Friday, September 9, 2011

Don't Initiate Contact

I wrote a similar post about not initiating contact after a guy breaks up with you. This is somewhat related, but deals instead with the beginning of a relationship. The underlying principles, however, are the same...

Women are forever trying to figure out a man's intentions by reading between the lines of texts, interpreting things he said, or things he didn't. This is usually too difficult to warrant the effort it takes, but it is entirely the wrong approach for another reason: there are all kinds of men that are willing and able to lie their way into a woman's pants - yes, even yours. If you find yourself having difficulty determining a man's level of interest because "first he said X, but then he said Y," or even if you know exactly what he is saying and are sure he is interested, stop yourself. What a man says is the worst possible indicator of his interest: you need to pay attention to what he does.

This is why it is so important for a woman to allow a man to initiate contact after an initial meeting, and even well into the relationship. I've heard a number of girls actually complain about this, apparently preferring a situation in which they wouldn't be stigmatized for chasing men, or even for taking the initiative in "small things" like the first phone call or date. (These complaints always come from women who don't get enough attention from men. If you fall into this category, I suggest you read the other posts.)

If men didn't try to sleep with lots of women with no strings attached, or if women didn't want stable relationships, then it is conceivable that women could approach men. But given the undeniable preferences of the two sexes, the situation couldn't be other than what it is. Women, who, on the whole, are more interested in stable relationships, necessarily assume a defensive position against men, who (again, on the whole) are more interested in casual sex than women.

A woman's "game" can be broken down into the following three parts:
  1. Making herself as attractive as possible
  2. Making herself approachable
  3. Filtering out the men that just want to have sex with her from the men that want to date her
While there is a lot to learn about the first part of female game (optimizing attractiveness), there is just as much to learn about the latter part (filtering). Filtering is necessary because the men that a woman wants to date are a subset of the men that want to have sex with her, and by making herself more attractive to potential boyfriends she also is making herself more attractive to all men. Because I needed to practice my skills in PowerPoint, I've illustrated this with a Venn diagram:


As most girls probably know, it can be difficult to determine which men fall into which category. And as I mentioned at the beginning of this post, if you are only paying attention to what a man says, it can be impossible. A girl interested in saving her time and emotional energy needs to be as adept as possible at discerning these these types of men. And this is why it is so important for a woman not to initiate contact with a man. When you initiate contact with a man before you know his intentions, you are denying yourself the least equivocal and therefore most important indication of his interest. I will go as far as to say that you are denying yourself the only reliable indication of his interest.

A man might make eye contact with you from across the bar, but unless he overcomes his fear or leaves his buddies in order to approach you, he isn't into you enough. Don't approach him. A man might say he wants to see you, but unless he calls to set up a date, he doesn't care enough. Don't call or text him. A man might tell you to come and visit him, but if he cares enough, he will come to you if you suggest it.

I could give all kinds of examples, but you get the point. By making it easy for a man, you risk wasting your time and energy on someone who is only interested in having sex with you, or maybe worse, someone who will actually agree to a relationship or even marriage, only to change his mind months or years later when he realizes he wants someone he considers better. Taking the initiative is not a right that men have over women; it is (or should be) a hurdle that women place in front of men to make them prove their interest.

Disclaimer: A man will jump over a lot of hurdles to sleep with a woman that is hotter than himself, or at least, hotter than the other girls he's slept with. The more attractive you are relative to him, the more cautious you need to be. This is complicated by the fact that it is perfectly possible for a man that is less attractive than a girl to be sexually attracted to her and interested in her as a person (i.e. not overwhelmed by her beauty so much that he doesn't consider her personality). There is a danger of losing a guy like this by putting up too many hurdles and discouraging him. My suggestion: don't play below your league.


Related Posts
1. Cut Him Off
2. Don't Try to Be One of The Guys
3. You Are Responsible for Your Own Romantic Happiness 

146 comments:

  1. Great post and the timing is incredible, as I'm working on a post about women initiating!

    It sounds like the best thing women can do is work on being approachable. What are your tips for that? Is it as simple as smiling, making eye contact? A friendly hello, or is that too much?

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  2. This seems to reiterate the old saying that if you have to ask if he likes you, he doesn't...it has definitely been true in all of my experience with boys/men.

    What is your opinion on dealing with guys that you are friends with/hang out with? As a college sophomore, I have made a lot of guy friends who I would definitely be interested in possibly exploring relationships with at some point, and I know that they are attracted to me (because they say so and make it abundantly clear in their stereotypical drunk-boy compliments), but nothing ever happens with them because I know a drunken hook up would be a huge mistake. How can I walk this line and show them that I'm interested without just giving in to their drunken horniness and making a fool of myself?

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  3. I also appreciate the timing of this post. On another blog, there is a fall challenge for women to make more approaches:

    http://bbsezmore.wordpress.com/2011/09/09/the-bb-fall-challenge-for-women-only/

    Would you say this goes against your rule of not initiating contact? It seems to me that there is much to say about approachability vs. approaching.

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  4. Thanks for the insightful blog. I have a few questions if you don't mind:

    What about later into the relationship? Should girls -never- initiate contact, or is there a threshold after which it's ok? If the guy is constantly making the effort wouldn't he eventually get the impression that the girl isn't that interested anyway?

    What about shy men? I've been in situations where I found out months after meeting men that didn't make much effort to initiate (and neither did I) that they were harbouring fierce crushes. One of them in particular was someone I would have been interested in had he made a move, but at the time I was genuinely in the dark about how he felt, and when I'd eventually found out it was impractical to do anything about it due to distance.

    Also, with the SMP being the way it is, and girls with lower "rankings" able to score (at least in the short-term) with higher-numbered men, how can a girl objectively gauge her league?

    (Also also, just wondering about the diagram - are the light blue and lavender supposed to be reversed?)

    Sorry for so many questions. You seem like a well of wisdom and, for a girl like me with little experience, it's nice to read a man's perspective.

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  5. Susan, I just wrote a post on being approachable, which will go up soon.

    Bellita, yes, and thanks for the link.

    Later in a relationship a girl can start to initiate, but this should wait until she has a good gauge of his interest and commitment to her.

    Shy men are like women that don't dress well or take care of themselves physically: they need to change. Confidence is the most important male attribute for attracting women. The situation you described will hopefully be a learning experience for the guy who had a crush on you. And while it is somewhat regrettable that the relationship never happened, think about how much better of a man he will be once he learns from his mistake. If you'd initiated, he wouldn't have learned and you'd be stuck dating a guy with no balls.

    What does SMP stand for? A girl cannot gauge her league in the short term. Neither can a guy, actually, since in the short term he will normally only have girls below his league be receptive. Both sexes can gauge their league in the long term by looking at the people they've dated for any reasonable amount of time, i.e. the people that were considering them seriously as a partner.

    The colors in the legend are mixed up, I will fix that tomorrow. Thanks for the heads up.

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    1. where's the post on being approachable? My friend says their are 3 keys to attracting guys.. .being: FUN, SEXY, and APPROACHABLE.

      I think you've covered well how to be "sexier." But could maybe use more advice on being fun and approachable!

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    2. Pretty sure Andrew has a post here somewhere about being approachable, e.g. in a bar situation, with diagrams showing how your positioning can influence guys into approaching, or prevent them from doing so.

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    3. I found this site just when I needed it. I went out on a date with a guy last week, he has texted me since then but hasn't asked me out for a second date. I've been wondering if I should text him today or not as the weekend is coming up soon. We have texted back and forth all day a couple times but then I won't hear from him for a day or so. My friends told me that since he has always texted me first, that it's ok if I send him one as I don't want to seem uninterested. However in my past, I've learned that if the guy likes me he will text me first. I'm going to follow your advice.

      Can you write a post about texting? I feel like the all day long conversations get kind of annoying but how do I end it? I'd rather talk in person or on the phone and use text to get straight to the point of setting up plans. It's also very easy to misinterpret texts. Would be interested in your thoughts on it.

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    4. I second Anonymous 6:22. How to end the conversation and get to making plans without initiating/being too forward?

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    5. Oh this is exactly my situation too! Went on a date a week ago and he asked if I would want to go out again and I said yes, well he texted me about every other day during the week (I only initiated once bc I didn't want to seem uninterested) but has not set up any concrete plans. Not to mention we agreed when first we met that if we weren't interested we would tell each other up front. It's so frustrating and confusing! Either make the date or tell me your not interested so I can forget you and move on ya know!

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  6. What is your opinion on dealing with guys that you are friends with/hang out with?

    The principle is the same. If they need you to initiate, they are either too shy or aren't interested enough. The only thing different among friends is proximity, which doesn't affect the principle; it just increases the opportunities the guy has to initiate.

    I am going to write a separate post about dealing with shy guys, because I acknowledge that this post overlooks them somewhat.

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    1. Shy guys are the best :) Did you ever post that one?

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    2. Not yet.

      Why do you like shy guys? Because you feel comfortable around them?

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  7. I'm looking forward to the "shy guys" post as well!

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  8. Love your blog- it tops my list-- right up there with "what women never hear"--- thank you very much for taking the time to post.

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  9. "....it is so important for a woman to allow a man to initiate contact after an initial meeting..."

    OK, but just how are those initial meetings supposed to happen? Are you assuming that those initial contacts are random, chance events? Or are you advising women to be passive wallflowers until cold-approached by a man? And just what is your definition if "initiate"?

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  10. I think that entirely too many women will interpret "Don't initiate contact" to mean "don't send out IOI's.

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  11. Yeah, the terminology needs clarification here. "Initiating contact" can mean so many things.

    In my experience, the courtship dance (or initial seduction) is very much a dynamic process. Yes, as a man, I will do the first explicit MOVE in a vast majority of situations but I need some reassurance from the girl that she'd be at least remotely pleased to be on the receiving end of one. Living in a metropolitan area means that I'm running at least weekly into girls who I find attractive and pleasant enough to consider as a romantic prospect. There's flirty chitchat at social gatherings, tango classes at night, random encounters on the street... you know the drill. However, the chase is NEVER on until there's an indication of interest from her part. I will not do a total cold approach in any situation and I will not escalate without any encouraging feedback.

