Thursday, July 18, 2013

The Importance of Personal Boundaries

A lot of girls have e-mailed me asking for my opinion of the book Why Men Love Bitches. I'd heard of the book a couple times outside of the blog as well, so about six months ago, after a handful of these requests, I decided to get a copy to see what it was all about. My conclusion was that the book is saying something true, but also saying it poorly.

The truth is that men are attracted to bitches, but we don't love them because they are bitches; we just love women that happen to be bitches. In other words, men are attracted to bitches for a quality other than their bitchiness - a quality that any woman (bitch or not) can have. A similar thing is true of women who like "assholes." They only like those men because they are also strong, or confident, or powerful. They don't like them because they are assholes, they like them in spite of their being assholes.

The book Why Men Love Bitches doesn't make this distinction strongly enough for my taste. It skirts around a point that many women desperately need to hear without ever directly addressing it. It plays on an attention-grabbing title, at the expense of clearly telling women the crucial point - namely, that being a bitch, in-and-of-itself, is actually very unattractive to men. My worry is that some women read the book and start being bitchy in an attempt to attract men, just like many men try to be assholes to attract women. Both strategies are dangerous because they are often partially successful, despite missing the real point.

In any case, this criticism obviously begs the question: what are “bitchy” girls doing right? If women like men who are assholes, not because they are assholes, but because they are confident or strong in some other way, then what is the analogous quality in "bitches" that attracts men? And the answer is simple: bitchy women have strong personal boundaries.

Personal boundaries are the limits at which you "draw the line" and prevent other people from infringing on your personal world, that is, your personal rights and emotions - essentially, they are the limits of "what you will put up with." Boundaries apply in both big and small matters, and in all areas of your life: romantic, practical, physical, emotional, spiritual. Some people draw their boundaries quite close to themselves, allowing others to infringe upon their personal world dramatically, without resistance. Others draw expansive boundaries, protecting even their smallest and least significant rights and emotions relentlessly. Balancing between these two extremes is critical. But before saying more about how they play into male-female dynamics, I want to illustrate the concept with a few examples...

Example 1 – A woman is riding a busy train. There is one seat available, but a businessman is using it for his laptop bag while he works intently on his computer. The woman wants to sit down, and certainly has a right to the seat, but she will handle the situation differently depending on the strength of her boundaries. If they are very strong, she will walk up to the man and ask him politely to move his bag so that she can sit down. If she has medium boundaries, she might walk into his field of view, a little tentatively, hoping that he will take the initiative to move his bag himself – but standing if he doesn't. If she has weak boundaries, she will be too nervous about upsetting him, and will tell herself "I can just stand, it isn't that far," which is exactly what she will do.

Example 2 – A woman is asked out by a man who doesn't show up for a date, and doesn't apologize. If the woman has strong boundaries, she won’t hesitate to delete his contact information, and tell him when he calls back three days later that he can go fuck himself. If the woman has medium boundaries, she will probably keep his contact info and ask him what happened, but ultimately agree to another date – despite being under-impressed with his excuse. If she has weak boundaries, the woman will probably just pretend nothing happened, assume that she must have misunderstood the plans, and maybe even apologize for the text she sent that night asking what happened (which he never answered).

Example 3 – A girl walking down the street is asked to contribute to an organization or charity whose ideals she does not believe in. The person asking for donations is enthusiastic and persistent. If the girl has strong boundaries she will say "no" immediately, ignore the second request, and maybe even snap back "I said no!" if asked a third time. If the girl has medium boundaries she is likely to apologize and makes an excuse about not having any money on her, in order to avoid donating and compromising her beliefs. A girl with weak boundaries will first try to avoid the person asking for money altogether; but once she is asked, she will immediately give in, and actually donate a generous amount because she sees on the list that other people have done the same.

Example 4 – A girl is throwing a neon-themed party, and wants to invite a guy she has a crush on. The idea of the party is that anyone who attends has to wear all neon, and the girl knows that if she lets one person come in normal clothes, others will too, and the theme will be spoiled. Upon inviting the guy she likes, he tells her that he'd like to come, but he has nothing neon to wear, and that he has no time between now and the party to buy something. A girl with weak boundaries will immediately tell the guy that it isn't a strict requirement, and that he should just come anyway. A woman with medium boundaries won't bend on the requirement, but she might offer to help him find some neon clothes. A woman with strong boundaries will smile, maybe throw in a wink or a nudge, and tell the guy that if he really wants to come, he will find a way to get something neon (she isn't going to let him ruin the party just because she likes him).

Often people with weak boundaries are thought of as kind or charitable, and a lot of people with strong boundaries are perceived as assholes and bitches, but these labels are inaccurate. It is perfectly possible to have strong personal boundaries without being an asshole (best illustrated in example 1, where the woman is firm, but polite), just as it is perfectly possible to have weak personal boundaries without being kind or charitable (best illustrated in example 3, where the girl gives to charity, but not for altruistic motives). Assholes and bitches are just a subset of the group of people with strong boundaries, just as kind and charitable people are just a subset of the group of people with weak boundaries.

This can be illustrated quite simply with a Venn diagram. There is some overlap between the groups, but there are plenty of people with strong boundaries outside the set of assholes, just as there are plenty of people with weak boundaries outside the set of kind people. Neither group completely encompasses the other.

Perhaps the primary way in which we judge another person's value (and I mean primary both in the sense of "main" and in the sense of chronologically first) is by evaluating what they appear to think about themselves. We do this by observing their confidence, their posture, their grooming, the way they dress, and most importantly, the way they interact with others. We form an opinion of their self-esteem and bearing.

We do this because - unless we know them extremely well - we are privy only to a limited amount of information about their capabilities, talents, and weaknesses (i.e. the things that actually define their value); so we are forced to make a second-hand judgment, an inference. But in general, this judgment is reasonably accurate, because people usually know their own strengths and weaknesses almost perfectly. This self-knowledge usually informs their level of confidence, such that the way that they carry themselves usually reflects their strengths and weaknesses reasonably well.*

Now, healthy boundaries are a sign of confidence, of someone who respects themselves, of someone who knows their own self-worth. Weak boundaries, on the other hand, are a sign of insecurity and low self-esteem. The woman who asks the man on the train for a seat knows that she is just as good as he is, and just as deserving of the seat, so she has no inhibitions about asking (or even telling) him to move his bag. The woman who lets her date get away with not showing up thinks he is the best she can do (i.e. thinks she is below his league). She is afraid to cut him off because she doesn't want to lose him. The girl who can't say no to a donation request, and then gives more than she wanted, has such a poor self-image that she puts even a random charity worker's opinion above her own money and principles. And the girl who tells her crush not to come to the party out-of-costume does so easily because her sense of self-worth is not contingent on one man's willingness to attend a party – or even on how much he likes her.

I am saying all of this is to make a very simple but crucial point: when a man encounters a woman who has strong boundaries, he knows that she values and respects herself, and he therefore makes the reasonable inference that she is a woman of good character. Assuming she meets his minimum criteria for physical attractiveness, his attraction for her – and I am talking about the long-term kind, the kind that makes men fall in love – will skyrocket.

The opposite is also true. When a man meets a woman who lets him (or others) walk all over her boundaries, or even define them, he concludes that she doesn't respect herself, and therefore, that she must not be someone worthy of respect. Even if she is beautiful, his attraction for her will soon plummet.

In my experience, women tend to have weaker rather than stronger boundaries. My guess is that this is true because, from a young age, their boundaries are often handled by the males in their lives – a protective father or brother, suitors who believe they need to be “gentlemen,” male colleagues who suppress their sexual attraction in the office, etc. Surrounded by this behavior, women have relatively less practice than men (on average) maintaining their personal boundaries, defending their personal space, rights and emotions. As a result, they aren't as comfortable confronting someone on the train about moving his bag, or telling those who mistreat them to go fuck themselves.

It has also been my experience that the more attractive a girl is, the more likely she will be to have weak boundaries. This is a little counter-intuitive, and definitely a generalization, but I think I understand why it is the case. From a young age, beautiful women are surrounded by men who are constantly demurring, constantly meeting their needs, and giving them whatever space or compliments they need. Some women like this still manage to develop strong boundaries, and they are the ones that men would kill to be with. But most do not, because they've never had to "fight" for anything. When a woman like this comes across a man who is confident and attractive, she invariably gets banged, walked all over, then dumped. And it is largely because she doesn't show the men in her life that she is someone of value. If she were to maintain strong personal boundaries, men would see that she respected herself, and would want to trace that confidence to its root by getting to know her.

Do not underestimate the importance of this post. For what I suspect is the majority of my readers, it is probably the most important one I've written. I get e-mails all the time from beautiful women (they attach pictures), telling me that they are doing "everything right," but that they still can't land a man. Other women e-mail me asking how they can really "hook" a guy, how they can make him look past the sex, how they can get him to fall in love. They can attract the men they want, they just can't seem to keep to them. This post is fundamental to answering both questions.

For the girls doing “everything right”…
If you read through the posts on this blog, you will notice that many of them – some of which are linked in the Related Posts section, below – advocate the maintenance of strong boundaries in specific situations; but boundaries are not something that you can apply to your life only in a piece-wise fashion. This is transparent. Even if a girl doesn't fuck on the first date, a guy will know that she has poor boundaries when she accepts a date after he’s admitted that he isn't looking for anything serious. Likewise, a girl who doesn't initiate contact still betrays her weak boundaries if she replies immediately to every text a guy writes her. Doing only the things I've posted about on this blog will only get you a fraction of the way to the correct disposition. This post is meant to explain the underlying principle, so that you really can apply it in everything.

For the girls who can attract but can’t keep a man…
Boundaries are fundamental to getting past the initial attraction phase with a man. Looks only get you in the door. As I have said before, while appearances are essential in getting a guy to approach or getting him to ask you out, they are nowhere near enough to get a guy to commit for the long term. Strong boundaries are a primary and therefore critical indicator of a woman's deep, inner worth – the kind of woman that men are not only willing to commit to, but actually want to commit to. There are plenty of women out there who are attractive, but there are very few who have the substance to go with it. Sound, healthy boundaries set a woman apart from the crowd instantly.

So, yes, "men love bitches," in the sense that they love women with strong personal boundaries; but they do not love bitches because they are mean, manipulative, under-handed or have harsh personalities. Men love bitches because their personal boundaries are rooted in a self-respect that tells him more than anything else about their character and inner-value; and it is only with this kind of woman that men want to settle down.

___________________
* While of course there are plenty of exceptions, they are normally short-lived. In the long run, people who are over- or under-confident almost always run into circumstances that serve to correct their distorted self-image. Some good examples are the delusional American Idol contestants who are finally told by the judges (on public television) how much they suck. Similarly, a person who has no self-esteem will eventually find a talent or social niche, and realize that they really aren’t as dumb or awkward as they thought.


Related Posts
1. The Importance of Silence After a Breakup
2. Don't Try to Be One of The Guys
3. Never Tell a Guy When You'll Have Sex With Him
4. No, You Can't Be "Just Friends"
5. Men That Like You Will Explain Themselves
6. Men and "Friends with Benefits"
7. The Downside to Cohabitation Before Marriage

261 comments:

  1. Having good boundaries is no doubt a plus for women, but I wouldn't overstate the case.

    Confidence in a man is a lot more important to women than good boundaries in a woman is to men.

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    1. Good boundaries help women avoid pain. I think men don't understand this pain nor its depth.

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  2. I thought it was the opposite way around than andrew is describing. where hot women had more boundaries because they have more options so they'd put up with less sh*t than women not as attractive.

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  3. Girls, guys, reminder: please comment with a name,

    Also, identify whether you are male or female, as this can sometimes add a lot of weight to your opinion.

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  4. THANK YOU ANDREW!!! I love your blog :))))

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  5. I am not sure if I understand the venn diagram correctly. I understand the essence of it (bitches are a subset of women with strong boundaries..) and so on.
    The 'kind and charitable' does not touch the strong boundaries at all. Would you say that these are mutually exclusive? A woman can be firm about not giving money to strangers asking in the street, but she can still donate both time and money to a charity she believes in. There is a chance I'm overthinking this, but I would assume the ideal was a woman who is kind, charitable and sometimes a bit meek, but who maintains strong personal boundaries when she sees shitty behavior.

    Secondly, the piece of the 'kind of charitable' circle which goes outside the 'weak boundaries', do they have medium boundaries?

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    1. I took the diagrams as being separate - those who are 'kind and charitable' but are not in the 'weak boundaries' category could have strong or medium boundaries. ie. there are those who are both kind and 'strong', but they're in the minority (indicated by the smaller area). The same can be applied to the other diagram - there are people who are assholes or bitches yet still have have weak boundaries, but they're less common.
      I'd like to know about examples of assholes who have weak boundaries, if Andrew has any.
      - Violet, female.

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    2. I updated the wording a little to clarify.

