Tuesday, July 9, 2013

Do You Really Want Dating to Be Easier?

Dating isn't easy. In fact, for anyone with romantic ambitions, it is extremely difficult. There was a time where dating options were far more limited by religion, geography, social class, and family pressure. But these days, dating options are virtually limitless, and ideals about romance are pegged to ridiculous standards, both of which make it hard for people to settle down. When you consider this in light of the fact that people have such varied tastes, it isn't hard to see why it is so difficult to fall mutually in love.

The greatest victories in sports are the ones that follow a difficult comeback. We appreciate them because they are born out of unlikely circumstances, and are the result of a tremendous effort. I remember watching basketball games when I was a kid, and actually liking it when my favorite team was down by a large margin. The way I saw it, the deficit was just potential for a big comeback - maybe an unprecedented comeback, a game people would talk about for decades. While I knew that I might be witnessing a blowout, I also knew that I might be watching sports history in the making. I also knew that I wouldn't be anywhere near as excited if my team won by a large margin - it would just be too easy that way.

When you get frustrated at your lack of success with the opposite sex, stop for a moment and recognize that the same principle applies in your dating life.  If finding a boyfriend or husband were easy, you wouldn't care much for your relationships. Every man would be replaceable, just as you would be to every man. The more you improve yourself in order to find love, or the more years you spend maturing before you can recognize it, the more unique your story will be, and the more you will value the man who marks its end.


Related Posts
1. Why Rejection Is a Good Thing
2. Self-Improvement Takes Time
3. Why Do You Want Him Back?
4. Know Why You Are Dating

158 comments:

  1. I think this post especially fits with female psychology. Most women don't want a guy that offers or accepts a committed relationship too fast or too easily.

    Why?

    Because subconsciously they think that a guy who wants a reln. too much with her must not be of as much value as the guy who holds out more.

    From a guy's point of view this can be frustrating because in many/most cases where he sees a good fit he can realize that sooner (in part because he bases more of his attraction on looks and it doesn't take too long to tell if she's a bitch or not).

    So, hypothetically, the very same guy could come up to a woman and act in an attractive way, gradually upping his signs of interest in response to the pace that she shows interest, him usually one step ahead and seeing she reciprocates. That will work well for the guy.

    The very same guy could come up and if he gets two or three steps ahead of where the girl is at in terms of attraction to the guy then she'll feel something's off and if he keeps it up he'll likely kill the attraction.

    Advice to guys: calibrate how fast you come on to the IOIs she's sending.

    Advice to girls: give the guy who shows a bit too much interest a break. That might actually be a good thing that he's not just a smooth player who knows how to play you like a drum. He might just be the sincere guy who really likes you and has more value than your evolved mechanisms of ruling such guys out would make you feel.

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    1. Also, FYI, I'm part of a new blog, justfourguys.com and it's more men focused but women are welcome to read and comment and get our opinions on anything.

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    2. This guy makes good points, go check it out if you have a second:

      Here is a clickable link to make it easier for people:

      http://www.justfourguys.com/

      Haven't had time to check it out yet myself, but I am definitely interested to.

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    3. Thanks, Andrew. I recommend your blog to women I speak with from time to time that are looking for advice. I think that once in a while I might write a piece on advice for women at justfourguys but usually it will be men-focused. But I still think women can learn a lot about how men think which will be useful to them.

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    4. I'll add that the tendency to view someone who shows too much interest as having "lower value" isn't always wrong. Just that it can be taken too far and I think that in today's dating environment that too many women overly rule out men showing too much interest.

      To put it a bit more simplistically. A male 6 is going to show a lot of interest in a female 8. But a male 8 who's really struck by her might too and so the woman should probably give guys a little more benefit of the doubt and not be so easy to rule out guys who show interest.

      After all, a woman looking for a healthy relationships should go for a guy that is interested in her. Of course she needs to feel interest back but too often women can fall prey to wanting what she can't have or the guy that doesn't show much interest at all, taking the correlation between interest-shown and social/sexual value way too far and ending up just chasing players, jerks or guys that are out of her league.

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    5. I think this post on how feminists shame high-achieving women out of having relationships and kids to focus solely or more on career will be of interest to your female audience. I quote portions of an article from the Atlantic where women are confessing to their counselors that they really want relationships but feel like they're betraying the cause if they do so. I also quote an article where having a child with her partner felt like a betrayal of the career-focused feminist herd.

      I'm all for women having freedom to choose when it comes to career but I also think they should have the freedom to choose to have relationships and kids, especially since most women want that. And that is one reason why I criticize feminism, because too often it's about just "leaning in" and achieving more political and career power for women as opposed to allowing women to choose their own path without feeling ashamed.

      Anyway, check out the post and feel free to comment. No one has to agree with any or all of what I say but we can have a civil, interesting and intellectual discussion about these topics. In fact, I like people to disagree so that we can engage in the dialectic of arriving at an even better understanding of the truth.

      http://www.justfourguys.com/feminists-and-raunch-queens-are-the-dominant-alpha-mares/

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    6. "I criticize feminism, because too often it's about just "leaning in" and achieving more political and career power for women as opposed to allowing women to choose their own path without feeling ashamed."

      I couldn't have agreed more. That is the very, very exact reason that I, too, criticize feminism. Rather than achieving the goal of giving women freedom to choose either lifestyles (career woman and/or wife and mother) we are simply pushing women to become more dominant. In a way, replacing the "male role", though equality is what feminists should strive for.

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    7. Yes, I'm in favor of equality of opportunity and true freedom of choice for women to choose career, family or both (though with realistic expectations about the time required if one is going to pursue both and that many career women do burn out or choose to go the family route later on).

      I think that the initial stages of feminism of seeking the vote, fair wages and so forth are fine. That was seeking equality. But then they went too far into saying all men are so privileged (even though there are way more women in college for example) and women have to do career in order to be worthwhile as women.

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    8. When is the world did feminism suddenly mean not being able to choose relationships and children freely? Why are people not following the dictionary definition of it? I hate it when people twist a noble concept into something ugly and opposite to its original meaning.

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    9. People who criticize feminism usually focus on the most despicable members of the movement without recognizing its importance (such as providing help, shelters and a voice for abused women, for instance).

      This whole idea of debating what feminism is and isn't is just so moot, because it doesn't exist out in the real world. In the real world, neither feminists nor feminist-bashers have much of a voice, and they go about their lives as normal people, with the exception that some of those feminists also do a lot of positive and sontructive work for women (such as providing female-centric entertainment, abuse care and so on).

      Then, of course, there are a handful of militant and angry individuals, but christ, do yourself a favor and forget about them. They're not changing anything.

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    10. HanSolo,

      While I generally agree with your article and stance I must say the "career vs. family" is a mass exaggeration. Like another poster said, most women do not and will not have access to such high powered careers that would put a real damper on them finding a man. Most women are working desk jockey jobs with limited upward mobility. payroll specialist, administrator, ect. Not bad jobs, but nothing to brag about either. Not many women are working jobs that require 80 hrs a week of working/traveling that has a legitimate, negative effect on their personal life. Most of the highly educated women I know (doctors, PhDs, lawyers) are married to great men.

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    11. I think you're confusing the message sent and how women actually act. Feminism does send a message of placing career above relationships and children. Some women respond a lot to this and others a bit and others not at all. I'm not saying that society is such that all or most women are doing only one or the other. I'm just saying that as shown in the article many women, particularly the higher achieving ones, feel a lot of pressure to put career first.

      But even at an early age, I read an account where a girl said she wanted to be a mom when she grew up and the teacher told her, "no, I mean, what do you want to be?" Implying that being a mom was not a worthy goal in and of itself and that she had to say some career.

      Once again, I'm not saying that women have to choose one or another--most will do both actually--but the message is a heavy focus on putting career first, even when many women would prefer a balanced message that allows them the feeling of freedom to choose career, family or both--whatever they want and are able to do--without being shamed for that.

      Anyway, I don't want to take things too off topic so feel free to come over to my blog if you want to discuss it further. Cheers.

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    12. Feminism sends a message that women should have the equal opportunity to develop a career just as much as men. Where most people fail at understanding is equal opportunity and equal outcomes are two different things. There are other variables in work as to why the majority of CEOs are not women.

      Women who are so weak minded that they easily cave under pressure to put career first when they want to become mothers will probably make bad mothers. These women need to be able to make decisions for themselves without the "society" panels approval.

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    13. @ Hansolo: No idea about the whole feminism thing. I don't think most women are the extremist that you mention.

      So here's the problem with your statements. In today's day and age, the divorce rate is high. And giving up on relationships that are in trouble is an option. Like Andrew said in his previous post...if a wife mentions divorce while fighting, then just accept it and move on. In the past, this was definitely not how people thought.

      So, in consequence to all these broken relationships. People are in more of an individualistic mindset than before. Even in relationships, it seems that people always have a back-up plan. And that means that woman have to protect themselves financially. Meaning, that you can't rely on your husband while taking care of the kids. And with the push on education and the bad economy, men keep building there careers into their 30s. And since men won't settle down until they have laid out their future, that means the unmarried woman must build her career. Forgo the mindset of children until it happens.

      For instance, I want kids. But what am I supposed to do if all the guys my age are not ready for marriage? I build my career. And once it is built and I have the family, I can't drop the career for housewife since I have loans. Plus, it seems like a waste to get degrees and retreat to doing stuff that requires no degree.

      Basically, the way women are today is a response to how men are. It is not even so much society. In the past, there would have been no blogs about serial dating and sex-before-relationships. Women knew their path. What are we supposed to do when you boys are running around sewing your oats? I mean, even Andrew has probably dated double or triple digit women. Dating sites are written by guys that date a lot, not those that are married. So, what do you expect?

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    14. You're stating that it's men that are driving what's happening in society but that's the small % of top men that a much greater % of women are trying to get. So yeah, the most attractive and appealing guys with status, looks, fame, money, charisma, game, whatever are cleaning up. But most guys are not having tons of women at their beck and call.

      For the average guy, it's often hard for him to even get a woman that's in his league to give him a chance.

      Also, I believe it's more women in their 20's postponing relationships and marriage more than men. There was a recent study that showed that young men had marriage as a higher priority than young women.

      It really is many of the young women (even if not a huge overall %) putting off serious relationships that is driving the market. Because when they do so then they just seek men that are fun or sexy. It's also young women now earning more than young men but still preferring a man to earn as much or more than her. That means there's a small pool of men to choose from. Young women are often way too picky about the type of man that she wants and there just aren't enough of these amazing men to go around so some of these women end up single.