    So yeah, the difference between 'being approachable' and 'initiating contact' is too muddy. Also, are we talking about a first approach (as in the bar example) or those first floundering steps towards a potential relationship (as in most other text)?

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  12. "how are those initial meetings supposed to happen? Are you assuming that those initial contacts are random, chance events?"

    From the man's perspective, no, they are not random at all. They are the direct result of his initiative. He sees a girl he likes, he approaches her (even if "approach" is a message online), and she either responds or not. From a woman's perspective, though these events or approaches will be less a direct result of her initiative, she still has a large amount of control over how attractive she is, her figure, body language, personality, etc. - the things that make a guy want to approach her. So even from the female perspective these aren't random events.

    "are you advising women to be passive wallflowers until cold-approached by a man?"

    For the most part, yes. If you do this, you will know the guy is interested - no questions. Because men want more casual sex, and play below their league, women need to gague their interest, and making them take the first move is the best way of doing this.

    "And just what is your definition if 'initiate'?"

    Initiate is any action that starts the interaction. Usually it is walking up to a girl you are interested in (at a bar, the grocery store, beach, wherever) and saying hello. But it could also be a message on a dating website, or asking for a phone number after you are introduced by friends. It is any action that is the first step away from a platonic relationship and towards a romantic and/or sexual relationship.

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  13. "However, the chase is NEVER on until there's an indication of interest from her part. I will not do a total cold approach in any situation and I will not escalate without any encouraging feedback."

    Most guys I know make cold approaches all the time.

    "Also, are we talking about a first approach (as in the bar example) or those first floundering steps towards a potential relationship (as in most other text)?"

    In my experience these two things aren't necessarily (or even frequently) distinct. I don't really approach girls (in bars or elsewhere) that I couldn't envision myself dating. I guess I don't understand your question.

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  14. In my experience, the courtship dance (or initial seduction) is very much a dynamic process. Yes, as a man, I will do the first explicit MOVE in a vast majority of situations but I need some reassurance from the girl that she'd be at least remotely pleased to be on the receiving end of one."

    This is a valid point, and one I probably should have at least mentioned. I agree with you - the situation isn't always so clear cut as "Man approaches, woman accepts or rejects." However, it is almost never so murky that the initiative is indiscernable from the acceptance/rejection either. In other words, whatever back and forth there is, someone always is putting themselves out there more than the other. I attempted to illustrate the principle using very black and white examples because they are the best tools for doing so - and often in my experience it has occurred that way. Most of the time actually.

    Maybe I'll edit the post to include a senstence or two explaining the shades of grey. That said, I think the principl(however it is illustrated or manifests itself in real life) holds true in almost any situation. And should be followed.

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  15. Rules,

    You seem to be advocating a world in which women would ignore, or do their best to appear to ignore, any and all men who might be interested in them until one of those men makes that cold approach. You also seem to think that men should HAVE to make cold approaches, and should have no idea which woman is likely to respond favorably until actually approached.

    It may be that creating and maintaining this uncertainty may benefit some women, but there will be those who will take it to an unacceptable and unattractive level.

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  16. You are too cynical about men's intentions, and you are advising women to cynically save time by forcing men to waste their own time by approaching women whose own intentions are veiled.

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  17. I don't really approach girls (in bars or elsewhere) that I couldn't envision myself dating. I guess I don't understand your question.

    -- How could you look at a girl in a bar and envision dating her when you haven't even spoken to her?

    I've read quite a few pages on here now and my conclusion is that you are a misogynist. Women are just objects to you, always pathetic, only valid if they are beautiful. You never mention personality. That is always incidental.

    Anyone woman that seriously follows your advice and ends up with a guy will soon find out that they're an asshole.

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  18. "How could you look at a girl in a bar and envision dating her when you haven't even spoken to her?"

    I just meant that some girls are not even potential dates (i.e. I wouldn't foresee myself dating them) because they aren't presenting themselves well, and therefore aren't attractive.

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  19. So its rare that a guy will find a girl attractive both personality and looks wise?

    Mannnn, your making us men look bad.

    And women (atleast in my experience) can make contact by sending out texts, asking how we're doing, initiating a conversaition. As long as its done in a flirtacious way Im all for it (as a man). Feminine confidence for the win!

    Runder

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  20. "There is a danger of losing a guy like this by putting up too many hurdles and discouraging him"

    Any plans for a post on the hard to get subject? What constitutes too many hurdles? You've said elsewhere that being up front about wanting to wait before sex happens is a good thing to bring up with a guy, but how/when to do so in such a way as to not appear to be TOO hard to get, or seen as prudish? Other examples of 'good' hard to get behaviour and 'not so good' hard to get behaviour?

    And this may belong with another subject/post (what attracts men (not including appearance) ?), but I've recently come across the "don't be too predictable" issue. How does one come across as unpredictable, but in a way that doesn't say 'batsh*t crazy' unpredictable? What does 'exciting/attractive unpredictable' look/sound like?

    Cassandra

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  21. I need to add something about shy men: I think what you wrote will have many guys upset, as I know plenty of (young) guys whom are not very confident and prefers a situation where women approaches them. I agree though, at least personally, confidence and masculinity in a man is crucial.

    But I think many women think differently about shy men. As the one who wrote here, even if she had initiated and they would have ended up a a couple, he would still not have enough confidence to approach women. But what does she care, they're together? A lot of women may feel that they've found a "jewel", a great guy who just doesn't know his own value and therefore didn't up as an alpha sleeping around. You've got him, so what does his dating technique matter? That obviously goes for women who don't need to be "swept off their feet".

    I recently had a bad experience initiating contact. The only time I do it is when I consider the guy a friend or I don't care so much how he sees me. I was recently visiting another city and there was a guy I met there a few months ago, he texted me many times since and asked me to let him know if i was in town. I did and he invited me to a party. Problem is he was ALL OVER ME. He told me himself he was surprised to hear from me (I can add that his friends had a bit of a "what is someone like her doing with you? - attitude), and clearly he saw my facebook-messaging him as a sign of HUGE interest, even though the message was quite neutral and not really flirty. He was insulted and surprised when I didn't want to kiss him, and the evening ended badly. Which adds another reason not to initiate contact with a guy: they always get the wrong idea.

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  22. There are too many men now a days giving away their masculinity. There was a time when a men did not want their manhood put into question. I can accommodate to a certain extent that it is 2012 and I have been forced to live as a woman who is independent, but I find a man who is willing to wait for my phone calls and texts unappealing. I need a strong minded confident man because that is my natural desire for a man. I keep the rule simple, if I approach (which is rare) there is something so irresistible then I will initiate the contact. If he approaches then he has to initiate the contact. I just want to stay in the woman lane and be a woman and a man be a man.

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  23. Replies
    1. The post mentions something about female approachability: "High value women are approached by men, and with high frequently.".

      I want to ask, is it always the high value women whom are approached the most? I remember reading an article in a newspaper, one of those where you ask a psychologist about your situation. And the girl writing said her friend was approached by men "on every street corner" and she felt a lot less attractive etc. And the specialist said that a woman being approached that much doesn't mean she'll be accordingly attractive (although she won't be ugly). It takes a lot for a man to approach a woman, so this means she'll be very approachable in her body language, manners, clothing etc.

      Personally, I get attention from men in daily life, but I rarely have the grocery shop man ask for my phone number, even if he is flirtatious. I actually prefer it this way - I won't give my number in a venue like that. However in bars, men come over for a chat. I want to be approachable to the extent that a nice guy won't see me as cold or uptight, but I don't want to be so "open" that guys flood around all the time. IMO, it is not a matter of quantity of approaches - you want to get attention, but if there is a selection of the men that hit on you, that is a good thing, I think. The women who gets ALL sorts of men approaching them, usually indicates that they send out some very promiscuous signals. Maybe only women feel that way? :-) Or do guys think a woman should be as approachable as possible?

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    2. "I want to ask, is it always the high value women whom are approached the most?"

      Not necessarily. The hotter a girl is, the harder it is for a guy to approach her. So in a sense, she gets approached less. That being said, if a guy is stunned by her beauty, she probably isn't considered the hottest thing ever by ALL men, so she probably gets approached frequently by them.

      In general, I think women get approached more in proportion to how attractive they are, but there might be this phenomenon as well, whereby the hottest women (9s and 10s) actually get approached a little less than the attractive women (7s and 8s).

      "Or do guys think a woman should be as approachable as possible?"

      I think you are doing it right. Be approachable, polite, friendly, etc. but don't be a slut about it. The only way you will give off the "slut" aura you are talking about is if you actively pursue men (though this could just be through heavy eye contact, s suggestive smile, etc.).

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  24. I have a question about this sentence: "i.e. no overwhelmed by her beauty so much that he doesn't consider her personality". Does that happen?
    I have been out with men who seems to gaze into my eyes or look at my boobs when I'm talking or think that everything I say is "so cute" (even if I'm talking about politics). If you are much more attractive than a man, is there are risk that he basically does not see your personality, or doesn't care to get to know you? I assume it depends on the guy's agenda too (whether he's looking for a relationship altogether).
    As you know, men's attractiveness are made up by so many things. I've gone out with guys who are less attractive than me physically (guys/girls will tell me I'm a 8.5-9, and friends have told me they saw the guy I was seeing as a 4 to them), but there are other things to them which makes them more attractive. Some of them in most girls' view, I think. If a guy is not physically attractive, a little short, but with a good job, rich, a wide social circle and is very charismatic, shouldn't that make him 'closer' to me on the 10 rate-scale? Or is it important to go out with men whom are physically attractive? Sometimes it seems even rich men very much notice the difference between us in terms of looks, whereas I would think "isn't his options with women good anyway?".

