Sunday, August 14, 2011

Don't Fuck on The First Date

You'd think that this one would be obvious, as hackneyed as the admonition is, but I’ve actually had some girls be genuinely surprised that we didn’t end up in a relationship after having sex with me on the first date. This "rule" is also a good springboard for addressing the general topic of female promiscuity, which has a huge impact on female attractiveness - whether or not it "should."

This is how it works: a lot of guys are looking for someone to have a serious relationship with, but most of us have also dated girls that have ultimately turned out to be less than what we were looking for. After weeks or months of effort, the relationship ends and although both parties may walk away having learned a few lessons, the time is largely wasted. It takes dozens of these attempts to meet someone that sparks a deep and genuine interest. Given those odds, and the amount of investment required to decide if any given female could be a girlfriend, fiancé or spouse, you can imagine the cynicism most men have going into a first date (I am continually surprised that I am not more cynical). If you couple this consideration with the intense pleasure of sexual intercourse, there is essentially zero chance that a man will refuse sex on a first date if he has the chance: sure, she could be “the one,” but statistically speaking, she probably won’t be, and it definitely isn’t worth turning down easy sex to find out.

Now, with that backdrop, when it comes to a potential spouse, guys don’t like the idea of a sexual relationship being “easy” any more than girls. We want to know that our date, or girlfriend, or spouse is a woman who is unobtainable to most if not all of the other men in her league. We don’t want to work for it per se, but we do want the kind of girl that guys of our caliber need to work for. We know that the best things in life never come easily, so if a girl let us fuck on the first date it shatters the perception that she is someone unobtainable to other men.

I completely understand and agree with the notion that women want sexual pleasure just as much as men, and I am aware that “giving it up” on the first date is not always giving it up so much as it is “getting it.” If that is your goal, then of course this is a different matter altogether and you are free to do that. But understand that it will not make you desirable to men. Men can do it and maintain (or sometimes increase) their attractiveness; women cannot. I acknowledge that this is holding women and men to a different standard, but in this case it is appropriate because men and women are different in this respect.

Men are built to be sexually promiscuous – or at least, we are built so that we can be sexually promiscuous. There is little risk for a man when it comes to sex: he doesn’t need to worry about pregnancy. Even if he is not using a condom, he can control when (and if not when, where) he ejaculates. As a last resort, he is able to walk away from the woman and leave her to deal with the pregnancy. This is a repulsive thing to do and no one denies this – probably not even the men who do it. But it can be done and it is done. Sexually transmitted diseases and infections have a significantly higher male-to-female transmission rate than they do from females to males, and the effects are worse for women than they are for men. There is also the factor of physical strength: if a woman goes to bed with a man she thinks she likes, she is far less able to then change her mind, for fear of rape. A man, on the other hand, has no such problems: sex for him is very low-risk. The result of this fact is that, historically, men have taken the offense in all matters sexual; we are the pursuers. Because we are more sexually liberated by nature, we seek sexual relationships more frequently. Historically the active role in relationships has fallen on our shoulders, while women have assumed the passive role. This is the case elsewhere in nature as well, for the same reasons.

It is only because Western culture in recent history has emphasized the equality of the sexes that some women see this dynamic in a negative light, and get upset about a double standard. The notion that a man should protect his wife and children, or that he should not abandon a woman he impregnates, or even that he should leave the toilet seat down when females are in the house; these notions are all rooted just as deeply in sexual differences, but because they don't place a burden on females, no objections are raised. Don’t get me wrong, if I were a woman I would be a little pissed off that sex was less socially acceptable for me than it is for a man. But there are balances to this phenomenon: women have far more opportunities to have sex than men, and thereby are able to have sex with higher quality partners. You won’t find many girls that have had sexual partners uglier than themselves, but you’ll find an endless list of guys that have – in fact, there is a contingent of men that usually only have sex with girls less attractive than themselves. This is a product of the same phenomenon: because men can have low-risk sex, women are far more in-demand for sexual relationships, and therefore have more and better options. Men may be able to get laid more often, or at least, with more partners; but women often get to sleep with men that are out of their league. It is a matter of quality versus quantity, and I think there is a lot to be said for both, to the point that I am not convinced that either one is an advantage – they are just corollaries of the same phenomenon.

A woman is judged negatively for having promiscuous sex because it takes no skill or effort on her part; all that is required is her assent. There will never be a deficit of sexually willing and attractive men from which she can select if she chooses. A man, on the other hand, has to work hard or be very lucky (or be rich, which is actually the product of the two) in order to get women of his own caliber into bed. This is because the women willing to have casual sex so are few(er) and far(ther) between. (Consider for a moment that no one respects a man who always sleeps with women that are way below his standards – everyone considers this repulsive.)

Some women will read all of this and think it is horrible and misogynist, while others will simply nod their heads in agreement. In fact, and perhaps unfortunately, which of those camps you fall into doesn't matter when it comes to the practical aspect of this phenomenon, because - opinions aside - the fact remains that men will judge you harshly for being too easy to sleep with. So the practical advice is simple: if you want a man to respect you, don't do it.


Related Posts
1. What Men Think About Your Sexual History
2. Never Tell a Guy When You'll Have Sex With Him
3. How to Turn Down a Guy For Sex
4. Men and Sexual Variety

233 comments:

  1. Wow. Wow. Wow.

    Validating one of the most pathetic double standards in history: Player vs Slut. Saying things like, "her value as a woman drops dramatically." Holy shit, dude. I know why you are single!

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    1. Elle, you are right...it is a double standard. But this is a battle that women simply won't win. We can't continue to try and fight this battle. Men will think this way regardless. As a woman, I just set the same standards that men set. I will not give myself to a man that has been a hoe or would try to have sex with me on the first date. He would immediately be dropped.

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    2. As a woman - think about what fucking on a first date it, essentially its a one night stand and you maybe got lucky and got fed first. He's actually worded this one quite right... its not in a guys biology to be monogamous, its actually the opposite to spread his seed. Don't forget that sex is the act of reproducing, its meant to bring babies, as humans we've worked out we quite like it and put the babies on hold! But biology plays a HUGE part in sex, courtship and its obvious that men and women feel differently about it and behave differently. I've fucked guys that I'd consider sluts (for being easy, for having a high bedpost notch count) and I was under no illusions that this type of male would make the worst boyfriend ever! As a woman you need to believe in the pussy power - we have something they want and if you wanna give it up on the first date then fine, get some, have fun, but the point of this post is DON'T EXPECT IT TO BE MORE THAN SEX. You have sex on the first date, well he's just won the jackpot. Don't you want to give him something to come back for, to work for a little bit?

      I didn't jump into bed with my current boyfriend and he's a really nice respectful guy but he thinks the same on girls that you take home the first night: challenge accepted and won, next! Its not a double standard, why would you want to give it up on the first night before you know this guy unless you are easy (like him) or incredibly horny (like him) its actually double standards when it comes to men, they are very unlikely to say no (making them all a big bunch of sex happy sluts) and women hold much more control in this matter by being able to make him wait.

      I don't understand why women take this so negatively when it can be used to our advantage in weeding out the kind of guys we want to date and those that are just good for the physical action. Simply put from the horses mouth (the bf) when asked on this subject : "I'd rather get to know a girl, I need to care about her first before we have sex, then sex helps solidify that need to care, otherwise its just sex" - why would a woman expect less than that? I've been a slut, I've been coy and I wind up making not too bad a girlfriend but you have to play it differently to get different results. And that's ultimately the woman's choice. Hardly a double standard against women... we say no and then the guy tries to impress us, and thats echoed in almost EVERY animal/bird species on this earth - I feel more sorry for the poor blokes!