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  6. Andrew, this is hands down my favorite post of yours. As I was reading it I had flash backs to less than stellar experiences with men and how my lack of backbone played a role in the outcome. I also realized I could have avoided many missteps by standing my ground not letting the thoughts of maybe this is the best I can do, ect get in the way of not being brushed off.

    Thank you so much!

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    1. Also, I realized that I have quite strong boundaries in certain aspects of life but very weak boundaries when it comes to relationships with men. While I will have no problem cutting off a friend/acquaintance for being disrespectful, I will give a guy chance after chance thinking he is more likely to stick around. Little did I know that it was turning him completely OFF to me.

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  7. Andrew, what are your thoughts on cheating? Do you think there is there ever a situation where the woman should give the guy another chance if he sincerely apologizes and is fighting to win her back? Or do you think the woman should just always cut him off?

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    1. Andrew, I am wondering the same. My boyfriend cheated a month into our relationship (2 months dating) and I found out months later. He says he never told me because he knew he'd never do it again and because he knew I'd walk away if I knew. While I did not know why, I did notice how much more devoted he was after that day. I believe he should have told me, and he is trying hard to make it up to me now... Doing everything I ask like counseling or staying away from females . I'm extra hard on him because he never told me, and because... The girl he cheated with was friends with his friends and although he cut down hanging out with those friends, he'd still go to their parties where she would be. He told me they never talked about the cheating night but he just did his best to avoid her. When I found out, he offered to never see those friends again or the girl, but I asked to tell the friends that he cheated (since they r female and I only met them once and they weren't overly friendly since one of the girls was his ex , I don't want him to hang out with them) and to tell the girl to her face that they are to be like strangers and he is breaking all ties with her.
      What do you think Andrew? Instant break up, stay and work through it, take a break... Etc

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    2. @Anonymous, 7/20/13, 12:50 PM

      First of all, he cheated on you one month into your relationship. And you say you found out months later. So during those intervening months of him cheating on you and you finding out, he was lying to you. During all of that time. I think because he cheated so early on into the relationship, that is reason enough to break up with him. It shows a lack of respect for you. How can you be sure that he won't do the same again in the future? And you can't ask someone to not interact with the opposite gender. That is totally unrealistic.

      I would end the relationship as soon as possible. You've already seen a lack of trust and loyalty so early on in the relationship, so how can you trust him and expect him to treat you with respect further into the relationship?

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    3. My ex cheated on me after 2 months being together. We were together for another 11,5 years and he was a lovely boyfriend. I never however fully got over him cheating so I wanted to get even and cheated on him not only one time, but many times. I don't think he ever cheated on me again. Unfortunately, it did affect the relationship from the start and cheating broke the relationship (me doing so and wanting to walk away).

      If you think you can stomach what your boyfriend did, then stay with him. Don't try to get even and ruin it like I did.

      Delete
  8. this is an amazing article/ post.
    I see myself as a person with strong boudaries most of the time and because so, people sometimes tend to see me as an asshole, but i really do not care what others think.

    if i see something wrong or someone being simply stupid I will surely point it out to others, and i will not take second level treatment.

    boundaries actually make you who you are.
    sometimes you can bend them a little but we always have to remember that we have to love ourselves first, then other come along

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  9. SORRY ABOUT THE LENGTH

    I'm really glad you addressed this issue Andrew. i have been bad with personal boundaries in the past, but no more.
    Here's a post from another site that other girls may find useful. I know I have.
    12v Core Boundaries to live by in dating and relationships

    On a personal note, I am wondering about this guy, recently reappeared in my life, (this blog is really right about EVERYTHING) A while back I thought I'd found my guy, but he ended being someone who is not fully ready to have an adult relationship. I made this inference given his poor level of cleanliness and his inability to call it a night. One night we went out with his friends and he let his friends act rudely towards me, blatantly flirted with other girls at the bar and then ended up shouting and calling me names at a late night deli after i confronted him about his wild drinking and partying habits and lying about being a smoker.
    I took off the next morning and only wrote him an email wishing him well and telling him that i had been so close to falling for him but because of xyz we had no future together.

    4 months later (week ago).... he emailed about watching my favorite movie and then we went on a date. It's a little weird because we aren't addressing the incident that kept us apart. It's only been 4 months but he seems much healthier looks better (not tired and lost weight/looks fit) he told me "it all caught up to me" and "I have so many weddings this year, everyone is getting married" I didn't even bring up the drinking or marrying, he volunteered this information as part of catching up or what have you.

    My question to all the readers males/females/Andrew.... Do I have poor personal boundaries for letting this man back into my life after what he did that night?

    I hadn't felt that way for someone in a long time if ever and after things ended I cried for a week (we only date 1.5 months) and I haven't dating any one since. Still think of him every week. I think we would be perfect as in marriage perfect if he was ready to commit and end the party stuff. All his peers are getting married (35) He comes from a happy home that I know of.
    What should i do? Should I give it another chance, my heart would break if it ends like it did last time..

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    1. I wrote a longer paragraph but it didn't go through so ill try and make this short

      *your letting your emotions overpower your rationality

      * you don't know this man well enough to know his character, therefore the biggest indicators are his actions

      *this man disrespected you ( yes he did) and if you want any chance to move forward, it nessa to be brought up. The fact that he hasn't is a big warning sign. The fact that despite that your so easily receptive is another big no no.

      * lets go back to reality, you don't know this guy you've only dated him for 1.5 months. Don't let his looks charm ect mess with your rationality

      *you sound older since his friends are 35, don't waste your time

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    2. I'm 23, I agree with what you are saying here. I also think that I can trust myself to make the right decisions with men which is why I havent dated . I know I'll just choose the wrong one and bad things will happen again :(

      Do you think I should cut him off or bring up what happened the next time I see him (monday) and if so, what should I tell him? How it made me feel or ... ??

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    3. Ok let me just say that for the future it is very weird to be fine one minute with a guy, and the next minute decide to cut someone off.

      You needed to be sure of your feelings and your actions before even starting again with this guy.

      With that being said, since you already spoke to this guy/met I do not recommend you abruptly cutting him off, he's just going to think your an emptional female.

      I think you should take a hard, and I do mean hard, look at the scenario and really rationalize your feelings for this guy, and if it will overall benefit you. If you really really think this guy is worth if, I think you should talk to him about it. Tell him that before you further proceed you need to clear up some things. when you do, see what he says, analyze his body language.

      Depending on whether his sincere or not is if you proceed. Don't go overly in depth on your emotions. Do tell him in a couple of sentences how you feel about this situation. Something like " I hear what your saying but i did not like that situation at all and think we should take it slow" or however you wanna spin it. Just remember not to be so emotional. For example saying

      " I was heartbroken, this made me so sad, i really liked you ect" - I would only recommend that if you guys really had something of substance, which takes years to establish.

      The rest I leave it to you, but you know how that old saying goes, "fool me once shame on you, twice on me". So be careful. Your in your prime years and it would be sad to waste on someone unworthy

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    4. I would not bring the past up at all. In fact, if he ever asks you about it I would state that you guys are starting over in a clean slate. Doesn't mean you'll tolerate stupid behaviour. It just means that you are no longer going to judge him for how he behaved in the past, but rather on how he behaves in the present.

      If he does alright, then great. If he mucks up, then that's where strong boundaries are brought into light.

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    5. Why is this guy entitled to a free slate? Did he apologize profusely that made me decide to give him this clean slate.. No, he hasn't even brought it up ugh.

      If I guy messed up by verbally screaming at me and showting me names you best believe I'm going to ask him what was up. Maybe this would lead to him telling his past history or it would lead to him shrugging it off. Either way this is valuable info to asses his character.

      Everyone's different, but I personally see not saying anything as weakness by avoiding an awrk situation and to me it says. " yes guy A, you can scream at me, stop communicating with me for four months, come back and pretend like nothing happend, and I'm 100 percent ok with that"


      Ughh

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    6. Look of course how he behaved was very wrong! I am not saying that all is good and forgiven.

      Fact: According to aGirl he has changed.
      Fact: It's been FOUR months since they communicated.
      Fact: Suddenly he comes back. He never apologized (from what we know), but she still is happy to see him on Monday.

      I am not saying to pretend that nothing happened or to be all understanding. In no way am I stating that she should be like "Hey, what you did - don't worry about it. It's cool." Of course not. Just that grilling him for the past will make him run away immediately. Playing it calm and collected, but cautious and stern may actually get an 'I am sorry' in return. Make your boundaries known.


      Look, it's been FOUR months since he acted like a jerk. With someone behaving like that she should've moved on by now. Hanging on to the past as in - I still remember what you did to me - clearly shows that she hasn't. So, grilling him shows that you still care. Alas, don't do it.

      Want to have the upper hand? Show him that you moved past that incident, you couldn't care less. Someone who behaves like that is not worth your time. (Repeat: Someone who behaves like that is not worth your time.)

      If he's changed, a clean slate is the way to go. Create a new relationship, where whatever happened in the past, well, is in the past.

      Still bottom line is: why should YOU give him your time?

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    7. Thanks for your thoughtful replies girls (?)
      I am a bit confused about what to do now, but I think Nug is right, since we were never officially a couple back then talking about it might seem like too much.
      I wrote him a letter that I'm sure he read and probably asked his girl friends opinion of the letter (I know he likes to ask them, they get bored at the office)I told him in the letter all of the things he did wrong and even stated that I did something wrong by not leaving at the first transgression. I stayed and took it all all the way up to being yelled at in front of the workers at the deli.

      Then I told him that I know he is a good person when he isn't drinking and that i cared about him.

      He must still remember that letter and i asked him not to write back so he never apologized.

      Now that I have read your replies I feel two things

      1. he is surprised that I have let him back into my life so easily after what he did. I shouldn't have. I am going to let him do all of the work when it comes to setting up dates and following through.

      2. I shouldn't ask about the incident, he should bring it up.

      3. Will have to proceed cautiously and not have sex with him until I know if he has really changed his ways. Time will tell.

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    8. * three things :D

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    9. Talk about it please! Actually if you were never a couple in the first place, go and find someone else - if he hasn't treated you with respect from the start, guaranteed there will be more instances of that behaviour once he has wormed his way back into your life

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    10. See up there, another person agrees with me.

      Listen you do as you please, just try your best to think rationally, be alert, don't fall into your feelings, and stand on your ground.

      Note to you: a guy wouldn't bring this up if you appear to be completely cool with it

      Note to nug: I never used the word "grill" just said ask.

      I agree with what the above says.
      Good luck

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    11. That's cool. I never said you used that word. I only used 'grill' to clearly stress my point. :) I feel we both agree with the sentiment: 'Someone who behaves like that is not worth your time.'

      We just have a different approach. :)

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    12. Okay I will bring it up the next time I see him in a direct, but non aggressive manner. I just realized I was scared to bring it up because I really want him to be different and bringing it up might prove he isn't. I realize that is something I need to accept.
      Thanks guys.

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    13. Hey, aGirl, I hope it worked out for you! :)

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    14. update:

      No, I couldn't bring myself to do it. He finally asked me out to dinner and we went shopping for his trip to Spain. He offered to buy me clothes, but I declined. We had such am amazing time and I ended up sleeping over :(
      While were in bed I kept wanting to say something, but I didn't know how to bring it up. In fact, I kind of wanted to tell him I really liked him. Urgh ..something is wrong with me. He's leaving and then I am leaving so I might not see him for another month. So lost....I just want him to be it :(

      I did everything wrong. But he was super happy and wants to see me before he leaves.

      Delete
  10. I think that a key part is what you mentioned about attractive women tending to have stronger boundaries. Why do they have stronger boundaries? Easy. They have more power, in terms of men giving them attention.

    So hotter girls have more power and can thus afford to have stronger boundaries and some of them will be bitchier.

    So men aren't liking the bitchiness itself. They're liking the hotter women that tend to have more bitchiness (or perceived bitchiness that shot-down men feel is there).

    The (perceived and real) bitchiness (due to boundaries that don't let the man in) correlates with the beauty of the woman.

    Men mostly don't like bitchiness in women but they'll tolerate it if she's valuable enough otherwise.

    Also, a certain amount of playful sassiness can be attractive in a woman that likes you and you know she likes you. And even triggering a bit of anger and exasperation in a man without causing him to hate or lose respect for you (meaning, not taking things too far) can ignite a certain type of sexual passion in a man. It kind of makes you want to fuck the woman and take all that rage out on her in an amazing flurry of passionate and cathartic rage fucking.

    But tread lightly with inspiring the rage fuck desire in a man. It can be incredibly intoxicating from time to time but is incredibly easy to go overboard and make him just say "fuck it" and leave and never come back.

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    1. You read the post wrong. He is saying the opposite.
      "For better or worse, the more attractive a girl is, the more likely she is to lack practice maintaining strong boundaries – or even medium ones".
      He is saying that hot women have weaker boundaries, not stronger.

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    2. Hotter women have less 'need' to establish stronger boundaries because they can just move on to the next option. This will appear like a strong boundary and not tolerating poor treatment (she stopped dating him) but is more likely just avoiding the confrontation and hoping the next guy will be better.

