechanism by which our lives take place on a molecular level. It is neither the cause nor the effect, which are the only things we really care about when it comes to making a change.

      I agree that sexual interaction makes a woman fall for a man faster, but I am not too concerned with the chemicals involved.

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    2. I think it's a relevant point. Women are wired to grow attached to someone they've had sex with. Men are not. Explains why women fall so much in love with guys they are not initially very attracted to. Guys have a strong initial attraction, but it takes longer for them to get attached.

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    3. I agree with you Sally!

      Could be similar to women not understanding how much men might want sexual variety (sex with many different women)?

      So, men might not understand this attachment that women start feeling when they've had sex with a guy, as it is not in men's nature.

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  11. @Andrew
    "What I have said previously is that withholding sex from a man is smart because it gives him time to get to know you better, and hopefully fall in love with you. The implication, of course, is that a man takes TIME to fall in love with a woman, and this is true."

    No, it's not mathematic so it's not always smart and true. Withholding sex doesn't make men fall in love with women. Men fall in love quickly and loose the feeling quickly. It can be a mistake, giving him signal that you don't like him by refusing sex in early stage when he has feeling. He will leave and dissapear becuase of feeling rejected and find someone else. Your lost if you also like him.

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    1. There is a difference between withholding sex and having a slow timetable. Withholding it from a guy, he either has no idea if it will happen, or know it's not going to happen at all. In both cases, if he wants to have sex with you (and he does), he's going to bail to date women who will have sex with him.

      Having a timetable is different. If you make it clear to a guy (whether implied or explicit) that yes, you do intend to have sex with him at some point, he has a much bigger incentive to stick around until that happens. If he's a player, he won't stick around very long--he'll move on to a woman who'll spread her legs for him right away. And if that happens, you should be happy, because you've just dodged a bullet.

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    2. It makes me believe how important sex for men. A matter. I just think and it's not fair and don't understand if it is a big problem that make him leave or dissapear.

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  12. This is a fantastic article!

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  13. Andrew, then what are your views on this, then:
    http://www.lovepanky.com/women/dating-men-tips-for-women/how-men-fall-in-love-stages-of-love

    I thought it was pretty accurate from my experience...

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  14. I am female and by your description i fall in love more like a man.
    At first i see an attractive man i become overwhelmed with lust and become infatuated. This feeling can grow into romantic love (it has twice), but mostly it will dissolve in time (because i find out that we are not compatible in long term).
    If i do not find a man who is pursuing me incredibly attractive, no matter how compatible we may be i feel no romantic love.
    For now this has worked out very well for me :)

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  15. So how come men used to make it all the way to the alter without having sex?

    Is it because the woman was so beautiful to him that it lasted the 6-24 months of a standard engagement?

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    1. No other choice!

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    2. To Anonymous 9:09 - DITTO. You just hit the nail on the head. If women were to ever wise up and stop letting themselves be used as basically unpaid prostitutes, then I GUARANTEE you there wouldn't be nearly as many women left confused, feeling used, or wondering why their guy won't marry them. It's so simple it's almost silly.

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    3. This statement makes me think of how pathetic and seriously stupid the human race can be. Why should a man loose interest in a woman if she sleeps with him "too soon?" I see that as imaturity. If a man is just after sex, it doesn't matter if you wait one day or six months he's still going to leave and not only that, but if a man loose interest in you over time, he's going to leave then and go sniff another skirt. This statement makes men seem so shallow and stupid. Like the girl who has to hold on to her emotions because she's may scare the man a way. If a man's a dog, he's going to be a dog, whether he wait one day or six months. Some dogs like to hunt the bone, just to devour it and go on to the next, not all will skip out to a new bone when they see that woman's not giving up that bone, it's just that they don't feel like the bone's worth chasing.

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    4. Because women held out. The only thing stopping men from having sex with every attractive woman he lays eyes on is women. Now that women are holding out less and less, it's a sex buffet!

      I'm exaggerating a little but if you want to see how men would behave sexually without women putting on the brakes, just look at gay guys.

      But I'm not complaining. As far as I'm concerned, the easier it is to get sex, the better.

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  16. Hi Andrew,

    First time poster, but after reading the comments, I feel compelled to comment and say that I DO fall in love the way you are describing. It takes time for me to love/deeply trust someone, and that generally comes from his character and our developing friendship more than anything. The best relationships I have had have been with men who I viewed as friends first (though I would find out later that they had always hoped for more).

    I have to say though, that when I look at how men respond to other men, I'm not viewing them as being "pitted against" one another. I'm just looking for a man I respect, and the way he treats others and handles situations will (hopefully) leave me feeling very impressed...and intrigued.

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  17. I knew a guy that "I had grown to find handsome". When I found out that he was $60,000 in debt to a gambling habit I ended it.

    One of the first things that went through my mind was "at least he wasn't good looking".

    It was as if I was relived that my lie was over. If your not attracted, don't lie to yourself or anyone else. It s not going to work no matter what you say. Just a matter of time.

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    1. +1

      practically words to live by. I also add that nexting a guy at the first red flag. Don't wait for number 2 and trust me, if there is one ... there will be more.

      Recently had to end with a guy who was a 5 in looks, I had grown attached to, because he took me out to a crazy party ignored me and proceeded to get completely drunk. I mean I have never seen someone drink that much and he hit on other girls right in front of me. Alcoholic? no thanks. Smoker? no thanks. next.

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  18. lol im kinda paranoid now. My boyfriend and I have been together for a few years, but we were friends loooong before we started dating. however we did fool around during our friendship, so I guess maybe he did find me attractive right from the start..? But if he did, then idk why it took so long for him to ask me out! He even went after one of my close friends before we started dating! Oh well at least we're together now.

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    1. Wait? You're paranoid? That's not a good sign, it means you don't trust him, why? You had sex with him during your friendship doesn't mean he found you attractive, it could mean he would rather sleep with you than go out there to someone else and did you guys not want a relationship in the beginning? He went after your close friend? Why are you deceiving yourself with this guy, just by your mention of insecurities you don't feel remotely safe and honestly, I wouldn't either. Three years is a long time to invest into a man you don't trust. Why so long? Settling maybe?

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  19. Off Topic, when I saw this picture, it reminded me of your blog:
    http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/238/423/a4e.jpg
    It's so funny, but true, no?

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    1. LOL- if that is a 2, I am -8!

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    2. What is? Her being a 2 or my being a -8? :-)

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  20. I think the moral of the article here is this:

    Woman should invest more time on improving their physical lookings and personalities than they would invest spending on building up bonds with certain men if they want to get a man.

    So hitting the gym and toning up the body for a year is more worthwhile than invest the entire year dating a guy whose love on you may fade in the end.

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    1. Love this!!! Thank you for putting it that way!!! :)

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  21. After falling fast and getting hurt once, almost three years ago, I noticed that I have become hardened. I didn't fall as quickly in the subsequent episodes with different guys, and I was able to walk away and heal more quickly. Maybe I have learned my lessons, maybe part of my emotions is now in a perpetual dormant state. I am worried that I might not be able to feel the same way again.

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    1. I can relate with you 10000%. I have been talking to someone for almost 7 months now, and I have no anticipation of dating him whatsoever. I blame myself for being hardened over the years from broken trusts and promises.