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    1. Initially, men can definitely be "fooled" into attraction by a woman's beauty. We will sometimes fool ourselves into thinking a beautiful women has a good personality because we are so physically attracted to her - in the same way that I believe some women fool themselves into believing powerful men are more physically attractive than they really are.

      This effect wears off with age and experience, however.

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  25. I've heard guys says that they find shy girls a total turn-off. I suppose that is a preference for some, but do you think it is the case for most guys?
    I've also witnessed some guys say that they like sassy, forward women to approach them. I don't approach men in bars or anything (I could if I wanted to, in venues like that I'm not shy), but I want them to approach me. IMO, if a guy says he prefers women to approach, I think he's a) shy, b) has few options and is sick of approaching girls. What do you think? Is it legitimate for a guy to expect girls to approach?

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  26. "I've heard guys says that they find shy girls a total turn-off. I suppose that is a preference for some, but do you think it is the case for most guys?"

    It really depends. There isn't enough of a trend one way or the other to really generalize and say what most men like when it comes to shyness in women.

    "if a guy says he prefers women to approach, I think he's a) shy, b) has few options and is sick of approaching girls. What do you think? Is it legitimate for a guy to expect girls to approach?"

    I agree completely. I don't think men can ever practically expect women to approach, even if they have their own opinions about what women should or should not do.

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  27. I have read this post many times and agree with it a lot!
    My problem is: In "dating-scene" situations, I get approached by men, but mostly, the men I want to approach me usually don't. And although a lot of guys look at me, few actually takes the initiative in daily life (in class). As with most women, the amount of guys I see that I actually like the look of and are genuinely interested in, are extremely few.
    I'm 21, tall and blonde, and get quite a bit attention from men. I used to be a model for both makeup and underwear, and although I have my hang-ups like most women, I'm fairly confident I'm placed high up on the scale attractiveness-wise. Of course there will be men who don't find me attractive, but I think I can have a type of appearance which appeals to a large amount of men. I'm a little shy, but I think that's not necessarily such a bad thing, as I've heard men complain that hot women can be up themselves or arrogant. Unless my shyness can be interpreted as arrogance, I suppose that's a risk? I'm not a typical "easy-going" person, I can appear a bit cold and I've had people tell me before that I am difficult to talk to.
    In a bar in the evening, I'm approached quite a bit. Yet the majority will be not for me (too old, drunk, or uninteresting - and I go to quite upscale places).
    I have spotted a cute guy at school (I'm in uni), we have a couple of classes together, he sits with his friends on the opposite side of the room, I've never spoken to him. Our first class together I caught him looking at me twice, just staring a bit, we were only 8 people in class. I was hoping he was checking me out, but wasn't sure. I find him good-looking, he is no Brad Pitt, but I'm sure other girls could be into him. He is kind of a quiet guy in class but I think his mates are quite alpha types.
    I've seen him in the IT room also, there have been occasions where he would have had the opportunity to talk to me if he wanted to. So perhaps I'm giving it up :-(
    But I'm still wondering if I can spot the problem - if he just doesn't find me attractive, there is nothing I can do about that (I take well care of myself, so cannot 'optimize' my attractiveness much more. Although I had just had a blow-dry first time he looked at me and my hair was looking great, so perhaps I'll repeat that). But how do I know if a guy doesn't approach me because I'm not attractive to him, or if I'm not approachable enough? How do you know if you're not approachable?

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  28. "But how do I know if a guy doesn't approach me because I'm not attractive to him, or if I'm not approachable enough? How do you know if you're not approachable?"

    It is more or less impossible to know. This is the equivalent of the male question "how do I know if she rejected my approach because I am not attractive enough or because I didn't approach her confidently/casually/quickly/wittily/naturally/etc. enough?"

    Instead of trying to decipher his intentions or instigate an approach, you need to become comfortable with the idea that not every man is interested, in the same way that men need to become comfortable with the idea that they can't attract every woman they approach. Both sexes need to be comfortable with "rejection."

    Fixing your hair the way you did when he noticed you the first time is a good bet. Ask other male friends for their opinion of your hair next time too - just as a cross-check; I wouldn't be surprised if you get really good feedback though. It is perfectly possible to draw more attention only from changing your hair. That being said, you can invite his approach by giving him eye contact (first) and then putting yourself nearer to him (second), by sitting closer to him or walking out of the room at the same time, etc.

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  29. Thanks for reply.
    I read your post on 'rejection' and think it is wise. I've never really had a 'rejection' in the sense of a break-up or a guy cutting off the dating, but since men are expected to make the first move, I suppose them NOT doing it is the male version of rejection. I have female friends who move from boyfriend to boyfriend and consistently go out with guy who are beneath them (who also behave badly), and if that is the alternative, I'd rather not.
    Do you think guys are more passive in classroom situations? I mean I suppose most girls get more attention on nights out since those are the venues you go to actively meet people. But I also seem to get more approaches from guys outside of school, whether it'd be a dinner party or whatever. I know some girls meet their boyfriends at uni, I'm just not sure if they actually get talking at school or just agree to meet on nights out. (I can add I'm not American and we don't have that 'college' experience where people live in dorms - you go to school and attend your lectures, then go home).

    Also - a friend told me that guys whom are 21 are a bad bet. Some of them have girlfriends they have had since 18 and have had no reason to break up. Those who are single intend to stay that way, as they see their early twenties as a time they'd like to have fun. Do you agree with this?

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  30. "Do you think guys are more passive in classroom situations?"

    Yes, definitely. Mostly it has to do with there being no alcohol to help remove the nerves involved in approaching an attractive woman. However, it is also partially because it is more acceptable to approach a stranger at a bar, where people aren't in a hurry to go somewhere and it is less of a violation of their personal space and time.

    "Those who are single intend to stay that way, as they see their early twenties as a time they'd like to have fun. Do you agree with this?"

    Definitely. Not all guys think this way but I think it is safe to say that most do.

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  31. Damn, after reading your blog I have learned exactly how I have done all the big ol no-no's and still survived to tell the tale! Had mostly guy friends, drank too much, wore slutty clothes, swore a lot (note all the past tense) but then somehow, with my big hoop earrings I managed to meet the most amazing shy guy who is totally someone I think is hotter than me but doesn't know it, and voila, he was awesome enough for me to quit drinking, quit smoking, I still swear like a trooper though and I find (also from reading your blog) that my dress sense and style have always been cute (what with the non matching undies and the fact that high heels kill my feet! I only wear them on special occasions, but do have a whole collection!) and I am happy as all hell! Married, 2 kids and still getting laid more than 3 times a week...can't complain! The shy one needed me to approach, but I did need him to show he had interest...what he said to me after we started dating was, "Damn, I am SO glad you kissed me that one night, I so wanted to do that but didn't think you'd be into me" So maybe he is a rarity amongst men, but he's awesome, hot, shy...but also funny, confident and sexy...and he married a loud, drunken (former) gal with big hoop earrings and a side of crazy. Jesus, how lucky am I!

    ReplyDelete
  32. I agree with this to a certain extent, although I think that a lot of woman think that it is ok for them to exert practically no effort at all and expect the man to do all of the work. When a woman doesn't seem to be all that invested in me, I start to question whether she even likes me and am more likely to give up and assume she isn't very interested in me. Maybe it is just me, but I personally prefer it when a woman exerts some effort so that I know I am not wasting my time and money.

    ReplyDelete
  33. How long into dating do you think a woman should wait for the man to text/call first? Until they are practically exclusive? You think as long as his facebook status says "single", he should be the one to be in touch?

    I've wondered about this a few times, because I usually wait for the guy and am often unsure if he is waiting for me to say something once in a while...I'm not a very extroverted person and although sleeping with him should give him the right clue (and I am very affectionate when we ARE intimate), I am not one who 'carries my heart on my sleeve' and I think men can sometimes be unsure of how I feel. I suppose I could be more verbal and compliment him etc., but actions speak louder than words, and in the same way men's actions are more important than their words, aren't women's too? If a guy is texting every day for two weeks, is it appropriate for me to send a text saying 'how are you?'. Or should I still wait?

    ReplyDelete
  34. Wow. This post is kind of ridiculous. You're talking about one type of men amongst many, but saying ALL men are like this? Sure, all men are into casual sex, but unless the men have insecurity issues, commitment issues, they also want a relationship and stability too.

    There is nothing fulfilling about one-night stands and casual sex in the LONG RUN. (And this is what I mean about catering to one group of guys only... the kind who just want to have fun and screw around are in-between relationships and to some level, fear commitment for their own reasons).

    The only downside to a woman approaching a man is possible rejection (which is going to happen one way or another in ones life anyway.)

    The only way a man will think you're a slut for approaching is if you act slutty in your approach, attitude, body language etc. All things you can control. As long as you're not giving off the slutty vibe, he won't think you're a slut.

    Sure, he may still want to have sex with you, but that is only a bad thing if you allow the guy to ONLY use you for sex. Just use some common sense, and let the guy know what you want and set your boundaries.

    Once you do this, then his true intentions will come out and you won't need to waste your time.

    I say be approachable but be willing to approach as well if a guy catches your eye (as a lot of people have said already, 50% of guys most likely WON'T approach even if they like you).

    Use common sense! Get to know a guy a little first before deciding you want to sleep with him, have a relationship etc. The approach is just to find out more about him, it doesn't mean you're going to chase this guy to the ends of the earth. If you do want to date him but he isn't interested, you will know, and then, it's about being ok with rejection.

    Just don't confuse sleeping with a guy with him being interested.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Do you think the woman should wait for him to the first step only or the 'next' step also?
    I wonder how you feel about the following "initiatives"?
    - Calling/texting just 'to have a chat' (as in writing to ask how their day has been)
    - Bringing up commitment /where you stand /exclusivity

    I'm referring to situations where you have been going out for some time, have had sleepovers etc. The last guys I've dated have willingly initiated every date and pretty much all the contact in between, but seem to miss me writing or texting once in a while to ask what's up.
    Also, since you say 'men get away with what you let them', I assume women should be the initiative part on the "where is this going" subject?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Calling and texting just to have a chat is appropriate after you've gotten to the point in a relationship where you know it is appreciated by the man. Before that point, I'd avoid this.