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    3. Just to add some perspective running counter to the trend (even though I do believe the "trend" is presented accurately):

      My wife and I did screw each other's brains out on our first night; however, we got married two weeks later (another "opposite of trend" event), and now, after more than forty years are still totally devoted to each other. Ergo; no rule exists without contradiction.

      We even allowed ourselves to be seduced by our talented and attractive next-door neighbors on one occasion (I would have loved to have one or more replays but my wife demurred; ergo, no repeat performance). And now, so many years later, the image of him between her legs and of his cock pleasuring her willing pussy spurs me on to masturbation. Also, the lovely neighbor wife was hot beyond description; a fuck for the ages!!!! Ah, fond memories!!!!

      Now, if you will pardon me, I think I need to go masturbate.

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    4. Yes, I agree. Each situation with each girl and guy is different. After 2 months of online chatting via emails and talking on the phone. I met up with a guy. We had sex on the first date. We did not predict this. I was 51 he was 60. We are both very young and fit and healthy. (I look about 35 -40 he - the same :) Now we are happily married, 5 years after that first date. Not sure if it is age or whatever. We are Australian. Maybe less prudish. Not religious. Not sure. But it all worked out for us. In fact after our first date. He called me constantly afterwards. So sex on the first date made no difference at all for our relationship. :)

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    5. I don't know what to think about this blog... I started reading thinking that I was going to find something I didn't know, but after this post, I'm a little puzzled thinking that I may live in a different world.

      I actually fuck guys on a first date very often, and it's rarely a single night. However, I am careful to let them know that sex is important to me, and that the only thing that trumps my sex drive is safety in whatever way you could imagine it. Fortunately, I'm in a STEM career that pays well, and it is obvious that I'm not looking for anyone to support me financially or to protect me physically. There are obviously plenty of men who make more money than me, but they don't interest me... They are busy and it is hard to get their attention, be sexual or emotional.

      It's worth mentioning that even if I fuck guys on a first date, things turn into something ongoing more often than not. It's true that I am not expecting anyone to marry me. Done that and learned my lesson. In fact, I fucked the father of my children on the first date, and now that we're divorced, we have an amicable relationship. He thinks I'm a honorable person, who sticks to her word, as well as a good mother.

      Many of the other guys end up being friends with me also, and after my attachment to them has ended, they talk to me about work, and even other relationships they have initiated. Yes, some of these flames disappear forever, maybe with lingering feelings that they fucked a whore, but most realize that I have needs exactly like they do; so rather than play games, I tell them what I need, and I feel many respect my position.

      It's probably fair to say that I'm far from being a knockout beauty, but yes, I have some positive physical attributes, and more importantly... I have a very high IQ. Now, I don't know how this pans out with every single man, but I find that being honest and straight forward with the men I pick has served me well. I respect their choices, and I expect the same in return. I don't have to say what I want or don't want twice... It's understood, and there's no need to get into arguments or drama of any sort.

      As to why I am not in a permanent relationship... It's not easy for me to say, but the main reason is sex. As much as men like to say that they can have sex anytime, I find that they wear out with time to the point where things start becoming increasingly difficult. I already went through this process twice, and I'm not willing to give it another try. I am capable of deep love, but I know sexual neglect can drive me mad, and I need my sanity to function properly.

      As things stand now, I prefer not to hold expectations of any sort, but I need to be in egalitarian relationships for them to work. So, all these madonna-whore dichotomies need to be checked at the door before going forwards. Maybe that makes me end up with a certain type of individual, which think differently than Andrew... But who knows...

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    6. It makes me laugh that men want to marry the woman that holds out and then later complain that they don't get any in their marriages. That's a genius policy, don't marry the woman that is sexual, absolute genius. I actually think that is evolution trying to help the woman out; who wants to marry an antiquated, un-evolved, jackass??

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    7. Hi, just wanted to point out that you can end up marrying " the one " just because she knows how to play the game and make you wait for 10 dates before sleeping with you, but be in fact the biggest whore of all and have a very big number of men under her "Loyalty Belt "

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    8. To the Woman who said she is honest/High IQ/High sex drive - it more just sounds like you have taken the male role of things. You are straight forward, honest, from the logic side (left hemisphere), process driven part of the brain. Not a bad thing at all. In fact, many of the men who have more emotive/right brain/female polarity brains are probably looking for a woman like you, and there seem to be quite a few of these men out there.

      As to Elle's objection to the double-standard.

      You have every right to be upset about the standard, but it won't change it. The opposite would be, think of a man that you dated for several months, that you had sex with in many ways, that you did everything you could to please him, and finally, he said "I love you". You had worked and earned his love. It would be satisfying.

      But what if you found out that he had told many, many women that he loved them. In fact, some women, he told them that he loved them and how beautiful they were, and he had just met them and only gone on one date with them... and they didn't even have sex and she didn't do anything for him!!! Or maybe he was drunk. Or maybe she was an ex that still treats him like shit. Or maybe a stranger at the bar that he just met, and he even bought all her drinks that night.

      That's what it feels like. That's what the idea is kind of like. It's a double standard for both sexes when you look at Love and Sex, but when you compare a woman being easy to have sex with to a man does the same with his love, then it's probably more comparable.

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  2. Elle, this is how men think - you should read what he writes. Men tend to think that women who have sex right away have also done so with countless men before them, which probably is the case. A woman who wants to get married someday needs to hold back because many men are turned off by female promiscuity.

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    1. So why are women who are turned off by male promiscuity seen as insecure or psycho? I don't want a guy who's had his dick in every hole from here to Timbuktu, but if I so much as ask a guy about his past "to get some perspective" I'm some kind of emotional nutcase. All this blog has done is convince me that men are pigs, and I never used to think that way.

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    2. Most men are threatened by female promiscuity, that is true. They want an innocent girl that's going to stay home and cook, clean, breed, open the the legs just for them and keep her mouth shut while they put their dick in every hole from here to Timbuktu! Ha ha ha. This blog is very useful because it shows men's true colors. Every girl contemplating marriage should explore this blog thoroughly. I can't understand why many young women are preoccupied with finding a husband. Wife and shit are both 4 letter words, the meaning, one and the same. All I got from marriage was dishes in the sink, tonnes of laundry, verbal abuse, having to neglect myself so that hubby would not feel insecure and depression. I deeply regret getting married, it was the biggest mistake I have ever made. I suppose many of you reading this are going to tell me that not all men are pigs, the trouble is nearly all of them are very capable of playing the nice guy role to perfection. It's a bit like diamonds and cubic zirconias, they look the same and even jewelers have trouble determining which is real and which is not.

      Divorcing my ex was the BEST decision I ever made in my whole life.

      Saving "it" for marriage will only get you dishes in the sink, hubby wearing out remote control and couch while asking what's for dinner and when is it gonna be ready, more laundry and low self esteem! In fact, after two decades of marriage a woman's self esteem will resemble an animal that has been runned over on a busy highway and all that's left are fragments of dried up skin with bits of fur on them!

      A lot of you will think that I am being "bitter", aren't I allowed to feel anger at being treated like shit for 20 years?

      Statistics show that two thirds of divorces are initiated by the woman!

      I believe Andrew is doing young women a great service with this blog because the blog shows men as they really are. Keep up the good work Andrew!!

