Wednesday, November 27, 2013

How "Hard to Get" Should You Play?

Every woman has been advised at one time or another that she can increase her attractiveness to a man by showing him less interest, that is, by playing "hard to get." Most people don't disagree with this advice, at least not completely; they understand that there is a psychological mechanism by which people tend to want what they can't have. But there is plenty of disagreement about the degree to which this tactic should be applied. A lot of girls obsess over how to strike a balance between "too easy" and "too hard to get." They analyze text messages, scrutinize their response times, stress out about when is the right time to sleep with a guy, or wonder if they will lose their chance with a guy off by not making a move themselves.

The reality is that there isn't any strict rule about how "hard to get" you need to play. Or rather, it varies for each girl and in each situation. Some girls need to apply it more than others. There are girls that immediately cling to any interested guy that meets their minimum requirements, and these girls could benefit quite a bit by showing some self-restraint. On the other end of the spectrum, there are girls with colder dispositions that would dissuade even the most persistent men by playing any harder-to-get than they already do. How hard-to-get you should play also depends on the guy in each situation. More persistent men will push through a higher amount of resistance, while those with a lot of options or lower degree of interest in a girl will be more easily deterred. You could drive yourself crazy trying to figure out where exactly along each spectrum you and he lie, and how to calibrate your behavior accordingly.

The good news, and the main point I want to make here, is that you really shouldn't over-think this. If a guy is interested in you, there is a wide margin between the behaviors that will make him think of you as "needy" and "uninterested." It will be incredibly difficult to change his interest in you by small things like agreeing too readily to a date, or being too enthusiastic in your texts. As long as you are agreeing to go out with him and not acting bored when you spend time together, you are showing more than enough interest to avoid discouraging the average guy. And as long as you aren't asking him out all the time, or initiating contact with him regularly, you aren't going to appear needy enough to turn him off.

Now, if a guy isn't that interested in you, the thresholds for "needy" and "uninterested" will be closer together, and smaller "mistakes" might cause him to change his mind about you. The girls that obsess over their behavior or the content of their text messages are usually dealing with a guy like this. In fact, his nonchalance about the relationship is usually what drives this hyper-awareness in the first place. The mistake these girls make is to think that their behavior that is responsible for the guy's decision to stop seeing them. While this is true in the limited sense that their behavior triggers the guy's decision, the reality is that his lack of interest was making it next to impossible not to trigger that decision.

Think about it this way: if a guy can be turned off just because you use the wrong adjective in a text, or sleep with him a couple dates too late or soon, or do some other small thing "wrong," then there isn't enough attraction there to sustain a relationship anyway. It was a losing battle from the outset. If the guy doesn't like you enough that you can behave naturally, then he doesn't like you enough for a relationship to last. There is no way you can perpetually guard every word and action around him, or control every emotional impulse forever; at some point you need to be able to relax and be yourself, and he needs to like what he sees when you do so. If you are in a situation where you are stressing out about what to do or say around a guy, your problem isn't your inability to know how to act, or your inability to calibrate your behavior, it is your inability to be comfortable with rejection.

This phenomenon can be illustrated with a simple plot, as shown below. The whole point is that it isn't worth spending your time in a dating situation that falls to the left of the dotted line. If you do, there won't be enough leeway between "needy" and "uninterested" behavior to allow you to be yourself in the relationship. In order to avoid the (red or blue) "no date" zones, you'll have to be constantly guarding your behavior in the same obsessed way that you are right now, as you attempt to get into or hold on to the relationship that is causing you so much stress. Where exactly the dotted line falls is something you need to decide for yourself; but you need to recognize that a limit exists. Until you do, you are going to give yourself a lot of grey hairs - and have nothing to show for it in the end.


Incidentally, guys make the same mistake all the time in their attempt to attract girls. It is particularly evident when you watch guys trying to figure out how to approach and pick girls up. If you could see how obsessively men try to figure out the right thing to say to a girl, or the best way (or time) to approach her, you would know exactly what I mean.* Men are constantly over-analyzing these things. What many men don't realize, is that if they need to force their behavior into a tiny, perfect mold in order to attract a girl, then they aren't going to be able to hold onto her for very long. The act can't be maintained forever; eventually they will need to relax and behave naturally, at which point the tailored personality that attracted her will disappear, and so will she.

