Sunday, August 14, 2011

All Men Have Different Taste

I am strongly convinced that it does more harm than good to give a compliment when it isn’t deserved, or to give handouts that haven’t been earned. So I wouldn’t write this post if I didn’t honestly believe every word of it. I am not trying to tell ugly girls that they have a chance with Gerard Butler, or suggest that fat women don’t need to hit the gym and diet like their life depends on it, but I am also not interested in watching a perfectly attractive girl despair when she gets rejected or called unattractive by a guy she likes.

The fact is this: all men have different tastes, and the variety of tastes is surprisingly large. I could summarize this whole post by saying that my experience has shown the standard deviation of men's ratings of women on a 10 point scale to be ± 25 %, but since most women don’t like getting information in such cold and concrete terms, I will do my best to elaborate.

While every man wants a “beautiful” woman, no two men have the same idea of beauty, and the variety of taste among men will surprise most women. I am friends with some very good-looking, intelligent and accomplished guys – in other words, guys with options when it comes to selecting women. When we go out and one of us sees someone he likes, he will usually point her out to the rest of us. Invariably, we disagree about how attractive the girl is. Only rarely do two or more of us agree that she is very attractive (above an 8). More often than not, one of us thinks she is drop-dead gorgeous and the rest think she is mediocre at best. I cannot count the times I have had this conversation:

“Dude, you see that girl over there?”

“Which one, the girl in red? Yeah she is cute. I think I…”

“No, no, the one further back, in the blue dress and heels, the brunette. That girl for me is at least a 9.  I gotta go talk to her.”

“In the blue?? Dude, no way man, I’d say she’s a 6 or 6.5 at best. I like her friend though.”

“Alright, well that works for me, let’s go talk to them, I call the blue girl.”

“Haha you can have her, I got the cute friend.”

We tend to think of physical attractiveness as an absolute thing. This tendency is reflected (and reinforced) by Miss Universe-type pageants and lists bearing titles like “Hottest Women of 2010,” which suggest that attractiveness is highly objective. However, it clearly is not this black-and-white – any guy can tell you this after watching one of these pageants or looking at the girls on the lists; no man agrees with the rankings. The women that appeal most to any given man are those with a look that resonates with him personally, and the factors determining a man’s “type” are innumerable, which leads to an extremely varied concept of feminine beauty. This is an extremely good thing for men because it means we aren’t all competing for the same women, which would mean an order of magnitude more bar fights – probably wars too. I suspect the same variety exists for women’s taste in men, but I haven’t asked around enough to know if this is true.

I’ve also found that when I agree with a friend that a girl is extremely attractive, her attractiveness tends to lose its initial effect quickly. The same thing happens all the time with music. The catchiest songs, the ones that appeal to a large number of people, are the ones that you grow tired of most quickly, while the ones that you end up listening to ten years later are the ones that were more unique to your personal taste, and took some time to appreciate.

The upshot is that a girl should not get discouraged if a specific man isn’t drooling over her; there are probably other guys that will – or would, anyway, if she presented herself at her best.

It is worth noting that this variety of taste applies primarily to a girl’s style, ethnicity, dress style, or complexion – most of which are interrelated in some way. It applies to a lesser degree when it comes to body type and age, but there is a surprising variety in taste there as well.

36 comments:

  1. I'm sure you've read Roissy, and he's right about this - every man wants a thin woman with a symmetrical face, give or take a point. So a 5, who is 5'2" 140lbs is not going to get a 6ft-tall banker unless he's a chubby chaser. Are any white ones out there? Sure, but they're extremely heavy themselves.

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    1. You think 140 pounds is the target of a chubby chaser? Yeesh. Sometimes I wonder the men who post comments like this if their perception of beauty and/or fat is getting so distorted because they look at pictures all day on the internet of beautiful women rather than intereacting as much with them in person. I remember being 5'4" in highschool, with stats of 36-26-36 and roughly 140 pounds- and my looks were killer! I would love to have that again! I maintained the same proportions, but several inches bigger on a fully maturated skeleton (finished growing at 26-27) and I'm 29 now, soon to be 30. I live in an urban area, and rarely get hit on by young white guys who I know are checking me out (most of them are in their early 20's) but your typical average skinny-average body typed white guy is what I'm into, and I get hit on by black, hispanic and asian men all the time. (and the middle eastern here or there, they creep me out actually a little bit) When I was "skinny" or "fat" regardless, so don't say it was the weight, because I know it was not it. I think the avg white guy is more fantasy based and can't see a good looking woman in front of them the same way, but if they found her on FB first and saw her picture, suddently she would be hotter. Something is not translating for them from internet to reality. I've seen this start to happen mid 2000's and progressively get worse ( not to mention music too!)