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    3. Hi, anonymous i am a guy but still i understand your feelings and i respect your emotions the real problem is that "guys are kind of aliens to the "women s world" and the one who try to become nice look cunning and the one who don t try look tyrants as said b4 men don't understand women's heart and women's expectations from a husband and men

      But what can change a man is a self respected and loving women like you who can explain things to men's world what women really need "clearly
      and assertively" may be through this blog or by even writing a book on what really women feel when they are treated in a wrong way and what way they want to be treated and i am sure many men would like to know and make women happy this will help men understand women

      may be iam unable to express what i know but i assure you i understand and respect women s feelings and if you wanna share your feelings online please post your email id on this blog, i can explain the difference in thoughts what men have which look abusing to women s world

      hope we humans could get knowledge about opposite gender b4 we face it practically.

      Note: Everything written is to sort out the differences with opposite genders

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    4. Hi Anonymous, wow, that was an enlightening comment. I have a girlfriend who is extremely happily married, so I guess that goes without saying that it's who you marry that's important. Note to self: Do not marry a guy who treats you like a maid...and don't put up with it.

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    5. "So why are women who are turned off by male promiscuity seen as insecure or psycho? I don't want a guy who's had his dick in every hole from here to Timbuktu, but if I so much as ask a guy about his past "to get some perspective" I'm some kind of emotional nutcase. All this blog has done is convince me that men are pigs, and I never used to think that way."
      ------------------------

      Oh my god. Women these days are so out of touch with biology.

      A man needs a woman to not be a total slut because he doesn't want to be raising someone else's kid. On the other hand, a woman doesn't need a man to be monogamous quite as much because if she's pregnant, she knows for a FACT, 100%, that the child is hers. I hope I don't have to explain why.

      Therefore, when a woman is too judgmental about a man's promiscuity, it is weirder than if a man is judgmental about a woman's promiscuity.

      Men are not pigs. Men are human beings that follow their biology, just as women follow their biology. Believe me, there are PLENTY of female traits that men wish were different. But that's life.

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    6. No, men are not pigs. What you are offended by is different values? If you want a man that values sex more, then just seek out someone celibate. People are born with different levels of hormones and ideas of how their sexual life should be. Men are more promiscuous at this age because their sexual peak is earlier than ours as well. Testosterone waivers different desires than a woman can understand. It's like explaining what pregnancy is like to a man. Or men telling you not to be emotional that time of the month. There are certain things that you are deemed by nature. As for resisting these urges, everyone has different opinions of what they should do. It is not fair to call names based on your own values. Nor is it right to tell the other gender how your would act...after all, you are not a man.

      Personally, I don't care about a man's promiscuity as long as it ends with me. I am not dating male prostitutes. But every woman has her limit on what type of promiscuity is appropriate in her man, same as men do in their woman. People go through phases in their life. I have dated a guy that didn't take girls seriously before me. He treated me differently. What do I care about his previous sexual escapades? He needed the experience...lol

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    7. I don't think you're a psycho. In fact, I feel very much the same way. I want a guy who has a lot of discipline when it comes to his bodily urges. If he can't control himself prior to dating you, what makes you think he can control himself after you're married? My boyfriend is great like that. He has women hitting on him everywhere he goes, but he just gets disgusted by them as he has high standards.

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  3. Don't respond intelligently or anything Elle, we wouldn't want you to actually have to form a coherent argument.

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  4. I think, you forgot one very important fact about female promiscuity: Men don't want to invest in promiscuous women, because they can't be sure that they are really investing in their own offspring. So, promiscuous women are fine for short term fucking, but too risky for longterm relationships.

    Like most aspects of mate selection, this is not a conscious decision, but the result of thousands of years of evolution.

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  5. I'm glad you were able to write this down coherently because this is what I think.... or rather it's instinct?

    i.e. look at this past season of The Bachelorette (usually I'll catch an episode or two in past seasons lol, but I actually watched this one through) many of the guys were ready to leave the show because they had this instinctually run through their heads... All the guys on the show are youthful, good looking, and most financially well off that I would expect they could be pretty promiscuous back in their home towns. However, these guys are looking for a long term relationship now, therefore not looking for promiscuous women per se. The bachelorette has all these guys fawning over her, making out, groping etc. from the start... it's competition now, not love. As the season goes on many of the guys realize they are not as favored as others and question why they are wasting valuable time on a girl that is considering 10 other guys (a promiscuous girl), a few even decide to kick themselves off the show. The guy realizes he has better odds going back to NYC or LA, where ever, and casually hooking up with women less attractive then him while continuing to look for 'The One'... the one who's not promiscuous.

    Now, I'm not agreeing that all men deserve and expect their woman to be pure. A woman should be allowed to do what she wishes with her body, just like men. I think the author makes a good point though that women should consider all outcomes of having sex to readily with any man being considered for more then a hook up.

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  6. I'm saddened by this, but no worries -- I don't mistake the messenger for the message. I know that there are feelings that men harbor, right or wrong. For all the talk of men being "logical", they are actually very emotional.

    However, I would like to point out an error in your argument. You say "Men are built to be sexually promiscuous – or at least, we are built so that we can be sexually promiscuous." If we are talking "built" in terms of evolution, then actually it is WOMAN who are "built" (ie, evolved) to be more sexually promiscuous. See, we have the ability to have multiple orgasms. Men have to wait. Ever wonder why the "gangbang" is so erotic to BOTH men and women? Prob hitting some ancient reward center in men and women.

    I think that what you are trying to say is that "recent" (ie, since agricultural revolution), the idea of women's sexuality being "owned" by men is the norm. This is a cultural norm. Our bodies, however, have a different agenda. To have sex.

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    1. let's assume that your claim that "women are built to be promiscuous" is true.

      but men are built to try to screen that out. after all, men don't want to raise a child that's not his. (dna testing is very new in human evolution, and even now, it's not like you can just pick up a dna test at k-mart.) so the way a man tries to lessen the possibility of raising someone else's kid is by trying to marry women who are less likely to be total sluts.

      by contrast, a pregnant woman KNOWS 100% that her child is HERS. see how that works? sucks to be the guy.

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  7. There is no emotion in this kind of analysis. If a women had sex so easily with you there is no other logical conclusion then that she did the same in the past experiences.

    And, no, you are totally wrong about the woman being the one "build to be promiscuous". None of your arguments take any place in the analysis. You're putting your own opinions as if they were biological defined facts, which they are not, only your own opinion. Don't let your "feelings" fool yourself. It doesn't matter to the world whatever you "feel it isn't right", only what they feel themselves. Take the feelings away and notice that your arguments about multiple orgasms and gangbangs do not suit everyone. No men other than devious people want to participate in sex with someone he's genuinely interested while other men are around. If he doesn't care about you, then it's a different thing, he will use you for sex the way the opportunity presents itself.

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  8. This is suuuuch bullshit. It actually saddens me, because I know that most men are indeed this stupid, narcissistic and superficial. The only thing that having a girl sleep with you on the first date means without a doubt is that she is very attracted to you. It does not mean she is very attracted to every guy she goes out with. Nor that she goes out with every guy that asks. Your value as a man drops immensely from this kind of attitude. You wouldnt want to date that girl who slept with you on the first date? Guess what, if she knew how you really think, she wouldnt want to date you either. And you are losing someone who is in charge of her own sexuality, probably to go for a girl who lies to herself and to others and plays all the dishonest games that keep people from actually connecting.