      Bringing up commitment and where you stand is something that (as you suggest) often falls on the woman's shoulders, and yes, in those cases, the girl does need to initiate. However, this is not always the case. I have dated a couple girls that I had to follow my own advice with. They didn't seem that into the relationship, so I confronted them, asking whether or not they thought it was worth their time, because if they weren't interested, I didn't want to waste my time. It was effective.

      The strategy of not intiating is one that is the burden of the "underdog" - the person more interested in the relationship. This is usually the woman, but if it is the man, then he needs to follow the same rules I've prescribed here.

      Delete
    2. So I have been seeing someone for 2 months, I am away from him at the moment. We've had sex, I've let him initiate all the way. He still contacts me often, and sometimes 'just to chat'.
      He's asked to see me a few times now - I've held it off as I'm traveling and have exams. Last time he asked to come with me when I said I would be visiting family in my home country (almost as if he would like to meet my family?). I told him I'd be available 'mid-July', which he accepted, but I feel like I've been on the rejecting side a few times now.

      I'm trying to get an "opening" in the beginning of June to try and see him. Since he's indicated he wants to see me a few times now and I've been the one to reject, I feel like it's on my shoulders to let him now when I'm free? Is it then okay for me to text him once tomorrow or the day after and say when I'm free and so on? Could be he likes to chase a girl but at the same time could be he thinks I'm being very unavailable and I actually likes him a lot and don't want to lose him.

      Delete
    3. Yeah, I would say it's your turn. After a girl rejects me a couple times I usually give up. Your situation - rejecting a guy a few times but still really wanting to see him - is rare. Normally he would be right to interpret that as dismissal. Give him a call and ask him when you can hang out now that your schedule is clear. After initiating once or twice though, back off and let him initiate.

      Delete
    4. I wouldn't say I actually 'rejected' him. I told him I miss him and want to see him, but it may seem like I didn't make time for him. He has previously indicated that he thinks I'm slightly out of his league or that he's "very lucky". Is it possible - seen in the light of that - that he has taken me being 'busy' as a rejection?
      I texted him suggesting to see him sooner 4 days ago, and have no reply. He's away on holiday, but still.. He's made updates on fb through his phone. It feels like he's ignoring me. He has done something similar before when he was upset with me, so I know he's the type for it.
      I suppose I have no other option than to keep wait for his reply and take it from there? It's really gone past the stage where I doubt his interest in me, now I think he's just being difficult. Argh men :/

      Delete
    5. "Is it possible - seen in the light of that - that he has taken me being 'busy' as a rejection?"

      Yes, in fact I would say it is probable. Though now that you have opened the doo by sueggesting that you hang out sooner, he has to walk through it.

      Delete
    6. I haven't physically seen him since April (not his fault though). He usually contacts me every 2 or 3 days. My last conversation with him was 8 days ago, when he seemed very keen and still infatuated. The message I sent him was 5 days ago, to no response. I know he's away, but I think I should have had a response. Is it possible he went off me and met someone else in that 3 day gap? Is it serious reason to worry?
      It is a complete mystery to me. If I do not get a response, how long should I wait until I contact him again, going "so I guess we're over?"?. What do you consider reasonable time or a girl to react? (Keep in mind we didn't just have a couple of dates, I thought he was crazy about me until now!).

      Delete
    7. Advice? Is total 7 days of no response reasonable to wait before I call and try and find out what the hell happened? I want to know, because although I can often spot a player, I am seriously not getting this.

      Delete
    8. Yes. though I'd say 7 is the minimum.

      Delete
  36. Btw, what do you consider a 'late response' when it comes to texts?
    And say you've waited LONG for a reply from a guy. How do you suggest a girl should reply? Cheerful and normal, or let him know somehow?
    This is practically one of the only times I've initiated contact with this guy, he has every time for 3 months. He seems really into me and have been super keen. I texted him 28 hours ago, and no reply. I know he's away on holiday, but how long should it take to look at your phone? It's possible he's upset with me for not making time for him. If he acts normal when he DOES get back to me, what do you suggest my response should be?
    A lot of these things are 'smaller issues' in a guy's mind and if you react to them, you become a naggy girl. I know he already thinks of me as a bit oversensitive.

    ReplyDelete
  37. I have a guy friend who gives me mixed signals. We go out and eat one on one. I must admit that we have been intimate and I did form an attachment to him. But now I feel that I am detaching. I was separated from my husband when my guy friend and I got intimate. I wanted to give my marriage a second chance but it eventually didn't work out. At the time, I cut contact with my guy friend. Now that I am almost divorced, I have been seeing my guy friend on a platonic basis.

    He always asks me about my dating situation and if I am seeing someone or if my divorce has been finalized. What does this all mean? Is he just being curious or is he fishing? I'm a little confused about the situation.

    I have distanced myself somewhat and I feel that he is missing my attention and is now initiating more. Does this mean he is interested in having a relationship or testing the waters? I am all new to the dating game. My ex husband was my first boyfriend.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I would encourage you to get on with your life and not worry about "platonic friend". If he wants a relationship with you, he will pursue you. How about you focus on your happiness post a divorce. What are your goals? How are you putting your life together. Your friend will only enjoy you more if you are happier and living your life to the fullest.

      Delete
    2. >> I was separated from my husband when my guy friend and I got intimate. I wanted to give my marriage a second chance but it eventually didn't work out. At the time, I cut contact with my guy friend.


      What you know about your own feelings about your married life is irrelevant. To your guy friend, it looks like you cheated on your legal husband, then dropped guy-friend when you thought that a better guy might become re-available. You literally pumped-and-dumped your guy-friend.

      In his mind, why would be in the category of a "nice girl"?

      Delete
  38. I agree with a lot of things in this article, and I'm all for men learning to take the initiative, but if this is advice for WOMEN, I think there are a couple of other things that should be made claer.

    First of all, who benefits from women following this advice? the ONLY people I see who would benefit from women following this advice are men who are able or willing to approach women. And ability to initiate contact is not necessarily co-related with 'romantic compatibility'

    Second of all, this statement is misleading: "A man might make eye contact with you from across the bar, but unless he overcomes his fear or leaves his buddies in order to approach you, he isn't into you enough."

    Actually, the opposite may be true. Most men I know find it easier to approach women he is LESS interested in because he is less bothered by the possibility of rejection.

    Just because a guy approaches you doesn't mean that he's into you.

    ReplyDelete
  39. I've had so many arguments with male and female friends over this. I'm a firm believer in making a guy initiate - men go for what they want, most of the time anyway. Guys keep telling me they love girls who initiate contact, girls say they've had success doing it. Some say that a guy initiating contact may still mean he only wants sex.
    My experience is that if a girl initiates contact, she's sending the wrong signals. I only ever contact men I consider friends, not men I am interested in. One time I actually texted a guy to meet up as he was the only one I knew in a city I was visiting. It was a disaster - he believed I was REALLY interested, and made a move 5 minutes into the 'date'. I've never sent promiscuous signals through behavior or the way I dress, so I was shocked by how forward a guy could be with me.

    You slightly mentioned it:
    "Someone who will actually agree to a relationship or even marriage, only to change his mind months or years later when he realizes he wants someone he considers better"
    Meaning that guys take what is given to them easily. Maybe it's worth adding something more on this issue - how men agree to a date if it's easy for them, even if they're not genuinely into the girl. I'm sure you could articulate it better than me :)

    ReplyDelete
  40. I (a woman) also never initiate contact- fear of sending wrong signals, etc. - Will only occisionally contact "men I consider friends, not men I am interested in."

    Although soft spoken, polite, attentive is always preferred, I suppose I don't want to deal with a "shy" person who needs me to validate his "attractiveness."
    Too much pressure. Makes me feel like he needs a mother, and even though it can seem somewhat endearing, I am also wary that he might be "playing possum"; a fairly sophisticated ploy to elicit my sympathy, in an effort to judge my emotional nature. (Assuming - incorrectly - that the more emotional woman is easier to manipulate.)

    I don't judge whether a man's interest in me is due to his need of the moment (purely sexual) or if he's seriously interested in a relationship until he displays the tells which signal to me what I need to know and how to respond - because, often he is not even aware of his motivation.

    Whish it were not so convoluted. But that's my take. :-)

    ReplyDelete
  41. Hello,

    Though some of your post may seem unfair there is a lot of truth to them. Can you please explain your disclaimer a bit furher? Also, what are your thoughts on accepting a man's friend request on FB after say 5 dates? Thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I just mean that you need to be careful because even if you make a man "work for it," he might be willing to do so just for the sex. So the hotter a girl is, the more she needs to do this in order to filter out the guys that just want to get laid.

      But then on the other hand, she has to balance putting up too few hurdles with putting up too many, because there is an upper limit as well: if you make it TOO difficult for a guy to get you, some genuine guys who aren't as determined might give up as well.

      Delete
  42. I'm currently in a situation where I feel like I might have to be the one to initiate. Brace yourself for this little tale...

    A couple months back I moved, temporarily, to a new city for a job. I became pretty friendly with one of my coworkers, but that's all it was. I then also made a friend in the city who seemed pretty eager to be in a relationship, so I told her I had the perfect guy for her. My coworker. After telling each party all about the other for the longest time, they became more and more interested, but their schedules never matched so they hadn't met yet (only seen pictures). Meanwhile, after working side by side with this guy for weeks, the thought of something more than a friendship never crossed my mind until for some bizarre reason, everyone at work started teasing us that we liked each other (yeah, they're all like 12 years old). It wasn't until then that I paused to think about it. There I was trying to set him up with my new friend when he'd really be pretty perfect for me. All the selling points I'd used to get her on board (gentleman, nice, thoughtful, etc) were qualities I'm looking for.