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    15. Okay, you may be right on that most men don't have tons of women on their beck and call. But it is hard to tell, because people play too many games nowadays. I mean, c'mon, there are literally shows on picking up artists. Society's of pick up artists. Books like, The Game and RooshV, that cater to banging as many women as possible. Then, you have men taking time off to go abroad for the sexual experiences.

      It is hard to tell who is real and who is fake. Women end up going through a lot of learning before meeting someone decent. The lucky ones learn through reading or mistakes of others to avoid certain types of guys.

      So yeah, most women are not trying to get married at 20. Most are trying to just figure out which guy is decent. And since women are bashed for sexual promiscuity, we try to limit number of men early on. Instead, we tend to look for the 'fun and sexy' type early on. Then, you find yourself and learn better. Takes time.

      Women in their 20s do give men in their league a chance. They end up getting burned because men aren't ready to take it to the alter. They want to date you for another 5 years and see where it goes. And that leads to the inevitable break ups as both parties go in separate directions with careers.

      And according to recent articles, men are still earning more than men. But never heard a women state earning cut off as her top priority. The only women are focused on that as those women that don't earn much. But it is really not much to ask that the man be ambitious in whatever he does.

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    16. In most cases, this runs true. When you give a guy of your league a chance (in his 20s), he will inevitably mess it up. Not sure where you find these guys that are more serious about marriage at that age. But most men have to apparently get tired of messing around and being single before. Only then do they learn not to drop the ball when they get together with someone on their level.

      I have heard a lot of stories from men going like...yeah, I loved that girl but timing wasn't right. maybe in the future? Whereas, older men just MAKE IT WORK. Perhaps because they know they can't do better? Perhaps because they have tasted shit? Perhaps because they are too old to kill the depression of breaking up with meaningless weekly sex? Perhaps because they have the finances or communication skills?

      Just saying. And building myself up to look like the super model Andrew posts about takes time and money. I was not matching my panties at 18. I didn't have the money for that.

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    17. Women in their 20s often have a vastly overrated sense of their value and think that male 8's are in their league when the women are only 6's or 7's.

      You also have more young men that do want to play the field for a while. Most don't have much success and learn they need a relationship if they want to have sex with someone they find more attractive than the women 2 pts lower that they might be able to have casual with. Most men are failures at pick-up. One PUA coach said that only 1/10 guys succeed at really learning the stuff. Women tend to focus on the most successful guys and then think all guys are like them and thus think that men can totally get sex whenever they want--not the reality for most men.

      Here's an article about high-achieving young women (admittedly most women aren't so ambitious) putting of relationships because they value all of these other things more:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/fashion/sex-on-campus-she-can-play-that-game-too.html?hpw&_r=1&pagewanted=all&

      Men who date women for 5 years and don't want to marry or cohabit for a long time basically don't like/love the women they're with enough. They're just complacently settling for whom they can easily get for now. It really is the settle for the 5 now until I get a bit older and have gotten more career under my belt and more confident and then go out and find a 6 that he'd actually be happy to marry.

      All that the timing wasn't right and so on is mostly BS. They just weren't that into her.

      That's the hardest lesson for women to learn, that they can get sex with men that don't love them that much, that aren't into them, that will even stick around for a steady supply of sex and companionship for a couple years, but these men don't love them deeply and sure as hell never intend on marrying them (though complacently sliding into marriage or kids does often happen).

      Basically it's quite hard to find a man who's really into a woman and that the woman is really into. I think probably half of women are fairly hypergamous (meaning they only feel strong attraction and romantic love if they guy is of somewhat higher value or better) and these women are going to struggle because their minimum threshold is too high. The other half that aren't hypergamous (or very much) can feel excited and deeply in love with an equal in some sense (or in rare cases a lesser man) and they are the ones that are more likely to find a really happy and loving marriage.

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    18. That might be true about women thinking they are of higher value. But that is true of a lot of people. Many people feel that they are a 'special', man or women. Truth is that if everyone is so damn special, then no one is. As far as looks go, attractiveness is highly variable. It is easier to differentiate between a 1 and a 10. But for anyone above 5, how are you supposed to be sure?

      I mean, if a women is definitely higher than a 5 and lower than a 10. That means that to any given man, she may be 6-9. And that depends on what she wears; does her hair; make up; fitness regimen. Plus, there are always male 8s that think they are 10s or those that think they are 5s.

      It is tough to find someone that is like...yeah, I would rather have a 6 though I can get a 9. And yes, men are like this too. It's just that women are picky when it comes to dating. Whereas men will date lower for constant sex. Most men think they deserve 8-10, when it comes to marriage.

      I have known men to sleep with women they are embarrassed to show their friends. Yet, they keep hooking up with her. Or the 6 they date just to date but wait around for the 8.

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    19. Oh, and interesting about the playing the field bit. Perhaps in the presence of a girl, guys tend to exaggerate their options. Or make you feel like they had a lot options to give up when they locked you down. Guy that I dated once made a point of it to make it known how many options he used to have. I experienced that in several guys before and after that. Maybe it has something to do with how I was acting. Because I never talk about my options. Not sure if others have similar experiences.

      But yes, I agree that it is tough to find someone you like. I think that is the answer to Andrew's question in this article about whether dating should be easier? Simply put. Hell yes. Dating is fun if it goes somewhere. Most of the time, it doesn't. So no, breaking up with someone sucks. Rejection sucks from whichever end. And sitting through a dinner with someone that doesn't excite you sucks. People try to amp it up as fun, so that they feel better about going out there.

      Guess I shouldn't be complaining though. It sounds like it might be a hell of a lot worst from the guy's end.

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  2. Women like "challenging" relationships, but not having to find GETTING relationships a challenge. Maybe not to the extent that men do.

    Men tend to value things more the harder they have to fight for it and when they do, everyone rejoices (think Andy Murray). I don't think this means that men enjoy having to fight to get the affections of a woman (women showing indifference or repulsion is a big turn off) but to fight to maintain a relationship involving mutual attraction, in difficult circumstances.

    Women are the same to some extent in that they don't want to have problems getting men to like them. But when they find men who like them, they enjoy the preamble and sexual tension and antcipation which leads to the consumation of the relationship.

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  3. TheRulesRevisited, whats ur religion? do u believe in G-d?

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    1. I'm not religious. I guess I believe in god, but not the god of any specific religion, just "god" in the sense of some kind of ultimate reality.

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    2. I'm surprised you haven't put more thought into it. You seem so analytical and opinionated about topics of much less significance. I predict you will become more interested as you age.

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    3. I've put a lot more thought into it than my comment suggests. I've probably read 50+ books on the topic.

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    4. I have found "History, Law, and Christianity" by John Warwick Montgomery to be very interesting, if you are ever curious. The guy has 11 degrees

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  4. It's hard because, if a woman focuses only on her feminine beauty, then what if a man can not be there to support her? What if one day a man decides to dump her, then how could she live on without money?

    Not to mention that most guys these days can not afford a family upbringing on his own without the women earning money too.

    But by focusing on careers, a woman after getting herself finacially secure, might have passed her most fertile age already.

    What a paradox.

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    1. I'm not saying to not do a career. I'm pointing out that some women report feeling pressured to not have a relationship or kids (even though they want those things greatly) and to only focus on career in their 20's or even early 30's. I think women can do both. And more importantly, they should feel free to choose to take the path they want to.

      Interestingly, one of the women in the articles said she felt she had more time to focus on career once she was married (but without kids still) because she wasn't worrying about meeting guys.

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    2. I think the effect of this "pressure" is over-stated. A LOT of women low on the socio-economic scale and with little or limited education DO NOT yearn for careers that are never going to be their's anyway. Even women from high status families do not yearn for careers which may be theirs through family connections, but which their limited intellect does not suit. A "career" is only meaningful to intelligent women and only accessible to intelligent and educated ones. Most women toil in boring, mudane, unglamorous, low paying, unfulfilling jobs because they have no choice and dream of a man "saving" them from a life of toil and labour.

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    3. Exactly like the above posters said in response to Hansolo. Women do not feel pressured to NOT have a relationship. Women just feel pressured to build their career and put it first. This is what men used to do. Now, both men and woman have to do this because men don't get married like they used to.

      And no, for women, they can't do both. Because men don't like waiting around on career-oriented women. It is complicated. When they aren't looking for marriage, which they don't until late 20s or 30s, then they want a girl that is flexible to their schedule and easy on the eyes.

      If men aren't dating you while you are building your career, you can't do the kids bit. And that women was lucky to find the 'one' on her busy schedule. Because most women are dating because they haven't found him. Women don't prefer dating multiple men over having THE MAN.

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  5. If a woman does not have a career and specialize in family stuffs, then she requires lifelong attachment to her man even more.

    But these days, divorce rate is so high, so depending on a man is very dangerious a game.

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    1. You're presenting the opposite extreme of no career at all to focus only on family. Of course a woman can choose that, if she can find a man that's fine with that, but most women will want to or have to do both: a career and a family.

      Anyway, I don't want to take things too off topic from the original post so feel free to come over to justfourguys.com and discuss things further. You and anyone else will be welcome.

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    2. Grace, a lot of the time women have little option but to depend on a man, particularly :
      - when she has no access to a meaningful "career" to speak of (see post at 1:26am above) or she does not have the intellectual capacity to appreciate one
      - when she has a low paying job while her man has a higher paying job and they have children. It is absolutely stupid to have the higher earning man give up hours to stay home with the children while the wife works at a lower paying job - it is called opportunity cost, people
      - prohibitive child care fees and there is no one to care for kids - and when the woman's pay is lower than her man's and which would not cover childcare cost

      Careers for women are strictly for the upper and upper-middle educated classes. There is an article I read some time ago from RationalMale which makes the argument that many women DO NOT want careers which they are not suited for, but you'd never know that from reading mainstream media written by the educated and chattering classes.
      -

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    3. I've always hated the government for passing the no-fault divorce law. It basically takes away all your security as a woman, because your man can just leave you to the wolves after you're old and not attractive anymore. I wonder if you can substitute marriage with a more binding contract so that you can't just get out of it whenever one party just "falls out of love".

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    4. Hang on a minute Anon at 10:00 am. A man may leave you to the wolves after you're old and unattractive, but he has to pay for it through alimony, child support, asset division etc. The same can't be said of a woman who leaves her husband after she gets bored with him or decides she doesn't want him anymore.