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    2. Is it because you are not attracted to him? Sometimes we get a "friendly" vibe with someone and that is just the way it is.

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    3. It's strange, I definitely lost some attraction towards him when I knew he was into me more than I am to him. He's a great guy, many women flock to him. In a sense, what Andrew said about men will either fall for you within a month or not at all can be true for women as well.

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    4. Oh man, I'm right there with you Honey. I haven't felt anything even CLOSE to the way I felt for this one guy five years ago- I miss being younger and having a new crush every week! My last 2 boyfriends I stuck with because I liked them and I knew I was eventually moving to a new city- I was nowhere near being in love. I'm extremely picky because now I know the "level" of feelings I can have for someone, and although I'm meeting tons of wonderful, high-quality guys, they don't make me feel anything and I'm growing increasingly cynical. I refuse to settle for anything less and waste my time (or as Andrew puts it, my "most eligible years"), and neither should you, even if it's frustrating. I'll be hopeful for the both of us!

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    5. Well, your feelings are part of it but they have to be reciprocated and that is the catch for men and women being picky. They can hold out and see if they can find that partner that creates that exhilarating rush and also feels the same way.

      So, settle for the disappointing less or strive for the impossible more, or find the realistic right? That is the question. Good luck.

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    6. I miss feeling head over heels. Back then I didn't know about the leagues, the rules, dating up and down, the male mindset or even my own. It was just based on raw attraction. I also remember how I could barely drive myself home after he told me that it wasn't going to work, how I buried my teary face in the pillow for hours... Now, I don't even cry after a breakup, whether I ended it or not. Maybe this "improved [/hardened]" state of mind is what helps us identify the right mate? :)

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  22. Not sure if I am getting this right: Because men either fall for us in early stages of a relationship or not at all, we women should pay close attention before letting ourselves fall for them. That is, if we seek mutual attraction/chemistry in a relationship. If we detect a lack of enthusiasm, then we should back out and move on. Standing by and waiting for men to fall for us is most likely futile.

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  23. Great post, Andrew. I definitely think men are most influenced by looks and that generates a lot of the initial rush and he can get enough of an idea of her personality and character to have his relationship buttons pushed to want to pursue a relationship relatively soon.

    A few additional thoughts that might be of use to the readers:

    1) Women likely take longer to fall in love today because of the paradox of riches (tons of options) and because they don't need men as much economically or for physical safety so that part of their brain of thinking they need to find a man and lock him down sooner isn't operating. (I think I experienced this going to India when I met a girl on the plane that had fear of being alone in a new country she was visiting and so she wanted to stick with me and we had a fling, something I don't think would have happened if she had felt completely safe in her familiar surroundings.)

    2) Though exceptions exist, a man who is above her in overall marriage or sexual value isn't likely to feel as excited about her. However, many women are hypergamous and want a man who's both out of her league and (eventually) excited about her (e.g. Mr. Darcy in Pride & Prej.) This is the catch-22. You can have a man at your level or lower that will be excited or you can sometimes get an equal or higher-level man that isn't. I have some female friends that basically stuck with guys that weren't so interested in them and wore them down over many months or even years of emotionally-turbulent times with occasional break-ups when the guy wasn't interested enough or treating her so well. Finally they wore the guys down and got married. I imagine the men are content and do love these women but it's not the euphoric I'm in love kind.

    3) I agree that men's interest and attraction really spikes at first due to subconsciously wanting to spread his seed and the Coolidge effect (new soil to plant his seed in). From here it can go two ways. If the woman doesn't have much in common with him personality wise then he won't develop much of an emotional connection with her (besides lust) and so the relationship will kind of decay in a gradual fashion. This can also happen when the woman takes too long to decide and doesn't emotionally escalate and create that emotional, romantic, or "soul" connection that goes beyond the physical. Women need to use their brains a bit more to decide if he is commitment worthy and seems interested in her beyond sex and take the risk of trying to create an emotional bond. It's like they have a window of opportunity while his new euphoria/lust is there to show that she has the substance and disposition to also be a good long-term partner. Of course, this is fraught with danger because there are dishonest players that will fake it to have a several-month fling, but I think if most women turn off the hamster they can tell if the guy is reasonably sincere. I will add that in cases where the two really are a great match in terms of equal value and compatibility that the love in guys looking for long-term can grow more intense in the 2-4 month frame or longer as he really sees she's not just physically attractive but has the personality and other long-term traits that he's looking for and they build a connection that's more than just flesh. However, players, cads and immature men will not likely be looking for this kind of bonding so women need to find the commitment-prone men.

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    Replies
    1. Bottom line for women: do enough screening in the first few dates and decide sooner if you're really liking him and he seems like a good candidate and into you and then emotionally escalate while he's still hot for you (mostly lust and infatuation) and can build that romantic attachment (romance basically meaning the strong desire to be with one person because you are just so into them that you stop thinking about others). When men's romantic triggers get pushed it is often sooner than for women and so if she is being distant and taking too much time to figure it out he will start to feel rejected and pull back himself and that romantic seedling tree will die of starvation.

      Advice for men: keep your romantic desires in check so that they don't peak while the woman is still at her lower level of figuring it out and get's scared away. Better to have both partners' romantic desires peak at the same time so that a much stronger bond is forged.

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  24. Hi Andrew,

    Re: "A great deal of his attraction to a woman is physical, and her approximate physical beauty can be demonstrated by seeing her in a handful of outfits (or, to some degree, through photos)."

    What if the woman is literally not physically attractive (say a 3 or a 4), but he (say a 6 or 7 – depending on how he dresses) is still completely smitten with her? What would have been the trigger for attraction then? Personality, mind-blowing sex?

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    Replies
    1. Open-angle Glaucoma?

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    2. She probably isn't actually a 3 or a 4 and just has poor self-esteem. OR, he has low self-esteem and thinks he can't get a hotter girl. She probably has a great personality too, so that he has nothing else to complain about.

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    3. Thanks for your reply! I just realized I posted the follow up question below instead of here, haha.

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    4. Also, men have all different kinds of tastes. Not all men fall for the conventionally beautiful barbie doll type of girl. I have a super hot boyfriend who happens to like curvy girls like myself (yay). Also, intense chemistry can cause people to ignore traits they would otherwise find unattractive.

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  25. What if hotter girls are interested in him? Hey, what do you mean with "so that he has nothing else to compain about"?

    Interesting. I thought men were visual creatures.

    This blog is very fascinating! :-)

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  26. Hi, I have intuitively felt what Andrew wrote in this post. Which explains why most of my flings began when the guy reaches out to chase me in an obvious manner after the first meeting (or two). If there aren't any special attempts from a guy to get to know me soon after we meet, usually nothing happens.

    But I am a little confused. Is this the only way to gauge whether a guy has fallen for a girl? Coming on very strongly right from the very beginning? Are there not guys who take it slow? Or guys who do not act on their attraction toward a girl (when a girl can sense that the guy thinks she's attractive)? Are we supposed to write them off as "never going to be giddy about me"?

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    Replies
    1. "Is this the only way to gauge whether a guy has fallen for a girl? Coming on very strongly right from the very beginning?"

      No. Coming onto you strongly doesn't indicate "falling in love" but rather his level of lust.

      Are there not guys who take it slow?

      Maybe the true shy guys. You have to be patient with them. But you also have to be careful not to over-read their interest. Until they make a move, consider them friends.