In light of all of this, the goal - for men and women - should be to work at self-improvement slowly and steadily - in the long-term, but to relax and be themselves with the opposite sex in the moment. So if you are finding yourself constantly calculating your next "move" in a relationship, or watching your words too much, recognize that you are probably fighting a losing battle. Take a deep breath, relax, and focus instead on making yourself vulnerable to the possibility of rejection. Remember, sometimes it is a good thing.

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* In fact, you can see this if you just do a Google search for "pick up artist" or "approach anxiety" and read the uncountable number of websites, blogs and books that have been written in an effort to perfect these things. In fact, I am convinced that men freak out about this stuff way more than women do. Perhaps this is because the pressure is on us to make the first move, but the obsession is still there.


Related Posts
1. Self-Improvement Takes Time
2. On Being a "Typical" Girl
3. Get Used to Rejection
4. Living Vulnerably
5. Don't Initiate Contact

44 comments:

  1. Interesting post – I’ve noticed that worrying about this issue is related to how much we like the person in question.

    Have you ever noticed that it’s those we DON'T want who really want us, and those we DO want who don’t really want us? And when someone that we’re ambivalent is chasing us it seems so easy to know exactly what to say, and when to say it?

    Therefore I find the easiest way to know how “hard to get” one should act – for either gender – is to act the same way with someone you really like, exactly the same as you would with someone you’re ambivalent about.

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    1. It's because many of the people who really want us tend to be below our league in looks and market value, so we generally don't want them with the same intensity. On the other hand, we tend to want and desire the very people who are above our league in looks and market value, but these 'high value' people don't reciprocate the level of interest due to all the options at their disposal.

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    2. Yep you're correct. We're all trying to date out of our league - because we're all just so darn fabulous aren't we! Chuckle.

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    3. Women fall into three broad areas for men in terms of attractiveness:

      1) Pretty enough for an LTR/marriage
      2) Hot enough to bang but not LTR
      3) Below the boner threshold

      If you (as a woman) are clearly in category 1 then you don't need to play hard to get at all. Assuming your personality and life are decent then the guy will want to LTR you and the less hurdles to jump through the better.

      If you're in category 2 then no amount of playing hard to get will help you get an LTR. However, playing hard to get can make the man that wants to bang you (only) want to chase you a bit more. However once he's banged you (once or for a while as a FWB), he'll tire of you and move on, assuming he has other options.

      Probably the only time where playing hard to get can work is if you're just on the edge of category 1 and 2. The guy isn't sure enough if you're hot enough (or compatible enough in terms of personality/goals) and so by mixing up being sweet and seductive with a bit of hard to get can make him want you more. This can work once in a while to get an LTR. But just be aware that since you're at the borderline once he gets you he might realize you aren't sufficiently in category 1.

      But since most women are at least a bit hypergamous and fantasize about men out of their league (see Pride & Prejudice, Twilight, 50 Shades and many other romances) at least for a while until they get more realistic (though some never learn), many women will want to try and catch the elusive higher-value-than-she-is man.

      But only playing hard to get won't work if you're on the borderline. You really need to pull him in with sweetness and seductiveness (and good/fascinating conversation wouldn't hurt either) and then push him away a bit to make him want you more.

      Push/pull tends to work a lot better on women than men though.

      Broadly speaking, women are like cats (more aloof and love to chase the spot of light from a flashlight as you quickly move it around the room), beta men are like dogs (overly affectionate, loyal and needy) and alpha men are like tomcats (out to get laid...though some alphas either always or eventually want LTRs). And omega males...well, I guess you could say they're just plain old skunks, repulsive and cringe inducing to most females.

      Here's a post I wrote on this taxonomy:

      http://www.justfourguys.com/women-are-like-cats-betas-are-like-dogs/

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    4. I should add that push/pull can help a bit with guys that see you in category 1 but be careful not to push them away too much (don't be too hard to get) because they'll get discouraged and think you're not interested.