      No fault divorces does not obviate the "fair" division of assets between husband and wife. If you want to bring back fault divorces, you will find that more women will be penalised - which is what men want, but not what you were expecting.

      More women would be held accountable for her misdeeds (eg. affairs) by forgoing payments from her ex-husband whereas a man, under the current regime, has to "pay" the wife whether or not he misbehaves.

      Remember the gypsy curse : May you get what you wish for.

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  6. Oh thank goodness you posted this entry. You literally took the words out of my brain (I'm a a bit of analytical type myself). Dating is so hard. I'm currently in the beginning stages of dating someone and I think that to make it work, the two of us has to lay a mutually beneficial "framework" for how things are going to progress. However, this is, as your can imagine, hardly romantic to discuss. However, I don't think this I'm going to change my approach. Fundamentally, I want my partner to know that I have a "us against the world" type mentality and that we are competing against each other. Usually, the dynamic I want to achieve is one where he is "the smart one" so that I can be "the pretty one". I often get criticized for this because my friends and co-workers like that point out that apparently (and I quote) "it is not an easy task to find someone smarter than you". I don't think this is true at all. I find that as a person, I'm always humbled by how much I don't know. If everyone paid attention to the world news or academics the way they follow Kim Kardashian's wardrobe, there'd be no short supply of "people smarter than me." But I digress...

    I would just also like to say that while I'm sure there are people who love the butterflies they feel at the beginning of a relationship, I find that these same feelings make me a highly ineffective person. Not that I don't enjoy the warm fuzziness on my downtime, it's just that thinking about the person I like while I'm concentrating on school and work clouds my judgement a bit because I find that I can't think straight.

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    1. Hi anon,
      I don't want to be telling you what to do, just sharing my thoughts. I think by taking the role of the 'pretty one' you're giving up on authenticity. You said yourself your very analytical and i presume you're trying to give up that part for your man. I think you should remain just the way you are, which doesn't mean you cannot make yourself look good! Give him a woman that's eye candy and confident in being just the person she is and he'll go crazy for you! I found a great boyfriend that way. We're both engineers and we love sharing technical and philosophical ideas. He supports my career and i support his. Besides lovers we're also best friends and it works out great for us. So again, i think reducing yourself to the pretty one might be an assault on yourself. You can be both pretty and smart.

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    2. Lets suppose two stereotypes of women:
      1. Intelligent, ambitious, successful and beautiful
      2. Knows how to cook and clean, but less intelligent and less beautiful

      I think that transforming from type 1 to type 2 is relatively easier, assuming the woman has the desires to do it.

      But transforming from type 2 to type 1 is relatively way way harder.

      Though it's good for women of type 1 to consciously make efforts in trying to take care of the family. The thing is, as long as type 1 woman deliberately change for that, it's not that hard. Some men might appreciate intellectual equals IMO as well as how women can care the families at the same time.

      To become a woman who possesses both traits, type 1 women can morph herself into that very easily while it's almost impossible for type 2 women to morph herself into that.

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    3. Nope. I don't give up my authencity to be what I call "the pretty one". I just want someone smarter than me so that it doesn't feel like I have to do the thinking for both of us. I feel that while I am feminine, oftentimes, people don't notice how I look because they are intimadated by what I say. I believe Andrew's advice for this was the "why you should shut up more" post. But seriously, if someone thinks CERN is a post-modern art movement, it's hard to stay quiet. I have no intentions of being arm candy. I was merely pointing out when a couple is in public, people judge you against each other. In my last relationship, my SO felt insecure at times because others would tell him how lucky he was to find a smart girlfriend. No one ever mentioned pretty because that trait was eclipsed.

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    4. And I'll add, you could benefit from not being so concerned about how you're viewed by other people.

      Really don't live your life by how YOU THINK others see you.

      P.S.I don't know a single person who doesn't know what CERN is. Maybe you need to hang out with smarter people :) Unless you're in high school, then you have a plenty of time to figure these things out for yourself

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    5. Karmen, U might benefit from a few slices of humble pie. Smart, pretty, and intimidating?? Lol

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  7. I never really understood why some people thought that dating is hard. What exactly is the problem?

    Is it a lack of understanding of social cues and codes that cause people to commit blunders and faux pas that scare their dates off? Or is it some kind of irrational dream of finding "the one?"

    I always thought dating was just this fun, relaxed thing that you do with anyone you think is cool to see where it takes you, and I've never had problems turning some of those dates into long-lasting relationships (and I'm probably as average as a guy will get).

    I'd be really interested in hearing what exactly is hard about dating.

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    1. My take is meeting the right people - that's the tough part. I am not a people magnet unlike some of my friends. Most likely to do with confidence, behaviour and so forth...

      By right people, I mean regular folks who are not desperate.

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    2. What's hard about dating is making it your sole goal in life and considering it's outcomes an evaluation of your entire self. That is thinking that you're only worthy as an individual if you're experiencing a conquest after a conquest. Once you get out of that mindset, dating becomes fun and you always seem to meet the right people.

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    3. Anonymous 3:34
      "I never really understood why some people thought that dating is hard. What exactly is the problem?"


      I think the problem is that everyone is trying to find someone just a little bit out of their league - or at least at the very max of their own league - and rightly so.

      Women find this more difficult because they are biologically programmed to pick the best they can, and they can sleep with hot guys who aren't actually interested. The women who fail to recognize this and overcome their natural hypergamy are the ones who remain single - the longer it takes them to realize it, the more they have to compromise.

      I agree with you that dating is "just this fun, relaxed thing that you do with anyone you think is cool". It's almost impossible to do well in dating if you're not having fun.

      Delete
    4. I'm with Thomas on this one

      Delete
    5. I agree with Thomas too. He explained the female side.

      What about the male side. If a man tries to go for a woman that's out of his league, what happens? Nothing. He gets shot down. The woman might caught up in the allure of the attention from the higher-value man and sleep with him.

      If the male get's attention from the under-his-league woman, he may well decide to run with it for a short period to get some sex and then move on.

      So, men are less likely than women to go for someone out of their league because they will be shot down much sooner and more often than women will be.

      Delete
    6. I don't understand what Thomas is saying?

      Delete
    7. Anonymous 6:07
      “I don’t understand what Thomas is saying?”

      Well I’m speaking from a generalized evolutionary standpoint that assumes that men want to sleep with lots of women and then settle for the most attractive (read fertile) one he can, and that women want to sleep with few men and then settle for the one with the one with the most resources (read wealthy, intelligent etc.) she can.

      Using this as a basis it makes sense that in order for men to have sex with lots of women they will have to “date down” a league – he will then commit when he meets the best he possibly can, i.e. someone in his league. As Hans Solo explained it’s easy for men to know their level because women above them level reject them.

      Using the same evolutionary basis, women aim as high as they can and then try and get the best one they can to commit. It’s hard for women to know their league because guys above her will still date her for sex, but not consider her for commitment.

      Basically women can “date up” but they have to “marry down,” and men will “date down” but will only “marry up”. Men realize this from a young age because to get sex we have to drop our standards. It often takes women a lot longer to realize that in order to get married she will eventually have to “marry down” (settle) or stay single. The longer she waits, the older she gets and the more she will have to compromise.

      That’s why women find dating so difficult.

      Delete
    8. Thanks for clarifying.

      How unfortunate. If I have to drop my standards any lower than I already have (I think I'm fairly humble), then I'd rather stay single.

      Delete
    9. Anon I feel exactly the same. Thank Gucci I never wanted children, otherwise I'd have married down- and then likely divorced.

      E.

      Delete
    10. Anon
      “How unfortunate”

      Well look on the bright side:

      - You can have sex with men who are comparatively much more attractive than you. And if you’re not bothered about getting married you can keep having sex with different attractive men - well until you are about 40/45 anyway. (Men would just love it if they could do that).

      - By following Andrew’s tips on hair, clothes and make-up you can go up a league thus reducing the extent you will have to “marry down”.

      - And when I say “marry down” I only mean in superficial criteria like height, status, wealth, looks etc. You should still look for a man with integrity who treats you well and loves you. He just might be short, bald and a blue-collar worker rather than tall, handsome and a professional. If you can train yourself not to be attracted to status and looks as much you won’t perceive it as “marrying down”. Men have to undergo the same process and change our criteria from judging women on their looks, to judging them on their character if we want a successful marriage too.

      Delete
    11. @Thomas

      That's actually not a bright side because I am not interested in casual sex. I have always been commitment-oriented. I've had plenty of chances to have sex with attractive men but I rejected all of them. It's a shame, any man would love to be in my place (having sex with attractive women that is)

      Andrews tips are indeed good, but that boggles my mind. Just out of purely being more attractive, I can go up a whole league? I didn't realize looks were THAT huge!

      But I like your point on marrying down. If it means removing superficial notions, I can understand that. If it means removing an important component such as integrity, humor, financial stability (not wealth, stability) etc. then that's a shame. However I think we all end up with someone who fits our level.

      Delete
    12. Not sure I agree on the marrying-down concept. My parents are equally intelligent, attractive and come from affluent parents. My parents are in their 50s now, but when I look back at their photos from their youth, they were both pretty hot. I'd say they were both 9s or 10s. I think they are a good match, and apparently they thought so too.

      I don't think there's a cookie cutter rule, but I will say that a lot of what I see in relationships and people who marry today is settling. This is different from compromising. Compromising is more like, sleeping on a different side of the bed because your man/woman wants the side you're used to. Settling is knowing in your heart that you don't love someone or you don't want to marry someone, but yet you stick in the relationship because you either can't find a better/available option. People who settle always end up miserable or their relationships end. People who stay in miserable wrong relationships have no balls to walk away.

      I completely agree with Andrew's post. Dating is hard, but sometimes it takes time to find or realize who you're meant to be with. I don't know if I believe in the soul mate idea, but whenever I've dated someone and it ends, even if the ending is sad, a big part of me is always optimistic because it's a sign that that person was not Mr. Right. I've dated a handful of men, but it's kind of like the Whitney Houston song, "How Will I Know?" ...I think I will know when someone cares about me in spite of my fuck-ups, feels good when I'm with him even if we are arguing, I get along well with his friends (male and female), gives enough of a shit to help me improve myself (i.e., career advice, physical fitness, attire), values my opinion, finds me attractive...oh, and there's also mind-blowing sex. The man I'm going to marry is going to bring his "A game" and make me want to bring mine as well.

      Andrew, Hans, all, how do you know when you are dating Mr./Ms. Wrong or Mr./Ms. Right?

      Delete
    13. Anon 6:53
      “I’d say they [my parents] were both 9s or 10s.”