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    1. I like this. I had sex on a first date, and it was the very first time I had done so and I'm 32. I was very attraccted, yes there was alcohol, but it was exactly what I needed at the time and we had a great time laughingg all night and the next day. i think if he really did like me hell call, if not he won't. but next time I will insist we meet earlier and maybe make him work for it before I sex him again.

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    2. This is all craziness. Each situation with each girl and guy is different. After 2 months of online chatting via emails and talking on the phone. I met up with a guy. We had sex on the first date. We did not predict this. I was 51 he was 60. We are both very young and fit and healthy. (I look about 35 -40 he - the same :) Now we are happily married, 5 years after that first date. Not sure if it is age or whatever. We are Australian. Maybe less prudish. Not religious. Not sure. But it all worked out for us. In fact after our first date. He called me constantly afterwards. So sex on the first date made no difference at all for our relationship. :)

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    3. I agree. This is SUCH bullshit. To me, this is related to the old adage, "I don't want to be a member of any club that wants me to join". If a woman is so attracted to you that she decides the passion is there the first night then that should be a good sign. To determine that she is less than, somehow is ridiculous. Evolve already.

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    4. to all the angry anon women, just deal. come on.

      in GENERAL...

      1.) men like to fuck women as soon as possible. agreed?
      2.) men don't want to marry sluts. we can all agree on that as well, right?
      3.) a woman who fucks a guy on the first date is sluttier than if she hadn't.
      4.) therefore men want to marry her a little bit less.

      it's not that hard to understand. kinda sucks, sure. but there's PLENTY of stuff men wish were different about women as well.

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  9. Came to this post expecting to hate it, but really, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Thanks especially for acknowledging that the "don't fuck on the first date" advice is for girls who are looking for a relationship, not (obviously) girls who are after sexual pleasure.

    I just want to point out that it's not quite as black and white as you make it. I think the advice you're giving is tied up in a very particular kind of dating: Girl and guy don't know each other, meet as strangers (in a bar or at a friend's house or at a wedding or online or...), experience some kind of mutual attraction, and - based on only this initial contact - go on a "first date." In that case - yeah. If I, girl in question, sleep with you, dude in question, on that first date, no, I shouldn't expect that it's going to lead to a relationship. Nor should you.

    But a lot of times that's not the way things are. A lot of times the person you're having a "first date" with is more than a stranger. You don't yet have a romantic history, but you know each other well enough to have other reasons to stay interested beyond shallow physical attraction and first, shaky attempts at connection. In those cases, I'd say it shouldn't change a damn thing how quickly I sleep with you. And in my experience, it doesn't.

    I'm a girl. I've done my fair share of sleeping with guys (who I don't know, or don't know well) on a "first date." In almost all of these situations, I've ended up sleeping with the guy precisely because I found the prospect of sexual pleasure more exciting than the prospect of trying to pursue a relationship with that person. Often, it gets left at that - I don't contact him, he doesn't contact me. Quite a number of times, however, the guy has continued to pursue me. I don't like to play with people's emotions so I've always made it clear at that point that I'm not interested, meaning I can't tell you for sure which of those guys were just into getting laid a few more times, and which were into, maybe, something more. But I will say that guys seem to be way more surprised than I am when instant, often drunken sex doesn't turn out to be the foundation for another date.

    I don't sleep with guys to get them into a relationship. I sleep with them because I enjoy sex. I have just as hard a time saying no to easy sex as any guy I know. And you best believe there are plenty of girls out there like me. It doesn't make me promiscuous. It means that there are some guys I'm interested in only sexually, and some guys I'm interested in as a potential relationship, and some guys I'm not sure about.

    It's helpful to know what goes on in (some) guys' heads. Sure. But a lot of you need to keep more open minds about what goes on in our heads. And realize we're not so crazy different from you. Seriously.

    Final point: Guys need to stop letting themselves off the hook for being willing to fuck anything that moves (this point's been brought up, but needs to be hit home). Yeah, girls have a lot more to lose. But don't assume that a girl is going to be any less disturbed by the fact that you were willing to fuck on the first date. We'd much rather be with a guy who shows that he can control sexual urges because, unless we're kidding ourselves, we know that being in a relationship doesn't keep you from being attracted to other people. We want to know that you're not going to act on those attractions. So show us that you're able to wait for sex just as much as you expect us to.

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    1. "I don't sleep with guys to get them into a relationship. I sleep with them because I enjoy sex. I have just as hard a time saying no to easy sex as any guy I know. And you best believe there are plenty of girls out there like me. It doesn't make me promiscuous. It means that there are some guys I'm interested in only sexually, and some guys I'm interested in as a potential relationship, and some guys I'm not sure about."

      Um...please look up the definition of promiscuous.

      Delete
    2. That's nothing wrong with being interested in somebody just for sex. You're also right that wanting a purely sexual relationship with somebody is completely normal. As long as you don't expect a sexual relationship to evolve into 'something more' later.

      If a meaningful relationship is what you're looking for, show some restraint. A little anticipation will only make the sex that much better when it happens.

      The main problem arises when manipulative women use sex to get a guy's attention then gradually use it more and more as leverage to force a deeper emotional relationship. It's pathetic but some females don't have much to offer.

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    3. I just want to jump in to point out that there is a difference between "leveraging sex to force a deeper emotional relationship" (which is a bad idea) and "waiting to have sex in order to give a man a chance to get to know you first as a person" (which is a good idea).

      I agree with everything you said though.

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    5. Hey "Never Simple" I tend to agree with the initial post but also your comment: If I am interested in a guy on the long run, I will usually hold off a little longer 'cause I am more interested in getting to know him brainwise than sex wise. But if I don't see myself in any kind of relationship, why go through another dinner before getting to the making out session (or more) ....

      But just a thought: don't you guys think that different cultures and people from different countries have a whole other set of so called "rules?"

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    6. According to Male Gaming Theory, if a girl thinks that some men are great for sex but different men are great as Providers during Marriage, she will continue that attitude AFTER she marries the Provider. Why? Because in 2013, there are zero external Negative Incentives against a married woman doing whatever her momentary 'gina tingles shout at her to do. She STILL gets half the Provider's stuff and future income. The reality of having thrown away security doesn't hit until 10-15-20 years later, when her Sexual Market Value is close to zero. That's when she starts blogging about how wonderful Singlehood-ness is!

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  10. "The only thing that having a girl sleep with you on the first date means without a doubt is that she is very attracted to you."

    And it's a safe bet that she does that with every bloke she's "very attracted to".

    Keep that hamster-wheel spinning, dudette.

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    1. I like this post...if a man is so stupid and can't think outside the box let him.........as u said, if a sleep with a guy after couple of dates, it means I was spontaneous and i fancy him a lot and I am curious about him.......he should be flattered rather that think bad of me.....I cannot count times where I turned mens down even if they were attractive......beside my ex long term relationship started with a weekend sex....he oviusly saw more than just sex and saw more than a easy girl!.people should not make assumpition..its always worth it to give it a shot and see what u discover....

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    2. No no no. It is not a safe bet that she does that with every bloke she's "very attracted to." I had not been dating much since my divorce because I'm not very attracted to any of the guys I meet. I finally met one who I was INTENSELY attracted to, respected, liked and would have married if he had been willing. We slept together fairly early for me (after about 7 dates). But that kind of attraction for me has only happened once or twice in my whole life. I am not sleeping around, and won't. The attraction I felt for him was truly exceptional.