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    3. Sophie, HanSolo may have read the post wrong, but his comment still has the ring of truth to it on a gut level. As a man who's very social and who's dated many women of all stripes, I sense HanSolo's perspective a lot more in the real world.

      Maybe it would be better stated as "hotter girls have more power and can thus afford to ENFORCE (rather than "have") stronger boundaries and some of them will be bitchier".

      Andrew is correct too. His explanation is perhaps more cerebral. There seems to be a bit more mental gymnastics going on there. To me, Occam's Razor favors HanSolo's reasoning a bit more.

      In the real world, both are probably functioning at the same time. Hard to tease them apart.

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    4. i agree with Hansolo's view too. I was confused with Andrew's

      Delete
    5. I agree with both Hansolo and Andrew. I met beautiful women with both weak and strong boundaries. But the main difference I have noticed between the two groups is how the women became attractive in the first place.

      Women who take their time to wear makeup and work out to make themselves the most attractive as possible tend to have weak boundaries. They crave attention and be more willing to let a man treat them badly for it. According to this blog, Andrew is attracted this type of women hence why he believe beautiful women have weak boundaries in general.

      Women who are naturally beautiful without makeup and exercise tend to have good boundaries. These women get hit on all the time no matter how little effort they put into their appearance. They knew their value since day one and be less willing to put up with crap.

      Delete
    6. I guess I did misread it. I still believe what I said matches my experiences.

      I think the idea of boundaries is very important to women so that they keep out the men that aren't a good match or that don't share the same goals as a woman.

      Think about it. If a man and a woman had exactly the same intentions then you wouldn't need any boundaries since the places where a woman could be harmed would never be violated.

      OTOH, if an appealing man only wants casual sex and a woman only wants a relationship then she better damn well have good boundaries or she'll end up succumbing to her attraction for him and violating what she wants in favor of what he wants, thus allowing her no-casual zone to be "invaded."

      I think that a woman who has the strength of character and wisdom to establish and enforce sensible boundaries is an important component of her personality being appealing and attractive to men.

      But lest women get to excited by thinking that by having boundaries they'll suddenly be getting men they couldn't before, don't get your hopes up too high.

      Men basically look at women's looks first and foremost and women fall into 3 categories:

      1) Definitely attractive enough, above his threshold, whatever level that might be.

      2) Maybe attractive enough (and this is the zone where a man will be more likely to only want casual sex).

      3) Not attractive enough.

      Second in importance to looks is her personality. A girl in category 1 can rule herself out by being a bitch or lazy or selfish or whatever. The girl in category 2 needs to have a great personality to make up for the slight lack of certainty about her looks. This is possible but difficult. The girl in category 3 has no hope.

      I think that a woman having boundaries is one of many components to having a good personality but in the end her looks being above his minimum acceptable level is much more important and there are just as many other personality qualities that are as important as having boundaries.

      But it is interesting to see how this post has received such a positive reaction from women. As a man, in all honesty, I don't see a woman and think, "Oh my god she has such strong boundaries, I must have her." No, it's the process I described above.

      Rather, the vital importance of having boundaries is to keep women from being walked all over by men that don't share the same intentions as they do.

      So, I will heartily agree that boundaries are vitally important for a woman to have success with men (by keeping out the men that may be attractive but have different designs) so that women can avoid putting themselves in hurtful situations and focus on the men that do have the same intentions as the women.

      In terms of attracting men, though, I think that having boundaries is just one piece of many in the personality arsenal that a man will want for a long-term female partner, and looks are still the most important thing to work on.

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    7. I wonder if there's a bit of wishful thinking on the part of the excited women here thinking that by having boundaries they'll suddenly be able to get men they couldn't before.

      I don't think this is true. Most of the stories I'm reading in the comments here is about women getting burned for not having strong boundaries. But they were getting burned by men that probably weren't good candidates anyways--a lot of those men were jerks or just wanted casual sex.

      The importance of having boundaries is mostly to keep out the wrong type of men and allow women to focus on the right type. To have the strength to keep from allowing an attractive and charming man to go where you know you shouldn't let him but part of you wants to in the moment.

      Having boundaries will improve your relationship value somewhat but it is just one of many necessary personality qualities and never forget that the most important thing is you need to:

      Be above his minimum looks threshold.

      Delete
    8. A final thought is that women can often get casual-sex attention from out-of-their-league men but can't get long-term and faithful relationships from said men.

      The level of a man she can get casual sex from is higher than the level she can get commitment from. Her upper casual-sex level is thus higher than her commitment level.

      Many women in their 20's make the mistake of thinking that they can get commitment from as high a man as they can get casual sex from. Big mistake!

      Since many women love to try for these "better" men they are swimming near the top of or often above the level of man that they can get commitment from and so those waters will be heavily infested with casual-sex-seeking sharks.

      Thus it is very important for women to have very strong boundaries lest they get bitten time and again by the ravenous sharks that lust after their flesh.

      Delete
    9. Lol.. This just happened to me today. I met a man online who was in my opinion, hot. When I find someone hot online its based solely on appearance and I can admit, no offense to myself, that he was at a higher level than me. Unfortunately, I find hot men not so hot because I now find it hard not to stereotype them. For this reason... After no real attempt to stir up any conversation, he immediately asks for a picture (there's plenty of me online!). I'm an attractive fit and well put together woman and have no problem sending one to him on the spot. But before I did, I told him that I wouldn't be sending him anything more (revealing) than what he's already seen. And he went off on me. He told me I had a bad attitude and was negative. I told him that I don't play games and that I just wanted him to know where I stood so that there would be no miscommunication. Even though I was a bit skeptic to begin with, I did put that in the back of my head and didn't act in an assumptuous manner (Why wouldn't I want to find a hot gentleman?!? I was rooting for him!) I am actually a sweet person and I hate the sterness that I feel needs to be taken to set clear boundaries, but its definitely necessary to keep guys like this away. I was called uptight, boring, and angry. Meanwhile, I couldn't help but to laugh as these texts came in and I could see how worked up he was about this. Now that the drama of the day is over, it does bother me because I respected myself and wanted to set boundaries I was insulted by being called a no fun, uptight, angry bitch. Funny thing is that I'm actually the opposite. Fortunately he only took up about 30 minutes of my time, not any more than that! Sharks!!

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    10. Interesting story and it shows how having boundaries keep out guys that (likely) just want sex or sexy pics. Your having boundaries didn't make you any more or less physically attractive to him and that's all he was concerned with, looking for someone attractive enough that would send him sexy pics and eventually probably have sex with him.

      Delete
  11. I guess the rage fuck is closely related to, and even in some cases one example of, make-up sex.

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  12. Andrew great job!!!! but I disagree I think the book did justice in stating this same opinion, just easier for girls to understand.

    Remember girls are often times programmed or, better yet, brainwashed to "give give give". Many of us are often times insecure and seek validation of ourselves through men. This insecurity comes from alot of places, media, school, family, ect.

    The book main point is that you should value yourself, and when you do, you won't put yourself in predicaments where your being used because you see yourself and find as important

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  13. I think you are absolutely right. It's not the "bitchiness" men love, it's the strong personal boundaries. And thanks to your examples, I can finally identify myself as having medium boundaries. I have read the book twice and have always been reflective of points within it. I don't agree with every line or idea presented but I do think it promotes an introductory toward having strong boundaries as a woman, but I have to hand it to you, you said it better than Argov did.

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  14. Andrew, this is undoubtedly one of your best posts. It's helped me finally understand why my last relationship did not work out. Now I can apply this wisdom to future ones. Thank you for having the insight and sharing it in such an articulate and accessible manner.

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  15. I'd like to give a personal anecdote to affirm the wisdom in this post.

    I had never consciously thought about boundaries. I fell for a man a couple of years ago, hardest I'd ever fallen. I thought I would never find a man like him again. I found myself in the position of wanting it to work out so badly that I allowed myself (looking in retrospect) very weak boundaries, and as a result, got hurt very badly. Was in a very dark place for a long long time. But I clawed my way out of the pit by insisting on (looking in retrospect) strong boundaries even though it was so, so hard and I risked losing him. I'd come to realize that I didn't want that kind of man after all, if that's the way he would treat women, and if I would have him it would have to be on my terms, where I was treated well (=kindly & with respect). He called three times over a year, I said no to his terms and suggested what would work for me. Haven't head from him now in 7 months.

    During this later period, after the addiction drained out of me and I was whole again and happy, I realized I had developed a very strong sense of what I would not put up with in a man and what I was looking for. It all boils down to character for me. And that strong sense of what I want now serves as a great filter. I've said no many times for first dates because I can tell they won't make the cut. I swore I would never ever let a man treat me badly again or let me get into such a dark place.

    ..... Horizon in all directions was clear for months ... And then I recently met a wonderful man, puts the first man to shame, he's just the type of man I was looking for except he found me, made a beeline for me and is pursuing me. And everything is happening wonderfully. He's in frequent contact, sets up the next date right away, will drive a distance to see me, is open about his friends and family... no red flags. And he's no beta, total alpha male. I've made it pretty clear - subtly, gently, but clear - that I want to proceed slowly and really get to know him before getting more deeply involved, and he is not only fine with the boundaries but even more eager to see me.

    In the end, where boundaries come from in women is a strong sense of self, knowing what you will not put up with and knowing what you want. And, really and truly, the right man for you will respond to this. Those that don't you can ignore because they will not be the right men for you.

    No bitchiness, no harshness. Rather, a natural kindness, gentleness, sweetness, a great deal of respect for the man, and rock solid on my boundaries. The opposite of weakness is not bitchiness, it's confidence and inner strength. Dates are so much fun for us both because we feel so happy just being in each others' presence. It's a shame though that I had to be in such a dark place to get to this inner strength. But if it led me to this wonderful man, and this wonderful man recognizing my worth, I guess I'd have to say it was worth it.

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    1. So good to hear that you found someone who treats you well (the way you want to be treated), respects you, and enjoys your company! :) Really enjoyed reading this and it gives me hope :D

      Delete
    2. It is really good to read that you found someone nice!


      Andrew's post about boundaries is spot on and really resonates with me. I now realize why this one guy called it quits. I usually have strong boundaries, but at one point it seemed my family was walking all over me (well that's how it looked liked without me realizing it until now). Not exactly appealing at all.

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    3. thanks for sharing your experience, I find some of Andrew's examples a bit literal.

      I like to see how boundaries function in the dating world.

      often times, ladies, enforcing your boundaries and know when to and how to is not so simple. Your feelings are caught up and you want to follow your heart. Sabrina is a great example of how it pays off to be strong and stand by the boundaries. Ultimately the man who wants to tear them down and violate you and demean is not worth your time and is not capable of respecting any boundaries.

      It will happen little by little as I'm sure Sabrina can attest to. I dated an asshole last year that found his way into my heart and when he was sure he was there, he started ripping apart my boundaries, which were weakened because of my strong affection for him.

      What he ended up doing was not something I would have allowed if he had done it right away (which he knew). Men like this will test your boundaries and when they see that you have none or that they are weak they'll just go further and further. Although mine is an extreme example. Even nice guys are capable of it if you really have no boundaries. I have known guys who like me that had no boundaries and I had to cut them off because I didn't want to find myself disrespecting them. It does happen. Some people will lay down and ask you step on them..

      An example of how this horrible liar abused my boundaries. 1. asking me to send naked pics, and when I refused, insisting that I was insecure about my body.
      2. cancelling a date we had an that he knew I was very excited about to "punish" me for calling him out about the pictures he asked me to send and trying to manipulate me into sending them after I had refused.

      As you can see I set the boundary (you cant have naked pictures of me, you cant manipulate me into sending them, that's not ok) and it was very weak because I liked him that much. he then cancelled the date to hurt me because he knew that it would. I was so devastated and confused, i forgot about my boundaries and ended up apologizing when I should have blown him off.

      Once he saw that I had weak boundaries he kept going and for months I saw myself becoming a very sad person and losing my self respect in the process. I finally cut him off one day, but at least I know now that boundaries are incredibly important.

      Hopefully one girl reads this and has the same realization

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    4. WOW! You inspire me. I am crawling up from that dark place now. Hearing your story gives me the strength needed to come out of the pit and take the bull by the horns. Thank you.

      Delete
    5. I was really moved by your reply. I would like to recommend some books for you that I read while I was crawling out of my dark place. These books helped enormously - they helped me to understand who I was, what I wanted, to fully embrace my sexuality and sensuousness, to understand men, the kinds of men out there, what men wanted ... and to realize that I was in fact special and only a special man would be able to win me. Every woman should feel like this. The books below were all insightful and informative, the ones marked with * were the ones that especially resonated and made me do a 180.
      *Getting to "I Do"
      *Every Man Sees You Naked
      Why He's Dating Her (Instead of You)
      Women Men Love, Women Men Leave
      The Man Whisperer
      Men, Love & Sex
      For Women Only, What You Need to Know About the Inner Lives of Men

      I would also like to add: I now believe that a woman does not need to look for a man. Men's radar is always operative, they are always scanning for women. If a man is available and interested, he will approach. Never approach a man (if what you ultimately desire is a relationship not FWB), because a man will almost always take the opportunity for 'free' sex and then leave the woman in the lurch and in pain. So don't bother with men that don't approach you (unless you are an Alpha female and truly feel most comfortable with a Beta male.) You can gauge a man's sincere interest in you (i.e. desire to win you) by whether he approaches you or not.