    At this point their first meeting was around the corner, and I thought it would be too selfish of me to come up with something to cancel it (especially since it had been two months in the making by now) so I just played down my emotions as a silly little crush, especially since I was gonna be leaving the city in four months whereas they actually lived there and could make it work. But their meeting was so brief that they barely got to speak to each other.

    To cut a long story shorter -- because I see I'm rambling now -- they still haven't had the chance to properly meet because of their schedules (fate? haha) though it's clear that they want to, I have continued to develop feeling for this guy and now I have no idea if he's interested or not. My coworkers have continued to tease us like the professional adults that they are (perhaps he said something to someone that made them believe there's something going on?), even the friend I'm trying to link up with him thinks he likes me (because he's a gentleman toward me and she thinks I'm way to attractive for him not to -- I personally think I'm just alright), and to be fair he does refer to me as "my darling" sometimes and says all these sweet things, which really throws me off because he also asks me about my friend -_-.

    What advice can you give me -- aside from never try to play matchmaker again -- in this situation for gauging his level of interest? Do I have to be the one to initiate since he probably thinks I'm not interested since I've been trying to set him up with my friend? And if yes, how would you suggest I do so? And then there's running the risk of looking like a bitch for trying to nab my friend's could-be man. Man this situation sucks.

    P.S. Excuse the essay. I guess I have a lot on my mind :/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'd let the meeting with your friend run its natural course (and yes, don't play matchmaker again - or scope the dude out for yourself first if you do) before you do anything at all. Stop facilitating it. Let them arrange the meet-up, etc.

      IF they hit it off, that's justbad luck for you. If they don't though, then yes, you would need to initiate because he probably assumes that you aren't interested. However, don't initiate by asking him out or professing your love or crush whatever - do it by flirting. Gradually escalate how much physical contact you have with him, eye contact, etc. - again, gradually but surely. He will get the idea. If he reciprocates, great. If not, then you have to back of and accept that he isn't interested.

      Delete
  43. I actually disagree on this one. Do you really want to screen out men who are "too shy" to approach? Yes, you need to screen out men who are timid and and screen out men not that into you. The fact of a man not approaching is absolutely not evidence that he is not interested. There can be dozens of reasons why he does not approach. Maybe he considers it impolite to leave his friends, maybe he is tired and not in the mood to take chances, maybe he was harshly rejected on a recent approach and is nursing his wounds. There are just way too many variables to try and read into a lack of approach.

    Does approaching mean you have to take the lead every step of the way, initiating a date, initiating physical contact, initiating sex? Absolutely not. But obsessing over who makes the first move is just silly. It's probably the least important thing that ever happens in a healthy relationship.

    ReplyDelete
  44. (also just in case it wasn't clear, I do agree that if you are a woman initiating more often than not, you're almost certainly wasting energy on a man who is not into you. I also agree that women can't be expected to approach indiscriminately. But as a hard rule, I do think it's a bad one.)

    ReplyDelete
  45. What about 'last minute plans'?
    I just read a part of "Why Men Love Bitches" and it says:
    "A woman who believes she is not enough does the following: She is on call for last minute plans".
    I don't think they're referring to 2am texts for sex, I think they're referring to any kind of meeting up. I've heard people talk about this before as well.

    The last guy I dated, worked a LOT, he was an MBA student with his own company and would often work till late at night. He'd occasionally meet friends or go to the gym, but most of his spare time was spent with me. Sometimes I'd get a text/call rather late and I didn't want to jump out of the couch and rush to his place in 20 mins, simply for the reason above (at the time we were dating I had just finished school and had a lot more spare time on my hands). But if I would on principle refuse to see him the same evening, it would make it difficult for us to meet up at all. I never initiate contact, and even when we'd been going out and seeing each other every day for a couple of months, I never called or texted first. If I was unavailable when he DID contact me, as I sometimes was, I feel like it comes off as uninterested?

    I'm not dating this guy anymore, so it's more for future reference. Should women refuse last minute plans?

    ReplyDelete
  46. Hello there, I read your post about completely cutting off a guy who dumped you and I have a question about that.
    I try to do the "cutting-off" thing but obviously he won't let me.
    When he sees I don't call or text him, he texts me or calls me to know what's up. He asks me what I'm doing, sometimes he asks me to do something togheter and all that. It's really confusing 'cause there are times I don't answer but usually I do (not right away but I do).. Then HE doesn't answer for a long time and I get frustrated so I re-initiate contact...
    What do I do: Not answering ever again? Or telling him I've had enough and asking him to leave me alone?
    The problem is: I'm afraid I'm needing his presence but I'm willing to do whatever is best for me and my health :D

    Maybe I'm not explaining wel but anyway excuse my english, I'm french speaking.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Hello there, I read your post about completely cutting off a guy who dumped you and I have a question about that.
    I try to do the "cutting-off" thing but obviously he won't let me.
    When he sees I don't call or text him, he texts me or calls me to know what's up. He asks me what I'm doing, sometimes he asks me to do something togheter and all that. It's really confusing 'cause there are times I don't answer but usually I do (not right away but I do).. Then HE doesn't answer for a long time and I get frustrated so I re-initiate contact...
    What do I do: Not answering ever again? Or telling him I've had enough and asking him to leave me alone?
    The problem is: I'm afraid I'm needing his presence but I'm willing to do whatever is best for me and my health :D

    Maybe I'm not explaining wel but anyway excuse my english, I'm french speaking.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Your question makes sense. I think you should tell him "I need to move on and I can't do that when we are constantly communicating. I would appreciate it if you would stop calling/texting me, but if you do, I won't be answering any more."

      You don't owe it to him to answer. If he wanted to stay in touch with you, he shouldn't have ended the relationship. Don't let him "have his cake and eat it too."

      Delete
  48. Does a girl's reply pattern affect your initiatives?
    I sometimes takes some time to reply a text. Not horribly long, but I might take some time figuring out what to say, sometimes I just leave it for a bit if I'm busy with something else.
    Do guys think about this? Like "she took two hours to reply, maybe I shouldn't reply right away".
    Should I take into consideration how long he takes in determining his interest? Or does it not matter, as long as he does?
    I never initiate btw.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, men think about it a lot. Maybe less than girls, but I can't count the number of times my guy friends either complain about or be confused by how long a girl takes to reply.

      I will write a post about how you should text a guy.

      Delete
    2. "I will write a post about how you should text a guy."

      Great!

      I'm always sweet and if he mentioned something we talked about when we were together I sort of follow up on that. But I don't always write a direct question in my reply. A friend said "shouldn't you ask him something back to keep the conversation going?".
      But I don't like "text conversations". And I figure that even if my text doesn't ask for his reply, he'll still contact me if he wants to meet up again. After all - he did get a reply.
      Would be great if you could mention this in the post.

      Delete
    3. "I will write a post about how you should text a guy."

      Where is this post? :-)

      Delete
    4. It's drafted, along with a number of others. I'll post it eventually. Keep asking me.

      Delete
  49. What about if he sends the first and last text? You reply friendly to every text, but you stop at some point because the conversation can't go for days (given that his last text didn't ask a question).
    Am I suppose to send the next one anyway or wait for him to text me again?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I would definitely like to here a guys perspective on this issue. A similar scenario were this guy and I would text often, and I respond in kindness , never being rude always friendly. waiting for him to initiate things. we chat for hours about most topics and even if days go by, he'd re-initiate contact by saying he really miSsed our chats. Honestly though, I'm getting really put off to say the least because I know he's interested by the frequency and genuine interest he takes in getting to know me, but I've gotta wait till when?(Oh he lives in another city and comes often,not to mention he is two years younger than I am)

      Delete
  50. If a man is in touch, but doesn't initiate meeting up, should I just reply and play along and wait?
    He wanted my number, texts me often (long texts), but he hasn't written anything about meeting up again. He has told someone else he finds me "hot" and a "cool girl" so I know he doesn't just consider me a friend. So just...wait?

    ReplyDelete
  51. So if it happens that you DO sleep with a guy on the first date..I mean, upon the first meeting. I met a guy, and at the time I wasn't looking for anything serious. I just needed, for the first time in my life, to enjoy one night with a guy I liked.
    We hung out the next day and (surprise surprise) got along great. He wanted my number and has been texting me a lot. He asked me out on a proper dinner date and we had it tonight. He behaved very gentlemanly and didn't even make a proper move.

    Which makes me confused. I can add that he's European (we're both, from a liberal background) where it's "normal" for people to hook up and then become a couple. All the same, I read advice as given on this blog and I don't know what to assume or do at this point.

    I know it's not "advice" but can you give any general advice when a guy initiates dating after an ons?

    ReplyDelete
  52. Do we really have to play all these games? Really? Read these posts and hear all of the trickery and dishonesty.Really!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not initiating contact is not a game; a woman isn't deceiving a man by letting him initiate, she is simply putting up a filter that let's her understand who really likes her and who doesn't. On rare occasions that filter will let in guys who actually don't like her and sometimes it will keep out men who actually do like her; but overall she will be better of having it than not.

      Delete
  53. Yes, really Anon: if you want a meaningful relationship you do have to 'play the games' as you put it. Each gender has its own 'rules of engagement' that they, like it or not, will espouse in their interactions with the opposite sex. It's the whole Mars vs. Venus thing. However if you are just looking to get laid, have some mindless fun with Mr/Ms Wrong you can do whatever the hell you want.

    It's SO refreshing to see a man publicly admitting that women should not be the initiators, as in my experience men refuse to start a conversation because aggressive new-age women have them trained that they don't have to anymore. I should add that I'm not in my twenties, and men in my age range (40 - 50) don't possess the vigor and motivation that the men this blog pertains to might. Though this blog may not have relevance to my particular situation it's still helpful and informative.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Do you think how likely people are to follow this "rule" varies with their background? Because it seems to me that for a lot of people, it is common for a woman to text a guy, and men are used to this.
    The greatest difference IMO is the "well into the relationship". Most girls I know will wait for a guy to initiate on the first 3 dates or so, but text him first after that, if they've had a lot of phone/text conversations.