      Having read many comments about women trying to send signals of interest to men and the men not realizing it, it's safe to say that far too often women are already playing too hard to get and need to play less hard to get with men in their league. When you realize that the average beta male is constantly beaten over the head with the implicit accusation that men are creeps and potential rapists, combined with some harsh rejections and the meme that women don't need men, it's better for women to error on the side of being friendlier, warmer and more flirty than hard to get.

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    5. @HanSolo

      would you say that being "hard to get" is directly related to having strong boundaries?

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    6. They can be related. I think you're distinguishing between playing and being "hard to get." People should be hard to get when the "getting" means compromising their values or violating their boundaries. I think that women should set up and enforce healthy and reasonable boundaries on what they do and do not want. Keep out those who don't want to engage in fair-trade endeavors. However, women should not artificially keep out the men they want to get in. I think that being or playing too hard to get for the guys that would make good partners is a problem for women these days...along with letting in too many of the guys that the women wish would commit but won't, often due to the guy being a bit out of her league and willing to pump and dump or be FBs but little more.

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    7. Han-great post! I like your summary posted here (sans the cats/dogs :)). What do you think about women/people just being themselves? That's the approach I go with. And that's primarily because pretending to be someone you're not is probably a waste of time. My girlfriends and I call it the padded bra syndrome; don't give men the wrong impression. To me it's important to have someone who wants me to want e for who I am, flaws and all. All that said, it's important to take time to get to know people you date. But to the issue of playing hard to get, I like Andrew's seeming conclusion that being yourself (maybe expressing your like for someone rather than playing hard to get) is a reasonable approach to take. Do you think that works??

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    8. How about after talking to a guy for 3 weeks I told him I liked him..I said it flirty like: "I kinda sorta like you." He said it back to me, and since then(1 week ago) he's been kind of hot and cold. Really eager when he does text me and then kind of aloof when he doesn't. I thought I was giving him the right clues by telling him that, but I'm not sure if that's biting me in the ass now. :/

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    9. do you really think that looks are all that matters for category 1.?

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  2. Quoting from the post "the more confident he is, the less he likes you"

    ""I know I need to act around her the way I act around girls that are way into me. It's just so much more easily said than done..."

    "I hear ya man. That's the irony of it all. When I am really into a girl, I somehow fuck it up. When I don't care at all, they fall in love with me. It sucks.""

    fits the bill.

    also this quote from Heidegger, "we pursue that which retreats from us" gives food for thought.

    but it takes a good deal of acting classes to achieve proficiency at 'playing' hard to get.
    being hard to get though, is a different story.

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    1. addendum:
      people are (maybe on a subconscious level) attracted to someone who is hard to get IF other desirable traits are there. Not because they are hard to get, but despite it.

      also, "playing" hard to get is not the same thing. when the elusiveness and the mystery give people an edge of interest, it is because they are curious as to Why (what makes them hard to get).

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  3. Thank you for this amazing post. My close guy friend asked me why I am so distant and cold towards guys, I never realized I was adding the 'hard-to-get' element to my already indifferent nature towards guys, which is really a sign of an insecurity. I am too afraid to be rejected or look stupid, so I act 'aloof' to guard my ego and to supposedly attract guys because it always seemed as aloof women had the best men around them.

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  4. Oh my how this post will help me with future. Often times I have been worrying about the wrong things (Did I text him too soon? Did I not show enough interest? Was I too available? Not available enough? Should I have revealed my religious views? Was I too political? Did I say too much? Not enough?

    I agree that self-improvement takes time. But how about those of us with loose skin/saggy breasts from major weight loss? I'm saving up for surgery but that will take at least another year or two. What should I do when dating or a guy wants to touch my body?

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  5. How many pounds did you lose that it gave you the loose skin? If I may ask. Was it like some hundred pounds?

    No offense. I believe that people who are determined enough to lose a lot of pounds generally have very strong will which would enable them to succeed in doing virtually anything so it is admiration which I feel for you. Did you use medicine/surgery? Or was it pure working out + nutrition and dieting?