      We have since broken up, and I'm turning down all of the rest of the guys I'm meeting.

      I think that making assumptions about about easily a woman would decide to sleep with someone else based on what happens with you or one particular guy is wildly off the mark.

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    3. For women who knows other women and their sexual habits, I can say that a lot of women sleep with a guy on the first date once or twice, but not usually. A lot of women have also had an ONS at SOME point in their life. Which means that a girl going home with a guy on the first date does not indicate she has a high number. Nor does it mean she does it every time.
      Men don't know what most women do. Most of my friends have a number of 2-4 and they have had sex on the first date.

      I don't consider it weird for a man to judge a girl on it though. They have difficulties measuring how promiscuous a girl is. Perhaps they don't share social circles, she seems like a sweet girl, they don't know if she's honest about her number, so how the hell do you know? That's why they try to draw a conclusion from how early sex happens. It's a crap shoot, but it's all they've got.

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    4. >> I can say that a lot of women sleep with a guy on the first date once or twice, but not usually. A lot of women have also had an ONS at SOME point in their life. Which means that a girl going home with a guy on the first date does not indicate she has a high number. Nor does it mean she does it every time. Men don't know what most women do.

      Yes we do. Previous cock-carousel riding means that a wife will break her vows if she stumbles across some guy who's hot enough. And that if the husband starts to become boring and she's unhaaaaapy.... she will start searching for such a studmuffin. Please read the newspapers..

      This is women's biology. In their reptile brain, they want an Alpha guy's semen inside their uterus. Even if they don't consciously know that.

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    5. Yeah we do. But whether we will break marriage vows to go for it is completely another issue. Just like a man can choose whether to cheat on his wife or not. Whether he WANTS to sleep with other women is beside the point - we know that is the case anyway.
      A high number might indicate promiscuity. But that was not what my post was about.
      My advice: find a woman with as few options as yourself.

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  11. I am a female. I actually would say that I turn down 90% of the men I date or even ask me out for sex. Sometimes there is something about a guy that fulfills the emotional attraction need and physical attraction need. I have slept with a guy on the first date. But, I didn't have a orgasm and knew that it wouldn't lead to anything. I will say that if I have a emotional investment in the man I am more likely to enjoy sex in a whole different way.
    I want to point out that there are more single people in the world, sex is not only a human instinct but directly reflects our health. To have sex with someone on a first date because you haven't had sex for a year makes you no slut. If anything the female is satisfying a physical need.
    Men should ask more questions about the reasoning vs. assume we are sluts. Maybe they were a happy accident. I agree with "Never Simple Said" Men, also need to stop thinking with thier dick all the time and start walking the walk that they want from a woman!!! Just saying that a leader always can do what they ask!

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  12. The last time I fucked a guy on the first date was six years ago. And he's still right here next to me. The guy I fucked on a first date prior to this relationship? That one lasted nine years. This blog represents the mindset of ONE particular type of male, and though I concede that you might be the "average" male, there are other types who are more open-minded, have greater depth of character and are not misogynistic to the point of holding women to these kinds of double standards.

    When you talk about fucking on the first date, you don't take into account what lead up to the fucking on the first date. Did they drink too many shots and end up plastered and in the sack? Or did they talk and laugh all night? That difference is crucial. In the former case, yeah, I can see where NEITHER person would feel like investing, but in the former case, it can be the culmination of a fast yet significant bonding.

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    1. Your case is the exception that proves the rule.

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    2. Maybe you just have an unbelievable pussy. Boy, it's tough to give that up.

      I'm such a bastard when I post anon. Oh well...

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    3. Maybe you have that snapper...meaning that pussy is fire and will have a dude coming back..Either that or you know how to toss that thing in bed....

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    4. I agree with your post an dyou are surely not an exception like some one suggested. I fucked my husband(12 years) the first night we met and it did not stop him from treating me with respect! If its meant to be, you could fuck a man an hour after meeting him and will then go on to have a long loving relationshi or you could play hard to get for 2 months, finally give it to him, and have him disappear shortly there after. In my case i have to test drive the car before i invest in it! imagine waiting 2 months to have sex with a guy only to discover what a total bore he is in bed! horror!

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    5. I agree... when I've had sex early, its because there was an extremely strong mutual attraction. I've only ever had sex on the first date once, and I dated that guy for two years before breaking up with him.

      Another time I had sex on the second date, a few years later we were married.

      I've only had 6 sexual partners in my life.. and I'm 28. It's not being easy... it's acting on the passion you're feeling with another person. I guess I have good intuition about guys...

      There are plenty of guys I've been on dates with and didn't sleep with... but it can't be a coincidence that my two exceptions were the two major long term relationships of my life...

      Sally.

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    6. PS You can usually tell when a man adores you. If he does, he won't write you off for having sex too early. He will be thinking about making it happen again.
      Sally.

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    7. My last LTR also started with some sex on the first date & it last over 12 years before I ended things because we just grew apart over time. If there's a strong mutual attraction, both are adults & both agree to it, not a big problem. We had lots of stimulating conversation outside of sex on the first date & mentally connected first. We're still friends today & have respect for each other.

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  13. Just wondering if the same situation applies with sleeping in bed with someone but not 'sleeping' with a man?

    I've known this guy my whole life but haven't seen him for years. He came to my brother and my birthday (twin bro) because they are really good friends. I ended up going back to my brother's friends house (who I grew up with but lost touch until then-we all share the same small hometown but I recently moved back to another city in which they reside) and I slept in his bed. He 'fell asleep on the couch' and came got in bed that morning. Nothing happened. We (as in my group of friends and his group of friends) got up with each other the next weekend and the same situation happened. This time we kissed and he tried to have sex but I told him I wasn't that type of girl (which he's known from the beginning->small hometown) so he just cuddled with me that night. The next morning he opted out of riding with along with everyone to take me home..so it was just him taking me home. Heard nothing for 3 days later and he called at 12:30am to which i returned the next afternoon but nothing after that.

    A week or so later some drama got started by my brother's ex (psycho!) and I got drug into it. She was trying to hurt my brother by saying she was going to my crush's house and told everyone she didn't know how I would feel about it. I called my brother pissed asking my brother why she was saying that and why was everyone asking me bout it...i meant it as "why is she acting childish bringing me into ya'lls shit. handle it because i don't want my personal life out for everyone just because she's trying to get to you" he ("drunkenly") mistook that to mean I was hurt over my crush (my brother and I are close and he knew I was into my crush) and immediately texted his ex and my crush (which I didn't even know he had done until a couple of days later) after I told him not to because that's just what his ex wanted and they both needed to grow up (but if they weren't going to grow up then to leave me out of it). About a week later I called and explained the situation to my crush and he thought my brother was mad and I hated him. He told me he was trying to get up with my brother (my brother changed his number after that) but he wasn't responding and my crush wanted him to know that he would never do that with his ex and his "rule" for dating his friends family is that he always talked to his friends first. He was talking and I spaced out (homeboy talked for like 30 min and I'm not much of a phone person) and on the end was...but i deff find you attractive, no doubt about that. I eventually ended the convo and he left it with saying he would talk to me soon. I sent him a text a couple of days later about the Heels (NC native) and he never replied. (but he still hadn't talke to my brother so I'm not sure if that was because he hadn't talked to bro yet or his doings)

    He saw my brother this past weekend and told him that he would never do anything with his ex and he wouldn't do that with me either without talking to him first...my brother told him that he appreciated it but what we-me and my crush-do is our business (being twins in an extremely small town we've grown immune to the whole "don't date my brother/sister" deal more-so than other siblings). my crush responded by saying well we aren't anything "right now" and my brother responded to that by reiterating what he had told my crush earlier. I'm not sure exactly how the convo went down that's just what my brother said. I asked him what my crush meant by right now and he said he didn't know so I didn't press any further. Still no word from my crush.