      Delete
  16. Can't believe u deleted my post. Good thing I saved it... I'll change it up for you so you don't freak out.

    I like this post. Andrew, I'm glad you were able to get past all that racial nonsense, and get back to your roots.

    I read that book about 6 months ago too. It's not the kind of book I normally read, but I found it highly entertaining and rather helpful. I quoted it often when my girlfriends were making huge, desperate mistakes with loser guys.

    Anyway, I agree with you that many women could possibly misinterpret what the author is saying and start acting like hosebeasts in an effort to attract men. But overall, I believe she has some great advice. She tells women to get a life, and have enough self-worth to let a guy do the pursuing. The best piece of advice I give single women these days is to be a lot less available. "Stop planning your entire life around this dude. Do your own thing and show him that you have a lot going for you."

    Andrew, while you give great insight and advice, I think you are missing a crucial piece of the boundary issue here: Sex. I don't fault you for it because you aren't a chick. You can't possibly understand how sexual intimacy blurs boundaries so quickly for MOST of the female species, but trust me it does. Yes, I read your "don't eff on the first date" post. But you have to agree that it is next to impossible to create strong healthy boundaries and keep a guy interested, when women are giving it up so quickly (as in not really knowing the guy yet) these days.

    Thoughts??

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    1. Actually i was hoping you'd repost it because i didn't want to delete it, but i had to. Glad you saved it.

      Delete
    2. Regarding the sexual boundaries thing, i think its only difficult/"blurry" if you define them to narrowly. If you wait until a guy is your boyfriend before having sex with him, most of those difficulties will be gone.

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    3. how do you let him know you want to wait until you're exclusive before sex? Some guys may run without the chance of knowing maybe you're worth waiting until exclusivity or worse, some may pull off the "oh yeah we are bf/gf" in order to have sex? i see so many bullshit relationships that seem more like FWBs. Sex, a few kisses and dinners here and there until someone better comes a long. I want to know the guy is truly, honestly committed to me before we jump in the sack. At one point I considered waiting till engagement because i know i will be emotionally attached, but exclusivity is good enough.....

      -N

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    4. Andrew~ I understand. No worries, it's in the vault :-). And yes, that's what I'm saying. Girls need to wait. They (we) have sex too soon, become emotionally attached, and then agonize over the guy's questionable behavior afterwards. Waiting (maintaining strong boundaries) helps establish trust and prevents a world of insecurity and hurt.

      N.B.~ Good for you. If he doesn't wanna wait, then he doesn't really wanna be with you. You would wait for someone you knew was worth it, wouldn't you? I know I would. Character is what matters...the sex is a bonus.

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    5. sMaRtGiRl

      certainly! My problem is wondering what he truly feels about me. I repeat: Too many relationships are dressed up FWBs. Sure, no relationship is 100% but I'd like to know that I had sex and spent all these years with a guy who had mutual feelings. I wouldn't want to know I was deeply in love and imaging a future with a man who was waiting for a better girl to come a long but stuck around for sex and female companionship. I need to know how I'd figure out how serious he is about commitment. Sure waiting a long time can help, but waiting too long is risky as well. Hope Andrew helps me out with this!

      "Women may fake the orgasms, but men fake the whole relationship" -Sharon Stone

      -N

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    6. sMaRtGiRl
      "Waiting helps establish trust and prevents a world of insecurity and hurt."

      I agree 100% sMaRtGiRl. But every girl in the world knows that from a young age - so I’ve always wondered why don't women just wait? Because men with options don't have to wait - they'll just move on to the next woman who is just as attractive and intelligent and will have sex quickly.

      Women can/will only wait – i.e. maintain her boundaries - with men who are at or below their league. She will loosen her boundaries with hot guys out of her league. So the real problem is women who want to date above their league. They reckon by having sex early he might develop feelings and stick around.

      There is no way in the world I (or any sensible guy) would wait/commit to a girl unless I knew what I was committing to.

      Delete
    7. N.B., HanSolo made a really good post about slowly escalating the relationship sexually.

      http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2013/07/do-you-really-want-dating-to-be-easier.html?showComment=1373728718212#c1266396550703019871

      Give him a trial of the goods, so as Thomas mentioned, the guy knows what he is committing to. As others have said, be assured that if he's worth it, he'll commit for the full package.

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    8. N.B,

      I think Thomas last line is very important. You should also give guys a little credit, not all guys are lying jerks as the ones you described.

      Funny, I just sent Andrew an email about leagues, maybe you can give me some info too, what defines league? Looks, money, power? What does it entail? I'm in college, so as far as career/money, we are all in the same league. What does leagues entail?

      Delete
    9. @ Thomas,

      no, no, no. A man who waits for a woman is not dating someone above his league. Two years ago, my current guy would have been waaaaaay above my league. But I changed a great deal in the past two years, in inner strength and outward appearance. A guy will wait for a woman he recognizes is a good woman. Just as women realize there are so few good men out there - and they recognize the rare one when they meet him, a man knows how hard it is to find a good woman, so when he meets one, he knows.

      Delete
    10. Sabrina
      "no,no,no. A man who waits for a woman is not dating someone above his league"

      I actually agree with you. A man will wait for someone in his league, but he will almost never, ever, wait for someone beneath his league. You probably underestimated yourself and were a better catch than you realized :)

      If this isn't the case I would guess you're an exception. It often happens that a woman will stretch her boundaries depending on how hot the guy is. So the hotter the guy, the quicker she'll sleep with him and the messier the emotional fallout.

      Lesson for today: maintain the same boundaries no matter how attracted to the guy you are.

      Delete
    11. You know a guy is your boyfriend when he's introduced you to his friends and family as your girlfriend. If you meet some people he knows, and he introduces you as his friend, or just by your name, he's not your boyfriend.

      Delete
    12. Sorry! I meant he introduces you as HIS girlfriend, of course!

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    13. N.B.~
      I feel you. How do you know?? I like your Sharon Stone quote, but I heard it like this: "women fake orgasms to have relationships. Men fake relationships to have orgasms"...shame huh?

      Thomas~
      You are spot on about maintaining the same boundaries no matter what. I "stretched" my boundaries for a guy once and it was a huge mistake. He wasn't "out of my league" (not possible...jk), but he WAS cRaZy hot. I think the chemistry/lust just took over. Anyway, it was a messy way to learn an important lesson.

      On a side note, I always enjoy your comments. I like your brain :-)

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    14. Thanks sMaRtGiRl :)

      I'll keep an eye out for your comments.

      Delete
    15. "women fake orgasms to have relationships. Men fake relationships to have orgasms"

      it's win-win!

      Delete
    16. You mean, its "lose-lose".

      Delete
  17. I think the thing with beautiful women appearing as if they have strong boundaries because of their options is more a matter of simply moving on to the next guy (since there are plenty) without examination or thought of why she is nexting the guy. She doesn't enforce the way she wants to be treated but just churns through guys hoping to find one who "just knows."

    Being tough and strong and being a bitch are not at all the same thing.

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  18. I love this post! Best and most important post so far, I hope you single this out as one of your blog basis posts such as "Don't F*ck on the First Date".

    However I think Why Men Love Bitches was a good book. Though Andrew elaborated it more clearly, I think the book still delivered a similar message. I think women are better at implications and getting "around" the point whereas men need straightforward, direct answers. So women get the jist while men like Andrew dislike how it 'skirts' around the point.

    Report vs Rapport. This is why women and men don't get each other....

    ReplyDelete
  19. Not sure why you deleted my post, or if it was a glitch. Anyway, here it goes again...
    ------------------

    Hmm... that's an awfully fine line between strong boundaries and bitchiness. I think the male analogy of confidence/asshole is accurate, but also maybe misleading.

    It seems to me that there is much more leeway for a guy looking for the proper amount of confidence without going into counterproductive asshole-territory. What I mean is that a guy can go fairly deep into asshole territory and still attract women. Just look at all the abusive relationships women stay in, the serial-killer groupies, and on and on. Women are, unfortunately for most guys, very forgiving of assholishness.

    On the other hand, a woman who dips into bitch territory even a little will immediately and actively repulse men (unless she's super hot of course, in which case they'll put up with it a bit more).

    It's a lot trickier for a woman to have good boundaries while at the same time not crossing over the bitch line, because for men, there is absolutely nothing worse than a bitchy woman (except for an ugly bitchy woman I suppose).

    The line between strong boundaries and bitchiness is not at all well defined in real life. Andrew states that “a lot of people with strong boundaries are perceived as (or actually are) assholes and bitches”. Therein lies the trickiness for a woman trying to form strong boundaries, which is the boundary strength-level this article advocates.

    I haven't read the book, but it seems like there's some projection going on.

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    1. To further clarify, bitches are not just a subset of ppl with strong boundaries. Rather, they are at the extreme end of boundary-strength.

      doormats --> weak boundaries --> medium boundaries --> strong boundaries --> bitches

      All too often, a bitch is simply someone who over-zealously guards her strong boundaries. Some even take it a step further and not only overly-defend their boundaries, but go so far as to thrust their "boundaries" onto others to the point of crossing the other person's boundaries.

      The male analogy would be:

      doormats --> low confidence --> medium confidence --> high confidence --> asshole

      Andrew's Venn diagram is not quite right because the border separating "assholes and bitches" from "people with strong boundaries" is clearly defined, when in reality it is a blurry grey area.

      The difficulty, as I said, is that women are far more forgiving of men who stray into asshole territory than men are of women who stray into bitch territory.

      Delete
    2. Is a hot girl more likely to have strong boundaries or is an ugly girl more likely to have strong boundaries? I'm not sure... I think hot girls. But maybe that's because no one can tell whether or not you HAVE strong boundaries, only whether or not you ENFORCE strong boundaries.

      A hot girl may or may not have strong boundaries. But if she does, she is more able to enforce them without suffering negative consequences.

      An ugly girl may or may not have strong boundaries. But if she does, she is less able to enforce them without suffering negative consequences.

      By "negative consequences" I mean in the realm of attraction, where miscalibrated strong boundaries can stray into man-repulsing bitch-territory.

      Delete
    3. "An ugly girl may or may not have strong boundaries. But if she does, she is less able to enforce them without suffering negative consequences."

      Yes, which is why ugly girls (or I should say "lazy", as I've been told there are no ugly women, just lazy ones..) are more likely to have casual/non-committed sex or just generally, more partners.
      Ending up with a high count of partners is a result of weak boundaries. A post at Hooking Up Smart, which this blog linked to, showed research that less attractive girls had more sexual partners. A woman with a wide variety of options is more likely to show strong boundaries in example #2 than an unattractive one.
      Attractive women are forced to filter more than unattractive women, and having boundaries is crucial to setting up a good filter. So I disagree with the statement in the post. It is not my experience that attractive women have weaker boundaries - rather the opposite.

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    4. I beg to differ. First, the distinction between hot and ugly is an oversimplification. There are far more factors to attraction. There are women who are naturally beautiful but whose personalities are asexual, average looking women with 'that something' and many other who cannot be clearly categorized as 'hot' or 'ugly'.
      Second, strong boundaries in most cases are a consequence of reasonable upbringing and that has nothing to do with attractiveness. Bitchiness may be a cover up for deep insecurities but by bitchiness i mean actually being mean or completely selfish. Truly secure men do not choose to put up with this just so that some local starlet gives them attention.
      I think the reason why you think attractive women have stronger boundaries it's because you only consider a woman attractive if she's unavailable or difficult to you. Most people are wired that way, men or women. We think badly of ourselves, so everyone who thinks we're in their league must be just as flawed as we are and completely unworthy.
      The insecurities are detached from physical attractiveness. A person who's insecure walks all over 'unsuitable' candidates but loses all their boundaries when someone 'hot' comes along. A secure person wants only to be loved and respected by another secure person. I think this has nothing to do with looks, but as for insecure people, looks may determine how will their insecurity surface: as an asshole, a doormat or most commonly, a bit of both depending on a situation.

      Delete
    5. “First, the distinction between hot and ugly is an oversimplification."
      ---------------
      Yes, of course it’s an oversimplification. “Hotness” is not binary. It’s a spectrum. Heck, some men even use a 1-10 rating scale lol.


      “Second, strong boundaries in most cases are a consequence of reasonable upbringing and that has nothing to do with attractiveness.”
      ---------------
      Having strong boundaries may or may not be due to being hot. I could easily argue that being hot can cause one to build up strong boundaries. But certainly there are many ways to gain strong boundaries, even if they weren't brought up that way. Similarly, a person can gain confidence over time even if he grew up not having any. But my point was not about having strong boundaries, but rather enforcing strong boundaries. This is where I argue hotter women have an easier time of it, for the reasons stated in my previous posts.