    I lost about 50 lbs myself which I had gained over a very short time prior to the weight losing. But I look better compared to before I began to gain weight because this weight loss engagement forced me into an established routines of various exercises (which I rarely did before I began to get fat) and it drove me in becoming a nutrition expert which helped me to abandon all unhealthy food which is pervasive on market shelves!(which I did not mind before my weight began to turn crazy). I do not experience as you described, instead my skin quality turned a lot better. Probably the sweat in exercises and healthy nutrition helped it. My breast turned better looking too since my weight gaining improved its size while my weight losing did not decrease it back.... instead it gave me some muscle tones on the abs which I did not use to have. BUT, not necessarily it's for the sake of relationships. I think that even if a woman already has a guy secured, then weight management and keeping healthy is still important. Because beautiful appearances are indications of good health and fertility. They also give one clearer brain status and reduced risks of cardiovascular diseases, they help with giving energies in doing a lot of things and they are helpful in giving out healthy babies also.

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    1. Also confused about the optimal weight, which I did a lot of research on. Have mixed messages coming in:
      1. Fashion models mostly have BMI's way way under the the healthy range.
      2. Playmates mostly have BMI's of around or under 18,5.
      3. According to a research paper, females with 20.85 BMI is the most attractive to men's eyes in all ages.
      4. According to another research paper the most attractive female BMI to college age guys are a bit lower then 20.85, instead it's around 19.
      5. The optimal BMI for prior to baby conceptions is 21. (Some other sources say its either 21 or 22, that range).

      Mine is currenlty 21.4 . I may continue my routines and reduce it to smaller. But I'm also careful not to make myself unhealthy. I know there are female celebrities who get sterile because they are too thin while they look good on stage. But if it's good I can continue to lose more just as I did before. But how far should I go though?

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  6. Thank you for this article, just what I needed right now! At the moment, though, I'm just trying to figure out whether the guy who I've started dating isn't that interested in me, or is playing the whole 'hard to get' act himself. He's been hurt in the past by girls and he briefly admitted at one point how he acts mean towards otherwise as a kind of defensive barrier, because his kindness has been mistaken for weakness in the past, but I don't know what to think.

    He'll ask me out on dates, has told me he's not just after sex, behaves like he's attracted to me when we're together, and initiates conversations. But when we do talk by text, he is rarely affectionate with his words and appears a little disinterested. I'm just honestly not sure whether I'm wasting my time with him..

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    1. He has interest in being around you.......and low interest when you're not together (i.e. texting)

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    2. @wintergurl2k13 good point. i am a little like that personally, as I'm trying to get rid of my 'nice guy' persona.

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    3. you're projecting. men use texting to convey information and set up plans. unless you are 'together', that's all you'll get. combined with what you said above, it makes sense. also, are you affectionate in text?

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    4. In my opinion some guys may view text messages for some girls as a constant 'boost' to a women's ego throughout the day. Let me explain abit more. For a guy like the one you're telling us about, he does not want to give you 'close to most of the power'. Really ask yourself this question how does it make you feel when a guy give you a compliment? Great! Right? With that something within your mind respond to to that in away of 'now I can try less'. Make any sense?

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  7. I don't buy into this whole "playing hard to get" idea. Too often that's just going to be interpreted as "not interested." That's certainly how I'm going to take it, and I'll just move on to someone who isn't being so difficult. And why do we have to "play" anything at all? How about we just be adults instead...

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    1. i agree with your comment. "playing" hard to get, basically is an artificial way to avoid looking too interested/ desperate/ needy. no one wants these traits. but when people are attractive and (not playing) hard to get, curiosity draws others' interest to them.

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  8. Okay well this guy from my old job started talking to me. he used to have a gf but they broke up. we were gonna finally meet up on tues for a date, but we didnt plan well and it didnt work out. so he asked if I was free friday, and I said yes, but then he never responded with plans come friday. should I txt something like "haha we're never gonna hang out r we? lol" .....also in btween tues and fri he did txt me a happy thanksgiving. I also worry I hold back too much, because of the 3 txts convos we've had he has started them all. should I send him a random flirty txt one night or will that make me look obsessed/desperate? i feel like its so much harder to be interesting over txt to. I havent got to see hi in person in at least a month so I want to be refreshed by the way he looks/sounds and have a RL convo but nothing is happening yet.