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    2. "Sometimes I wonder the men who post comments like this if their perception of beauty and/or fat is getting so distorted because they look at pictures all day on the internet of beautiful women rather than intereacting as much with them in person."

      This is probably true, but it doesn't affect the fact that this is what men want.

      "I've seen this start to happen mid 2000's and progressively get worse."

      If you saw this happen only to you, then it might be (though not necessarily) be because of you are getting older. This might not be because of a change in attractiveness so much as you associating with men of a different age, with changing tastes and motivations.

      However, all that said, I think you have a good point.

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    3. Do you have any recomendations on how or where to meet hot young white guys? I vaguely remember reading somewhere here on the site that you were from cali, but who knows maybe you know something about nyc or surrounding areas. Or something I'm missing. I'm a first gen immigrant from eastern europe, and therefore come across as less "white" in persona and wondered if it has something to do with it as well. I was always part of the lower working class, and most white guys are middle class (or at least the ones I found attractive or comparable to europeans) from what I personally experienced I think the class differences in america plays a significant role in how people associate and date (and I don't mean class difference by income and $ amount) I also notice american men are... and I really don't mean any offense by this, but strange and awkward ... colder, less forward moving and less masculine energy, and all the women are just a tad bit crazier than everywhere else because of it. It's as if the (young) men here really are more fantastical in their thinking and doing much less in reality, and believe all kinds of crazy things. ( I can say similar things for UK guys) It's really stressful for me to even think about dating here in america but this is where I'll be staying for a long time, and I came out of a 9 year marriage relationship - a jumpstart to at least hook up with decent looking white guys in general or any tips would be appreciated. I feel so silly even typing all of this.

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    4. Most women at 5'2'' and 140lb would look fat, honey. You were obviously exceptional. The BMI-equivalent for me would be 150lb and I would look like a whale if I weighed that much- 35+ lb of fat above a vigorous state, double chin, etc. Most women I know would look more attractive lighter than that and I don't believe it has anything to do with the internet. Look into the weights of young women 40 years ago. The typical playboy playmate is about the same lightness for her height as a sizable fraction of the same-age women 40 or so years ago- and I would bet that small-framed women have always been preferred- and no one in America was starving. The fatness of the modern world, including, sadly, among young women, is unprecendented in history and one of the responses to it from women is to call men's tastes, far less changed over time than feminists pretend they are, "unrealistically" thin.

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    5. There's a site called mybodygallery.com that posts pics of women of each height and weight category. Type in something on each category and you'll see that weight looks drastically different on a number of women. For instance, I'm 5'4 and 143 pounds- and I'm a size 4. I think a lot has to do with your natural shape and how muscular you are. The key to weight is not how much you weigh, but whether that weight is appropriate for your frame.

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  2. One thing you got right but didn't made quite clear: Beauty is absolute, correlated to your face scale and symmetry, but physical attractiveness that every type of ethnic beauty scale brings up is relative to personal taste.

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  3. This is why I find stressing over the ranking scale useless.

    Jennifer

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  4. I think it's the same for women. My girlfriends never understand why I like someone. As a thumb rule my bff likes androgynous, thin, pale guys with long shiny black hair and I like older, balding, masculine guys with beards and glasses. Can't tell you why, one could guess she's a closet lesbian and I have father complex but that's really not the case. I don't even think we're deviant, maybe a little extreme but yeah, girls' tastes are very diverse as well.

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    1. Every girl likes older guys, father figures, financial stability, etc. no it's not the same for women

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  5. I dated a guy, briefly, who was critical of my appearance. I wasn't his type. I have no idea why he asked me out. But he was also insistent that ALL men felt the same way he did. Insisted that the attention I was getting from other guys was because they felt sorry for me.

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    1. If he was so critical of your appearance, why was he dating you? Sounds like he was a dumbass.

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    2. He was narcissist.

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    3. Ewww a narcissist at his best indeed.

      Think yourself lucky that you only dated him, my sister married that same guy but now gets called fat while she's pregnant...NICE I KNOW

      YOU DODGED A BULLET GIRL :)

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  6. Do most guys you know have a "type"?
    I certainly have a "type" when it comes to men, it's more related to background, personality and a sense of style (not to physical features, although I prefer certain 'color combinations').
    My brother got me a bit puzzled, as he has usually been looking at women with a very feminine look, but his new girl has an ultra androgynous style. He's mentioned how he finds Reese Witherspoon 'ideal' and this girl is the opposite. I do think he's on a rebound though, but it got me thinking: do most guys have a "type" in terms of looks, or more so personality?