    Personally I follow the advice (I never text or call), even though most people in my social circle don't prescribe to these rules. I've had a lot of discussions with my female friends, to the point where I feel like I have to stop discussing guys with them altogether and act as if I don't need advice, simply because they insist I "send him a text once in a while so that he knows I'm into him too". One of my closest friends got irritated with me when I refused.
    I've noticed that some guys seem used to things going both ways. A guy I used to date sometimes pointed out that "it seems I am the only one making an effort for us to get together". I'm afraid the guy I'm dating now is thinking the same thing.
    I am European and thought there might be a difference, but my friend who's pushing me into texting first is in fact American.

    ReplyDelete
  55. This is only what the writer likes. I'm a guy, I'm 30. When I was 24 I sang at a karaoke night, b4 I was thru a girl had pulled me offstage and showed me one of the funnest nights of my life, even paying for all my drinks. I love when a girl comes after me, then I know she's interested cuz too many girls wanna play games and lie. Guys are simple, either we just wanna good time with u or we wanna be with u. We're not gonna use u to make someone jealous or cuz u have money, etc. I just wish we could all be honest, if I see a girl I'd like to get to know better, I'd love to be able to jus walk up to her, say that, then get an honest answer. If no I can just move on. I'm so glad I have a gf I love more than anything and that loves me too. There's nothin better than love.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Hi Andrew, I'd love some feedback.

    I'm 23 and there is a gal who is 28 I'm starting to like. I always approach her when I see her and recently at a party we flirted all night. However I forgot to get her number.

    We share many mutual friends on Facebook and I don't expect her to initiate. Do you think adding a girl on FB is a good idea or not? It could show my interest but it also is a "friend" request and I want more than that.

    Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  57. This sounds really, really sick! Women EXPECT men to approach or else? Maybe guys just need to wait a few years and hold out for women to approach them, women who no longer have time to play these games ( that you say are not games).

    ReplyDelete
  58. I'm a woman, and feel I am old enough to recognise that every meeting or encounter is different. How I feel and who they are. Mostly this article is all gross generalisation. Nothing like sucking the individuality out of someone by grouping the entire world into two ill-fitting parts. My motto is.."If I want something and am willing to accept the consequences of not getting it, then hey, at least I tried". In all aspects of my life.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Putting hurdles in front of men to prove their interest sounds like something every self respecting, quality Woman should do to make sure she is attracting quality men! Just be ready for a high caliber man to do the same thing to you to test your worth. From my experience women are naturals when it comes to putting up the hurdles (because they are taught that they are the prize) but when they themselves are confronted with a few hurdles to leap from their prospective MAN they usually say WTF--"That`s not the kind of man I am looking for" In effect they are unwilling and unable to pass the very tests that they put the men up to. The filter works both ways!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is an interesting comment. I am curious to know what your opinion is on this, Andrew. In your experiences, is it true that a high caliber man will put up hurdles the same way a woman should? If so, should women actively work to clear them or take it as a sign they are shooting above their league, because a man that really wants them wouldn't put up such obstacles?

      Delete
    2. I hate to think in terms of the league concept. I feel that some people are just more compatible with others, have what the other is looking for, more things in common, same intelligence level, education level, social economic status, you are their type, etc. However, I'm starting to get the impression that it is really the man's job to pursue. And women select as in they accept a man or reject him. But it is the man's role to pursue. He must want the woman badly enough to procreate with her, and be invested enough to help take care of the babies into adulthood. This is why women throwing themselves at men who do not feel this way about them is fruitless, because if the man does not value the woman enough, he will not invest his time, and make such sacrifices. To try to make a man do this who is not chasing after you, is fighting an unnecessary uphill battle that will most likely cost you dearly.

      This is kind of nice though because with women throwing themselves at men nowadays, if that were enough to allure men into wanting to commit to them then it would be even harder for women to find a guy who will commit. But this helps because a man will not just commit to any woman, no matter if many women are throwing themselves at him, or trying to steal him from you, if he has already invested in you, or decides to. There seems to be something sacred still left, and it probably keeps mother nature in order.

      Delete
    3. I don't think most men do this for women. The hurdle is her appearance and her personality, which isn't something she can "overcome" in the same way that a man would overcome a woman's resistance to prove his interest. Some men might have strict criteria for what they want from a woman (religion, traditional or progressive values, the desire for a certain number of children or wealth, etc.) and he might ask her questions about these things, but they aren't hurdles by which she can prove something; they are just questions about the way things are. So I think the short answer to your question is that no, most men don't put up hurdles that a woman needs to jump over to get a guy of a higher caliber.

      Delete
    4. "The hurdle is her appearance and personality" This may be the case in establishing attraction but once dating has begun in earnest--- tests or hurdles actually test that personality of hers for its authenticity and weakness. True character emerges under "stress" -- and the pleasant, sweet, nurturing, personality that attracted the man --may be proven to be an act(to varying degrees) , when pushed with a little " stress-Fire"

      Delete
  60. The hurdles that a man puts in front of a woman are much, much different than the female hurdles that women use to filter male pretenders from the real deal! While smart Women test men for dishonesty- ability to delay gratification, lack of confidence, emotional weakness, disloyalty, lack of clarity, no ambition, and insensitivity,-- The hurdles the self assured male puts in front of the female he is interested in test to detect-- insecurity, paranoia, excessive jealousy,
    excessive vanity, passive aggressive tendencies, and gas lighting-or-manipulative tendencies. The Man does not have to sit back and test from the passive position as most Women chose to do, he can pursue aggressively and if he is creative, he can actually test while passing the woman`s test. This works out great because oftentimes she is to busy responding to his chase and monitoring the results of her own tests to realize that she is even being tested at all. Which makes for more real responses. A lot of Men and Women love to proudly announce "I don`t put up with such games or such childish bullshit" --you test me and I am gone! --I hear it all the time. When it comes to who you are going to chose to spend your life with, since so many good people are not even consciously aware of their own shortcomings and weaknesses, I think testing is a healthy and wise choice for both sexes.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ms Anonymous - ( I assume that you are a female) - I would also assume that lots of women are into the kind of testing you describe.
      Maybe I was just not smart enough in trying to spend time with a woman
      to remember to give her all those tests.
      Sounds like lots and lots of fun!
      -Dave -

      Delete
  61. How if you tested a man that you liked by pretending that you didn't like him because you were worried he just wanted you only for sex. Then the test result was he was dissapointed, angry and left you so fast and never wanted to talk to you again, dissapeared. After you both had short good times in non sex things and kind of growing great friendship.

    So was that the truth that he only wanted you for sex ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It depends on how obvious your test was, if you went completely cold after being warm and open, then you compromised the integrity of your feelings just to test. All testing works best while administered slyly(all is fair in love and war) without drastically altering the escalation of feelings within the relationship!

      Delete
    2. Not cold after being warm and open but ignored him. Ignore same with cold ? I ignored him because I felt like he wanted me only for sex. He dissapointed and dissapeared. I did right thing, didn't I ? But I was sad because we kinda growing great friendship.

      Delete
    3. This is so passive aggressive. There are better ways of filtering than suddenly ignoring someone. That's completely sending the wrong message. Anyway, I think if a guy is after you for sex sometimes he doesn't care, and will keep trying because he cares so little he doesn't care if he gets rejected. Or sometimes they really don't care at all, and just move on to the next one.

      Delete
    4. The wrong message is he got message I didn't like him ? What are the betters ways of filtering than suddenly ignoring ? I was shocked with his reaction, out of my prediction because I thought he wouldn't feel angry and dissapointed with sex rejection. I thought he could get it from someone else and still in friendship with me if we couldn't be couple.

      Delete
  62. Is "liking" a guy's facebook photo initiating contact? If you've been dating a while, that is.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No, and I would say no even if you haven't been dating a while

      Delete
    2. I met this guy and he "likes" my hottest pics. We've hung out once and he talked to me the other day on facebook chat but hasn't asked me out again. I can't tell if he's shy or not. Should I initiate something or no.

      Delete
  63. What if your phone accidentally pocket dials them? Should you text them and apologize, or just leave it alone?

    ReplyDelete
  64. So let's say he asked you out on a casual date already, and it went pretty well. You like him and you're pretty sure he's into you. Is it okay (now that's already asked you out once) to invite him on a casual date? Perhaps a movie with some friends? OR do you wait for him to make another date?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I personally say you wait and let him initiate conversation. Andrew's blog has been a life saver for my dating life - and time and time again - his advice has rung true - especially about letting men plan/initiate in the early stages/well into the later stages. The boy contacting you for more dates clearly indicates his interest in you. If he is sporadic/flakey, it means you are simply a side dish or he has other priorities going on.

      Delete
  65. MY APOLOGIES FOR A LENGTHY POST, but I just don't think I can get a real answer without putting this ALL out here:

    I really have a thing for a guy from my church, but I didn't always have it. Before I noticed him, he used to try to talk to me and offer me rides home, which I rejected, so I felt like I needed to do something to show I'd changed my mind after rejecting him so much. So this' how I've acted since I 'changed my mind', so-to-speak...

    After about 6 months, I realized that I was no longer looking at him as just a brother, but something more and I was okay with it by that point, as I do want a Godly man and where else would I find one but at church?! It was also around this time that I realized he may also be attracted to me and may've been trying to talk to me, but I hadn't noticed. Eventually, we started talking more and more at church, then we became facebook "friends" (I looked him up and requested, but didn't think of it as "initiating" anything) and we'd chat there every once in a while. When my laptop went down, I accessed fb on my cell and sent him my phone number. About a week later, he called and we've been talking ever since. We started off talking about 2x-3x/wk and our conversations just flow; no lags or uncomfortable silences. Then, after 6 wks or so of this, we went to "lunch" (neither of us called it a "date") and after the date, I made a giant faux-pas; I asked if he could ever see me as more than a friend and that I was only asking so I'd know to "get off this train" if I needed to. He said we'd talk about it, but we haven't and I haven't brought it up again. So, since that Saturday, he seems to have taken a few steps back. He still seeks me out at church so we can talk and he had actually started calling me nightly now, but we'd gone from 30-45 min conversations to 12, 13 mins phone calls and I got the sense that it's more that he's touching home base to see if I'm still here than really wanting to talk or get to know me better. I realize that I messed up and I want to acknowledge that and reassure him that I'm not in a rush, but I fear that'll just make matter worse. Also, I have changed to working the nightshift now, so we can no longer talk at the time we used to, but he hasn't made the effort to contact me at any other time, either, and I find it hard to believe that 9pm or so is the only free time he has...