      Well your parents must be exceptionally beautiful so they’re not really relevant to most of us ordinary folk (no offence). 10 is perfection, and 9 is movie-star/international super-model standard. The hottest woman I’ve ever even seen in person is probably about 8.7, and the hottest I’ve ever managed to hookup with is about 8.2. Basically 9s and 10s can do whatever they want. Everyone else has to learn how the real-world works.

      I agree with you on the marrying-down concept. It should really be called marrying-level – I just used “marrying-down” to explain the concept, which is that women who hook-up/ date/sleep with men who won’t commit are usually doing so with men who are more attractive than they are by about 1 or 2 points.

      If your parents were both 6s, your mother could have spent her 20s hooking up with 8s – but your father couldn’t have. Young women days often do that these days. However, when these women reach their late 20s / 30s they will have to drop back down to dating 6s if they want to secure commitment. This process is difficult to accept because after 10 years of hooking-up with 8s she will have to realize that in fact she was only a 6 the whole time (the same applies for 5s hooking up with 7s, 4s with 6s etc). Truly hypergamous women never realize/accept it and so they keep getting dumped, or stay single.

      “Settling” isn’t the best term to use because it sounds depressing. Perhaps we should say “realignment of priorities?”

      I also agree with you on the idea of a soul-mate. I don’t believe in “the one” as such, rather “the timing” - people who just happen to be looking for the same thing at the same time, and then they meet each other.

      Delete
    14. And this is why women going for someone out of her league has much more impact on the sexual market than a man doing so. She'll get laid and he won't.

      Delete
    15. I cant understand why dating is hard

      Dating is harder for men.

      In the cast majority of cases, men are required to put much more effort into dating. They have to risk rejection and make the first move. They have to pursue the woman, while the woman is pursued. The whole philosophy of dating revolves around the man selling himself to the woman; proving himself to her, persuading her that he is good enough for her, while he already finds her attractive (else why would he date her in the first place?

      Delete
    16. Dating is not worse for men.
      Men are required to make the first move, and while I'm not denying that it can be daunting and you risk rejection, you have little investment in the woman. Women experience rejection too, and usually it is further down the line when she is emotionally invested and have wasted time - if they've had sex, she's also more at a loss.
      Women have a bigger job filtering than men do. Men's filtering is about "is this woman right for me?", women's filtering is "Is he an asshole/is he chasing me for the right reasons" etc. Considering that men are more variable than women and there is a bigger group of men that are undateable (90% of prisoners are male, men are more prone to be violent, alcoholics, mental difficulties etc.), the pool of good husbands is smaller than the pool of good wives which makes the filtering process crucial. I'm not saying there aren't a lot of bad women out there, but not nearly the same amount as there are undateable men.

      You're saying this is about selling yourself to a woman but a woman's biggest obstacle is not getting attention from men, it's getting the right one and it's a hell of a job both finding someone you're attracted to and determining which men are right, serious and will make good husbands.

      Delete
    17. Sophie, very well said.
      Especially when women risk having children with a Beta male who doesn't get a job and take the lead, or at least an equal role, on managing family financial stability. Women are then stuck with 100% of child care and 100% of family finances. And there are way more Beta males like this out there than there are men who willingly take on the commitment to support and raise a family. So damn right as Sophie said, we've got to filter filter filter. All men want is a piece of ass. Look at Andrew, smart personable guy like him, even he said he wants a piece of arm candy, the love factor is not something he's looking for.

      Delete
    18. Sophie

      Women define rejection very differently from men. Rejection according to women, is when a man doesn't want to have the kind of relationship she wants; on her terms. That's rejection. In other words women define rejection very narrowly.

      Why are we supposed to pretend that the purpose of all dating is to find a lifelong committed monogamous relationship and anything else is failure and doesnt count. Why should I agree with you? That is just your view. Why should I agree given the bustling dating, hooking up, affairs, casual relationships scene that is around me? What about the various kinds of relationships and arrangements men and women have these days?

      Life is a journey, not a destination. One's dating, courtship and sex life is also more like a journey than a destination. And this journey is on average way better for women than it is for men. But you are only looking at the 'destination' part..the settling down part. You might as well say, "Since we all die in the end...we all have it equal"

      What we humans fundamentally need is sex, physical intimacy and companionship. And in this day and age you would be fooling yourself if you believe you require marriage to fulfill these purposes. People are already doing it.


      ****

      I'm just less inclined to sympathize with a woman who is lonlely/dumped/rejected but can start dating 10 new men within a month than a young man who may have to wait for years before another woman will come along . Even if the woman in the former case finds none of the 10 guys acceptable.

      Women generally get more dating options even after accounting for the degenerates, criminals and creeps (read unattractive men) and having more options moulds you into different people, whether you like to accept or not. Having more options makes you selective. At the very least it gives you some validation. It makes you less desperate. It gives you a better idea of what kind of men are best for you because you have the privilege to date so many people. Most men just get down on their knees and flip out a ring for the 1st or 2nd woman who show mild interest in them. Most guys simply arent selective and dont have the long checklists because they never get so many options.

      And after a break up or divorce, women are in most cases better off. They can start an active dating and sex life soon after divorce. Its so common to see single freshly divorced moms having sexual relationships with good looking men. Meanwhile most divorced men have no one but prostitutes to turn to. Its all about "options' and women have more of them.

      ***

      Women rarely experience sexual rejection. So even when a man isnt interested in committing, it at least validates her as a sexual desirable being. Atleast he found her attractive enough to have sex and share intimacy with. This reminds me of the fact that women never get friend-zoned. Its always a Friend-with-Benefit zone. It is so much better than simply being limited and confined to a non sexual being by the object of your affection/crush.

      Delete
    19. Sophie

      Lets do some math first.

      90% of criminals are men
      But only 3% of men are criminals (using a broad definition) So that doesn't reduce your dating pool by that much unless ofcourse you have a thing for bad boys.

      You can just be honest and men will have more respect for you. Instead of saying that there are fewer marriageable men because too many of them are criminals, jerks and assholes, you can be honest and say that you just dont find most men attractive. See, ever heard of this novel concept? You can just say the truth that very few men meet the criteria of looks, height, physique, income, lifestyle, outgoing nature, exciting-ness that you require.. You could've said that since you have an education and have a decent career going you require a man who is better than you in intellect, career and education. Dont try to downplay the importance of these traits, please. They pressure on men is immense and we can feel it.

      Not being a criminal, jerk or asshole wont cause attraction on its own. That is just required for your "indifference"

      Delete
    20. Sophie, very well said.
      Especially when women risk having children with a Beta male who doesn't get a job and take the lead, or at least an equal role, on managing family financial stability. Women are then stuck with 100% of child care and 100% of family finances. And there are way more Beta males like this out there than there are men who willingly take on the commitment to support and raise a family.




      Your definition of beta males is interesting.

      Men define beta males as men who are not good looking/hot/sexy/ enough to sexually attract women easily. They dont hook up with women, dont have flings, dont date many women. Their only option is to pursue one woman for a LTR and settle down. They are the nest builders. They are suited for monogamy...not promiscuity. They are not the men women chase, have crushes on.

      A good father / caring husband / faithful / provider type guy is a beta male according to men's definition. Women are often not very sexually enthusiastic about them initially (and definitely wouldnt have considered them for a wild passionate fling) but marry such men anyway because they are oh such "sensible choices".

      Its interesting that you twist the definition of beta males to suit your own interests as a woman. I wont allow you that. I'm sure Andrew wont either.

      Delete
    21. I never said that *most* men are criminals and you know that (unless you are very slow). However if you add up all the men with major problems (mental difficulties, autism, alcoholism etc) which makes them unsuitable husbands/fathers, you'll get a solid number. I used this as an image to illustrate that some men are undateable, even if a woman has minimum standards. I didn't claim that most women HAVE such low standards, they obviously don't. But even if they did, the pool of suitable men would still be smaller than the pool of suitable women.

      I'm always honest and I believe you have a stereotype of women and project it onto me. I never lie nor did I in my post so don't put words in my mouth.
      I'm well educated, attractive and in my early twenties so I have high standards for a man. Even women of less attractiveness have high standards because men and women are different. Women are biologically wired to be selective (at the risk of pregnancy) at the same rate that men are wired to spread their seeds. Pair that with the fact that most women aren't looking for casual sex, and the result is that women's standards are higher. The average woman looks good to the average man, the average man looks kind of icky to the average woman. Most men know this.
      Most women would rather go without sex than sleep with someone they don't find attractive, and no political movement or male bickering will change that.
      I agree that some women have standards way too high for their own league. However it is unrealistic to try and change their mind. Secondly they are the ones who have to suffer for their unrealistic expectations and end up like cat ladies - which they are free to do for my part.

      Men think women are at advantage because they have casual sex on tap. This is projection. You see this is as an advantage because that's what you want. Women don't want casual sex, they want commitment from a high quality man, which is hard for a woman to achieve. You think women are better off because you can only see this from a male point of view. They are not better off objectively speaking. They have less time as well, whereas men have an ocean of time to have children.

      Delete
    22. Anon 8:19
      “All men want is a piece of ass…Look at Andrew, smart personable guy like him, even he said he wants a piece of arm candy, the love factor is not something he’s looking for”

      Yes this is true – men are wired to seek sex, and then they might fall in love. It doesn’t make them bad people though – it’s not their fault. Women are wired to look for look for love – and they find sex. Again it’s the way they are built.

      Sophie and The Skeptic.
      Your conversation is very interesting. My take is somewhere in the middle of both your positions: dating is difficult for everyone – except for the most beautiful women and the most successful men.
      Women have all their power consolidated into their twenties – but after the age of about 28 power shifts to men. Women have a lot of filtering to do and much to learn and understand in this time if they are to make the right decision for their future - if men can put their head down and get a good career going they will be in a good position in their 30’s. Women have to realize that the power she has in her 20’s is temporary and she shouldn’t waste that power and time on the wrong men (men out of her league).

      I have sympathy for both men and women who struggle in dating – but ultimately it’s their problem and so it’s up to them to sort out.

      The Skeptic
      “Women rarely experience sexual rejection”
      I think it’s reasonable to say that women who are dumped after sex can be left devastated and feel rejected and used.

      I agree with your point that dating isn’t necessarily about finding a lifetime monogamous relationship though – that’s why people need to communicate what they’re looking for if they’re unhappy with their situation.

      Sophie
      “Men’s filtering is about “is this woman right for me?”
      Well actually it’s more like: “Am I attracted to her, and how does she make me feel?”