      Or guys who do not act on their attraction toward a girl (when a girl can sense that the guy thinks she's attractive)?

      If a guy has no real reason to initiate contact with you (e.g., non-colleagues, non-salesmen, non-lost-tourists), you can assume they find you attractive to some degree. How great that degree is you need to be able to assess from his interactions with you. For example, a guy I waved hi to occasionally in a pool hall (but whom I wrote off as too young for me), just invited himself over to shoot pool with me. Then he spent the night making small talk with me. He was definitely interested.

      Are we supposed to write them off as "never going to be giddy about me"?

      No. You just have to be patient. Don't rush things. But if you think he's definitely a shy guy, then you ought to read Andrew's post on the Dynamics of Dating a Shy Guy. But if you're not sure if he's shy or just not that into you. Let him drive. There's no hurry. In the meantime, pay attention to the other guys who are initiating contact with you.

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    2. Thank you Karmic Equation. That cleared things up to ultimately conclude that there is no one clear way to go about all guys or relationships ;-) My takeaway from this all is to always be on my toes. In my opinion no girl wants a man who doesn't treat her right. I don't need a guy who is particularly dizzy about me, but he needs to treat me with respect.

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    3. Speaking as a somewhat shy guy, my best relationships have developed from being friends with someone first, through a shared activity. Dating people online, say Match.com, usually it's just a couple of dates, if they even respond to my messages.

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    4. I'm a shy girl and I agree with you Joe. I have tried online dating but it just feels too contrived to me. If you've been speaking to someone for quite awhile online there's too much pressure and high expectations about a potential relationship when you eventually do meet up. I'd much rather meet someone in real life and let the friendship/relationship develop naturally from there.

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    5. Along the same lines, what do you all think of getting to know people in groups (maybe with shared activities or not) & a minimum of formal dating?

      I saw an article in the Huffington Post describing how Millennials have “reinvented romance” & pretty much done away with dating, & the author advocates that women develop a “gaggle” of guy friends/romantic prospects.

      Back when I was single (just when the internet was taking off & before any social media or cell phones/texting), this was what I did. I loved hanging out with guys, & I found that I could pretty much filter/screen them without dating.

      No need to break up if a guy wasn’t right. Which meant that I could also retain the good ones as friends (since I didn’t get romantic if I realized we weren’t right for each other, though I admit some pining on my part).

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    6. @Jo and Mo - Glad I'm not alone in thinking this. I love meeting people but the contrived nature of online dating is something I find overwhelming.

      @scribe - I think your idea is interesting in principle but it hasn't worked for me in practice. It causes some stress in my life if I have too many male hangers-on who I won't ever reciprocate feelings for. I'm also at risk of looking like a coquette if I spend too much time with men. It's hard to strike a balance.

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    7. scribe, I'm not sure about the whole "reinventing romance" thing. I'd be curious to read the HuffPost article. There was this NYT article recently about men's changing dating styles frustrating women: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/fashion/the-end-of-courtship.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

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    8. Lucy, I think the problem with online dating is that everyone there is all there for the same reason: to find love (or sex, or both). That puts a lot of pressure on people...it's like, "Well, I gotta find a person with [all of the criteria in your list], and then I gotta know if s/he is right for me, and I gotta do it within a couple of dates, otherwise Mr/Ms. Right who's still out there might get snapped up by someone else." Whereas when you get to know someone socially, there's no pressure to get to know each other so quickly; you can just let that happen organically.

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    9. Joe & others, I'd be curious to hear more about your thoughts on the Huff Post article

      and a related article.

      The author is actually quoted in the NYTimes article.

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    10. Well, as far as the second article, I agree with the myths, but I do find that I require a certain amount of dating "formality."

      As far as the first article, I think that younger people do have more fluid relationships, but I'm not sure I agree with the whole "gaggle" concept.

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    11. Before reading the Huffington Post article, I assumed that cultivating a 'gaggle' would involve collecting male friends, which isn't something I'm inclined to do. The initial premise is sound - any man you come into contact with who happens to be single, should be on your radar. However I believe that relying on a 'gaggle' might give a woman the perception that she has more options than she really does, and might promote a false impression of success with the opposite sex. I don't always relish attention from men if isn't the attention I actually want. Further, the methods that the author advocate could only be well-practiced by a woman with a good level of self-esteem.
      I identify with Jessica Massa's point about the fact that most interactions with the opposite sex aren't labelled with 'date' or are particularly formal. I have never had a relationship with a man I've met in a formal setting. They have all been men I got to know over a period of time through social groups. This is something I'm used to anyway because in Britain, it's not all that common to date in a formal way. I don't have to get a dinner invitation to know a man is interested, and have never been on a dinner date before.
      I agree with what is said about showing your cards to a man in a way in which he still thinks he's making the move. That's important. It's rare to find a man with such faultless confidence, that he'd ask you out without much encouragement - so no need to shut yourself down in order to get him to 'prove' himself - that's how you turn men off.
      It's right not to put all your eggs in one basket or live by a dating script. However you have to play it well so you don't come off as desperate. In general think it's good to consider the romantic potential of more than one man at a time, at least because it softens any feeling of rejection. It might stop you from chasing some fantasy and wasting time as well.

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    12. Jessica Massa’s article basically advocates changing one’s mindset (which is a lot of what Andrew advises, except he has more specifics attached to his guidance).

      Rather than worry about whether you are fitting into some mainstream idea of dating & romance, get to know guys & feel comfortable around them. (Maybe this comes more naturally for those of us who have brothers.)

      Getting to know men informally is like an extended version of a night out (& social groups being a good alternative to those of us who don’t frequent bars), but you are increasing your chances because you have more than one opportunity to chat with any given man.

      To avoid the unrealistic expectations that Lucy brings up, rather than worrying about any particular guy, look at informal situations as good practice for making conversation & getting used to being around guys in general, in a low-pressure way. If a specific guy doesn’t pursue you as a romantic prospect, it’s not a big deal, because you’re developing your options.

      Meanwhile, a girl can shore up her self-esteem by cultivating her own interests, taking charge of her social life (a good route is getting into hosting dinner parties & developing cooking & organizing skills), & as Andrew advises, just generally working on herself.

      Andrew’s definition of not initiating contact probably allows being friendly & chatting with guys in group situations. I would also guess that if you know a guy as part of a group, then inviting a group over for a meal is safe to do.

      I agree with Lucy that it’s nice get acquainted with men over a period time through social groups. I cringe at recalling a date where I met a guy at a party & then he asked me out. But I was so nervous about the prospect of going on a formal date, that I don’t think I ever relaxed enough to let my everyday personality show. (It’s a wonder I managed to date & get married, as I was pretty clueless back then.)

      For me, informal settings = being relaxed & comfortable, which would allow another person to see my authentic self. Then again (keeping in mind the initial premise of the above blog entry) it’s difficult to know if this gradual getting-to-know-you period means that a guy has already assessed you & found you lacking, & has therefore moved onto other romantic prospects… So going back to one of the gaggle article’s points: don’t invest too much energy in any one guy, at least initially.

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  27. Thanks for this post Andrew.

    I have a question: how should we know when a man falls in love with us then? A guy can genuinely seem crazy about you but it can turn out to only be lust. If they fall in love so fast, how can we know if it is real and not just lust? I had an ex-boyfriend who told me he loved me within 2 weeks, but then lost interest after 2 months (and I didn't sleep with him). What to do?