    Sorry this is so long but I wanted to give full detail because I can't tell if it's because I came home with him, because of my brother, or neither and he's just not really into me (which is okay I just want to know)?!!

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  14. "Did they drink too many shots and end up plastered and in the sack? Or did they talk and laugh all night?"

    I know plenty of men that will laugh and talk their way through a whole night - convincingly - just to get pussy. And determining whether or not a given guy is deceiving you isn't just a matter of being a good judge of character or reading body language and facial expressions; there really just isn't enough "data" after one night to make a decision about whether or not he'll be there tomorrow.

    I am not saying that there aren't exceptions, of which your case is clearly one. As you point out, this blog represents the average guy, not the outliers. And if a girl wants to take that risk in order to maintain the spontaneity of that first night, she can do that - no one is stopping her. She just shouldn't be surprised when he treats her like a piece of ass afterwards.

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  15. "Just wondering if the same situation applies with sleeping in bed with someone but not 'sleeping' with a man? ... I can't tell if it's because I came home with him, because of my brother, or neither and he's just not really into me (which is okay I just want to know)?!!"

    It is almost definitely NOT about you sleeping with him. This post is only about having sex.

    The brother thing definitely plays into the situation to one extent or another. It might just be a mild influence, it might be a strong one (i.e. one that would prevent him from being willing to date you at all). Your crush has to balance his attraction to you with his friendship with your brother. If you date him and it goes well, you will become more of a friend to your crush than your brother. If you date him and it goes poorly and you break up, your crush runs a high risk of making your brother choose sides in the break up. So your crush has a lot counteracting his attraction to you, which (it seems to me like) would be enough motivation to date you in a "normal" situation.

    I suggest you be a little more liberal about taking the initiative than in other situations. (This is OK because his interest is more difficult to gage in this case since the situation with your brother may be masking it.) Give your crush a couple opportunities to hang out with you one on one. You invite him. Not dates, but casual stuff - grabbing food or hanging out together after some other group activity. If he doesn't respond to those opportunities, stop taking any initiative at all (read the post "Cut Him Off"), and start looking elsewhere.

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  16. Posts like this brother actually make it harder for men and women to connect authentically.

    Some quotes
    "But understand that it will not make you desirable to men."

    If I'm on a date and I can feel the attraction, it would be a huge turn off if the woman beside me shut down artificially just out of worry that it would make her "less desirable" in the long run. Sex isn't something that divides, but actually brings people together when done right.

    "As you point out, this blog represents the average guy, not the outliers."

    Well to be honest the average guy doesn't get much sex on the first date even if he actually wanted to(been there believe me) due to beliefs like this. Have you ever had sex on the first date?
    Runder

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  17. Runder,

    Thanks for your comment, but I still need to disagree with you.

    The average guy wants sex with a lot of women and nothing else from them. The average guy will either deceive women to get this, or else deceive himself about how interested in her he is for the same reason. A lot of guys are really good at both of these too.

    Therefore, women interested in long term relationships need to play defense, part of which is not giving it up until they have some kind of commitment from the guy. I am not basing this post on theory, it is from experience: I have seen far too many good girls walk away from relationships with their heads down, hating men, because they did not play defense. While men are not immune from responsibility, ultimately I think it is the girl's job to protect herself.

    Women can't expect men to curtail their sexual advances (not because men shouldn't do so, but because it is naive to think that they will), so someone needs to make sure they know what to be on the lookout for. This is what I am trying to do.

    Yes, I have banged girls on first dates. But the title of this post is hyperbole. The underlying concept is: "don't give it up until you know what you are getting into - and don't be too sure that you know what you are getting into until you get some kind of commitment from him (i.e. repeated initiative, declaration of you as his girlfriend, etc.)"

    I agree that there are instances where two sincere parties can really hit it off and have great sexual chemistry, and end up having awesome sex and even turn that initial spark into something long term. It happens. (See comment above "The last time I fucked a guy on the first date was six years ago. And he's still right here next to me....").

    However, as a guy, I think it is actually unfair to a woman to be turned off by her inability to trust you after only a first date. She has to protect herself - not against you, but against all the other guys that are making it difficult for honest men. Sucks perhaps, but its true.

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    1. "The average guy will either deceive women to get this, or else deceive himself about how interested in her he is for the same reason"

      Can you elaborate a little on the second part of that sentence? What do you mean exactly by a guy deceiving himself about interest?

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    2. I mean he will not dissect his attraction to her and realize that it is purely (or mostly) sexual. He will proceed as if he is interested in her personally and sexually, when the truth is that he is only really interested in her sexually.

      It would be like deceiving yourself about why you want to eat a big meal at Christmas time or some other holiday, when you are actually trying to diet. While you might tell yourself that you are gorging yourself full of food in order to celebrate the holiday and participate in tradition, the fact is that you are sick of small, unsatisfying meals and want to pig-out. Your body doesn't know it's a holiday though, and gets just as fat as it would otherwise - just like the girl: she doesn't know the guy's attraction is just sexual, and ends up getting fucked over because the guy deceived himself.

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    3. @Andrew - if that's true, then how does a girl EVER know if a man is actually interested in her personally? What if he gets into a committed, exclusive boyfriend/girlfriend relationship with her, has sex with her, and then realizes that the only reason he was actually drawn to her enough to be her boyfriend was sex?

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  18. Why the hate? He's being honest. This is how most men think.

    Perhaps it's unfair, or it hurts you, but that's the nature of the game. Don't hate the player, or the messenger for that matter.

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  19. Just a question:
    You write in the post "a lot of guys are looking for someone to have a serious relationship with"
    And in a reply "The average guy wants sex with a lot of women and nothing else from them"

    Now I wonder how many high quality men are actually looking for relationships, and is this due to age, experience or what? Is it true that a lot of guys want to sleep around through their early/mid twenties, have some wild experiences and possibly check some stuff "off their list" before wanting a relationship? I have been of the impression that if a guy in his early twenties wants a girlfriend, it is often because he has no success with sleeping around and a girlfriend is his best bet for regular sex. He will also not be of the most desirable men. Is this correct?
    I think maybe you said you were going to write a post about what determines whether a man wants a relationship or not. Do you think most men in relationships decides they will be due to a) the girl denying him sex otherwise and b) if he likes the girl, he doesn't want her sleeping with someone else. ?

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    1. You can find guys out there that only want to get married and have sex with no other woman. I know some guys like this, though they are very religious and I doubt they would feel the same way if you removed their moral convictions. I know other guys who are only interested in casual sex and will probably be that way for their whole life. There is a wide spectrum. Both of the statements I made are true. The average (American) guy does want a lot of sex with multiple women, though he also wants to eventually settle down.

      You asked " Is it true that a lot of guys want to sleep around through their early/mid twenties, have some wild experiences and possibly check some stuff "off their list" before wanting a relationship?" The answer is yes.

      "I have been of the impression that if a guy in his early twenties wants a girlfriend, it is often because he has no success with sleeping around and a girlfriend is his best bet for regular sex. He will also not be of the most desirable men. Is this correct?"