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  9. looking back at one of your other texting post actually has clarified playing hard to get to me. you don't ever initiate, but when he does you act very happy about it, and you try and let him have the last text mot of the time, etc. it's like "rewarding" him for his efforts and also making him seeing your worth, someone to be worked for, not someone who is just going to gie in easily and text.
    to other ladies: if you're unsure how to txt a guy, then don't. give it some time and think about it, or at least let some time pass and see what he does next. he should be moving the relationship, not you, or you're just kiddin yourself and not seeing if/how much he values you.

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    1. "it's like "rewarding" him for his efforts and also making him seeing your worth, someone to be worked for"

      so women are prizes? what does that make men? where's the woman's reciprocal effort?

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  10. Some recommended reading, I especially advise to take in point number 2:
    http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2010/01/21/hookinguprealities/the-power-you-gain-when-you-lay-it-on-the-line/

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  11. Sorry for the double post, doesn't seem to be an edit button anywhere.
    There's a point that needs to be made in relation to the chart above and that is about the attraction level. It is initial attraction level and needs to be taken into consideration by people trying to hook/shack up with someone.
    In todays world you as a woman can almost always expect a man to have low initial interest/attraction. You can thank your fellow attention-whore sisters for that, not to mention all the bitches that love shooting down guys as harsh as possible.

    Hence playing hard to get (showing least interest) is mostly guaranteeing you hookups with cads or pity sex with lower betas or even omegas.
    While "rabid dog" above has it somewhat right with rewarding a mans effort I would not advise this dumbass idea of "never ever ever initiate". This stems from the pov I've taken that if you expect the man to be classical, i.e. always the one that moves the relationship forward and in a certain direction you're limiting your dating pool by a huge factor. Those guys are indeed great: either greater betas or mature non-cad alphas and with them such a tactic works.

    But the great number of guys aren't those types and in todays very infecteed SMP/MMP you need to initiate here and there and *then* expect him to move things forward. If you want to protect yourself and maintain "plausible deniability" in terms of interest and attraction you are playing a selfish and short-sighted game and will yield you very little in return.

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    1. "in todays very infecteed SMP/MMP you need to initiate here and there and *then" expect him to move things forward".

      If you don't mind me asking could you explain what you mean by today's infected dating market place: How is it infected? How you would like it be disinfected? Thanks

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  12. Triple post? Sorry, but it just took me time to find this blog post that goes well in conjunction with my previous two posts:
    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/11/15/why-men-are-withdrawing-from-courtship/

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  13. Apologies in advance if this is going to sound a little bothering. This is actually not a question (for once) but just random thoughts about all I've read here and what happens to be ongoing now in my reality. Apologies also for the improper English (I'm French). I'm also not willing to sound like I'm complaining, not at all, just observing. Andrew's advice are full of wisdom and almost always very spot on, we all more or less agree with them and that they should greatly help us making it through the dating world and eventually find a partner. Well, know what ? I think I can be pretty critical about myself and know when to recognize I've made mistakes (and gosh I've made them all in the past). Last guy I met, was so fond of me that he kept messaging a friend about me and how he was so enthusiastic and tried to keep it real so to not fuck everything up. Been a real treat for me for three weeks, I was introduced to his friends, he even mentioned (to me) that he wanted to "do things right to make it work". I even did some things that would have cooled off any average-interested guy but not him. And I didn't even sleep with him, only escalated the relationship gradually. All that, only to witness him slowly fading away (well not so slowly actually, only took him 3 days) and then, in his great kindness of being a real good guy, requesting to meet me to explain himself. Turns out that he found "things were just not happening" and wondered if I felt the same. I told him the truth - why lie at this stage and pretend otherwise - which is that I, at least, was feeling something good gradually escalating between us and that I really did not see things turning out the way they did. Then he doubted - or just pretended to doubt so to not hurt me more, I won't ever know. Turns out it's been a couple of guys now acting the same way, one after the other, not just him. I just found myself believing that this one would be different, I really felt it deep down. At the moment I just feel it's pointless for me to look back and try find the one thing that I did wrong or that did not abide by to the rules that are laid here. What I really feel is that sometimes - mostly most of the times actually - instead of thinking things through like it's a strategy, we girls would do better just act spontaneously. Not messaging/calling is not always a good strategy, as isn't either not sleeping before n dates, or never tell him how you feel too soon in the relationship. I was feeling happy every time I saw him, like really happy and let him know. Most certainly I just stupidly refrained myself from initiating things or even leading this relationship towards what I'd liked it to become. Only to hear what in the end ? that since I did not seem to be wanting to see him so badly he didn't think I was so crushed with him ? ... My food for thought tonight is probably taking a step back with regards to the rules.