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  28. Hi, interesting post. I can relate to the way you think women fall in love since I'm having an experience like that at the moment. I didn't find this guy unattractive in the beginning, I just didn't really notice him that way (so it's not a matter of settling for someone you're not attracted to as some people mentioned in their comments). He is a work colleague and I just saw him in that way (I only started the job a few months ago, and we didn't see each other that much). Then when I went walking with him and some others, he offered me his hand a lot to help me up and down, and for some reason after all the hand-holding when I went home that day I couldn't stop thinking about him. Since then there has been a completely different vibe between us, more playful and flirty. But I'm not sure whether or that's because I'm different around him now, maybe he just senses that I'm into him now. He seems interested but he hasn't asked me out, so maybe he's not. He is acting very playful with me at the moment, much more than before, and he pays me a lot of attention, but he could also just like me as a friend. If your theory is true, then it is probably too late for him. Anyway, in general, it's not great news if women fall in love slowly and men fall in love quickly. I for one run away if a guy I'm not attracted to comes on too strong (I mean in terms of wanting to see me too often or looking too lovesick). Which means I (and maybe other women like me) will then end up falling for the one who doesn't come on too strong, but then according to this post that's the one who isn't interested. Hence all the women online asking, is he into me, and usually if you have to ask, he's not. A lot of women have commented on this post, but what about the men? Do you always fall in love quickly? Any of you ever developed feelings over time for someone you weren't interested in from the beginning? If you weren't interested in a woman but you saw her looking especially good one day, would you think: maybe...?

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  29. This is very interesting, because I actually thought otherwise. I felt like I was in love with my boyfriend way before he was with me, and I actually felt that he started being crazy about me only at the one year mark and ever since.

    How does this work? He was always perfectly lovely, sweet, funny, but in the first year or so, i didnt think he was in love with me at all. But according to what you say here, he must have been? and what about me? I know it took me time to fall in love with him *properly*. We have just passed our second anniversary (of dating not marriage) and i feel that over the last 5 months we have been in the crazy, giggle, head over heels honeymoon-period which i thought should have happened earlier? Doesnt make sense? What does everyone think?

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  30. Hmm, I’ve been thinking.

    Just as it’s the man’s job to get sex out of the woman, it is the woman’s job to get commitment out of the man.

    So when women complain about men not manning up or being scared of commitment, it’s not the man’s failure, it’s the woman’s.

    The responsibility to get what you want out of the relationship rests with you.

    http://www.returnofkings.com/7543/american-girls-have-no-game

    Or, (following from linked post above), put another way, its the woman’s job to have girl-game to get commitment from the man just as it’s the man’s job to have man-game to get sex from the woman.

    Funnily enough alot of man game comes down to exhibiting a masculine behaviour and mindset and girl-game comes down to exhibiting a feminine behaviour and mindset.

    Western civ, re-inventing the wheel on the proper norms of interaction between men and women. Thanks marxists!

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    Replies
    1. That's a really eye-opening article...

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    2. That return of kings article hits some important points, but I disagree that the girl he uses as an example is a good one. The examples of things American girls did wrong are spot on, but waiting on a man hand and foot and being laid back about his lack of interest is not the best strategy for a woman - it just makes life pleasant for the man.

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    3. @Andrew, then how should a girl toe the line between playing hard to get and offering the full panoply of her feminine sweetness?

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    4. I would also love to hear your response to this Andrew. How I've been handling it giving him all the "feminine sweetness" when we're together, but never doing more for him than he does for me, and occasionally being unavailable most likely making his mind wander if I'm with other guys. Is this right?

      We're both quite competitive in the dating world and have our options open. I'm pretty independent and was not looking for anyone to date till I'm done with school, but this guy grew on me and it's certainly a hard balence to strike.

      In response to the original post, I mostly agree. He was certainly interested from date 1 while I was uncertain until maybe date 5-6. The quality which intrigued me enough to accept those dates even when i was unsure about him which i don't typically do was his vulnerability, exactley as described in the book models.

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    5. The difference between sex and commitment is the amount of time one must invest in seeking it. It would be an unfair imbalance if the roles were distributed this way.

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  31. I agree in general, but there are exceptions. As a 17-year-old young man (years ago), I ended up falling hardest for a girl a couple months in-- I initially considered her just a fling, and a little while later decided she wasn't my type... then *BOOM*, one day she was the only thing I wanted in the world, and it stuck. I still think about her sometimes.

    Part of this was almost certainly due to my inexperience, but I just wanted to point out that it can happen.

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    Replies
    1. Do you remember what happened exactly that made your feelings change like that?

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  32. I'm not sure if I agree with this. I've experienced (as a female) and seen (in men) SO MANY exceptions. Actually with my own boyfriend I think it may have been the opposite. He was less attentive to me at first (though very attracted) and I could literally tell right up until he recently told me so that he was falling in love with me, and now he acts like it. He is extremely attentive, patient, understanding and shows in obvious ways that he's even more attracted than he used to be. I think I personally stayed the same throughout our relationship thus far (equally interested/attentive/attracted/etc.). I'd say it's worked out well thus far.

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  33. Does this apply to all the guys? What if you started as friends and eventually developed romantic feelings for each other?

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  34. @Andrew, or anyone, please someone help!

    I have two men that I am seeing and Man1 has expressed wanting exclusivity but I said I need more time to get to know him. I take dating seriously because I am looking for a life partner to have kids with and be my best friend.

    Both men have the personality traits, common interests, good jobs, and home ownership, that I find very appealing.

    Man1 is everything I am looking for but I do not feel a strong attraction to him. He is about average, a 5 (chubby, baggier clothes, glasses). With working out and a new style sense he can be improved to be a 6 but that is a lot of work for the improvement. He has expressed interest in kids, and in general presents himself to be a good life partner, provider, and parent. Everything is pretty much perfect but I found I do not look at him much and don't feel excitement when we kiss.

    Man2 is about the same as me, above average in attractiveness. I would say we are 7s and he is physically more my preference (thin, athletic, clean cut and well dressed). He also has everything I want in a mate (except kids topic has not come up yet). I feel fireworks when we kiss, we told each other we like each other, and he is actively pursuing me and planning future dates. He is more of a suave gentleman but I do not get the sense that he is a player, in fact I feel sincerity. Man1 is sweet but not suave.

    I feel the pressure of time because Man1 has already expressed his wishes for exclusivity. How much time can I expect him to wait for my answer? What can I do here? I feel Man1 is a sure thing and good choice but I don't feel that strong attraction. Man2 is riskier but physical chemistry is amazing.

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    1. I'd investigate Man2. Has he introduced you to his friends/family? Does he say he'd like to get married and have kids? Keep looking for reasons to rule out Man2. Why is he a riskier choice?

      Think logically, not emotionally. We woman often go with our hearts instead of our heads and often wind up making a mistake because of it. I think two months to make your decision is long enough to keep Man1 waiting.

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    2. I think your age has something to do with it too--there was a discussion in the comments of another article on this site about women in their early 20s and how they can afford to be pickier for longer than older women, if they want children or have an ideal timeline (ie kids by 30). If you have enough time in your ideal timeline, I agree with Melanie--look into Man2.