    Before our lunch, he'd say a lot of future-minded stuff, like "when we're in our bed" or "when you come over" or "when we go on future dates", things that show he was thinking ahead. He hasn't said anything like that since our lunch. So now I'm left wondering: did I damage this not-yet-a-relationship beyond repair? How should I proceed? Oh, one more thing: about two weeks ago, he said he wanted to get together soon for "a chat", but he didn't schedule anything at that point, nor does it seem like he will, due to my change of schedule.

    HELP?

    ReplyDelete
  66. Quick question. Any advise would be much appreciated :0)

    Been on 2 great dates with this guy who I know is interested in me. But I have always initiated contact. I have told him I won't keep doing it and he has said he prefers a girl to initiate things. As per advise given on this blog, I have waited 5 days..... It's driving me nuts!!

    How hard is it just to text 'hey, how was your weekend?'

    Am I reading his signals all wrong?

    Thank you in advance :0)

    ReplyDelete
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  68. Just because a man starts a conversation with a women, even a women he considers attractive, doesn't mean he's starting the conversation out of interest in sex or a relationship.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You can usually tell when a man is flirting with you. If you're in a public space, outside of a customer context, and a man starts talking to you out the blue, you can safely assume that he's interested in you.

      Even in communal settings, I've noticed that men don't often initiate conversation with women. I'm in a fitness class where I talk to all the girls and the boys keep to themselves. I don't deliberately surround myself only with other women but I'm following Andrew's advice not to initiate contact and the men in the class never talk to me or the other women (so it's not that I'm not approachable). Because of this established distance, if one of them did start talking to me one-on-one, I'd take that as an approach. And I've seen the same kind of interaction between the sexes in other spaces. I used to have a few male friends, and we only became friends because I started talking to them. I don't think men in general seek out friendships with women. Obviously this is not true for everyone but I would say it's the majority of men. And when I say 'friends', I'm implying some kind of real bond and not just acquaintance level involvement.

      Delete
  69. If a man cancels a date, changes plans last minute or anything in that area, what would you say is the appropriate reaction?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It depends on a lot of factors such as if this is a first date, and the conditions under which you made plans. In my own experience it is usually a red flag but in some cases it doesn't mean much. Andrew wrote a post called Men that like you will explain themselves, you may find it helpful: http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2012/12/men-that-like-you-will-explain.html

      I think it's actually worse if you have already been on a few dates. The reason is that it COULD be a sign of waning interest. If it is a first date it might mean that he is not especially excited about going out with you but you can't really expect him to be very invested in a relationship with you at that point - especially if he has options, you may be another pretty girl. It's worse if he was into you before and now he is losing interest.

      Anyway, regardless of the conditions I would react in the same way: be completely casual and blase. Don't make the mistake of acting angry or showing him that you are hurt. Here's the thing: that is STRIKE ONE and you know it's a red flag. I usually give people three strikes. If he cancels or lets you down two more times CUT HIM OFF, end of story.

      Delete
  70. Hi Andrew - thanks for your wonderful posts that are all very insightful.

    What are your thoughts on a girl texting after a first date, the next morning, to say "thank you for dinner last night, I had a nice time"? Or is that still considered initiating?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Women should text after dates. The way you let a man know you enjoy yourself is to thank him and tell him you had a good time at the end of the date. If he tries to kiss you, kiss him. Other than that women don't need to do a thing.

      Delete
    2. Nothing wrong with texting after a date.

      Delete
    3. Initiating contact is needed when communicate with shy or introvert guy. If not then just live like a robot, following the rules, conservative rules that men always do everything first in approaching.

      Delete
  71. This is total BS. Been married for 7 years, happily, to a guy who I initiated contact with! The horror! Just be yourself, not needy, look good, be fun..the rules are bullsh*t.

    ReplyDelete
  72. But what if a woman just wants to have sex? Not all women want to date and get married. been there, done that, so boring.

    ReplyDelete
  73. most of the women today want to date so many men at one time, and just can't commit themselves to only one. makes it much harder for us serious men that are looking to meet a good woman to have that relationship with.

    ReplyDelete
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  78. I completely agree with the 'don't play below your league thing,' since I have learned the hard way that relationships like this with a guy too different from yourself does not work out.

    I use to have a really romanticised view of dating guys (where looks and social status are irrelevant in terms of your feelings for each other)
    Though there was this guy that I liked whom is not considered good looking by others, while I was considered attractive by people around me.
    Though I was initially attracted to his personality, confidence, height (qualities of men which you deemed attractive to women which was true for me). His friends and peers constantly made digs at him such as 'what does she see in you?' which lowered his confidence. Hence which later caused him to badmouth me towards his friends to make me seem more unattractive. Moreover he was lying to me with things such as 'you look better without makeup,' or 'why don't you gain more weight' etc. which annoyed me since he felt he needed to go through such extremes (to as I once overheard him say "keep me away from the other guys out there)

    All in all I now realise that I should be looking for the best kind of guy i can, rather than looking for merely a decent guy who i am not particularly physically attracted to to develop a strong romantic connection with.

    ReplyDelete
  79. I've been approached by, hit on by, proposed to by and stalked by what feels like every guy to whom I'm NOT attracted (I have considered and discounted whether their disinterest may be what attracts me).
    Is this an issue of my current age/ a phase (I'm in my early twenties) or have I picked up a nasty habit/personality trait that drives away those I'm interested in?

    Fantastic blog. Intellectual intercourse!

    Name is Genee, btw (Site will only allow me to post as anonymous?)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There should be a dropdown menu under your reply dialog box for various "Reply as" options.

      Delete
  80. So how do I know "my league"?? I have a skewed sense of my own attractiveness so I know that guys say im hot all the time but I can't really judge that for myself. I have a on of questions I could ask and im going to try not to ask all of them but first and foremost is how do I know what league I am in?

    What are some good ways of testing that? I would ask my best guy friends but no offense to themI am fairly sure that I am at least out of their league so I don't think they will be a good judge necessarily.

    Also can you comment on like how fit is too fit... Because I love working out and I have always been an athlete and I do it because I want to like the way I look and I hate when guys like think girls with abs are scary. I know that guys think I have a really hot body but at the same time I think they might be intimidated and truthfully I just don't think those guys are worth my time. Biologically speaking guys should have an easier time being fit/ toned and so if I have better abs than a guy my personal opinion is that they obviously aren't working hard enough...

    Also can you talk about girls and guys being friends? I love having guy friends (i know you say dont try to be one of the dudes but I do that with guys that I have hardcore friend zoned because thats just how i like it) but I have a big problem with them falling in love with me. I am still going strong with my best friend who ive known since kindergarden and have been super close with for almost 9 years but still everyone says it cant work and blah blah blah. Also I guess all my guy friends are less attractive than me and I'm def not attracted to them hence the friend zone but do I just have unrealistic expectations of a more attractive guy falling for me or (what I am pretty certain is the case/ unless im just fugly and everyone is lying ahha) am I just pushing them away because I am a head case and because for some reason I act differently around guys that I may like or that I think are cute and Im just not as open.

    Sorry this post was so long... oops

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You don't have to know your league on that level. It is not like getting a grade in school or something. Anyway, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. As a woman, it is easy because you will recognize you league without rejection. You can just be yourself and better yourself. Learn to be more approachable and guys will come to you. Only then will you figure out where you stand on the scale of attractiveness. Then again, it is different for everyone and looks aren't everything.

      Do not ask your friends how attractive you are. Girlfriends will tell you that you are the hottest thing ever. And guy friends will think you are stuck up for asking. Anyway, do you really want to know? Maybe your guy friend thinks that you are a 5...what then? Maybe you are far from his type.

      Delete
    2. No one can really answer how fit is too fit. Guys have different preferences, so do woman. Every guy likes their woman toned and proportional. But some men like athletic bodies and others like the voluptuous type. Men that say they dislike abs on women might like bigger breasts and curvy figure, round butt. Generally, girls that work out a lot lose their curves, aka smaller breasts/butt. Or some like skinny looking woman as opposed to muscular ones. Athletic fit can mean different things too. Some woman like the 'soccer player' vs 'football player' body.

      As for the friend zone questions, it sounds like you are younger than who he is referring to. Not judging, just that guys don't generally have a lot of close girls that are friends when they grow up and start dating seriously. And body type doesn't play such a major role as you get older. I mean i have dated a guy with a six pack that didn't hold a candle stick to a fit and more intellectually stimulating guy.

      Eventually guy friends get into relationships and start hanging more with their girlfriends...get married...have kids...stop chilling with girls they aren't dating...do on guys nights.

      Delete
  81. Sorry, maybe someone else has asked, or whatever, but does this only pertain to initial contact? Like first time meeting, etc?

    Here's my story.