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    1. Hi, I would wait for him to initiate now

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  15. Hi Andrew do you have advice on a guy who's being hot and cold? One moment he's texting me asking about my day, sending funny jokes/pictures, saying he wants to see me, next day there's hardly a text from him. What gives? Am I being strung along? I know its the holidays and we're both busy and live 50 mins from each other but still we haven't seen each other in 2 weeks yet he says he wants to see me? Oh and he's hinted that he's gotten me something for Christmas. We've been talking for 1 month, and I feel like I should say something, but I don't know how to broach the topic about how I feel. I don't want to have such a serious talk and push him away, so I've kept my texting initiation to a minimum but its bothering me that we don't communicate daily like we used to. Is he testing my eagerness for him? Do guys even do that? HELP please. Thanks!

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    1. He is in a committed relationship and CHEATING on a significant other w you.

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    2. Thanks! I'm kicking him to the curb

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  17. I only initiate contact with the guy I like about 10% of the time, but he has always been very consistent on being the first to reach out, usually by text. Even though I rarely initiate contact, I always respond and engage in conversation with him and try to show genuine interest in him in hopes of encouraging him. A while back, he mentioned that I never text him first, and the I'm the only girl he knows who never does, and told me that I should. So I made an effort after that to text him first a few times in a row, but each time I did, his responses were short, distant, and quite frankly seemed COLD. So I stopped talking to him altogether, this having reinforced why I am uncomfortable with initiating contact with guys in the first place. Before too long, he was back to reaching out to me again in full force and showing lots of interest. In our most recent conversation, we talked for hours and we admitted feelings for each other. That was three weeks ago and I haven't heard a word from him since. I don't want to text him first based on the way he treated me in the past when I did, and also because I have too much pride to reach out to a guy who hasn't contacted me in 3 weeks. But I am also struggling with what to do because I hate the possibility of losing him based on me seeming too disinterested by never texting first. I'm afraid he could be testing me to see if I'll really just never talk to him again if he doesn't text first. Has he changed his mind about his feelings for me, or is he playing games to see how long I'll wait before I cave?

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    1. Kind of like my situation. Dump his ass to the curb. If a man likes you enough he'll chase you, talks to you, do anything he can to spend time with you in the flesh. Only thing that will allow you to forget him is time, another guy, or something that you are really passionate about that engages all your focus on that and away from him.

      All the best

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    2. Thank you! I was struggling with whether I should text him, but I've decided against it. Good luck with your situation too!

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  18. Women don’t play hard to get as often as you guys may think. If you think a girl is playing “too hard to get” she is probably not interested or doesn’t like you that much (she simply has better options).

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  19. I would say that a woman who considers herself high quality, is not PLAYING hard to get, she's just very choosy. Which makes her hard to get, Men like to hunt and conquer; if you take that away from them by being too easy, you take the thrill away from them and they get bored and dump you.

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  20. OMG....THANK YOU for this post! This post was so on POINT! I have often wondered in the past how much "interest" I should show a man or whether I should play "hard to get", but now this entire post makes total sense!

    I've had a few experiences in the past regarding this which have definitely made me twist myself into a pretzel trying to figure out how much interest I should show (if any at all), and the experiences that I've had with guys who were interested vs. not THAT interested (if at all) definitely echo the words in your post hands down!!

    It all makes sense now! Thank you for clarifying this! Now I don't have to wonder anymore lol. :)

    It's so simple! If a guy is into you, you have a much LARGER margin of showing interest vs. playing hard to get. But if a guy isn't all that into you, then you're always going to be on edge wondering about how much interest you should show, whether you should play hard to get, etc. That's no way to live!

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