      “women’s filtering is “is he an asshole/is he chasing me for the right reasons”

      Yep this is true – and you know the only way to figure out his motivation for chasing you is to secure commitment before having sex.

      “women don’t want casual sex”

      Well some women do – if not who would men be having all their casual sex with?!

      “The average woman looks good to the average man, the average man looks kind of icky to the average woman. Most men know this.”

      And this is the source of all the problems women have in dating: they all want the same few men. So these guys can basically do whatever they want and everyone else is unhappy.

      Basically most women have to realize at some point that in order to get married and have a family they will have to marry men that they mightn’t find very attractive - at first anyway. Unless you are young and beautiful you will have to marry the “beta male.”

      Delete
    23. Thanks for your input, Thomas. Your response makes the most sense, Sophie and the Skeptic were kind of missing the ball on some points. Skeptic incorrectly believes that just because men think of sex=success, that success for women must be defined the same way. Andrew addresses the sex (what men want) vs commitment (what women want) in other blog posts.

      Delete
    24. Thomas - I didn't say that there are no women who want casual sex. But MOST want commitment. Those have regular casual sex are in small minority worldwide, and many of them are actually hoping for commitment from the guys they're fucking with no string attached.

      This entire blog is based on the assumption that "women, on the whole, want monogamous relationships" and "men, on the whole, want casual sex". Those were the author's words, and all posts written are based on this.

      Delete
  8. Why are you linking to Roosh on your Twitter? His posts are incoherent, unfunny rambles. They're not even accurate or clever observations. While I agree that the use of "really?" is overdone in the US, that post made no sense. I think this blog is well written overall so you shouldn't lower the quality by admitting to read Roosh.
    Advice for women are more likely to go down when the author appears to be a man successful with high quality women. Roosh is not, he's bitter and angry.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If you don't appreciate Roosh, it is only because you haven't lived through much of what he talks about. While I won't pretend for a second that he isn't (sometimes) bitter, angry, and even occasionally wrong, I also will defend him in the many things he gets right.

      Delete
    2. Life experience is not always relevant - it depends how you've spent your life. Roosh is not looking for a serious relationship or marriage - even if he says he is, he is not. He would have found someone if he was. He cares more about causing controversy and attention (a narcissist) than relationships.
      He does not have experience with high quality women, or women looking for marriage. He hasn't spent time with them, both because he is uninterested and because they will naturally avoid him. That's what makes a lot of his advice irrelevant. There are limits to how many stories you want to listen to about women doing everything wrong. It's too obvious. When describing your experiences with a moron, you'll always look intelligent.

      Delete
    3. oh no. I have been enjoying reading these posts and comments but they look in danger of being taken over by men who have no idea of what women think (like Andrew and Hansolo) telling us what we think, and them descending into arguments. Can't the manosphere guys just leave women alone? the charm of this blog will otherwise vanish pretty quickly

      Delete
    4. Anon, you do realize that I (one of the guys who has "no idea of what women think") wrote every post on this blog, right? I mean, the same ones you say you are enjoying.

      Delete
    5. Some of you ladies, PLEASE CHILL...

      This is not a blog on how to change men or on how men should treat women better or anything like that.

      Men in this blog are giving us useful insight on what they think of relationships, marriage, girls, sex, religion, the way we dress or behave, etc. We ask them a question, they answer wholeheartedly as guys about what they think of that topic.

      In no way are they pretending to know us women. It's their perception of us that generally sways their thinking into certain directions. So, if we want them to think differently of us, we must act differently.

      If we keep criticizing them for being honest with answering our questions; honestly, they will eventually stop giving us insight or just tell us what we want to hear so we keep quiet.

      We should be grateful that there are genuine men out there helping us on understanding men better. Kudos to them!!

      Delete
    6. Roosh is a bitter misogynist. And not even a very good writer.

      Delete
    7. Sal

      If he is a bitter misogynist, how come he is having sex with so many women with little effort? Why is his behavior being rewarded? Why isnt his behavior being punished by women?

      If a young single guys intent is to have No Strings sex, whose advice is he better off following: the common woman's or Rooshs'?

      Delete
    8. Attracting women for sex is extremely difficult for most men. It is no wonder that men who can do this easily are hailed as studs or envied by other men. It is something that many single young men wish to do but very few can.

      If a guy has been sexually overlooked by women all his life but suddenly due to some change in circumstances he is somehow able to attract women, then a part of him wants to make up for all the lost years. He will tend to overcompensate for all the validation he never had. It is difficult to fill that void that is created in the early years of youth.

      The bitterness in men like Roosh comes from the sense of loyalty to their former straightforward but sexually overlooked selves.. The bitterness comes from the realization that it took for them to do the complete opposite of what men are normally supposed to do to attract women.

      We need to educate boys about female sexuality at a young age, so there are no unpleasant surprises when they grow up. We need to get rid of the deliberate misconceptions about women's sexuality. Otherwise we will only raise a new generation of bitter and misogynist men.

      Delete
  9. Andrew, do men fall in love at first sight more than women? Can you write a post about when he should know if you are "the one", when talks of marriage should come up? I'm tired of wasting years with men who end up marrying a girl they knew for only a year. I don't want to spend time with a man so long who has no desire to marry me, as I have the desire to settle down and have kids.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I already have a post about this. It's called "men don't fall in love the same way women do" (or something similar)

      Delete
    2. I think men are more visual so he can tell if she's attractive enough fairly quickly. Then it's just see if you're personalities and goals mesh enough.

      OTOH, women's attraction mechanisms are much more complicated and often take longer to trigger than men's.

      Delete
    3. Yeah, for the woman part that HanSolo said. I am a woman and the guy becomes more attractive the longer I know him. That is, assuming I still like him. Then, familiarity builds comfort. And that makes falling for the guy so much easier. It's like before you feel like it is you and a separate him. Then, you start feeling like it is 'we'. It makes walking away tougher, if it doesn't work out.

      Not sure if it is the same for guys. As I feel like guys have it easier going 'cold turkey' after break up. Like you know he really is down low, if he calls or texts you to see 'what's up'. Not talking about the booty call or text here. Though, I might be wrong on this one.

      Delete
    4. I think when a man is really in love with a woman he has a hard time forgetting her or stop loving her if she breaks up with him.

      OTOH, if he doesn't really love her then it's very easy to move on.

      Both have happened to me.

      I think that it is being strongly in love that makes men forget about one of their deep desires to have sex with lots of women and just care for and have sex with that one woman. And for him to really value her so much he has to feel it strongly. That is why a man in love is really devastated when the woman dumps him.

      But if his love isn't very strong or there at all then that women is just seen as one of many possible women he might be happy to have sex with but he doesn't feel any great bond to her and so it's easy for him to move on.

      Two very different situations.

      Delete
    5. @Hansolo

      How can a girl know if a man loves her deeply or not? The second scenario (the weak love) is the reason why I'm still a virgin at 22. I don't want to have sex until I am with a man like the one you described in the first scenario (the one who is deeply in love)

      Is there a way of knowing how much he loves you? Without jumping in the sack yet? How does a girl know if the man loves her more than anything or if he's just there in the mean time until someone better comes along?

      Delete
    6. @ Anonymous: Wow, it sounds like a man can know whether a woman is "the one" after one year. So if a guy doesn't propose after 1-2 years, we can check in with him regarding his thoughts about the relationship? And then leave if we don't like his answer?

      Delete
    7. @Jen

      It's really just a bunch of common-sense factors taken together. How much time does he want to spend with you? How happy and excited to be with you? Usually he will wait a bit longer for sex as long as you're making some progress (e.g. making out on a 2nd or 3rd date, or 5th if you're a slower mover, and telling him how sexy he is and how much you want him and can't wait to build up the level of closeness or trust required; then a few dates further, say 5 or 6 do making out with your top off; basically have some progress going so he can see it's leading somewhere). Players will keep a lot of women on text message communication, sending out bait, but are less likely to spend lots of time with you if they're not getting any action...unless you're a lot hotter than what he can usually get.

      Look at how he treats you, what he says and how he says it. Does he want to introduce you to friends or is more like he wants to keep you away from others because he's only wanting sex and is embarrassed to be seen with you.

      I think that a man is going to tend to be in love with the women at the upper end of who he can attract (and higher but he rarely can get them). If the guy is just going through the motions then it's more like he's just settling for "good enough for now."

      Another way you can tell a lot about what a man is feeling for you IS to have sex with him and then see how he acts afterwards. If a man is loving you he will tend to be affectionate with you after (though sleepy do to orgasm, of course, so don't just look at right after) and in the morning. If it was just sex but he doesn't like you enough to want you as his gf or be dating then he's likely going to be stand-offish. Basically the horniness will make him more affectionate before orgasm and then less after. He will become much more distant and want to get away. A man that loves you will wake up and be glad you're there in bed instead of thinking, "F, how do I get out of here asap?" And you could have middle ground where a man likes a FWB but doesn't love her and will be happy to have sex without any pressure to be bf/gf.

      Look at this article about how more women thought the cohabiting reln. was serious than the men did. These men didn't love the women (that much).

      http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/07/men-and-women-often-expect-different-things-when-they-move-in-together/277571/

      You have to weed out guys that aren't looking for commitment at all (though believing what is said is difficult since some guys will say they're not looking for anything serious when what they REALLY mean is nothing serious with YOU but don't want to be offensive). I think that a guy saying he IS looking for commitment and backs it up with wanting to spend lots of time with you and treats you well is a much safer bet...but it's still a bet.

      The catch-22 is that the lower in value the guy is the more likely he'll fall in love with the woman and the less likely the woman will fall in love with him. That's why the best match is probably when the guy is at the lower range of appeal and attractiveness to the woman...because he will likely be much more excited about such a woman than if a woman chooses a man that is everything she wants (and thus he has higher value both to her and many women similar to her). Of course, I'm simplifying things a lot so don't take it all as 100% gospel but more as rough things to think about and mold to what's going on in your life.

      Delete
    8. @Another Girl

      I think men can know even sooner if he's really in love but it's more a case of the women being at the edge of his acceptable range and so he's debating whether she's good enough (sorry, just being blunt and removing all the BS because that's what both man and woman are evaluating, even if only subconsciously and they only notice how they feel around each other).

      The problem is that women tend to have higher standards for the minimum level of guy they will accept and so they tend to try to date guys that are a bit higher value than them and thus the guys are never all that excited about them. Because believe you me. Find a girl that a guy is excited about and he's going to try to "lock down" commitment and exclusivity with her because he doesn't want to lose her.