      “Truly secure men do not choose to put up with this just so that some local starlet gives them attention.“
      ---------------
      Not sure what you mean by “starlet”. But anyway, insecure men will be scared off by a hot bitchy woman. Secure men may or may not tolerate bitchiness from a hottie. But they’ll certainly tolerate more of it from a hot girl than from an ugly girl.


      “I think the reason why you think attractive women have stronger boundaries it's because you only consider a woman attractive if she's unavailable or difficult to you. Most people are wired that way, men or women. We think badly of ourselves, so everyone who thinks we're in their league must be just as flawed as we are and completely unworthy.”
      ---------------
      This is just plain wrong. I don’t mean this as an attack, but are you a man or a woman? I'm just curious because I can’t imagine any man would put any stock in what you just said. That’s just not how men work. A man can find a woman in a magazine attractive. He can find a woman seen from the rear across a room attractive. He can find a woman walking down the street attractive... all without knowing one single thing about her. Before a man has any idea whether a girl is “unavailable or difficult”, he will already have made a judgment based on her looks alone. Hell, even women can find a man hot without ever interacting with him. I don’t understand what you are saying at all.


      "We think badly of ourselves, so everyone who thinks we're in their league must be just as flawed as we are and completely unworthy."
      ---------------
      Wow that's pretty fucked up. I hope that's not as common as you think it is.


      “The insecurities are detached from physical attractiveness. A person who's insecure walks all over 'unsuitable' candidates but loses all their boundaries when someone 'hot' comes along. A secure person wants only to be loved and respected by another secure person. I think this has nothing to do with looks, but as for insecure people, looks may determine how will their insecurity surface: as an asshole, a doormat or most commonly, a bit of both depending on a situation.”
      ---------------
      Sorry, I don’t really know what you’re saying here. A secure person can want all kinds of things, including to be loved and respected by another secure person, but also including just sex.

      Delete
    6. Well my post is a little long but my most relevant point is that women measure their success by their ability to deal with men their league or above. So a woman who's a 9 might feel insecure about a man who's a 10 despite having great success with 6es. Same with a 7 guy who knows that 9 girl will not be over impressed by how many hearts he broke if the women he's been dating are more in the 5-6 area. Insecurity causes the blurring of boundaries. So if you're a 7 guy you might feel that the 9 girl has strong boundaries but that's because she doesn't really care that much about the outcome of your encounter. That same girl will be giving up her boundaries when faced with the 10 guy. If you meet a 6 or 5 girl you might feel that her boundaries are easily overcome; but not so by the 4 guy!
      Point being: women that you find attractive are probably of higher or equal league to you so they know 'they can have another you in a minute' and thus are comfortable in enforcing boundaries.
      You can argue that it proves your point, but take into account that hotter women have a subset of men that are too scared to hit on them so they can exercise boundaries. Same way plainer women will doubly have their boundaries attacked by the 10 guy. So each woman lives in her[-2:+2] bubble.
      An example of strong boundaries will be a 6 girl who's asked by the charming 10 guy to go to his place after they meet at the bar. Or a 6 guy who refuses to be friendzoned by the 9 girl who rejected him and moves on with his life. An 8 girl who says no to a 6 guy's offer to have sex with him does not have strong boundaries if she wouldn't do the same to a 10 guy - and that's the one whose opinion on her boundaries she actually cares about.
      *a starlet is a woman that all the guys are crushing on - usually the most popular and often also most physically attractive from the group (but not necessarily). I suppose it's more common in the teenage years and early twenties when men tend to be very insecure about talking to women and they care about the opinion of their peers more than anything in the world. With time they develop more personalized taste.

      Delete
    7. @James:

      “I think the reason why you think attractive women have stronger boundaries it's because you only consider a woman attractive if she's unavailable or difficult to you. Most people are wired that way, men or women.”
      ---------------
      "This is just plain wrong...He can find a woman walking down the street attractive... all without knowing one single thing about her. Before a man has any idea whether a girl is “unavailable or difficult”, he will already have made a judgment based on her looks alone."
      ---------------
      Quoting Andrew: "When a man meets a woman who lets him (or others) walk all over her boundaries, or even define them, he concludes that she doesn't respect herself, and therefore, that she must not be someone worthy of respect. Even if she is beautiful, his attraction for her will soon plummet."

      Delete
    8. I'm not sure about 'Anonymous' but James is clearly talking about visual/physical attraction; what I'm talking about is the kind of attraction needed to sustain a long term relationship. This kind of attraction can slightly alter one's perception of another turning an average looking appear beautiful and a beautiful looking woman appear average.

      Delete
    9. Another thing...

      Even in the context of a long term relationship and maintaining attraction, the line between strong boundaries and bitch is still pretty blurry and tricky to gauge for women. That part of what I said is true for initial attraction and within a relationship. As is the fact that a beautiful woman will be able to get away with more bitch-line crossing.

      Delete
    10. [this is supposed to go ahead of my last post but it got deleted]

      Jane,

      Yeah you're right, I was talking mainly about physical attraction. I suppose good boundaries in a woman may help sustain a long term relationship. To be honest though, that's not in the top 5 or even top 10 things I would have come up with. I mean when you ask a guy "what do you look for in a wife?", I doubt "strong boundaries" will come up.

      I don't know. Maybe it's because I've never dated a woman with crazy weak boundaries. I suppose it could be pretty annoying. I've just never met anyone like that. My female friends and the women I've dated all just have plain old normal boundaries. Is it really that common?

      In Andrew's examples, I can see anyone (man or woman) behaving in all those ways at one time or another, depending on mood, how tired they are, how hurried they are, etc etc. I think you women may be overthinking things a bit there.

      I also find what Anon said hard to believe, that most people "think badly of ourselves, so everyone who thinks we're in their league must be just as flawed as we are and completely unworthy."

      Don't get me wrong, I think all women are a little crazy haha, but I don't believe that they're all mentally ill.

      Delete
    11. @James:

      "I mean when you ask a guy "what do you look for in a wife?", I doubt "strong boundaries" will come up."

      Without sounding offensive, I don't think most men know what they look for in a long term partner. I know for most they just make their assumptions based on previous failed relationships and/or how they're feeling in the moment i.e. do the positive experiences outweigh the negative. Of course their not going to mention 'strong boundaries' but the woman they commit to or that they find themselves crazy in love with will most likely be exhibiting traits akin to someone with strong boundaries.

      "In Andrew's examples, I can see anyone (man or woman) behaving in all those ways at one time or another"

      That's true but from my understanding the examples are there to reinforce the underlying message that in a relationship it is beneficial for a woman to embody a strong character if she is to be treated with the respect she desires - you can't get something for nothing.

      "I also find what Anon said hard to believe, that most people "think badly of ourselves, so everyone who thinks we're in their league must be just as flawed as we are and completely unworthy."

      I agree with you on this point which is why I removed it from my quote in my first response to you.

      Delete
    12. James,
      In defense of women, MEN are crazy too. I bet you can think of at least one example ;)

      I used to think whether some of the things I've done could be construed as being crazy, but in the end I realized that I didn't really give a shit whether it did or not.

      When I look for a man to marry, here are some qualities that make my top 10 list:

      1. Taller than me in 3.5" heels
      2. Likes basketball, monopoly, scrabble (and is good at them)
      3. Hot
      4. Smart
      5. Smarter than me
      6. Lives within a $10 cab ride from me
      7. Likes to travel
      8. Isn't a mother fucking asshole who is spineless; I like men with balls
      9. Makes me happy
      10. Wants me in spite of my (oh so very few) flaws :)

      -Lebronna

      Delete
    13. along with #2, I would hope he has an aptitude for croquet

      Delete
    14. I was proving Andrews point that hot women in no way exceed plainer women in personal boundaries. To make it even simpler: hot girl doesn't care if an ugly insecure guy will stick around, therefore she can be a bitch to him. She cannot do that to a hot guy, cause he won't stick around if the girl is bitchy. It's a matter of perspective. If you're the ugly guy, you'll think that the hot girl had strong boundaries.

      Delete
  20. I agree that this is your best post yet. Well done Andrew

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's even better now that I've gone through and corrected all the shitty grammar and typos.


      ...but thanks.

      Delete
  21. I love this blog by y is it purple its about dude mind

    ReplyDelete
  22. Great Post!!! I don't know if I like sherry Argov ... I still prefer the rules!

    ReplyDelete
  23. Andrew,

    Do you think it's possible to demonstrate strong boundaries, when up until this point you have had pretty weak boundaries? I'm in a relationship right now and I would really like to save it and make it something long-term, is it possible to change the degree of your boundaries mid-relationship?

    Gracie

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is a good question. I think the answer is yes, but it won't be easy. A sudden step-change in your boundaries is likely to shock your man. I would try to change them gradually, starting in small matters, and then moving into bigger ones.

      Delete
    2. How should a person do this? Suppose that a man is always late or reschedule a lot.

      She is always running on his time, instead of hers. Suppose that a man comes over and she cooks for him, but he has never taken her out to eat. He feels that there is no point since she always does the cooking.

      Delete
    3. With the time thing, you just start doing your own thing. For example, let's say you have a plan to meet on Saturday to go shopping together in the "early afternoon." If he doesn't contact you by 12 or 1pm, just go alone, without telling him. When he contacts you at 2 or 3pm, just tell him "Oh I just went without you."

      With the cooking thing, you just start telling him that you don't have time to cook tonight, and tell him what ever else you have to do instead, even if it is just getting to bed earlier, or reading a book.

      If you are living together but aren't married, you are already demonstrating very weak boundaries. Why would you let a man LIVE with you - cook for him, let him fuck you any time he wants, etc. when he hasn't promised to be with you for the rest of his life? Talk about getting the short end of the deal...

      Delete
    4. For some women, a man's being late on dates can be a deal breaker....

      Delete
  24. I just read this and so many of the Rules Revisited articles and llooovveeee this blog. The author sounds freaky smart!!! how the hell are u so smart? are u still single after all these posts??

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not to take anything away from Andrew, but this stuff is common knowledge among men. I guess that's obvious since he's talking about what men think. Andrew is just being honest about it. Most men would not be this honest to you in real life because most women just don't want to hear it or don't care. Men don't want the drama that would come with this much honesty.

      Delete
    2. I am a female. Women strongly desire that men be honest with them. Why would you think that women want to blindly go about dating and being slowly rejected with the fade away without the desire for self-improvement and improved outcomes? Men aren't honest with women because it would take their upper hand away from them when trying to get sex from us.

      Delete
    3. ----------------
      "Why would you think that women want to blindly go about dating and being slowly rejected with the fade away without the desire for self-improvement and improved outcomes?"
      ----------------

      Why would I think that? All guys think that. Maybe not in their youth, but we all learn it sooner or later.

      How do you think it generally goes over when a guy tells his gf "You look a lot better with makeup on" or "I don't care about your accomplishments"?

      Not too well.

      Or how do you think it would go over if a girl asks a guy why she isn't getting any dates and the guy tells her "because you're too fat"? or "because you have a shitty sense of style"?

      ----------------
      "Men aren't honest with women because it would take their upper hand away from them when trying to get sex from us."
      ----------------

      Yeah sure there's some of that. But that's secondary. We would tell you the truth if you didn't hold it against us.

      Delete
    4. Our reaction to the truth makes some men uncomfortable. This does not change the very real fact that women want to hear and know it. Hence, the popularity of this blog.

      Delete
    5. You can say the same about men. They constantly whine about women not being honest to them and that they've been "lied to" since they grew up thinking that being a gentleman is what matters.
      But if women ARE honest, saying that what really matters is whether a man is high status, powerful, rich and confident, we're shallow bitches. Because not every man is able to become high status and no man wants to hear that he'll never get a 9 or a 10. They'd rather live in denial, and blame the world.

      Delete
    6. Not necessarily. I was in a fuck buddy relationship with a much younger man. He asked me "how he was in bed". I told him he kissed like a girl and was too submissive in bed. (I worded this more nicely than that, btw.)_ He was very upset with my words and his ego was wounded. After several weeks, though, he contacted me, asking me if we could see each other again. He THANKED me for being honest with him. The truth hurts sometimes, but we DO want to hear it.

      Delete
    7. Our reaction to the truth makes some men uncomfortable. This does not change the very real fact that women want to hear and know it. Hence, the popularity of this blog.
      -------------------
      You don't want to hear it from a bf/husband though. Guys will tell you the truth anonymously. This site is anonymous. Even Andrew is anonymous.


      You can say the same about men. They constantly whine about women not being honest to them and that they've been "lied to" since they grew up thinking that being a gentleman is what matters.
      -------------------
      Not the same thing because most women truly believe that what they say they want is what the really want.