      Yes, though as I said above, it can sometimes happen for religious or cultural reasons too. And the relationship isn't always just to secure regular sex.

      "Do you think most men in relationships decides they will be due to a) the girl denying him sex otherwise and b) if he likes the girl, he doesn't want her sleeping with someone else.?"

      No, I think it CAN be for both of those reasons, but it varies from guy to guy. Some men want relationships because they really enjoy the girl's company (and get sex). Some guys will think they sincerely like the girl, but the attraction is just repressed sexuality. Some (though very few) guys feel insecure without a girlfriend, and others do it because it is socially acceptable. It is true for girls too -- think about the reasons girls have for getting involved with guys. For some it is sexual, others it is for an ego boost, others it is for a sense of security, others it is because it is socially acceptable. For most men and women, it is actually some unique combination of these reasons.

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    2. "Some guys will think they sincerely like the girl, but the attraction is just repressed sexuality"

      Do you mean when they haven't had sex yet or also after? If his interest is just repressed sexuality, it might go away after they've slept together. But do you think a man can be so sexually interested in a woman it keeps him wanting to see her, and 'fool' him into thinking they are more compatible than they are?

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    3. I mean when they haven't had sex yet.

      Maybe in extreme cases it is possible to have a guy so sexually interested that he keeps wanting to see the girl, but if that interest doesn't eventually wear off, then I would say it IS "compatibility" - sexual chemisty is often a good indicator of compatibility.

      In any case, more common is the situation in which the initial sexual attraction wears off after one or two times hooking up.

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  20. Ok, thanks for reply. I do have follow-ups though:
    - I read in an article somewhere that most men "reserve" some time to sexual freedom. The explanation was that men needed a couple of years of independence, enjoying having a full time job, income and their own place to live, freedom to meet women and sleep around. If he has higher education, finished studying at 25, he will typically look for a girl for something serious around 28. If he has no education, he'll settle down around 23 or so. This was given as statistical results, not an opinion, and showed that men with law/medicine/business degrees will also dedicate their early twenties to their education and need time enjoy life a bit after. The only exception to the rule were those who met a girl during studies, remained a couple, and got married right after graduation, but according to the study, that group got smaller and smaller. So if a guy has higher education, he will be 'available' later in life.
    I'm just afraid that if a guy has been studying, perhaps had medium success with women during school, but suddenly reaches the age of 27-28 and become much more successful with women, that he enjoys the action so much that it takes time for him to want something serious. I understand that random play and picking up girls has its thrill, do you think that men who "come of age" later than others will also prolong their single life?

    And the factors listed which influenced a man's decision to settle down, were:
    - His single friends have coupled up, and he remains one of the few. Several are either married, engaged or in LTR.
    - He has "been there, done that", and had some random sexual encounters and made it a routine.
    - He feels a bit too old for the single life. When he goes to clubs, he'll be one of the oldest ones.
    A man described that he went to a bar to get a drink and the waitress gave him a table, automatically assuming he was waiting for his wife. He said at THAT moment he realized he was too old to go to a bar and pick up girls.
    I know these are fairly general and that guys are individuals, but do you think there is something to it? I'm obviously here talking about non-religious guys whom have at some point enjoyed casual sex and who also have a decent shot with women, not necessarily players.
    -

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  21. And I can add the reason I'm asking for this is whether there are some external factors you can look for in men that might give an indication of where he stands on relationships etc. I know 27 year old guys with reasonable looks, money etc that have a past of casual sex but are hoping for a girlfriend. Yet I also know others whom have said "marriage - not until I'm 40 at LEAST". Sometimes you're so lucky that they say so - but a lot of the time, not. :-)

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  22. "However, I would like to point out an error in your argument. You say "Men are built to be sexually promiscuous – or at least, we are built so that we can be sexually promiscuous." If we are talking "built" in terms of evolution, then actually it is WOMAN who are "built" (ie, evolved) to be more sexually promiscuous. See, we have the ability to have multiple orgasms. Men have to wait. Ever wonder why the "gangbang" is so erotic to BOTH men and women? Prob hitting some ancient reward center in men and women."


    This is possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read. I feel dumber just for having attempted to comprehend the absurdity of it.

    I love it when females are in denial.

    Also, ladies, there is no such thing as a "double standard" when it comes to sex. You raging feminists pushing for sexual equality have gotten it all wrong. A penis can never equate to a vagina, and vice versa. Get the thought that men and women are sexually equal out of your head. The word you're looking for is complementary, not equality. A man creating millions of sperm cells a day (and thus must get rid of them) can not equate to you dropping one egg per month.

    What's next? Are you going to call "not being able to pee standing up" a double standard?

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  23. I was looking for your post where you say something like "don't go out with a friend who's more than 2 points hotter than you", but couldn't find it, so will put my comment here.

    The question is not exactly about that, but related. I have a very close friend, friend of the family and all, 5 years older than me, whom I often go out with. She is very attractive, although I wouldn't necessarily say more attractive then me, we are similar-looking, yet different. We both have kind of a 'classic' appearance, so I suppose we would be placed in the upper end of the scale, although since men's preference vary, some would prefer her and some me.
    If we go out together, there is a 'double blonde' effect which causes us to get much attention. I think we're more likely to be approached by two guys, as nobody run the risk of being "stuck with the uglier one", to be blunt. If I go out with anyone else, I always get all the attention, and it's the same for her. She's openly told me I am the only friend she has whom gives her 'competition' when meeting men (although she claims not to be competitive).
    The main difference between us is personality-wise. I am more introverted, in daily life I'd say a bit shy, but after a glass of wine, I'm quite chatty. However my friend is not only extroverted, she's very flirtatious. I've even had this confirmed from others who say that she does this thing when she smiles which sends signals to guys that is interested, and perhaps also up for fun. She's had a number of serious boyfriends, but also a great deal of one night stands - her partner count would be around 50 or so. I am in my early twenties, my partner count is 11. It's really not a low number, although around her I feel like a prude. She is currently not looking for a boyfriend, only casual sex. I am not looking for casual sex (the casual I've had in the past have been mostly FWB), preferably a future boyfriend.
    She does not dress provocatively, talk openly about sex or touch guys physically. But I think she somehow sends signals that she is 'available for fun' through her body language or the way she looks at guys. Do you think you (or men in general) usually can pick up these things?

    So there are several problems related to this: firstly, her attitude can make her 'snag' the best guy. I personally think a lot of guys out there are potentially open to a relationship, but are not necessarily looking for it, and in bar/club situation (given that both girls are attractive), they'll put their effort in with the one who is most likely to go home with them. Do you agree?
    Secondly, I feel like her ways affects us both. If I go out with another friend, who's a virgin, we're seen differently. If I go out with her, we're 'two blondes' out clubbing. The final issue: we met two guys at a bar a while ago, and she went home with one of them. I liked 'my' guy, but I felt like HER going home with him added pressure on us and that my guy probably felt like he was 'missing out' as his friend got laid that night, and not him. It's like she's injected casual sex into the evening and it can never really lead anywhere for anyone, if you know what I mean.

    So, I really don't go out much with her anymore. She's complained about it, and thinks it's because I'm jealous and prefer friends who are less attractive than myself. I cannot cut her completely out of my life, she's part of it (in several ways). I hate this, because if I meet a cute guy I REALLY don't want him to be introduced to her. Not that I think she would seduce a boyfriend of mine, but I don't want there to be flirtation there. Do I completely cut her out? Try to be more flirtatious and 'selling myself' as well?