      But a marginal girl that is kind of at the threshold...meh...he can find others just like her and is debating whether he can really find someone better or should just accept her because, after all, she's pretty good.

      And the guys that won't commit after several years? Hopeless and probably never strongly loved the woman. They were happy enough with having steady sex and a companion they reasonably like (but don't romantically love). And they're complacent. Not having enough courage or ambition to strive for a woman they really would love, or to improve themselves enough to be able to attract such a woman.

      So it's that old catch 22. The man that will really love the woman is likely not of enough "value" to be strongly loved by her. That's why finding passionate, romantic, deep love is hard. Only people that really trigger those things in someone will create that feeling and for it to be mutual is harder...it does happen but probably in cases where the man is getting a woman that's near the top of who he can attract and where the woman genuinely isn't too picky and hypergamous (wanting someone better than herself).

      Top 3 things a woman can do:

      1) Make herself more attractive so the guys she likes notice her more
      2) Work through what's she's attracted to and try to genuinely become less picky and demanding while still maintaining the most important things; this will increase the size of the pool of candidates
      3) "Market" herself by getting out there amongst the kind of men that would be good matches.

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    9. HanSolo, you are very insightful! Cool for you to share your knowledge - learning lots of interesting stuff. :-)

      Delete
    10. Hey, I was just reading the article you posted a link to HansSolo... and one of the comments was:

      "Because when guys break up they seek out the closest ----- or maybe easiest to get at."

      Is that true? Will guys seek the next available girl after they break a break-up? Or does it depend on whether he broke it off or she broke it off?

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    11. To supplement what hansolo said:

      I think there are factors contributing to men not wanting to commit other than the fact that the woman in question is not attractive enough.

      1. The woman in question is allowing the man to eat the cake and have it. If a man can manage to secure and lock up a woman without commentment, depending on the man, sometimes he would just eat the cake and have it. One example for a man to lock up a woman without marriage is for him to make the woman pregnant. Women usually grow strong attachment to men who they got pregnant for. In examples like this, even if the woman is what they men would usually marry for, the man might still choose not to commit since he can lock up her while not locking up himself.

      2. Another scenario is the woman is already in high value for marriage materials, but the woman is not putting herself to good access to the dating market. A woman should think carefully about where she lives and works, as well as how to meet valuable guys. Otherwise, even very amazing marriage material women can get stuck with very sucked up men, since the sucked up men may be the only men she can meet due to her circles. Even if she is already higher value than the man is, the man might still treat her badly. And the men may feel the woman is securely locked up still without marriages because he can see that the woman in question does *not* have proper alternatives other than him, due to the bad access to valuable men due to her circles/where she lives and works/how she gets to know men.

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    12. @Starlight Thanks. I think that women can learn a lot from men that are blunt and sincere, unlike the white knights and manginas that just say what is politically correct or what they think women want to hear. That's why Andrew has such a great site, because he tells it how he sees it and also because he does have good insight into not only men but things related to women.

      As to your question, I think that if a man is really in love and gets dumped it's going to be hard for him to really love soon. But...he will know that he know longer has anyone he has to be faithful to and may want to start trying to find someone to have physical contact with (and not all men are out looking for or open to casual sex; I would guess about 10-20% just aren't, based on conversations with some men at HUS and elsewhere). You also might have some who try to drown their pain in pussy, but few men are able to just snap their fingers and get some unless they already had some women pining after them.

      If he doesn't love her and broke up then he will definitely look for someone.

      But I'm not sure I agree that they just look for the closest or easiest woman they can find. I don't think it would be all that different than what their normal tastes and behaviors are. Some men are picky and lots aren't when it comes to casual. I think I would disagree with that statement in the sense of them being more likely to go slumming just when they break up.

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    13. Good points by Grace. I agree.

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    14. Nice insights, HanSolo! Thanks for answering my question!!

      It sounds self explanatory but why will he definitely look for someone? Can't he want to be single for a while? Please explain. :-)

      And also, another question (hope you don't mind): what's up with a man suddenly being attracted to a girl he never showed an interest in before? This one guy one day dumps his girlfriend, some time passes and suddenly he is interested in me. What the ? He knows me from before and so does his ex, why the interest now?

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    15. Wasn't meaning he can't want to be single. I meant that he'll look for someone to at least try and have sex with, not that he'll go out looking for a gf, though that can happen too. So he could definitely want to stay single and definitely look for someone for short-term sex.

      Maybe you are more attractive now. Not referring to you, but this can happen if a girl has lost weight or otherwise improved her appearance. Or maybe he always liked you but never thought he had a chance. Or maybe he saw you in a new light. Or just some random fluctuation in the force. Who knows? lol

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    16. Thanks for the reply, HanSolo! I get what you are saying now.

      But what if you look the same, basically haven't changed one bit? I guess he saw me in a different light, hey? I don't know... I guess as a girl, this doesn't make sense. If you never liked me that way before, why now? Also, I am way under his league (referring to the whole package), that's why it makes even less sense.

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    17. Not sure. These overall trends or principles I talk about are like a bunch of scattered data that still have an overall trend but with a reasonably large standard deviation. Yes, there is an overall trend and correlation but there is a big scatter in the data so in the end you have to realize that individual variation will still play a big role.

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    18. I think I am now completely confused, HanSolo. :( You mean, this one may be an exception to the rule? What would be the overall trend of being with a girl whose under his league?

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    19. Yes, I am saying this is probably an outlier. I mean, does this guy usually go for girls under his league or do you have guys out of your league showing you sincere attention and not just looking for sex? And what kind of attention is he showing you? Wants to marry-you type? Or wants to have-sex type?

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    20. I see. Thanks for explaining it to me!! Definitely an outlier. We are not together by the way - on very early stages.

      Hey, what's the difference in behaviour between a 'wants to marry-you type' and 'you are just my girlfriend type'?

      Hope I'm not asking you too many questions. I am just eager to learn. :)

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    21. What do you think his intentions are? Has he stated them? Are you just enjoying each other's company hanging out? Is he trying to have sex yet?

      The difference btw wants to marry and just gf can sometimes be hard to distinguish and it does take time. But it's all the common sense indicators (though it's surprising how often women will ignore all the warning signs when they're really attracted).

      It simply comes down to how into you he is (speaking of the general you). Does he love you through word and deed (adjusted for how he shows love)? Does he seem proud to have a woman as his gf and talk about the future? Or is it more like you're the one thinking about that and the only one to bring it up? My experience is that men that really love women and are into them will not doddle around forever, they'll want to take things to a more serious level. It's more the ones that are somewhat ambivalent that are the ones that take a lot longer. And often it's the women that are delaying as well, stereotypes aside. I had two gfs I wanted to marry and in the end both broke up with me. I've also broken up with gfs I wasn't that into so it goes both ways.

      I think women can help themselves by making it more clear about what they want in general terms and after enough time with their bf. If they want a man that's excited about them then better to filter out the wishy washy ones and get realistic about what type of man will really be excited to marry her, probably (though not always) a man that's 0.5 or 1 points lower than the most appealing man she could hog-tie into a relationship, and probably 1-3 points lower than the hottest men she could get for sex (depending on how hot she is; a 9 could only get a 10 man for example whereas a 5 could get an 8 if she offered it up real easy).

      But women want fried ice, they want the out of their league man to be utterly smitten with her. That's what many of the romance novels and movies are about (though often in the movies they put a hot woman in). Think of Pride & Prejudice, Twilight, 50 Shades of Gray and others. In each case the men are way out of the woman's league but fall madly in love with these women. The biggest laugh is when women start arguing that "no they're not!" LMAO Talk about a massive hamster taking over their brains.

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    22. I would have to relocate for it to work out. Sure he's not objecting for me to move to where he lives, but he hasn't given any indication that he'd be willing to move to where I am. So, I am not sure he is serious. I am not going to relocate for something flaky. What do you think?

      Great advice! LOL at the comment of a hamster taking over some female brains...

      Delete
  10. I don't think Andrew can speak for all men but from my observations and experience, men generally know at first sight whether you are a candidate for wifehood or not. If you are, then it just takes that little bit "extra" from you to push him over the line. Men always do things for a reason and if he shafted you for someone he knew for a much shorter period of time, it suggests he never considered you seriously as relationship material.

    Sometimes you are such a catch that he wants to nab you as fast as he can, before you slip from his grasp - which is usually when you are very desirable and he thinks he simply cannot get anyone better than you. Or maybe you aren't that much of a catch, but he is far below you in the desirable stakes - the manosphere refers it to his relative SMV or MMV ro yours.

    If he hangs around you without a committment then he is :
    1) doesn't see you as relationship material and just using you for sex/companionship while he waits for someone better to come along
    2) sees you as relationship material, but not in a position to commit - ie hasn't established career, unsure about his long term job prospects etc.

    The hard part is figuring out whether you are 1) or 2) and if 2) what to do about it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah, so what do you do if you are 2?

      I had where the guy said that he isn't looking for marriage right now, when we broke up. Even though I never asked for that. And we were moving apart to establish our own careers. So we broke up. He told me that he would never be my friend, if we broke up (earlier). Now, every now and then, he tries to check on me.

      I took it to mean that it doesn't matter either way. Don't wait for a guy to be in a position to commit. Who knows what happens by then?

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  11. Andrew, my biggest problem is figuring out how to tell a guy when I will sleep with him. I'm 23 and a virgin, at first I tried to be honest and say I want to for commitment but they left me. Then I tried avoiding the topic, but that ended badly as well. I really want to wait until I'm committed before sex. How can I make that clear, so the early stages of dating doesn't have to be so awkward?

    I read your virginity post and i was soo happy when i found it that its okay to wait for commitment. i thought no guys would do that.

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    Replies
    1. Hi, Girly. I am also waiting until commitment. I've experienced the same reaction from guys.

      I was listening to Evan Marc Katz. Basically, he said that if the subject of sex comes up, you can express to the guy, first, how much you like and are attracted to him but that you are waiting until you are a couple/have commitment. If the guy leaves, then he only cares about having sex and not you.

      Keep saying no until the time is right!

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    2. Value yourself first and foremost, and the right guy will value you!

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    3. Thanks Another Girl! I've heard of him. That sounds like the best thing. As long as he knows you want him but just waiting for the right time, he'll know you want to and you can wait. Win-win!