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    1. Most guys do have a type, but more often than "I love brunettes" or "blondes" I have heard other guys say that "their type is hot." This might sound kind of meat-headish, but I think it is true that for most guys, beauty of any kind overrides considerations about a specific "type."

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    2. I have a type. I like tall girls. They can be tall and curvy or tall and skinny, but so long as they don't have a bulging stomach, I'm good. I like large breasts, angular faces, wavy hair, and dark skin. I'm essentially into MILF/mom bod. I also have a thing for skinny, pale redheads, probably because of the girl I tried to woo but failed to get in HS.

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  7. I think women should be aware of this but since so much of our energy is spent working on our appearance, we become very aware of men's opinion - perhaps we spend our time and money in the wrong way, maybe there are details we aren't aware of which would help us a lot.
    Recently I've been talking to a guy online from a dating site - it's the first time I tried. He sent me his photo - he's in his 40s, not particularly attractive (I think I can speak for most women when I say that), but I liked his profile so I decided to send a photo back. I didn't get a response for 3 days, now I asked him to delete the picture, and he said he'd be happy to.

    I was of course disappointed by this rejection, although I have to admit I was also surprised. There is no way of saying this without sounding arrogant, but here goes - I'm 22 and I think I have an appearance which appeals to 'most' men - I've been working as both a lingerie and makeup model. I can usually have my pick when I'm in a bar. I don't think it's made me 'stuck up', but I've seen it as a confirmation that I use my efforts on my looks the right way.
    Now obviously I question it. It sounds insecure to question yourself after ONE rejection, but I would have felt differently if he was younger or remotely objectively attractive. I don't know if I chose a bad photo or if I am just not his taste. But this situation got me puzzled. I see he's put his civil status to "married" now (it used to say nothing), so clearly looking for a mistress - good riddance for me.
    If I'm still usually attractive to other men, should I just conclude I'm not his taste or is something like this a reminder to improve myself?

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    1. Just conclude that you aren't his taste. No one is everyone's "type."

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    2. Maybe he thought you were 'too' good for him or perhaps because you are young, he might think you're not as good in bed or might create drama (a lot of younger women can be a bit immature). Or perhaps he's just having a look and hasn't decided if he'll cheat yet.

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    3. Sounds like he just thought that you were making fun of him because he might not have expected a woman like you to be interested in him. Maybe he thought it was some teenagers messing around with him, etc. and that you weren't a real person.

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  8. If you guys have ever seen Claire Abbott around the Internet, I'd say for the teen-college age group she's a solid 9.

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    1. That's interesting. If that's the case, young guys really place more importance on body than face - her proportions are great, but her face is (to me, as a woman) nowhere near an 8/9. I always thought you can make up for lack of beauty with a great body, but I've always been curious whether guys see through it.

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    2. I'd only say someone places more importance on body than face if he rates a girl a 9 when her face is below 6. I do have the feeling that female tend to weigh more on the face while male weigh more on the body when it comes to female beauty.

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  9. Marcel Proust once wrote when discussing beauty (in the last book of In Search of Lost Time) "Let us leave the pretty girls to the men with no imagination". What he meant by 'pretty' was what men could agree on, as opposed to beauty which is partly a product of a woman's quirks/personality/looks playing on a man's imagination.

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  11. Can you look at a man's exes and determine his 'type'/taste from that?
    I am a size 2/4, so slim, but have a bit of curves. A guy I was seeing had two ex-girlfriends whom were both VERY skinny. I mean 6", flat chested, as thin as can be. I felt a bit of pressure and was wondering whether it was his taste. Is the preference for fashion model-skinny women something you see quite a bit or is there a chance he liked them in spite of that?

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    1. Guy here
      As Andrew emphasizes, every man has different taste, I would add:
      Every guy has a more of range than a specific "type".

      For example, I like curvy girls, but my exes range from tiny chubby to tall and defined with curves.

      So don't worry too much, when you look at his exes and you are not too far from them.
      Should you be far out of that range, i.e. you are chubby and all his exes are super tall skinny, he might just want you for something casual, until something more of his taste comes along.

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    2. I'm having a bit of a chuckle here because we are responding 3 years later but I disagree with you.

      Your theory is not accurate. I know many men (not just one such as in your example) who changed who they dated hoping to date someone more in compatible with them. A man will only date what he is physically attracted to. If he's introducing you to his friends and family that's how you know if you're just casual or relationship bound.... dont compare yourself to ex's, they are ex's for a reason.

      I used to date chubby guys but now I am with a very athletic and muscular gorgeous man. If he was to look back on my ex's and felt insecure, I'd tell him he was being silly. I have changed, I found him more compatible to the new me. People change, it's the only definite in life.