      Delete
  25. WOW thank you for this post. I needed it.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Grammar mistake in paragraph 10. "But none of these labels is accurate." Should read as "are".

    Good post, personally, I think it's your best.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nope, Andrew is correct. None is singular.

      E.
      BS in Mathematics

      Delete
    2. but the object of the preposition is plural. I think he should use "are" even though you are right that none is singular. We are talking about portions and such.

      Delete
    3. Agreed with Anon above. "Labels" which is the subject of the sentence is plural, therefore "are" is correct.

      Delete
    4. Labels is in the prepositional phrase; none is the subject. Since none is a singular noun, the correct verb would be is.

      Delete
    5. I like that people are paying attention.

      I actually debated this with myself while writing the post. I think that Amber is correct. "None" is the subject, and "of these labels" is just a prepositional phrase, so the verb should agree with "None," which is singular.

      Imagine replacing the word "None" with "no one." (None is merely a conjunction of "no + one.") You would not say "No one of these labels are accurate," you would say "No one of these labels is accurate."

      If anyone has a degree in English language, feel free to jump in.

      Delete
    6. I have a degree. Not to be pedantic but "are" is correct. I'm the anon from above. I wasnt asking, I'm telling you it is "are." I can't provide source now...a bit busy. We are referring to portions.
      I'll source later.

      Delete
    7. "Are" is clearly correct. And I don't need an english degree to tell you. :)

      Sorry Andrew my man.

      Don't replace with "no one". "No one of these labels is accurate" doesn't even make sense. Replace with "not one". "Not one of these labels are correct".

      Delete
    8. Why would replacing it with "no one" be considered? None is a different word, and has a different connotation than "no one" so they can't be compared. "Are" would be correct because the labels listed in the sentence are plural. If this is the case, the latter part of the sentence should be pluralized as well.

      Delete
    9. I just took a look at several grammar websites and they all said that "none" can be either singular or plural when it describes countable items. So there is no right answer. See here: http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxnoneis.html

      LisaNova, take a look at the link in my comment above for the etymology of "none."

      Delete
    10. "Are" is correct. Think about it this way, you wouldn't say "None is correct", you'd say "None are correct".

      Delete
    11. ITA with 'are'. Labels is a countable noun, alas I vote for plural. If an uncountable noun like 'money' had been used instead, I would've voted for 'is'.

      http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/none-or-none-are?page=all

      Delete
  27. Great job Andrew. I agree with you that this is your most important/best post to date. I've been waiting for sth like this for so long. I was smiling the whole time while reading it. I've been having this theory about the real secret of an attractive woman in mind for a while and you just confirmed it. Thank you so much and keep up the good work!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  28. This post is great Andrew. I'd like to thank you for writing your blog, it is nice to think that even based on your womanizing experience you are actually teaching women to be strong, confident ladies with boundaries and class. I was run over by a guy recently and your posts made me chin up and walk away with smile. This is why I always wanted a big brother:) I wish I had one like you!

    ReplyDelete
  29. First time reader. Love the blog Andrew. My only comment is I know plenty of men (who usually over-evaluate themselves) and plenty of women (who under-evaluate themselves). But like your footnote says, with time, experience, and maturity - they usually balance out. Some women with strong boundaries I know actually aren't all that great (do drugs etc.) while some women with weak boundaries are really kind and G-d following people. I think this also plays into couple dynamics. A strong boundary person usually pairs better with a medium boundary person. Two strong boundary people means both are alphas and fighting to get their way. Just my two cents. What do you think about that?

    ReplyDelete
  30. This could be the tipping point for this blog...!!!...great job as usual Andrew!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  31. Andrew-this was a thoughtful post, and pretty good even though you forgot certain categories of women. It's good that you can vent on your blog and some of your suff is interesting, but you remind me of John Draper from Mad Men. You have potential but you always seem to have a weird subset of views that is fucked up, and you seem to be your own worst enemy. I would love to hear about some of the women you date. You probably date bitches because they represent something unattainable to you; confidence. Maybe they are attractive too, but you seem superficial and misguided, and probably think that by association with bitches you come across as strong, and maybe mature.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wow, that was rude. How can you assume to know so much about him just from reading his blog? And will you elaborate please? Which views are "fucked up"? I'm not defending him, but I think if you are going to offer criticism you could at least have the courtesy to be specific and constructive.

      Delete
    2. @Anonymous DON Draper, lol

      Delete
  32. I love the post!

    I'll throw in my two cents... I don't think being beautiful contributes to women having poor boundaries as much as having poor boundaries often contributes to women being beautiful :).

    Example, I swing from a 6 to an 8, give or take, depending on amount of effort (re Andrew's Feminine Beauty Is Highly Controllable). I'm less secure, so I put in more effort than average.

    I saw a Howard Stern show once and he was interviewing these girls that were dancers, he made the comment [paraphrased] Thank goodness for absent or bad dads, I don't know where the world would be without all the hot women.

    So, since beauty is controllable, you see a disproportionate number of hot women that are insecure with bad boundaries.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. agree. Absent or bad fathers can control how confident or insecure a woman is!!

      Delete
    2. Have you not considered that some of those women were insecure or lacked in confidence prior to their partner becoming absent or bad? I don't deny that an absent partner or bad father can make someone's insecurity levels rocket but let us not forget that many of these "hot" women who haven't chosen a life of celibacy turn into "crazy", paranoid women. The psychological and emotional impacts on their child(ren) can be devastating.

      Delete
  33. Andrew - I'm not sure if you're aware of this but there is an evolutionary reason for why women with strong boundaries (or women that are hard to catch) are seen as attractive. The first reason is that the woman indirectly communicates to a man that she highly values her genetic make-up therefore any man wanting to mate with her has to prove himself to be worthy - this challenge in itself is attractive to a high testosterone male. Closely linked to this point is that the man will also assume that once he has won her over she is more likely to be loyal to him as is he to her due to his effort exerted; plus most women with strong boundaries do not enjoy dating due to the arduous process of having to filter out ineligible men, such as players or men with weak boundaries ("nice guys").

    From personal experience, to sustain a man's interest in "the chase" a woman has to slowly reveal a multi-faceted personality, for example, if he's only ever seen her dressed casually or in work clothes with her hair tied up she should find a good opportunity to exploit her full beauty by wearing a beautiful dress with her hair down but the dress still leaves more to be seen.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Will we ever get to see what Andrew looks like? One measly photo would do.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Andrew is hot. I've slept with him a few times.

      Delete
    2. Funny, even if Andrew is good-looking, I wouldn't have characterized him as hot (sorry Andrew).

      He refers to women as 'girls',
      He has said elsewhere that he's providing this blog analysis because women don't analyze and men do,
      He's told us he'll enter a bar and hit on many women.
      He thinks bars is a good place to meet women. (Andrew, if you're wondering why you haven't found a keeper, think about this.)

      For many women, hotness in a man = physical characteristics + capacity to induce admiration & respect.

      No offense meant Andrew, and not at all meaning this as a personal attack so please don't take it as such. Just objective analysis based on observations, and based on how (at least some of) we women think. But if I met Andrew, I'm sure I'd just smile politely and keep moving.

      Delete
    3. To the Anon who said she has slept with him a few times-- this is highly doubtful. I have a hunch Andrew himself wrote that comment.

      Delete
    4. @Sarah

      Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was a joke.

      Delete
    5. Isabel
      I take issue with your comment.

      “He refers to women as ‘girls’”

      I’m not sure why you disapprove of this terminology but I don’t think referring to women as ‘girls’ is derogatory or condescending. I often use the term in a colloquial affectionate sense, rather than implying anything negative. I might have inferred something you didn’t mean to imply though.

      “He has said elsewhere that he’s providing this blog analysis because women don’t analyze and men do”.

      I don’t remember reading that from Andrew, however, I think it’s reasonable for him to suggest that men are a little bit more analytical about dating, and judge it less on emotion.

      He wrote this blog “as an outlet for voicing [his] astonishment at the typical female’s ignorance of the male mindset” I think this ambition is laudable. I have also been shocked at how some women can be so naïve when dating.

      “He’s told us he’ll enter a bar and hit on many women”

      What’s wrong with that? Are you implying that quality men don’t do that? Here’s a little secret: for any man to get anywhere in dating he has to get good at hitting on women. If you have a boyfriend, how did he learn anything? I’m always amused when women think their boyfriend just arrived in the world with the necessary skills to deal with women.

      “He thinks bars is a good place to meet women” (sic).

      In his description on how to meet men in bars Andrew actually advocates leaving early enough in the night to avoid certain types. I meet women in bars – they are intelligent, professional driven women. I’ve met doctors, lawyers and accountants in bars. Are these women not high quality women?

      “Andrew, if you’re wondering why you haven’t found a keeper, think about this.”

      Maybe Andrew doesn’t want a keeper yet.

      “hotness in a man = physical characteristics + capacity to induce admiration and respect”

      Funnily enough the quality of Andrew’s writing does indeed induce admiration and respect - from me!

      “If I met Andrew, I’m sure I’d just smile politely and keep moving”

      Andrew has written some very good posts on how to deal with rejection so I’m sure he’d manage.

      Isabel
      I don’t mean this comment as an attack, and I think you wrote the comment without any malicious intent but it does portray you in a poor light. I would encourage you to be less judgemental of those who choose to live their lives differently to you, and be more accepting of others.

      Delete
    6. @Thomas: I hope your admiration is platonic, otherwise Andrew's fan club of ladies will rip your eyes out. Semi-agree with your comment.

      @Ladies, Olivia, Sarah, Isabel:You either like Andrew's blog or you don't. I don't think he's always right, but I also think his intent is to provide his advice based on his experience and his interaction with men and women. I think you'd all be ultra naive to imagine that Andrew is offering dating advice and not at least getting laid.

      Delete
    7. I disagree.

      Andrew knows that he’s writing his blog for women not simply for teenagers but in addition for women in their 20s, 30s and 40s, i.e. he’s directed various comments as such and yet still uses ‘girls’ in these latter cases. Referring to women in their mid to late 20s, 30s and 40s as ‘girls’ reflects a particular mindset, one that places females in an inferior position. As a women, it feels degrading.

      I don’t take issue with going into a bar to meet people, if you’ve got other venues as well. But if your primary place to meet people is bars, that says something. I honestly got that impression from Andrew that bars are his primary go-to place. In addition Andrew has commented how he’ll go into a bar on evening and hit on as many women as possible to get their numbers. And he expressed wonder at why the women wouldn’t engage with hm. Women have radar. They know this is going on, and it implies something to them about a man. Men who play a numbers game … doesn’t suggest quality to many women. And honestly, maybe this is just me, but I wouldn't take seriously a man who hit on me in a bar.

      The opposite sex has every right to use whatever cues they can to assess folks, especially women who like to avoid men out to use women. Different strokes for different folks. Just saying. And just saying that women use many factors in determining how attractive they consider a man. Andrew’s blog is well written and thoughtful, but to make an analogy a Nobel prize in literature won’t make a man more appealing to a woman if he, say, is verbally abusive to the woman.

      Many, many women do objective analysis of their relationships and of men. I’m very sorry that neither you nor Andrew have met these women. There are plenty of us out there. This comment again smacks of a feeling of superiority with respect to women. I’m sure you would take umbrage at women stereotyping all men as unemotional misogynists. So please don’t do the equivalent to women.

      And your [sic] is incorrectly noted (and by the way, noting something like that doesn’t reflect well on you because you intend it as a pointed dig at my intelligence, otherwise you’d let it go). In many dialects of English the copula ‘be’ can take agreement with the following predicate noun phrase (e.g. singular in this case), and not with the grammatically plural subject. In this case, ‘bars’ acts as a kind of mass noun, for a type of place.

      I don’t want to get into a back & forth, so I’ll end my comments on this thread with this one.

      Delete
    8. You seem like a nice lady Isabel, but I have to state the below.

      1.
      "But if your primary place to meet people is bars, that says something. I honestly got that impression from Andrew that bars are his primary go-to place."

      You are completely assuming that this is the case and then you proceed to judge Andrew based on your assumption.


      2.
      Lastly, if you are going to critique someone severely on their English knowledge, I'd suggest you ensure your comment is flawlessly written first.

      "In addition Andrew has commented how he’ll go into a bar on evening and hit on as many women as possible to get their numbers." In the beginning of a sentence 'in addition' needs to be followed by a comma.

      On a similar note, a comma is unnecessary in "I don’t take issue with going into a bar to meet people, if you’ve got other venues as well." The subordinate clause is at the end alas why no comma is needed.

      A comma would have been acceptable had you said "If you've got other venues as well, I don't take issues with going into a bar to meet people." In this case the subordinate clause is at the beginning, so it’s necessary to insert a comma.

      I only pointed the above out as I perceived your criticism towards Thomas as supercilious. Not cool at all.

      Delete
    9. Starlight-you're missing a punctuation mark...BUT YOU ALREADY KNOW THAT. "The subordinate clause is at the end alas why no comma is needed."