    I've known this guy for 3yrs now. I've only seen/talked to him at events that we'd both go to. Never actually hung out with him outside of it. Two months ago, he messaged me on FB and asked for my number and said we should hang out. It took a couple of weeks for us to actually set a time/day to go out together. Even though he asked for my number initially, I have a feeling that if I hadn't randomly texted him one day, it probably would've taken longer for us to actually hang out. And when I did hit him up that one time, I didn't have any intentions of setting up this date with him, but more just to see if he was available to hang out while I killed some time (He just happened to be one of the few people I texted that time). Anyway, I really like him. But the problem is, he doesnt really text me or initiate contact first. I'm always the one texting him first. He responds well and puts in an effort to keep our conversations going, but he never hits me up unless I text him first. There were only a couple of times that he texted me to ask questions, but never to just say hi. I see him at least one a week at dance practice and we interact quite well. We've only gone out alone together twice. He always leaves me with suggestions of hanging out "next time" or he says something like "we should go to the beach next time" or "we'll grab dinner next time" It's always next time! But he never gives me actual time/day and he never follows up. I'm trying to figure out if he's interested in me or just want to be friends. I'm so confused because he sends too many mixed messages.

    What do you think I should do?? I really want to move on from this. Please help! :/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Easy answer, move on. He either is hardly interested or not interested. Either one is low on the totem pole. Do you really want to be persuading someone to date you at the beginning? Just let it be. If he wants to take it anywhere, he will find you. He has your number and is your FB friend. I have seen guys work like the CIA to get in touch with a girl they like. i.e. Met a guy at a party on vacation who I brushed off after flirting. Knowing my name, he found out where I live from friends. Took a taxi to the hotel, and was in the lobby screaming my name.

      Essentially, find someone that is clearer in his intentions. You want a man that is more persistent. If he in fact likes you, this speaks volumes about his character. As a boyfriend, he will keep you wondering if he is going to take you out. Why would you want that?

      Delete
    2. You're right. I don't want that. I want a man who will take the lead and goes for what he wants.
      At that initial contact when he asked for my number, he showed signs that that's what he's about, which is what got me to open up to him and become interested, but then it started to fade away... He still gives me mixed signals tho.
      Anyway, I really don't want to go through all the stress and frustration in trying to figure him out anymore when he most likely doesn't even think about it at all!
      Thanks for the advice!

      Delete
  82. I'm an attractive girl in her late 20's who was a +1 at a mutual friends wedding. Basically I was going to cancel last minute because of work but something happened and I wound up going. I noticed this guy immediately and couldn't stop smiling at him and basically staring at him, he noticed me first though. He was a friend of the groom and friends with a lot of people there. Well, his best friend came up to my table and asked me to go out with the bridal party and their fiends (limo) afterwards and I agreed. His friend was hitting on me but I went to have some fun and get to know his friend :)

    We made eyes all night and both guys were there, next to me at all times. They are both slightly younger by a few years...Anyways his friend 'R' sat next to me and kept talking me up in the limo but me and 'C' couldn't stop staring at each other. I was drawn to him...We get out and both are following me to the club, we start talking and eventually all three on and 'C' just took my hand and we sat down outside. Perfect gentlemen. Protected me all night. Shielded me from everything...asked for my number and wanted to take me to dinner. He even reminded me of how he saw me...I sat on his lap and he held my hand...kissed my forehead. The chemistry and connection was unlike anything I've ever had with anyone and it was immediate.

    He texted the next day and made plans for the next weekend for dinner. We texted here and there in between. We have a ton in common and the date was magical. He told me about himself...his childhood, family, school and a lot of his past etc.
    We talked about so much, we have quite a bit in common and the whole time I wanted to kiss him. He told me he was nervous before the date....we left and he took my hand again. He held me close and I invited him over...To talk.

    We were fully clothed the whole time but talking led to touching and the mother of all make outs :) Nothing sexial happened but I feel like i can 'feel' him...I know I turn him on. He def. thinks i'm attractive and seems to like my goofy and perky personality...I don't have to play a role...I'm just me and he seems to dig it. He lives far away so I told him he could sleep in my bed, clothes on. I wanted to make love to him right there but I think this may be the start of something and I don't want to ruin it with sex to soon. He agreed. We couldn't stop cuddling and touching legs, feet, bodies in bed and the next morning was magic. We hugged, kissed and rolled around in bed fully clothed, talking bout life and giggling for no reason. He picked me up and raised me in the air and kissed me with his hands cupping my face...soo passionately. He told me to call him after work... Walked me to my car, told me he had a great a time and.... but then I got nervous and sad...I didn't know when i would see him again...so I told him I had to go :(

    He was about to tell me when I could see him again...and I cut him off.

    Later that day I thanked him for a great time and he did the same. He has texted me almost every morning at 6-8am to tell me 'good morning beautiful...have a great day!' with a smiley face and i do the same. But he has not initiated a second date...I know he's shy and nervous around me. I invited him out this weekend because I feel like we need to just have some fun but now reading this article I may have made a mistake :(

    I want to be good friends but I'm falling so fast and I'm scared. It's not like I'm desperate...I have men on a waiting list, lol. I'm just picky and I deserve someone special, not someone who wants to just f*ck and leave. I've been hurt so many times...He's the perfect man for me so far and I'm scared

    Should I just have let him initiate the second meeting? He is moving closer to me in the next few weeks...Why text me every morning if he isn't thinking about me first thing? I'm not good at this stuff

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hello BubblyBarbie,

      I am really curious about how it went the last month. Tell me about it.

      Actually, as you might have noticed, I think this guy is really good with women in general. And he sure likes you more than a simple f*ck.

      You can definately invite boys and let a boy know if you like him.

      What I am missing a bit in your story is that you don't have unique reasons to like him. What makes him special compared to other guys? Did you tell him that? I am not talking about factual communalities, but more about the deeper motivational emotional stuff.

      Anyways, the truth is: he is good with women in general, he probably goes allong with other women as well and he find it difficult to make a decision.

      All you have to do is to make him a little bit more invested than the 'good morning beautiful..have a great day!' as this text is not unique and can be copy pasted to many girls.

      Take care.

      Chunk
















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  83. Hi the rules revisited,

    I work as a dating coach at social excellence (www.socialexcellence.net) for a couple of years. I know the perspective of hundreds of guys, and recently women are also coached, that is why i found this website. Furthermore I dated also hundreds of girls.

    I did not have time to read the comments, but i don't agree fully with your text.
    I agree with the sentence that you should watch after a guys actions instead of words. But isn't that the same as with girls? One thing you should watch after is the emotional investment someone makes.

    Furthermore, waiting untill a guy approaches?! The only guys that approach girls are players a lot of the time, there are so many insure guys, who are nice, rich and interesting. So you text can be totally misleading. Maybe it is the WORSE indicator ;-). However, throwing all the guys who approach girl in the player catogory is unreasonable as well, just saying the above things to challenge your ideas.

    In your point of view, a girl who approaches men can be seen as 'easy'. Seriously, I think you are somewhat right. But the cool thing is this: you can filter guys out, of course asking the right questions and be clear what you are looking for, helps, but yes they can be misleading. No the best indicator is emotional investment and look for the actions a guy performs. Next, it is extremely attractive if a girl knows what she wants. This is becoming a rare type of girl as well.

    Innitiating contact has somewhat to do with this, yes, but taking this as the only indicator is unreasonable.

    Furthermore, as i resently started with coaching women, if done in the right way, women can do this easily and effectively as i have seen already a few happy relationships coming out of this :-).


















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  84. Honestly, you lost me at "there is more men than women that want casual sex?"

    How long would you wait for something you've been told all your life does not exist? Wouldn't wanting it be stupid? How long do you think women can believe in the Tooth Fairy while people like you tell us to give but not expect anything? The women in their twenties today grew up in a culture of American Pie-like movies and stand up jokes about how much men hate marriage and responsability. If women sleep around like men now, it's that they don't want to fake believing in people they've always been told would disappoint them anyway!
    Seriously, what can a man have that could make us so desperate to get one for long? According to popular culture, they're all man-children and parasites! If a woman needs a man to get a child, she needs a sperm donor, nothing else. Does she need a man to raise a child? Maybe, but popular sexism holds that men dread nothing more than to be fathers, will either suck at it or hit the road. Does she need a man for money? What do you want, a gold digger? Dildos may be better at giving an orgasm but there is one little thing that only a man's (no, just his erection) can give and that's an ego boost. The more hook ups, the more ego boosts. The rest, we just dopn't believe in the Tooth Fairy anymore.

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  85. Hi, this is my first time on this site and I've been reading quite a lot of your article posts right now.
    Thank you for this post! :D
    Regards,
    Marie

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  86. What does it say, when a guy tells his ex that he likes the fact that the girl still wants to be with him. And that it makes him feel wanted and useful and cared for?

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  87. Andrew, I do agree with this post and that the guy should initiate contact at first and even well into the relationship... but at what point is it okay for the girl to start initiating contact? after a certain point it should be 50/50

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  88. Andrew, I have been following your posts from past few months and they are very practical and positive. Thanks for helping us out:)

    "When you initiate contact with a man before you know his intentions, you are denying yourself the least equivocal and therefore most important indication of his interest."

    Andrew, what are your thought on a woman initiating interest on an online matrimonial site, where everyone's intentions are to find a partner to get married to? I am an Indian female and I am on the Indian matrimonial websites. Should I initiate interest in men?
    I have initiated many times, and most of the times the guys never respond. Some of them do respond, but they turn out to be not-my-type. However, I once did meet my type of guy, with whom I was able to get 3 dates. I had initiated interest. But he vanished after those dates, I later learnt he found someone else. I wonder if things would have ended differently had he initiated interest or maybe he genuinely did not like me that much (whether or not I initiated interest).
    Should I be initiating interest going forward? I feel, if I don't, I may be losing out on some good guys. I do not feel weird initiating interest at all. I just want to know if it will actually harm my chances of a relationship.

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    1. "I wonder if things would have ended differently had he initiated"

      I doubt it. The biggest difference would be that you wouldn't have wasted your time or become unnecessarily emotionally attached to a guy that was obviously going to leave (to whatever small degree you did get attached, I mean).

      You don't "not initiate" to make him like you more - because it won't - you don't initiate to save yourself going through the whole dating process only to get dumped. Now, that still might happen if HE initiates, but it is less likely. If you initiate (= have to initiate in order to get his attention), then the eventual break-up is virtually inevitable, even if you have a few seemingly good dates.

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