      I like your username! ;]

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    4. @Girly

      You can slowly escalate too: every 1 or 2 or 3 dates take it up a small notch. Go from kissing during dates 2-4 to allowing him to grab your clothed boobs during dates 5-7, all the while telling him how turned on you are and really want him and can't wait to have him (don't talk about commitment right in that moment but in calmer waters beforehand you'll have made it clear that you only want sex after commitment). Then on dates 8-10, take your shirt off and allow some boob play. Then as further dates go on, take his pants off and give him a hand job. And so on.

      Of course, that timeline is just an example. You can adjust it as you see fit.

      A guy who just wants sex probably won't stick around but one that really likes you will see that things are escalating and won't be in such a rush. Complete abstinence (meaning no making out, no fondling allowed, etc.) and no sincere indication that you want him sexually will likely be frustrating.

      So realize there are ways to slowly escalate sexually while doing lots of nice things for him to emotionally escalate with him. As long as you picked someone who's not an a-hole, total player or out of your league then that man will be so surprised by your nice treatment (most men don't get much nice treatment from women, FYI) that he will wait and probably even want to have commitment sooner than you might have thought.

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    5. Good advice!!!! Oddly, I thought the "little by little" tactic might tease him, creating false hope that sex is nearer than it will be. But now I can see its actually better...the anticipation will keep the tension and chase going.

      I like it!!

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    6. Yes, the kind of cock-tease that men hate is one who dresses sexy and might verbally tease him with innuendo and even go out with him but not give him any action of any kind.

      The thought that you're never going to get any action is what is really frustrating to men.

      The gradual progression of more and more physicality is fine for most men, especially if they like the woman and could see themselves in a reln with her. This should be combined with lots of emotional escalation to create a bond (meaning, you use your feminine energy to make him feel special, appreciated, respected and engaged; you do nice things for him--most men haven't had much nice treatment by women they really like and are more used to rejection and suspicion from women; you also engage his mind with fun and interesting conversation that he likes; you do fun activities together).

      As long as the man likes you and sees an eventual path to sex with some gratification in the here and now then that will work very well and probably make the sex more bonding for him when you finally do have it.

      Sex with love or strong like and some emotional bond, with an attractive woman, is much better than just sex with the same attractive woman.

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    7. The last sentence is incredibly encouraging. I was so frustrated on how I would handle this, but I realize it won't be so bad.

      Now tell me this, is it possible to have commitment BEFORE sex?

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    8. It's possible but not with an out of your league guy. If it's a guy that really likes you (so likely in your league or under) and is looking for a reln then it's possible. It still might be difficult but definitely doable.

      I'd say if you've had some makeouts and even more intimate contact but not yet sex then you can just say I only have sex with someone who's my bf and see what he says. If he really likes you and you're strongly committed to no sex before commitment I think it can work, though you might lose a few guys too.

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    9. @Hansolo

      I have lost a few guys already and I'm fine with that. I grew up old-fashioned and I'm emotional. At one point I wanted to wait until marriage. But I realized I didn't need to the tie the knot to know he's someone I can be vulnerable to. A committed relationship is good enough for sex (for me that is)

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    10. Hey you two,
      I understand your problem but imo it's both your good right but also partially your fault. If I commit, I take the commitment really seriously. Which is why I think twice before I commit. So here's the deal:
      1) Is she physically extremely hot?
      2) Is she interesting?
      3) Is she good in bed and do we share sexual preferences?

      Only if all 3 conditions are met I consider committing. If I haven't slept with her yet, I always assume the worst so she doesn't meet the requirements. I also want to emphasize that if she asks me to commit before the sex, I sometimes get the impression that she may be really bad in bed and scared of losing me when I realise she's a really bad lover. So she wants me to guarantee my commitment first.
      Hell no, I won't make that deal. Thanks.
      (May not apply to all men, just my personal oppinion)
      What HanSolo said is also very true - if they're way below your league they probably will think you're a good catch and stick around and let you play them. The thing is that they give you what you first and foremost want all the time (emotional connection) but you don't give them their primary need (sex) in return. You take, take take and take. You think you give them what they want, but you don't. It will send the guys with high standards running, even if they would've been open to commitment otherwise. Not trying to malign what you're doing or wanting, because that's your good right, just as it's the men's good right to say no thank you and move on.
      My standards required to commit are high due to an abundance of women. Which is what as good as every man experiences with women - they always have an abundance and usually don't even look at men in the same league as they. So don't tell me I'm not being fair ;o)

      Peace and I wish you best of luck finding a man to commit. :)

      Delete
    11. So Girly, is he above your league ?

      Delete
  12. This is a wonderful, positive post. Well done. For those of you not married...get married. It is better to have a partner. Marry someone that you have as much in common with as possible.

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    1. You make it sound like we can just go find a partner they way we go to the grocery store to buy milk. Actually, it's better to be single than to be with the WRONG partner.

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    2. You are right. The best way to find the right one is to know yourself as well as possible. Then put yourself in as many situations with similar people as possible. Make a mental list of what is an absolute deal breaker. I am married to a very kind, wonderful man...but I had to settle a bit to get married. Some of what they say above is true. You might have to compromise a bit.

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    3. Compromise, absolutely! But getting married for the sake of being married (which is what so many of my friends do out of desperation!) is just not for me.

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    4. It is hard. Dating does kinda suck. Good luck!

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    5. Never mind. I just saw your post below. :)

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  13. It feels like your post is timely enough because I'm currently struggling through "something" - I don't know how to define this relationship/situation. I come from a more conservative Asian society. I haven't had much problems with attracting back a guy I like... however, things always come to a stalemate after a while. I know this has a lot to do with my personality because I'm always so shy and awkward; a sad irony that the more I like the guy, the worse it is. I've also been an introvert and homebody for most of my life... though I know I should change (and will).

    It hurts so much because this time, I really thought it would work out with this guy... and I really want it to.

    But he's slowly become more distant and his messages lost their previous enthusiasm after each date.

    I still wish it would work out but I'm losing hope. This post gives me hope, though, and it's not a bad thing. :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. People are drawn towards interesting people. Do you have any hobbies? Something beyond reading, watching movies, playing computer games and listening to music.

      Stamp collecting can be fascinating to some - the detailing of each stamp, the history behind it and so forth. Others like boating, all the adventures you can have. Maybe you enjoy fishing? Stories about tackling fish. Or have you thought about volunteering at a soup kitchen? I bet there are some cool tales to be shared there, too.

      If you are interesting, you heighten your attractiveness factor.

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    2. Samantha,
      I have trouble talking to guys as well yet people that I work with are starting to tell me that I'm not a shy person. I grew up with few close confidants so I have difficulty with intimacy which is why I want to start seeing a therapist.
      I'm dating someone right now and I'm too afraid to have the DTR talk. The last guy I dated lied to me about being married and then did the fade.
      You should also read Andrew's posts on "How to be Social" and "The Big Picture."

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    3. Dear Beth,
      I'm sorry to hear about the last guy you dated; I'm sorry but he's an asshole.

      My problem is - I'm extremely self-conscious and as a consequence very shy. Once I know someone well enough, I don't have a problem with intimacy, but I rarely get past the first barrier. I try, though, and there's progress but it's always ever so slight, and I don't know how much more of these "things" which fail to become relationships I can bear.

      Although I have come to learn to protect myself by making sure my level of emotional investment is always a "safe" one. I.e. I don't allow myself to fall in love, or like someone too much, before an appropriate level of commitment.

      I try to open up, be a fun person and have fun... In a way, I try not to care. Perhaps you should too employ this and just do it - the DTR talk. Don't care too much, because ultimately it won't change his mind about committing or not. After which you will then have to decide a course of action to take! - I do wish you all the best.

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    4. Thank you Samantha. Unfortunately, I was not a complete innocent at the time so I think what happened to me was a result of my indiscretion.
      I paid more than enough back in karma.

      Anyway, I meant to direct you to those two posts that Andrew wrote so that you could try what I am trying now. Instead of worrying about what you look like when you're talking or thinking am I giving too much or not enough eye contact which is something I tend to do sometimes. You can focus on giving the guy a really good compliment or being more affectionate.

      Another tip I have read is that you could try talking about anything that you feel passionate about. For people like us (I am also Asian but was raised by Americans) who are very withdrawn and tend to talk very little, I think we're given a pass if we give an occasional impassioned monologue about something. It's part of that attractive feminine energy that I keep reading about. Another thing I am considering is saying something more personal about myself that is not too heavy and not worrying about if this is coming out of left field in order to create intimacy.

      I feel like I am also at a stalemate with the guy and am tired of discussing my interests, hobbies, and other superficial topics. Like you, I have never been in a relationship because as soon as a guy would express any interest in me I would push them away or end up moving away. I moved about eight times both overseas and across the country before I settled in one state for thirteen years at the age of nine.

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    5. Hi Beth,
      I read through your recommended posts, will definitely take heed of them! Thank you for your advice too, they really make sense.

      Also, I am going to try out his "Three Mistake Minimum" on the next date... it's different, and sounds fun!

      I wish there's progression in your relationship soon! Otherwise, I hope you don't waste your time on him. In my case too, I am going to keep my options open... because I believe a relationship will happen when I'm "ready", as you will understand too. And for me, if it doesn't happen with this guy, I hope at least I've learnt something from this or grown... and on to the next one, in due time! ;)

      Keeping fingers crossed!

      Delete
  14. How long after a man has gotten out of a long-term relationship should a woman wait to date him? I realize this is a highly individual and circumstantial question, but are there any general guidelines? What if he says it's definitely over but they're still occasionally in touch? Do men still talk to exes if there is no longer any interest in them?

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  15. Anything worth having is worth fighting for, right? My problem is, I'm not good at playing hard to get. I'm by no means easy, but I'm not good at dumping guy if he doesn't commit or being the "bitch" that men seem to love.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You will want to read my next post, which will talk about being a "bitch."

      Delete
    2. Can't wait! Love your blog.

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    3. Looking forward to the next post, too. Super helpful advice! Thanks Andrew!!

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    4. I've been refreshing my feeds lately in anticipation of your next posting, Andrew. Post that thing!

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  16. Reading these replies have made so many thoughts swim through my head today:

    A bit about me- I married a man who is very kind, well off, and at a level plane in the looks department. He is a lower social and intellectual class than me. However, I am 170 lbs and 5'5- so being fat has always been an issue for me. I decided to look for a mans man redneck who thought I was hot the way I am. We are pretty happy, but we do not have many of the same interests. I do count myself lucky to have him.