      Can't we all just get along? :)

      Delete
    10. Andrew didn't write that he's hot. I love how most of you've turned out to be psychics and meteorologists.

      Delete
    11. @Anonymous July 20, 2013, 3:53 PM: Chill, of course he's getting some. But who would anonymously comment on a dating site's comment thread that she's slept with the site's author a few times? Kind of a joke.

      Delete
    12. Anonymous 7:55, of course we can all just get a long. :) Thanks for that... must've typed fast, lol. I honestly give a shiz about making the odd mistake here and there, but I do have one pet peeve - I hate it when someone is all haughty towards someone else, who was just being friendly.

      But yes, please let's just get along. :)

      Delete
    13. I've never knowingly slept with anyone who reads this blog, and I've been pretty careful to protect my anonymity, so I doubt the claim.

      Delete
    14. @Andrew

      Exactly

      Delete
    15. This is by far the most entertaining comment thread I've ever read.

      Delete
  35. Andrew-the diagram looks like two boobs. I think there is some overlap w personalities. I can be a bitch, probably an asshole, and depending on the circumstance I could exhibit strong or weak boundaries, but most of all I am a kind and charitable person. Further, I would suggest that you examine your moods and personalities and you'd probably notice instances where you were an asshole, displayed strong/weak boundaries, or have been kind. Cocktail for thought.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree with that - except the boobs thing. Those would be some fucked up nipples...

      Delete
    2. Speaking of which, one of the headlines in a newspaper I read describes more "indiscretions" of Anthony Weiner. My political views aside, I was really repulsed by his photo of his penis that he sent to someone. I don't know details because I didn;t read the article, but have two questions for readers and Andrew: (1) what is the real appeal of sending people nude photos? I can imagine, but just want to get other thoughts.. and (2) when it comes to zex, does size really matter? I think so, and would never date a guy whose measurements were below a specified number of inches. Is that a superficial thing or does pleasure take precedent?

      Delete
    3. Here's the penis shot: thedirty.com. Here's the article: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/anthony-weiner-apology-94626.html?hp=t1

      Delete
  36. I would just like to add a comment about this 1-10 scale. Oh, and also by the way, I really really love this post. It's something I've really become aware of in the past few weeks before I even saw it. Also, I am a pretty girl and have had weak boundaries for the greater part of my life, and just recently started working on making them stronger. I also do know a lot of beautiful girls who are particularly kind and basic people pleasers. I don't know if this is because we grew up being praised and idealized for our beauty, so we don't want to do anything that would tear apart that image in other people's eyes. Or if it's because there is a correlation with estrogen and female beauty. And that estrogen increases empathy in a person, along with traits of kindness, compassion, and agreeability.

    I would always look at less attractive girls who had no qualms about being bitchy, aggressive, or strong-headed even to the point of bullying. I admired that because it was hard for me to do. And I've always wondered that as I said, because I know a lot of other pretty girls who act just like me.

    As for this 1-10 scale, I watched this documentary on the science of sex appeal and they said that most of the things that men seek in a mate were mostly physical cues of the female's reproductive capabilities. But it is not the same for women. For instance, there was a guy who most of the people in the lab rated a 9. They took the picture of the guy and put on some basic info about him, like that he worked at Starbucks, and asked a bunch of people on the street what they would rate him. The women mostly rated him as a 4 now. Another guy who was rated a 4 in looks went up to an 8 when it said that he made six figures, and had a good job, and a good title. So when we're talking about leagues here, are we simply talking about physical looks for men? A man that looks like a 3 may look like he may be in a lower league, but if he's a gazillionaire I think that bumps him up quite a lot. Any thoughts?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The idea of getting honest opinions from people just off the street is the flawed one. The phrasing of the question is quite important too. I think women are very objective, honest and realistic when it comes to the physical looks of both men and themselves. They only don't like to admit it to others and sometimes to themselves. Sometimes the issues are clouded by imprecise questioning. Asking if a man is "attractive" can mean different things to different women - some will see attractive as someone she would date/marry. Others see attractive as sometime she would only sleep with. Others see attractive as how the media and culture defines attractive.
      Bear in mind too that women generally rate men as a "whole package" so a deficiency in looks may be made up for by income and character. Or else a lack of income and career may be made up for by looks and character.
      On the other hand, men tend to rate women on looks first, with other qualities going towards qualifying her existing looks. So is she is good looking and nice, it beats good looking but bitchy. If she is good looking but interesting and spontaneous, it beats look looking and stupid/dumb/boring.

      Delete
  37. How does a woman who had an emotionally connected texting relationship with a man redefine her boundaries? He sometimes suggested to meet but the motivations were pointing to something more superficial/physical and I would decline. A few weeks ago he ceased all contact. Said he would call me, and never did, never texted again. I'm still hurting from his disappearance. Should he ever reach out to me, or if I were to run into him, how would I respond? We did meet once in the beginning and I am attracted to him on many levels. I don't want to say anything resembling "fuck off". How do I explain my feelings while not slamming the door, keeping his respect for me high? I realize he may not give a shit anymore but just in case I wanted to post my Q. Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He clearly only wanted sex. Move on.

      Don't contact him. Don't purposefully avoid him, but don't accidentally bump into him either. If he says hello be courteous, but brief. You have somewhere to be, somewhere else to go, etc. Be vague when talking about your whereabouts as to keep him guessing.

      An excuse for not having greeted him first - "Oh, I didn't see you."

      Indifference is your friend. Use it to your advantage. Should he come around then make sure it is for the right reasons first.

      Delete
    2. Definitely move on. He's using the texting as bait. It's easy for women to create an emotional connection in their head over texting or email, filling in all the gaps - when a true emotional connection with the person doesn't exist. Remember that word, bait. It'll help you disengage.

      Delete
    3. Wow... BAIT. I never would have thought of it but it makes perfect sense. It explains a lot... you are right. I felt so connected and assumed he was feeling what I was... is your guess that he will never reach out again? Fortunately I did not get physical or my heart would be hurting far more than it is now. But I still want a connection with him. Isnt this crazy?

      Delete
    4. Same Above AnonymousJuly 24, 2013 at 10:39 PM

      I had a similar somewhat similar situation to yours, except I got really hurt. I have come to think of men like that as predators, so bait is a perfect metaphor.

      My experience in that situation and then a subsequent amazing relationship with another man has taught me that if a man truly wants you for the right reasons, he'll make sure you know it. You will never be left guessing. He'll want to reserve you so someone else doesn't take you from him.

      So I learned that men who disappear don't really want you, and they reappear in your life when their other 'game' dries up because they found they could hook you once and it's worth another try. Be strong. It doesn't mean that you're not worth wanting. It means that something is wrong with that guy (says something about his character doesn't it?). There will be a much better guy out there for you. If it happened to me, and I never believed there would be a guy out there for me like my current one, it can happen to anyone.

      Delete
    5. I thoroughly agree with your 2nd paragraph. Women should take note of that fact, that if a man really wants a woman for the right reason he'll try to get into a relationship with her and not lose her to another.

      I think that too many women are trying to win over men that are only lukewarm about them and not really into them enough, possibly because the men are of a bit higher value or just looking to play the field.

      Delete
    6. Yes!
      I wish every woman could have as their first relationship this type of 2nd paragraph man pursuing them. After that, it would be VERY clear what the behavior of the other men means. And the woman would never give them a second thought. Unfortunately, the latter type of connection is rare enough that it often comes only after many lukewarmers. If all you see is the lukewarmers, you think all men are like that.

      Delete
    7. I'm the OP... An adult dating now has to learn a whole different game and learn the new positions. .. unlike college where for me it seemed easy to figure out. Plus texting didn't exist!! We could interact in person mostly and read body language and voice tone. I think it helped us make less mistakes of the type caused by online pseudo relationships. ..

      Delete
    8. This is one reason I refuse to do online dating. Was pretty sure it wasn't for me, friend convinced me to try it for one week, but then my gut feeling was confirmed & I deleted my profile never to return. It's a huge time waster. All this backing and forthing with someone that seems plausible then talk to a guy on the phone and you can tell pretty soon something's not right. In person, it's even easier. Doesn't take 5 minutes - if you've thought very hard about what you want, have clear boundaries and know what you are looking for (and how to read the signs for it). So I still go about it the old-fashioned way. Online, not only do you not know who's trolling the waters, in fact I think online dating attracts a certain type of man (looking to sleep around only). I'd rather seek out men in person at places where men of the type I'd be interested likely will be and the user sharks not concentrated in such large numbers.

      Delete
  38. Hey Andrew,
    Can you start another blog for all the grammar police? It's gettin kinda crowded on this one.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Andrew, what about a girl who is doing everything "right" per your comment above, including maintaining strong boundaries in all areas of life (not just romantic interests, but work and friendships too), and can attract and maintain a lot of men, and keep them interested, but SHE isn't interested in these men? Tough luck?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Change your attraction triggers or stay forever unsatisfied or find that rare unicorn of a man that makes you interested.

      It's that simple.

      Delete
    2. I completely disagree with HanSolo. Don't settle. Ever. Speaking as someone who settled and married someone I wasn't physically attracted to ... and suffered greatly. Finally left and am much much happier. Only date men I am physically attracted to. I set the bar high, so like you I turn down a lot, because for me attraction also involves respect.

      I'd suggest that you try meeting men in different places than you usually have - baseball or football games, alumni events for your university are great places to meet men with whom you'll immediately have something to talk about, or networking events in your field of business, conferences in your industry. Maybe try hard to think about what type of man you are interested in, and brainstorm places where that man might hang out. For me, I'm attracted to athletes who are smart so I go to ivy alumni events associated with sports. Worked for me :)

      Delete
    3. My guess is that you are trying to find the kind of guy that you THINK you want rather than the guy you actually want.

      Delete
    4. I think what Cate said is a great idea.

      I previously put intelligence as the most important factor on what I get attracted to in men. Now I gradually begin to put physical stuffs(if he loves sports, and if he is healthy and energetic etc.) on the list too.

      The mindset of choosing where to go based on analysing where the quality guys would appear in, is a great idea too. I previously was a go-with-the-flow person, who just slipped into wherever I had idea about. I'm sure that intentional selection of places to go can mutiple the chances of the dating life.

      Delete
  40. I read of studies, which shows that women with college degrees are more likely to get traditional marriages than women under educated. Under educated women are more likely to become single mothers etc.

    Any thoughts on why? If men do not care about women's accomplishments, then why women with higher education and higher income are doing better in getting men's commitment as shown by real statistics? (While ironically enough, the women with lower incomes are in need of helps from men the most in raising kids. The higher income women need it less theoretically, yet, they are doing better in marriage scenes as statistics says.)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There are way more factors at work there than just a man's indifference to female academic accomplishment.

      For example, women who come from higher class families, who can afford university educations, are usually also expected to "settle down" and have a traditional family.

      Delete
    2. I am on online dating sites. Many men tell me they contact me because I have a Masters degree and seem intelligent to them. They also will mention that they noticed my line of work (health care field)and found it attractive.Are they just saying this because they think it is what I want to hear??

      Delete
    3. The value of academic degrees is cultural.

      Chinese and Indian, for example, look favourably upon tertiary degrees. Talk to them and you'll find out for yourself. I am guessing that because not every Chinese or Indian is able to go to a University attending one heightens your status.

      Delete
    4. @Anonymous

      Yes.

      Some men are just grasping at straws for anything to start a conversation. Others are sycophants and will praise you. Others are just trying to butter you up.

      Delete
    5. I just personally find intellectuals as quite appealing to me. I am unsure if it's because I subconsciously love the *social status* behind the intelligence? I doubt it's so because I am not excited hearing if someone is a mayor or billionaire(seriously and honestly), but I get excited hearing if some guy is very very intelligent.

      I think tertiary degree is just one aspect of intellectual competence. There are other factors at work also.

      Delete
    6. @Grace

      There definitely are some women that are highly turned on by highly intelligent men. There just don't seem to be so many in the US. I have a PhD in physics/astronomy and interestingly enough it was women in Latin America that were so fascinated by that and admired it much more than women in the US who tended to think it was more "nerdy" and not so attractive (though there are some who did admire it). With women in the US I have to count on other things to attract them more whereas in Latin America the intelligence and the degree and so on were much more admired.

      Are you from East Asia? I think I might remember you saying that. It seems that in that part of the world intelligence is much more admired by women.

      Delete
    7. Hans I'm swooning ;) I have a B.S. in mathematics, and M.S. in another field. I fell madly in love with a man with multiple degrees from Harvard and MIT. (We didn't work out.) I love nerdy types.

      E.

      Delete
    8. @E

      Good to know there are some of you nerd lovers out there. ;) Good luck with the next one.

      Delete
    9. I love nerdy type too. I have a B.S. in software engineering and masters in another field....

      But if a lot of women are drawn to other types than nerdy types, then it means that I have more chances with nerdy types now :). (And my stories on that was messy, so maybe not in details.)