      In the meantime, why not take Man1 shopping? Or ask him to be your gym buddy? He may get the hint and be more attractive to you which would help him either gain you or someone else if you guys don't work out as a couple.

      Delete
    3. original poster here, sorry for being anon..

      Thanks ladies, the men and I are in our late twenties. I met them through online dating. I believe Man2 is "riskier" because he has not expressed desires for commitment yet but I have been dating him a shorter time. And through his online profile I can see that he is open to marriage/wants monogamy and definitely wants children but "not soon". I am curious if he means not this year, not within 3 years, not within 5 years? Is there any way to ask or bring up without sounding crazy?

      I am working on tactfully seeing if I can bring about some physical improvements to man1, not because I want to change him, but to see if that opens things up to me feeling more attraction.

      I guess I posted this here because the blog post claims that women can become attracted to their partner over time. I honestly would be very happy if I end up with either of these men, because they are each great! And they have both shown early-stage interest and initiation. I think only time can tell, I just don't want to lose man1 DUE to timing because I took too much time deciding (wrong reason to lose him)! And I don't want to make the wrong choice.

      I spent so long meeting men I had little interest in and now THIS happens, not sure if its a blessing or curse..

      -2boys1me

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    4. You have 2 men you are seeing...you have a serious problem...like an ostrich!,with its head stuck in sea sand!!!

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  35. I have felt it and became a muse or at time a femme fatal but never read it on paper in written form. I love your blog, the topics and articles must be read by every woman and man- Good job!!

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  36. Hi Andrew, I just started reading your blog and I appreciate all the useful information and insight. But a lot of it is very disheartening.

    It makes me wonder what the point is in dating at all? Why bother with men if they will always want to fuck every other woman (his restraint is only out of obligation for you - who wants to feel like an obligation?). He'll always be disappointed with the way you look without makeup (that IS who I am, I'm sorry it's so disappointing). He'll be disappointed as I age and will always lust for younger women or variety.

    It's just very sad that the bulk of what men value in women is fleeting and superficial. And don't tell me that personality plays a big role in it, because even when men stick it out with their wives and "grow old together" they are still lusting and yearning for someone else. Your blog may give good advice for securing a husband, so that you can reproduce. But beyond having children, I have no idea why I would want to have a man now knowing what really goes on in their heads. :( Dating/marriage seems pointless now.

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  37. Do be sweet and nurturing. Don't gain weight. Do provide him w sex almost constantly. Do wear your makeup. Don't talk too much about your ambitions. Etc. There are a lot of rules for women to follow. It seems like maintaining attraction with a man is a very delicate thing that can be lost very easily. And if you don't do any of the above, he'll move on. Seriously, what's the point in dating again if I'm only good for one or two things and he'll probably be fantasizing about those things with any and every woman anyway? :(

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  38. I do not believe this whole "men are superficial" theory. More often than not, it is used as an excuse by women not to put in effort (physical or mental).

    Do men like nice looking girls? Yes. No news there. Do women like nice looking men? Oh yeah. I believe there is no point in pinpointing mens' negatively perceived traits if we, women also have them. Do they like sex? Do we like sex? Sure. Does desperation turns them off?? and us? yes, both. Do we both want to get laid? Sorry ladies, if you disagree, you're lying.

    The point is, there ar e much more things about men that are similar to women than different. Eventually every healthy minded man wants the same as every healthy minden woman: to settle , make a family, and have children. Whoever doesn't have this desire, is either late (it will come) or broken (may heal, may not). But the vast majority isn't like this.

    But men still have "committment problems", right? They still "only want us for sex", right? They are "shallow and emotionless" etc etc etc , right? Well, think about it ladies, have we been making life and relationships easy for them? With feminism losing its original purpose and having turned into this monstrosity of a bloody joke, with women getting upset if a man opens the door for them, women dressing up like whores in the name of "I am dressing for myself and i do whatever i want", women behaving like men in every way, women sleeping around in the name of freedom and feminism.... is it a wonder that they feel a bit out of sync? Is it surprising that they value women less? Is it surprising that in the age of "loreal - i am worth it" and women's magazines and equality seminars and all-empowering hoodaa coming at you from every angle, men are a bit on the back foot, and in general maybe not so keen or fast to commit as they would have been say 50 years ago?

    When everything is about how women have rights, and allowances, and frankly, lets admit, we are positively discriminated against - is it a wonder that men no longer feel like it's their role to build and keep and protect a family - which is the main reason they would ever commit? Aren't we making it bloody hard for guys? Are we cutting them any slack?








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  39. I am reading the posts here - "why bother if men will always want to fuck every other woman" etc and want to slit my wrists figuratively speaking at how much some people just dont get it. Men want a woman. And women, in the real sense, as increasingly hard to find.

    And thats where all Andrew's advice comes in. Long hair, less assertivity, soft feline movements, soft skin, subtle makeup, heels, skirts, colours, soft-spokenness... hourglass figure or the illusion of it, breasts, the behaviour of being the hunt, not the hunter... letting him put up the picture on the wall, doing dinner and being a good cook... and the list goes on... - these are all traits that traditionally distinguish a woman from a man.

    And that is why these are so attractive to men. But today's man does not find this easily. Is it a wonder that he is confused and goes to fuck around? Girls, put your hands on your hearts. If you were a man - try to imagine, try to look at this as an outsider - a successful, good looking, emotionally stable man - how many girls do you know that you would actually seriously go for, and pick as your partner in life? Would you date yourself? Would you propose to yourself? Would you marry yourself? Honestly? I was recently thinking about it (as a proposal might be on the cards, but who knows) and seriously, i am not sure i would. I am not sure I would not pick someone else instead. If I am objective. Think about it.

    You need to be the woman where the man thinks he cannot get any better. Ever. Then he will commit. Then he will not fuck around. Then he will marry you and have your children. But for this you need to be a woman and not today's feminist, twisted, agressive, overly opinionated monster of a creature. Which, good god, so many women are.




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    1. @Erika "You need to be the woman where the man thinks he cannot get any better. Ever. Then he will commit. Then he will not fuck around. Then he will marry you and have your children. But for this you need to be a woman and not today's feminist, twisted, agressive, overly opinionated monster of a creature. Which, good god, so many women are."

      I think a lot of women do get it, but wherein the frustration lies is when she IS what he wants, but her man still wants to boink other women, even if he never actually cheats, just the fact that he's going to be tempted most of the time, can understandably make a girl feel vulnerable, helpless and demoralized.

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    2. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if a man has "CONDITIONS" that he requires of a woman in order to love her ....HE DOESN'T LOVE HER. STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR PIGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -ERIKA HATLA

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  40. sorry, the post was too long, had to break it.

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  41. Lol this makes no sense. What that man felt was not love just attraction. Nowadays many women go for looks and get bored after a few month too. What a stupid post that is

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  42. Lol this makes no sense. What that man felt was not love just attraction. Nowadays many women go for looks and get bored after a few month too. What a stupid post that is

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  43. I need Help.