    My father, married my mother, his 5th wife, primarily for her looks. Mother was 22 years youner than him, and since he was a dr. I imagine that she viewed him as her ticket out of poverty. Though he was quite handsome and witty, they had very little in common intellectually. I think my Dad died a very lonely man.


    My mother in law, a red neck folksy sort, tells all of her children that it is best for the man to marry beneath him. That way the woman will always feel she has a prize and the sensitive male ego will have someone to dote on him.

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  17. Question -

    My boyfriend of 3 months (we were friends first and we were pretty serious - we spent pretty much all of our time together - but he initiated all of that) broke up with me a few weeks before the end of the school year (I am a grad student). After the break up I didn't contact him at all, but a few days later he started coming to study with me and he would text me to hang out, told me how pretty I was, how nice I looked, once told me how much he still liked me, etc. I told him he needed to stop saying stuff like that because he ended it and he can't go back and forth like that. However, I let him study with me (he sat at my study table and I didn't make him leave). We are apart for the summer and he has tried to talk to me a few times online and via text message. I have responded politely but usually I wait awhile and keep it brief and then leave and now its been almost a month since we've talked.
    Did I ruin my chances of him changing his mind by how I acted?

    Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. he will come around if that is what he wants. I suspect he wanted to keep the option of sleeping with you. You did the right thing and if he distanced himself, it is only because he saw that option wasn't there.

      If he wants you, he will come and ask you to take him back. You should be dating other men or trying to forget him any other way that you can.

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  18. In my humble opinion he was trying to keep you around as his Plan B. I don't think you ruined anything, and I'd move on and go no contact.

    E.

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    Replies
    1. thanks ... i'm doing no contact now and trying to move on. his reasons for breaking up were seemingly legitimate - he had some stuff going on in his life he had to deal with - he did the whole "i like you a lot and this is really hard ... but i have to get this stuff straightened out before I can be serious with somebody." i just was hoping that once he worked it out he'd come around.

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  19. BOOM! Out of the park Andrew.. love this so much. Have always felt this way. I've always seen heartbreak as an opportunity to improve myself, grow a little more, mature and be a more well-rounded kick ass person. Love this positivity from you.. thanks

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  20. DIFFERENT VIEWS...DIFFERENT CULTURES...DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS=....
    grasp this one....none of us are meant to be alone...but lots of us are...we allow ourselves to slip into a realtionship..probably because we both want to be..loved,and then ..when we touch..mainly with our lips first,that is the starting point..of where it all begins...
    ....and 80% of the time,it slips into the bedroom arena,where of course,the nice parts ..take over....,and then ...if the chemistry is there,then we...later..want more,as it was nice.....and ..hence..a serious relationship begins....,but,when we begin to ..learn more about each other,what happens to the chemistry..as..when we are apart,what do we see,around us,that may seem better,but inside we already have what we want,and when we are back together,we do that nice stuff all over again,and both hopefully feel better afterwards..dont we...and WE CALL THAT LOVE...well,its not,its lust,and that has a very powerfull adhesive...that adhesive can cause many problems,if not administered the right way...
    I have suffered from that mistake...and boy,is it horrible...I let myself go...and now I feel like I should not have done it...but,my flesh took over...and now the pain exisits...and wont go...I am a white male...just over 60,she is just over 50...and after 4 years of "deep love..(or was it love?),we parted....and I feel like a part of me has been severly "burnt"....so now I suffer...and,as much as I want to love again...what woman,or,is there a really decent lady out there,whom I can really trust....,one who hasnt been with a "few men",to see whos better than the last..?,or do I just become ...a...loner...any one help???

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    1. You're definitely right about the lust. You sound like a spiritual man. Maybe you are looking for much more than just a woman.

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  21. At a bar one night I met a guy I had gone to highschool with but who I was not friends with (we graduated 7 years ago), and took him home that night. He approached me that night and I had seen him out on other occasions where he had stared at me but would not approach, and I did not approach him either. Anyways, we had good conversation and had sex, except I think it was mediocre for him since we were both drunk, but sex feels amazing for me when I'm drunk. He asked if I would go down on him and I said no because I was so tired and about to pass out. He didn't push me or anything, he just let me fall asleep and held me all night in his arms. He ended up having to go to the bathroom to puke ( don't worry, he showered and brushed his teeth etc. lol so it wasn't gross, he just can't hold his liquor I guess). Even though he was affectionate I had resolved it in my mind that this would just be a one night stand. Anyways in the morning he wanted to have sex again and he really turned me on even though I felt like if I was going to have sex with him again it might make me bond closer to him, but I did it anyways because like I said I found what was happening really hot. He ended up cumming in two minutes and I started laughing and saying "wow", I couldn't help it even though now in hindsight I know this was mean. He said he could keep going but I said "no, it's okay" while still laughing. He then looked for reassurance that I had a good time last night, and I told him the sex was awesome. We went back to sleep and around 11am he said he was going to head out. I thought this would be the end, no numbers exchanged, but he said "I can take your number". Now, I've never had a guy OFFER to take my number so I just kind of stared into space for a while in a really awkward way and put my hands in my pockets. Then he looked awkward and went on about how his phone "wasn't really working", though he gave it to me and I put my number in. He never called me. Is this because of how I acted (awkward, rude, wouldn't give him oral sex) or was it because he just wanted a one night stand? I saw him on "people you may know" on facebook last week and added him, and he accepted pretty fast. I messaged him later that night to see if he wanted to come over, but he didn't reply until the next day when I told him I had said hello because I wanted to know if he wanted to come over again. He never replied to that though we still have one another on facebook. I kind of wanted to establish him as an occasional booty call. So what went wrong? Was it what I did, or did he really just want a one time thing? Also, do guys normally accept ONS on facebook?

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    1. You were too easy that night and too aggressive and available after that night. I seriously doubt he will be back, unless he gets really drunk and has no other options. He might call you at 2 am if he's wantin some easy coochie. You sound like a guy. Are you always that emotionless with guys or is it a front?

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    2. OP here- I'm just finding it easy to be emotionless with him because A. I'm moving to another continent in two months and have no desire to get attached to anyone and B. he was a dick in highschool (although we didn't know one another, I was an ugly duckling back then and he was just an alpha)

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    3. He must be well above your league to not be interested in a fuck buddy arrangement. It seems he has a lot of easy sexual options much better than you, so he isn't motivated enough.

      But in any case. Just amazed once again how easy it is for women to have sex with men above their league.

      I'm sure that you have a lot of contempt for men who approach you for sex but are, heaven forbid, your equals in looks.

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  22. OP here- I'm just finding it easy to be emotionless with him because A. I'm moving to another continent in two months and have no desire to get attached to anyone and B. he was a dick in highschool (although we didn't know one another, I was an ugly duckling back then and he was just an alpha)

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  23. I met a guy last week and we hung out. Now he "likes" my new facebook pics, comments on my stuff, and texts me telling me I'm gorgeous. BUT he won't ask me to hang out! I tried putting out a feeler and seeing if he was downtown tonight, but he didn't reply. Why?

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    1. Very strange. How old is he? If he's over 24, he should be making a move, if he isn't doing it it is because he is dating other people and wants to keep his options open with you, but doesn't have time to ask you on a date.

      Forget the social media stuff for now. It won't mean too much from an older guy, go by how he acts when you are around. Do not ask him out.

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    2. he's 23, I'm 22

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    3. He's trying to lay bait, to get you to ask him out. Because f you do, that means to him you're easy for sex on 1st date. Guys will pretty much have sex with any women who pursue them. Don't go for the bait.

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  24. Replies
    1. OR he was abducted by aliens. I wouldn't worry about it. Don't make emotional investments in people until you know them well enough.

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    2. no he definitely doesn't have a gf, he's not really the player type either - OP

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  25. Lol very good advice

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  26. Andrew-reading this while getting a pedicure-this is a great post. Very thoughtful, concise, and filled with good reminders! This is unrelated, but amusing article. An interesting communication problem leading to divorce: Rupert Murdoch couldn't understand his chinese wife because of her accent.
    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/entertainment/2013/07/you-mean-it-took-ten-years-rupert-murdoch-notice-wendi-dengs-accent/66920/

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  27. For a few months now I have been reading briefly..some of the comments on this"blog" about relationships,and the wording used is way off track...why I said this is mainly because all of us on this site have gone through relationship breakups at one stage or another...having typed in those words,what we have missed...is ...why do relationships,so often fall apart..well,in my case,it was a none love situation,mixed with lack of financial income,and jealousy on her part(she told me that I was eyeing her sister out when we first met,which was nonsense)It was also to do with a cross cultural thing,me being from Southern Africa,and her British..
    Her big issue was a marriage breakup,because of alcohol(him)(after 20 + years,she finally left him!)...mine was unforgiveness,(she wouldnt forgive my past wrongs)...all of this ..over a period of 4 years.led to us parting,and I regret it,as I needed more time,but she wanted her life back...so I told her to go..and said some stupid things..like..."I never want to see you again!"....I never meant that,but out of hurt,those words...came out...At this stage of my life,I have finally given up of ever getting back to her,as I feel she may have gone back to the house her name was still on,and he also...in all..what a mess I got myself into...I still have the photo of when we first met...a New Years day!...never mind...I dont really know what to do,but am trying to plan to go..to..my ..home ...soil...as there is no real reason for me to stay here anymore...where am I "GB"...anyone who thinks I am doing the wrong thing...tell me please...Im over 60...("zainy professor"the nickname she gave me!)

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  28. Hi Andrew, would be interested to see if you write any humorous posts. I just stumbled on this and it appears to primarily be dating and self improvement tips for clueless young women. I like your writing style, would you consider writing other types of posts on your blog? Thanks
    Maryam

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  29. Andrew, all-(1) does the size of a man's penis matter? (2) Is it superficial to not date a guy because he is shorter?

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    1. I am wondering about (1) myself. I recently met a fantastic guy ... incredible physical attraction between us, he's driven, has a truly noble character, beefcake football player body, plays no "game" with me, we click on so many values and emotional levels ... and when we started to get intimate I was devastated to discover he has a very small penis. I say devastated because a good sex life is very important to me, I'm divorced from a man I wasn't physically attracted to, no sex, and I was miserable, it was incredibly painful to the soul. I want to make my new man really happy in the bedroom, but if he doesn't satisfy me, I'm very worried that my enthusiasm for the physical relationship will drop ... this aspect is so important for a good relationship all around.

      Can others tell me about their experiences in similar situations?

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    2. Andrew re (1), is yours xs, s, m, l, or xl?? Inquiring minds need to know :)

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