      I also think that as soon as nerdy types of guys turn successful, the other women would begin to pay attentions to them again (A lot of successful guys started off as nerdy then end up being very successful with their skills and entrepreneurship in mind). But I see nerdy guys as people with intrinst values even if they never get the chance to be successful but remain normal persons, then they are still attractive in its own right.

      Delete
  41. In some way, women's requirement on men's lookings is more strict than that put on women by men.

    Because most women want guys who are *taller* than themselves. And as I see, it's next to impossible for a guy to improve his height, at least without plastic surgeries.

    Women do not have the pressures to be tall. And most of the requirements on women's lookings are about her shape/skin/hair. For the vast majority of women, as long as they get themselves in shape, to be thin enough, and nurture themselves good enough to have good skin and hair qualities, then have the hair done etc. Then the vast majority would look ok enough to pass threshold of looking for most men, if not highly attractive yet.

    In this regard, I think men are more hopeless when they are filtered out by their lookings. Since the looking part on men is impossible to change while that on women is way easier to change.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Agree with this. Men have the luxury of being able to compensate for their looks if they're unfortunate. But some women are quite visual and there is not much a man can do to change the crucial physical factors.
      He cannot control his height, penis size or do much about hair loss. He can work out, but men who are *naturally* well-built are always more attractive than men who look 'bulked up'.

      Delete
  42. wanna know how many girls andrew fucked

    ReplyDelete
  43. I just wrote a new post that shows that women are having sex with men that are hotter than them.

    http://www.justfourguys.com/study-shows-women-fuck-hotter-men/

    The most attractive men have the highest number of female sex partners and that decreases as the men's looks decreases.

    In contrast, the hotter the woman, the slightly fewer numbers of sex partners.

    For this to hold, it means that women of lesser looks are having sex with men of higher looks.

    Another very important part of the study and relevant to the many women readers here is that more men claimed they were in sex-only relationships while the women thought they were in exclusive dating relationships. And some of the sex-only relationships for the hottest men came from women of lesser looks.

    Basically, women need to realize that they can get sex from the hotter guys but it's harder to get him to really commit to someone he perceives to be of lesser value. Women need to be aware that this is going on and that either women are deluding themselves into thinking they're in a relationship or the man is lying while really thinking it's just sex.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I should clarify that my post is about an academic study of 14,000 people that shows this, not just me speculating about it.

      Delete
    2. This is very interesting, HanSolo! Will have a look. :)

      Delete
    3. Glad you found it interesting. I just responded to your question there.

      Delete
  44. Where do you draw the distinction between someone being easy going/flexible and having/not having strong boundaries? Because if the strength of your boundaries is used as an indication of your perceived self worth (and thus overall attractiveness), does this mean that more easy going people--who are genuinely not bothered as easily and thus "let more things go"--will be inevitably perceived as less attractive?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Great question Sarah, I am wondering the same thing! I had a texting relationship that went on for a while, because I liked it, it didn't bother me that it was text only, we had fun convo and banter, and I was hoping it would lead to a quality in person date... which it didn't. So did my going along with texting so long make me look like a woman of low self worth? We never slept nor did we fool around because there was no proper date. I'd never go along with a hookup. I only texted and once in a while it was mildly sexual in nature which he initiated... nothing graphic no pictures-- no way to that. Can't a respectable high value woman participate in this without diminishing her worth?

      Delete
  45. Not just me speculating about it also. Have you guys heard of a terminology "assortative mating" in social science?

    It suggests that people are attracted to people with similar traits to themselves. Does that make smarter guys get attracted to smarter women more?

    Here is the scientific study of mate choices in Assortative Mating: http://www.pnas.org/content/100/15/8805

    [Quote]: We conclude that, in Western society, humans use neither an “opposites-attract” nor a “reproductive-potentials-attract” decision rule in their choice of long-term partners but rather a “likes-attract” rule based on a preference for partners who are similar to themselves across a number of characteristics."[/Quote]

    It suggests that wealthier men choose wealthier women. And prettier women choose prettier men.

    Can I also conclude that maybe smarter guys choose smart girls?

    -----------------------------

    Whichever way it works like, it won't be wrong for women to do things like:
    1. Keep regular exercise to both improve looking and keep brain in sharp and clean states to be smart.

    2. Making efforts in careers at least for the sake of getting into the social circles of guys with higher achievement too. Also it saves up the pains in case guys turn unreliable and dump you in poverty.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Beauty in women suggests she is fertile to conceive a baby who would spend the first couple of its years in a healthy womb and with healthy nurture with breeding etc. which is crucial for a person's development with significance in lifelong well-being.

    Wealth/Social status in men suggests he has the capability to benefit the baby with money and social connections. But however much money spent can not compensate an unhealthy body from an unhealthy/ugly woman with bad fertilities(beauty). That is why beauty is important in women.

    BUT, have you forgotten about a 3rd factor in reproductive success? That is known as genetics. Be aware that finacial status does NOT always equal good genetics. And beauty in women mainly suggests her fertility to carry the baby well, NOT her genetics also.

    If the woman is smart, then the baby is likely to be smart too with good genes.

    If the man has good genes, but due to his bad luck such as he is born from a lower class and end up in poverty, then the baby can still benefit from him with the good genes.

    In this regard, there are deeper things at work other than lookings and social status.

    So I conclude that maybe some men care about women's smartness too. Just like I care about men's smartness even if he is in desperate poverty.



    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @Grace

      I think men want the woman to be above his looks minimum threshold and they use that as a first filter. Then if she passes that then he'll start to filter based on other things like personality, intelligence, goals, etc.

      Delete
  47. Not saying that I am higher league than other people because I am not *materialist*.

    I actually believe that my attraction to intelligence is no better than if people's attraction focuses on others' money -- so that they are gold diggers and I am not.

    I do not think it's the case. Instead, I think that attraction to intelligence is just as materialist as attraction to gold and prettiness. Because It's still about being attracted to traits with solid benefits behind it. In this regard, I am also a very selfish person who loves the idea hypergamy in regard of being with people smarter than myself.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Research papers in mating choices are arguing with each other too. Like this one confirms about reproductive potential attract theory in replace of likeness attract. It supports the idea that, high social status men go for beautiful women and vice versa. It does not second the idea that men with status seek women with status and women with beauty seek men with good lookings.

    http://www.pnas.org/content/104/38/15011.abstract


    Any way, do men prefer women who can run business with them together, who can share similar levels of intelligence to connect on the same levels, with similar hobbies? Or do men prefer home-oriented women who do not talk much except knowing how to cook, clean, and take care of babies?

    I see Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Bill Clinton etc. etc. all married women who are intelligent too. They did not instead marry someone hotter than their wives who were just normal girls.
    And in the case of Bill Gates, his wife could help him in running business with him together. So they share a lot more in common compared to hot women without brains. Clinton's wife helped him a lot in his career too(Ofc Clinton could have sex with the woman with less brains, but he never married someone like that).

    If men like such really do not care about women's intelligence/achievement, then maybe as women, we only need to stay as hot as possible and try to have social access with men as such(even as waitresses who wait tables?)

    ReplyDelete
  49. @Grace

    It's an interesting thing, how some high-status men marry women that aren't as beautiful as they can get. Bill Clinton fits the bill. Look at Michael Jordan's first wife. Look at NBA champion Dwayne Wade's wife, who's he's now divorcing but whom he met when young.

    The thing about many of these high status men like Clinton and Jordan is that they cheat a lot on the side with hotter women. So in the case of Bill, he forms the power couple with Hillary to pursue success and power together and then he gets the more attractive women and variety on the side.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Bill Clinton, and it looks like the other examples you cite, married their wives when they did not have the status they are known for ('first wife', 'met when they were young'. The Clintons were in law school. I think it's a good bet Bill didn't say to himself at the time 'I'll marry her so we can form a power couple'. So heir choice of wife at the time had to do with something else than their status, which they didn't have yet. For exame, en lag in maturity compared to women, so these men may have been young and emotionally vulnerable and the women they chose were their support pillars, made them feel strong.

      Delete
    2. Hillary was already a rising star and showed the makings of someone you could form a power couple with when they got married. See this summary of her career before she married at 28:

      http://www.biography.com/people/hillary-clinton-9251306

      Bill too was a rising star, working as a clerk for the Foreign Relations Committee under Senator Fulbright, being a Rhodes scholar and very interested in politics, all before marrying Hillary.

      http://www.biography.com/people/bill-clinton-9251236?page=2

      They both were ambitious and made a good couple in terms of ambition and ability. Plus, Hillary was fairly decent looking when she was younger.

      As to Michael Jordan, he was already a superstar when they married.

      http://marriage.about.com/od/sports/p/michaeljordan.htm

      Dwayne Wade is the one where they met young. I take it back that she wasn't that hot. Looking at pictures of her when younger she was quite attractive, though it sounds like she's kind of crazy and couldn't even get custody of her kids in the divorce. So, I was wrong about them, let's just remove Wade from that list.

      Delete
  50. @HanSolo

    I'm unsure if it's cultural differences or just my personal preferences. Because a lot of girls in my culture do not like nerdery guys either, they may be described as uninteresting.

    Because a lot of people I observe, got extremely wealthy through means of *corruptions*, by building sucess upon other people's sufferings. So I do not give a shit about them. Even if there is an era where intellectuals are persecuted, condemned for political reasons, I still find them attractive even if they are deprived of everything from them.

    Let me tell you about the tradition in which our princess in the ancient past selected her husband. The princess already has power, wealth, status etc. from her father so she does not need that fulfilled from her husband any more. So they sometimes would choose a man out of poverty, whose talents shine among all the citizens nationwide and make him the husband for the princess along with giving him status, and power from the princess. If a princess back then could choose a guy in such criterions, I see no reasons why I can not get satisfied from it.

    ReplyDelete
  51. To be more accurate, I am attracted to guys who have the capacity to *delay gratification* instead of sliding into wherever they feel like to. And it's easy to tell if a guy is capable of understanding abstract ideas by just holding a conversation with them. And guys without brains talking only about stuffs like soap operas is boring to me. I think guys with long term goals in mind usually have better potentials of achieving success in the future, as well as having better characters of being able to commit in anything.The type of intelligence I like can be reflected in various areas, such as academic area and in entrepreneurship. The latter would require more creativity, and also unconventional mindset usually. I think it's a matter on how we attribute social status to personalities. In cases where a man's poverty/low status can be attributed to himself as his fault, then it becomes an issue. But it's not always the case which I know for sure. Sometimes as long as a man can get rich and into high status, it automatically proves his talents, whichever talents they are. There are also occasions that men just get to there by luck or even by doing immoral things, in such cases I just would not give a shit to them however wonderful they think they are.........Of course other factors like physical looking, family commitment, sexual fidelity etc. all play a role. Intelligence is only one of them. Though for me it's a very important factor.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You sound like a very sensible woman, Grace. I hope you find that man of substance, character and intelligence you're looking for.

      Delete
    2. To expect things from others, I of course need to have things to offer too.

      If beauty is the main thing for a woman to offer, then this thing would be just very easy. That is why I contemplate what else I need to offer too....

      I already made drastic change to my looking so people around me already got surprised by my change on appearances saying I just turned good-looking. Maybe I would hire a professional trainer in training fashion models after certain milestones reached. They may help in training the shoulder/waist/leg shape etc. And I'm glad I was born with very nice facial features, so the situation seems not bad for me....

      I could get attentions and invites for dates from guys when I was not as polished in my lookings in the past, too. But I just want me to be more intentional in managing my looking and on choosing which place to go to and which people to talk to, is all.

      Delete
  52. Andrew, I have a question: Do Men look down on women without discipline, organization, or priority?

    I dated someone in the past when I was in college who I really adored. I was initially a very ambitious, organized person. However, I skipped classes and commitments with friends because of him. I love how he insisted I'd stay and I wanted to show him that he was truly important to me. However, I think he found this to be a negative trait later on. He started to comment on other girls who were strong and determined. Eventually feelings dwindled and we broke up.

    I felt so ashamed that I revolved my world around him...I always wonder back if that was one of the reasons he started to lose his attraction for me...was he ever flattered how many times I cancelled my life for him?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. aGirl, you still have a shot. Him wanting to buy you clothes is a positive sign! Now, first thing is first, how long is he going to Spain for?

      It seems you guys aren't in a official relationship. Turn the table. Make him want to be in a relationship with you by knowing he could lose you to someone else whilst he is away.

      Since you aren't officially a couple, you have the right to date other people. In fact, next time you see him I'd casually let him know that some other cute guy has asked you out and that you haven't responded yet. See what he says. A guy who wants to be in an n exclusive relationship, will ask you to be exclusive - he will make sure no one else snatches you.


      He needs to know that at the moment you are free to date other people, see what's out there.

      And, unfortunately for you, so is he.

      Hopefully, he'll want to be in an exclusive relationship with you before he travels.


      Should things not work out - make it a point to date other people. Do not, under any circumstances, wait for him.

      All the best!


      Delete