    I have been with a guy for 15 months and in terms of our relationship its very easy, no dramas and we get on so well. He cant fault me and I cant fault him. I recently told him that I love him but he doesn't feel the same. However when we met he had just got his heartbroken and occasionally makes comments on how painful it was and he cant/doesn't feel he can do it again. But he has made comments on that we have a future etc. I'm confused as to what to do! I broke up with him a a few months ago, only to get back together 2 weeks later because he couldn't not have me in his life and ice versa. He makes comments that he isn't going to do the love thing and how important is that to that a relationship needs it.
    On reading this article, I am wondering, if he is too scared to fall in love again, can he prevent himself from doing so. Or is the reality that maybe I am just not someone he will fall in love with. If this is the case why is he still with me?
    Any ideas?

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    1. Wow. I just experienced something like the same thing. I can't tell you what to do, but in my situation, it did not work out. My guy was engaged to someone before me. They had problems and he asked her to move out. Six months later he called her and wanted to get back together and she had already moved on. In his mind, he had screwed up and lost. He had told me he loved her from the start. He never wanted to be without her. I was probably the 3rd person he dated after her and the longest. I, unlike what this article said about women falling gradually, fell almost instantly for him. (Just on a side note, I've never been one to date someone I'm not attracted to, just to see. People tell me I'm shallow, but for me, attraction is a huge part of the chemistry. I know looks might fade, but you need that from the start at least, for me.) Scary kind of...however, I had a gut feeling he didn't feel the same from the beginning. Foolishly, I kept seeing him because I thought he would end up falling for me, since he did seem to genuinely like me and we really enjoyed each other's company. Over the course of about 3 years, we broke up about 2-3 times because I just wasn't receiving the same as I was giving. Each time he called me back. It ended up not working out because I finally realized I deserved more and would not take him back and then he met someone else about a week later. Within 3 weeks he took her to meet his parents and is now talking about proposing after not even having known her 6 months...which is why I searched for terms leading me to this blog. What Andrew writes here is the truth. I have wasted so many years with different men waiting for them to "fall in love" with me and it just never happened. If they aren't in love almost from the very start...like he says..it isn't going to happen. It make take some guys a little longer to realize and figure out in their minds the answers to their questions, but guys don't usually waste the kind of time women do. Live and learn. I do know one thing, whether I find love or not, I refuse to settle for less than what I deserve.

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  44. Best post on Internet regarding this subject I've ever seen,
    I'm a guy and I am deeply in love with a Woman I've seen online. she's in another country.
    I cannot eat, sleep or focus on anything during day, her thoughts are all over me, yet she doesn't show much of interest and reply to my messages very late and not more than a line.
    I'm extremely in love with her, and willing to do anything in this world to have her.
    Even if one day she ends up living on the street as homeless, I still want to be with her.
    she has a long descriptive profile and her pictures caught my attention, she's simple, NOT drop-dead-gorgeous by any means. I can't control my feelings for her...
    I hope I'd be able to convince her to meet me sometime soon...

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  45. While i agree that men and women experience live differently i have to disagree with the implied notion that they are equally ok. Men or ppl that fall in love wihout knowing someone are wmotionally immature and susceptible to impulsivity - fast hookups and fast breakups. As my pastor says , u cant love someone you dont know, and you cant know someone you don't spend time with. Anything intense initial feelings are not love but lust. If a man meets a beautiful woman on a rare week where shes vivacious and fun he might think hes in love and propose being together. He will equally become dissillusioned when he finds out shes mostly boring and calm. Or worse hes blinded by her beauty and is incapable of seeing her complexities. When she reveals herself to be a complex human being that experiences the highs and lows of life like everyone else he will fall out of love, which is why so many women write to this blog looking for answers as to why their guy who was so gung ho in love in the beginning is now distant just a few months later. Its not that the women fundamentally changed its that he didnt fully know her. He was in love with a piece of her. Women tend to be emotionally smarter because we are given an emotional toolkit from early on whilst men are taught not to show emotion. Women, steer clear of the guys who come on strong after one or two dates. Guys like that are emotionally immature and cant handle complex human emotions. They think that whatever they feel is right be it love or the desire to throw in the towel. Again, you cannot love someone you dont know, and u cannot know someone you dont spend qt with. Actually, although i dont know brad pitt im physically attracted to him and he makes me feel good, so i guess im in love with him. ^sarcasm^. Actually the 12 yr old version of me did think that way, but i was emotionally immature back then. Carry on :)

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  46. How does this fit in with the old saying that women know in a few minutes if they will ever sleep with a man or not? Many women say that saying is true but this blog says women a lot of times start to feel attraction over time. O_o

    Could it be two separate things at two separate times in their life meaning: attraction right away if younger and not ready to settle vs. attraction over time when she is ready to settle.

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  47. My boyfriend says he dont love me but he cares about me and wants to have sex with me....its not happening. What do you think?

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  48. Oh no. This is exactly what I've feared. I have wondered if this was the case, as it seems that men tend to know what they want relatively quickly, and go for it if they are interested, whereas they don't seem to pursue women that do not interest them from the get-go.
    I do also believe that there are some men who may wait, or could gradually become attracted, but that is more rare...just as the women who fall quickly.
    It's hard to relate to this through personal experience as I do not engage in dating, and am that type of person who kind of just admires from afar, never pursuing and simultaneously not engaging enough to be pursued.
    The one relationship I have had, I was attracted to him right away (oddly, I was a kid then so it probably doesn't count anyway) and we did not get together until much later. I misjudged his character, also he kept many aspects of his personality hidden...things were not working out and so we both held on much too long.

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  49. i will say that is is not true because there are many of us straight men today looking to meet a good woman, but when we will try to approach the one that we would really like to meet, they are very nasty to us and then will walk away and tell us not to bother them. women are much more nastier these days, and i even had one curse at me for trying to start a conversation with her. oh by the way, i didn't do anything wrong for this to happen to me. since much more women are gay nowadays, that may have something to do with it since there are many of us straight men looking for love.

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    1. That sounds really, really horrible but a lot of women and men lack maturity and their actions here ay more about them than they do about you. Rest assured there are lots of nice women looking to meet straight, single men. I am one of them. You jut have to keep your head up, have faith and persist. x

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    2. most of the women today are just so very mean and nasty, especially when they have to curse at us men for trying to start a conversation with the one that we would really like to meet. i don't expect to get cursed at by a woman that i really wanted to meet, and i was very shocked when it happened to me. a woman has to be a real low life for doing that, and that is why it is very hard for many of us very serious men looking to meet a good woman to have a relationship with, and it hurts more to see so many very lucky men and women that were very fortunate to have met one another and have a family like i certainly would had wanted too. i am at an age now that i should had been settled down with a family, instead of going out all the time and wasting the time, money, gas, and ware and tare on my car which would had been easier for me if i had met the right woman from the very beginning. i was married at one time by the way before she cheated on me, and i was a very caring and loving husband that was very much committed to her as well. since much more women do cheat today, well that certainly makes it much harder meeting a good one now. what is very sad is, i have a friend that had his wife leave him for another woman which he was a very good husband before this happened to him. now i just go out and hope for the best. PEACE, and thank you for your support.

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  50. So if a guy is luke-warm with you in the beginning (perhaps using for sex) or just hanging out with you as a friend, they will never change and fall for you later? And so you're best to break it off immediately than hold onto hope?

    What about the couples I know that began as a casual hookup and then later fell for each other and got married? Maybe that's rare but it happens...

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    1. best be with a man who's nuts about you from the very beginning.