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    3. Looking at exes can have downsides. My longest GF is a land whale. Do I like hambone? No, but I love her and I've stayed with her for 4 years. What am I into? Girls with hourglass figures, and broad hips with a bit of pudge but also slightly saggy titties that hang and bounce. I've never had the kind of girl I'm into. Why? Because I'm not good at attracting women and I'm not hot myself, so I take what I can get. So long as there're tits and she's not totally psycho and I can get my dick warm, I'm happy enough.

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  12. So I guess it is true that beauty is in the eye of the beholder

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  14. I came back to read this post this morning as I think it is an important one to bear in mind as a woman in dating. I'm currently giving online dating a go. I was talking to a man yesterday in chat and he asked to see more pictures of me. I sent him one which was not the best looking back..and he pretty much ended the conversation straight after. He said I had a pretty face and to stay in touch for coffee sometime..that he had to run for dinner but I kind of knew that he wasn't very impressed. You just know. So I was a quite upset after that but later had another guy I was chatting to ask me why I had taken certain photographs of me down of my dating profile (I'm currently trying to edit it)..that he had liked those pictures and was wondering why I felt the need to take them down.

    So it just goes to show I guess..that one guy's idea of unattractive or average is another man's idea of sexy as hell. And all you have to do is go onto the likes of the Daily Mail or any other celeb news feature and read the comments and you will see people call even the mot beautiful women ugly or find some fault with their appearance. Yeah, it does suck to acknowledge that not every man is going to find you appealing but that's OK..there is always going to be someone who does and very much so.

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  15. Well I found this information well apealing for knowledges sake, any woman who is offended obviously thinks she's a ten but in a mans reality is between a 7-8, lol. I don't acknowledge the 10 rate scale because men are oblivious to what really defines a woman. It's an immature way to make them feel superior, factors based upon looks, personality, etc can only determine who you are attracted to and on what level! Ha some guy recently rated me an 8 and asked what I would rate him, ltm, I simply said I am a grown woman who doesn't rate men off of a 10 rate scale! You either have my attention or you don't! Woman are so much more complex and in control but only when they allow themselves to be! Ha I bet after I said what I said depending on the maturity level of this guy, I was either dropped down to a 5 or a 9.5!!!!!! Lol! Men!!!!! It's entertainment!!!!

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  16. it's uncanny how your overall message here is exactly that of what okcupid says here

    http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-mathematics-of-beauty/

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  17. ANDREW!!!!

    Thank you so much for writing this post. You have inspired me beyond nothing you can imagine :)

    See, I came from an abusive back ground since the beginning of my earliest childhood. Grew up feeling inferior and that I have no worth. This hasn't been a logical decision, but more of a subconscious factor, running on Auto-Pilot.

    However, there have been days where I got my clothes choice, hair and makeup perfect - so the mirror said. I can remember feeling flawless and could have been standing next to Cheryl Cole and would have still been happy and perfectly content with myself, I really did feel that confident on those rare occasions.

    When I left the house, I walked the streets feeling amazing and I'm certain that I turned that many heads that day in particular. I didn't give it much attention, but could see people looking. Simply put, I felt glamors, feminine and that I stood out amongst everyone else.

    It appeared that majority of people in the street were wearing blacks etc, where as I wore a mint green chiffon top with a tan fitted belt - kind of like what they would have worn in ancient Greek times, some light faded blue fitted jeans, and a cute tan handbag with heels to match the belt and bag.
    The colors really reflected perfectly on my skin tone, hair and eye color, plus my hair is long and naturally curly where as hair straightening was really in at that time. I know that I looked different a stood out for individualistic reasons.

    However, that feeling just felt like a mask as the reality didn't match my abusive back ground.

    So...

    I'm doing a life makeover that I'm creating myself - its called Mind-Body-Soul and is designed to address key "problem areas" in life. So I'm making huge changes in my life, such as building genuine confidence, reading up on skin care and hair care, going to do lot's of research on body portions and what clothes to wear and picking the right colors etc.Then one day, I will have made a transition to that person walking down the street that day. It was me but I'm not actually there yet. Its me in 3 years from now and I will have all the foundations of a person who's living to be the best.

    On a final note, I think all people should make the best of themselves and hit the gym as if there live depends on it, because it really does - were here to procreate from an evolution perspective.
    Write now, I have spinach, cucumber, celery juiced from fresh,with a table spoon of sprulina powder. Its organic and its a super food. Green tea is good as the super models drink it because its packed with antioxidants that kills the free radicals in the body :)

    Thanks once again for creating this post, I wanted to share my story and take a moment to share thoughts.

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