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  51. Also I'd like to add that if guys don't fall in love gradually, then they are certainly able to fall out of love gradually, as most relationships seem to fizzle out eventually.

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  52. I really like this article..
    fits exactly of what happened with me.

    At fall in love..gradually.but deeply... and my ex bf. just leave me.. and broke up with me when I was in my best time... the more I love him.... the more he takes away.. was my 1st. bf. I am 27 years old.

    I thought we was serious and commit with me... b/c he is 34. but I was a fool. pretending he was the one.

    He broke up with me 4 months ago..and I feel very bad..in my emotional,mental health...
    People says that my feelings of sadness will pass soon!
    I hope so!



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  53. I met him on a sports site, never done anything like that before. Immediately hit it off, just SO similar. He's older, has a kid and travels a ton. I'm afraid because I love the way he thinks, he seems to 'get' me and vice versa. We've only texted and communicated on this sport site, I'm secretly nervous because I don't know if we'll ever meet.

    I'm not looking for love, I'm running from it. I don't want to ever fall again, I've been abused by every man I've ever gotten close too. We will chat for hours upon hours and have the best time! Just being goofballs and explaining our lives. I've never been so taken by any man in my life, yet I'm secretly scared that he's this 'mirage'.

    He's told me in several different ways, at several different times that I'm perfect for him and that he wants to one day marry me. I'm a good looking female who has men throwing themselves at me in my own town but I'm falling for a man 6 years older who lives half a country away. I'm just so scared, I want to go see him but I also want to get to know him better. It hasn't even been 2 weeks! I've told him things about myself that no other human being knows, things that I've hid from my whole life. I feel comfortable and I feel a deep connection, I love his sense of humor and the way he communicates. He's like the older male version of myself in many ways, It's uncanny.

    He always says 'life's a blind corner' and I haven't told him this but I thought I was the only person who ever said that. I just worry about his stability and how dependable he is in the real world. I have no doubt that he is fully capable and smart though it's not always easy to follow through. For us to be together he'd need to switch careers and traveling is all he knows. It's like I'm certain I've met my soulmate but I can't reach him and due to my past I'm afraid of the consequences If I do let go and fall completely.

    I need to go workout and release this feeling of helplessness. Am I the only girl in the world who doesn't want to be caught?

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  54. I've joined this site because www.globogirls.com mainly because I wanted to organize a cool trip. But it was awesome when I found that you can actually find a travel mate. There are plenty of handsome men out there. It really helps if you're not looking for something serious.

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  55. I was searching something else and I found this nice article but after reading half of the comments I feel like my duty to share my thoughts...

    So all the scared ladies storing their feelings inside them like gas compressor, I have a golden advice for you....

    Why so scared to hold your feelings from guy, tell him crystal and clear you have feelings for him, if his love is so weak that your expression will fade it away, let it fade away, its just not worth it.

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  56. men don't "love" women. they are not "capable" of loving a woman. it's all lust for them. -Erika

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    1. THE COMMENT ABOVE IS SPAM POSTED BY A SEXIST IDIOT NAMED ERIKA HATLA

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  57. men want to be able to continue being perverted pigs...that is all this post is about. just another attempt at excusing men for being pigs and dogs. Women are CAPABLE OF UNCONDITIONAL LOVE ...and THEY PRACTICE IT...IF MEN ARE CAPABLE OF IT (WHICH I DOUBT) THEY DON'T PRACTICE IT. -Erika Hatla

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    1. THE COMMENT ABOVE IS SPAM POSTED BY A SEXIST IDIOT NAMED ERIKA HATLA

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  58. And it isn't just in their relationships with WOMEN...it's also in their relationships with their CHILDREN PARENTS and if they are bosses, their employees. NO ONE IS EVER GOOD ENOUGH FOR THEM.

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    1. THE COMMENT ABOVE IS SPAM POSTED BY A SEXIST IDIOT NAMED ERIKA HATLA

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  59. Men are always trying to "improve" their women, so they can show them off to their asshole friends and brag and say see what i have...they treat women like cars...AND ITS BULLSHIT!

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    1. THE COMMENT ABOVE IS SPAM POSTED BY A SEXIST IDIOT NAMED ERIKA HATLA

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  60. AND their children, poor things, most of their dads don't even give a fuck about them anymore...but the ones that do STICK AROUND (like it's some hard thing for them to care for their wife or kid)...they are ASSHOLES the whole time they are there. the kids a burden and never good enough and the wife is a burden and never good enough.

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    1. THE COMMENT ABOVE IS SPAM POSTED BY A SEXIST IDIOT NAMED ERIKA HATLA

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  61. MEN are just outright DICKS! it's WOMEN that do all the loving. they love the asshole men, they love and take care of the parents in old age, they love the children...WOMEN LOVE men don't love anyone but themselves. -Erika Hatla

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    1. THE COMMENT ABOVE IS SPAM POSTED BY A SEXIST IDIOT NAMED ERIKA HATLA

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  62. And the thing is you just proved it in this post. WOMEN CAN LEARN TO LOVE EVEN THE ONES SHE DON'T HAVE ANY ATTRACTION (LUST) FOR....WHILE MEN ARE ONLY CAPABLE OF LIKING A WOMAN THEY ARE ATTRACTED TO and THAT FIT INTO WHAT HE WANTS (selfish). The only man i've ever known that wasn't like this is my uncle who married a not so pretty girl who was sick and he ACTUALLY DID stay with her because he actually DID LOVE HER and he literally spent his whole life taking care of her (since she was sick) and when she died...HE WAS MISERABLE...because HE LOVED HER SOOOO MUCH and MISSED HER SO MUCH!!!!!!! NOW THAT IS LOVE. and i've only seen ONE MAN ever give that type of unconditional love in my life...not to mention he was also a REALLY REALLY GOOD DAD to his adopted kids one died when he was young and the other is going to inherit all my uncles land...that's an UNCONDITIONAL LOVING MAN FOR YOU. SO IT'S POSSIBLE...YOU GUYS ARE JUST TOO BIG OF ASSHOLES TO STOP BEING SELFISH CREEPY JERKS AND DO IT!!!!! -Erika Kathleen Hatla

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    1. well you're just a sad little bastard mother fucker who can't let go of grudges. blaming the other sex for your own selfishness and failure is just sad. Your life must be really fucked up... Shouting on the internet about how you were'nt able to get guys is just sad really. Go cry yourself to sleep or something, nobody wants you here.

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  63. maybe the reason I KNOW you guys are just ASSHOLES is because i have experienced what TRUE LOVE and UNCONDITIONAL LOVE of a man looks like AND NONE YOU MOTHERFUCKERS HAVE IT!

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    1. THE COMMENT ABOVE IS SPAM POSTED BY ERIKA HATLA

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  64. Erika: relax. You are stressing me out.

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  65. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for the advice. I will definitely pass on to all my single friends :)

    F/43

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  66. This is completely backwards from everything I've even experienced

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  67. Ok so i would love to have your opinion Andrew.
    I now have a relationship for almost 3 months. They guy i am with tried to hook up with me in november but i still had a boyfriend, then in december we broke up and in late februari we started seeing each other. In the beginning he said he didnt want to get emotional engaged cause he was going to emigrate to the Australia, me living in Germany. Then we started dating, he asked me to be his girlfriend, said there were feelings, but he wasnt in love yet. Now he is still in Germany and not planning to leave (he was supposed to go in may) and says i am one of the reasons.. Now he is saying he is falling for me and he is a bit in love.. Isnt this falling in love slowly? Or just nice words? Can you explain?!

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  68. I don't agree with the article

    I'm a woman but I don't fall in love gradually at all, if I don't like the guy from the begining he can forget me as a lover ... we can be friends but nothing more

    I guess we are all different

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    1. The article isn't about you specifically.

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  69. Hey everyone don't listen to the comments with the words below that say:

    "THE COMMENT ABOVE IS SPAM POSTED BY A SEXIST IDIOT NAMED ERIKA HATLA"

    its just another sexist female trying to shout at her computer for all the problems and anger she has. Please ignore her, this world has no space for ignorant people like her.

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  70. Is it ok to date a guy who initially attempted to hit on my girlfriend?

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    1. Do you want to date him? Does he want to date you? If the answer to both questions is "yes", then why they hell not? Are you afraid he likes your girlfriend more than you, or that you're his second choice? Maybe after hitting on her he decided she wasn't his type and you are.

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    2. yes i feel like i am his 2nd choice event though we both dating. should i bring this up?

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    3. Did your friend reject him, or did he just break off his pursuit?

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    4. I think he was trying to hit on my friend at the club because she spoke to him initially. He then went up to her and said something and then she said something back and pointed me out and he came over and spoke to me. that was how it started

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  71. i have been with my man for 2 1/2 yrs the first 6 mnths he was not honest with me...he did not want to be in a relationship but kept me around and cheated...i left for a few weeks then came home a month later he said he wanted to be with me and purposed....now its been ten mnths since then i had complete trust for him thaught he was bein faithful then we moved to his hme town only too find out he has tried to hook up with his ex numerous times and hard tellin what else or who else he been talkin to he gets mad when i try to talk about im so lost cuz he says he loves me and he is sorry but im crushed and dont kno what to do or if he even loves me feels like everthing from day 1 has been a lie.....please help!!!he has taken on the daddy role to my 5 yr. old we have so much invested in this relationship...any advise or suggestions???

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    1. I know how you feel. I went out with a guy for that amount of time who lied to me about his ex and had me thinking she was in love with him and didn't want him to be happy, but what he was trying to cover up was the fact that he'd cheated on me. He proposed to me to cover that lie up and also because he felt insecure about being in a different state than I was at the time. Well, as miranda lambert says the truth comes out a little at a time and we ended up splitting up. If he cheated on you in the first six months, there was no reason for you to go back. If you keep accepting his BS, then he'll keep coming back. You're the girl he knows will be there. If he gets mad for you bringing it up, he's lying to begin with. He doesn't love you and listen to your instincts. It can be hard getting out when you love someone but you have to put that love aside and make that move without them. If he's cheating now, he will be cheating then and he put that ring on your finger to buy him more time so that he could do what he want, while you seeming to be oblivious, but you're not. Your heart knows the truth. Listen to it and if it hurts, that's ok because pain always brings about healing in one from or another. Don't let him treat you like crap when you are worth way more than that.

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  72. All you need to attract her, make her laugh and always listen what she is speaking instead of keep on telling about yourself.. Good Luck :-)

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  73. Very insightful. This is why I always look at my female friends funny when they complain about not finding a romantic movie-style love of their life. He's that dude who you kicked to the curb because he texted you too many times in the beginning. A man who's THAT into you is incapable of playing it cool.

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  74. This really does open my eyes about a man's ability and reason's for loving some women and not others... It actually clarifies my failed 20 year marriage and subsequent failed 4 year relationship after my divorce. The one common factor in both was the "missing" ingredient..I blindly assumed that because these men wanted to sleep with me that they somewhere deep down, loved me.. and that time would allow them to see it. Well, how wrong and stupid was I? Not until I changed my perception of myself and them, did I begin to love myself inside and out. No more beating myself up for things I did and didn't do to them, for them, with or without them.. My commitment to myself did not include the word them... I suddenly saw myself as the beautiful mature and sexy woman others had described me as and the certainty that I could my choice of any man I wanted was as apparent to me as the nose on my face..( I am a Leo after all!) So as shy and backwards as I had been my adult life, I decided to try online dating and it was like taking a kid to a candy store and giving it a credit card with no limit!!! An endless ocean of men to choose from and all for the taking... One of the shyest and most sincere men contacted me with a simple "how are you?" and I was a little hooked, at least intrigued. In two months, we have poured our hearts out to each other, explored our needs and desires and expressed our love in many ways. I have a very good feeling about this one, he insists on holding every door open for me to enter first, tends to walk one step behind me with his hand on my back and holds my hand in the truck. I can feel myself growing attached to him and I am hoping these are good signs...

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  75. So does this count for a boy that has simply seen you before or been in a lecture hall with? Because I really like this boy and it was love at first sight... But I'm scared that even when i try to talk to him and get him to like me back, he won't because he didn't like me from the first time he saw me..

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    1. A lecture hall is so big, that with several hundred in it, it is hard to keep track of who is who.

      Improve your chances, by

      - Standing out. Sit somewhere where people can easily see you.
      - Participate in class.
      - Look approachable. It is a lecture class - it may be even a boring one, but smile!
      - Looking exceptionally hot - a reminder that what one guy finds hot may not be considered hot by another.
      - Try to accidentally sit next to him for a session.
      - Start by saying hi.
      - Ask if you could borrow his notes from class as you missed XYZ part.


      All the best of luck!

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  76. So how can a woman tell the difference between a man falling into lust at the start vs. a man falling into romantic love at the start???

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  77. I have loved twice in my adult life... one man I met at 19 and was initially not attracted to in the least. I worked with his brother, and met him at my place of work once. I found him timid, a little dorky, not very attractive physically, and a little off putting. We became roommates later that year and I gradually grew to love him, and moved into his bedroom. We were together 6 years, and I bore his son, but he never loved me back, as it turns out.

    Fast forward a few years and a few unremarkable "meh" relationships plus a lot of "ugh, I'm so sick of dating" time down the line, and I experienced the infamous "love at first sight." Met a man that was a friend of a friend, and literally the moment I saw him I felt I had known him my entire life. He was familiar, and I saw him as absolutely beautiful, even though he was the antithesis of my "type." He felt the same for me, things escalated quickly, the L-bomb was dropped by him first and very early, and just as I was starting to really think "this could be it!" he went cold on me. It's 2 years later this week and I'm still head over heels for the goof.

    His daughter loves me and plays well with my son (they are 6 months apart) and we get along well. We are friends, and still attracted to each other physically, as I know since we have had a few romps during down time, kind of an unspoken FWB situation, but he's uninterested in a relationship with me, even though I have become completely passive to allow him time to make a move... a tad less than two years ago he had remarked to our mutual friend that I was moving too fast (when he initiated everything, especially saying I love you!) so I piped down and decided to play it cool in a sense, never text first, etc. Later on he told me it fizzled out because I "didn't come around anymore." I'm pulling my hair out! Is it because I was overwhelming or because I backed off?!

    I feel like I'm home when I'm with this guy, and he has obviously felt the same with me at some point, with no legitimate reason for it to have died. I feel like whether gradual or sudden, there is no way of telling how, why, or when a man will fall in love, if ever. Ugh! So frustrating.

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