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    1. I think the post you were thinking about is "I Can't Believe I Forgot This One"

      In any case, yes, I think men can and do pick up on the signals your friend gives off. These are mostly given by the eyes and body language (posture especially), and I think in many instances, men pick up on them subconsciously.

      I disagree somewhat that men in bars focus their efforts more on women who look available for sex though. These women might get into more conversations because they are more open to those conversations, but men in many isntances might prefer a quiter girl that they have trouble figuring out how to approach (because she is reserved). None of my guy friends go for the easy girls.

      Delete
    2. You're looking for a serious boyfriend in a bar? The kind of guy you're looking for is NOT there, the same applies for men looking for serious girlfriends.

      After reading your post, it seems you are comparing yourself to your friend, who is a slut. You feel BAD about having a count of 11 to her 50? 11 is way too much already, you are unacceptable to many guys who are looking for marriage (these guys would be serious boyfriends before that, obviously). Go out and ask guys if they would prefer the girl with <=3, 11, or 50 partners for a serious relationship. You and your friend will lose more often than not. We don't like women with high partner counts for serious relationships, she's just more likely to not be satisfied with the relationship.

      It is good that you don't hang with her so much anymore. It is not healthy to compare yourself to a slut when you are looking for a deeper relationship with men.

      If you're still looking for a serious boyfriend, stop going to bars to pick up men. Men/women who go to bars are only looking to bang.

      Delete
  24. I agree with sleeping with a guy on the first date is not a good idea just as I agree that waiting for marriage before sex is the best option. whenever a man decides to give helpful advice to women its always the same story of this is just the way men are and all men think the same, if this is true then men are aware of thier actions and they use and abuse any women they can just for the heck of it,and knowing that women cant handle sex without involving thier emotions or becoming attached men use that to thier advantage. I just refuse to believe that most men are this cruel and coniving, its almost like stealing from a blind person, I do believe that there are some low down men in the world but I hope women reading this realize that thier are a lot of men who may sleep with you because thats all they want to do and at the end of it they didnt think of you in a negative way thats just all they wanted at the time or in some cases they realize they like you for more. sex too soon can go in a lot of different directions. As women we do have to be a step ahead of men and let them continue to believe that we are still these vulnerable creatures they think we are but do know they break way harder than we do when the player card is in our favor.

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  25. Yaaaaaawn. Another article about how it's okay for a guy to sleep around but not for a woman. Ever thought what you men look like when you jump from woman to woman trying to get laid for the night? Like desperate douchebags. Instant turn-off. STI's are indiscriminate, it's not okay for either gender to sleep around. And condoms can and do break.

    In any case, you seem like one of those guys that has a whore complex: it's okay to have sex with the 'slut' but not to marry/have a relationship with her. It's almost sociopathic how you compartmentalise the two.

    In any case, when you sleep with a slut, what does that make you? A slut-fucker. How does that make you any better than her?

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    1. I do compartmentalize, yes. And I do think it is OK to have sex with a girl who isn't willing to filter me out, yes. However, I don't fuck sluts. I don't like them because I assume they have STDs and I am rarely drunk enough to become indifferent to that consideration.

      If I WERE a slut fucker, there would be a significant difference between me and her: by being "easy," she can have her choice of men, most of whom will be more attractive than her but I, as a man, would still need to work to attract her and get her into bed. In fact I would need to prove myself more attractive than the other men she would be willing to sleep with. Easy for her, hard for me.

      This is why men who pull a lot of women are cheered on or even admired/respected. They have to work to get women.

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    2. A good wife is just as likely to catch an STD as a slut even if she was a virgin when she married and faithful after marriage, if the husband fucks around without a condom. In Africa most married women who have HIV have been infected by their husbands.

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    3. You have to be careful because you can get Herpes from someone with no visible sign of it (but virus is still in their body), and then it can be passed on through oral sex. If there's anything that puts me off sleeping around, it's that.

      I had a friend whose ex boyfriend infected her with Chlamydia (they were on and off). Then while she was on antibiotics, he told her he didn't mind getting reinfected so they could have sex again. Euurgh. I don't get why some people are so casual about that stuff. I have never had an STI and would be pretty upset if I did get one.

      Yeah I've made a few mistakes in my time but I don't like how women are still expected to be the condom police. In my experience men will do whatever they can get away with. I haven't come across many men who'll think about putting a condom on without being asked. That disturbs me as well. I hope that the blog author is a responsible guy around women, because two many men aren't. I'm not suggesting women don't have any responsibility as well, it's just something I'm acutely aware of.

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    4. Wait..

      You say men dont want relationships with women who give it up on the first date because they conclude such women are sluts. This lowers the woman's value.

      Then you say you are not a "slut-fucker" because you won't sleep with slutty women for casual sex even. But if the definition YOU are using for being a slut is a woman who sleeps with a man quickly, then aren't ANY women who willingly slept with you on a first date sluts? What's the difference?

      Perhaps you felt you put more effort in to seduce her, and her playing hard to get gave you the impression she is not easy. But what if she plays that game a lot?

      And women work to get laid also. I'm not ugly, but very reserved & shy, so men rarely approach me (get written off as snobby/cold). Even if I wanted a casual lay, it would be hard because I have many of the same mental blocks that shy, "nice guys" have. I'd probably have to settle for someone sub-par, just as you say men do. So women DO make effort to adopt & display seductive personalities & appearances.

      I think you're deceiving yourself if you think you're not a slut also. And while other men may cheer you on, women are judging you also.

      When a man sleeps with a lot of women, it shows he mainly values women as trophies and/or objects for his pleasure. A woman does not want to be valued as such in a relationship. She wants to be valued as a whole human being and she wants signs a man is not all about his own pleasure & needs. Self-control is a good quality in a mate. He also shows a need to be validated by his sexual prowess, which signals an insecurity.

      So a smart woman who values herself will also steer clear of slutty men for relationships. And how do we define slutty for men? In the same way - sleeping with lots of women casually, regardless of effort involved.

      Delete
  26. You have some good points, but you are wrong about STDs. I am a Nursing student and studied infectious diseases, men are equally susceptible to those infections as women are. In some diseases, women have a higher percentage of asymptomatic disease than men, whereas in others is on the contrary. Both men and women may be asymptomatic carriers. HPV can cause warts in both men and women. HIV can kill men and women equally. You are very misinformed here. For your own sake, get a check up and always use condoms!!!!!!!!!!

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    1. I thought that some STDs or STIs could lead to cervical cancer in women, but not in men...

      Delete
    2. HPV can cause cervical cancer in women, but obviously it cannot cause the same cancer in men. However, if a man eats out a woman who has certain strains of HPV, he can contract it in his mouth, which could cause oral cancer like the type that Roger Ebert has. Ebert had to have much of his jaw bone removed and can no longer talk as a result.

      I heard rumors that he used to eat out hookers before he was married. Although that rumor sounds absurd if it is true, that could be how he ended up with oral cancer.

      Also, regarding HIV, although it can kill men and women equally, studies show that women are much more likely than men to contract HIV through unprotected heterosexual sex.

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    3. There is some wrong information here.
      HPV, which is sexually contracted, is related to several types of cancer, as cervical, anal and throat cancer. The two latter occurs with men as well (in fact, more frequently than they do with women).
      HIV naturally has a higher chance of being transmitted from men to women than the other way around, but once both a man and woman have HIV, the effects are worse for men. HIV will quicker develop into AIDS, and he will die faster.
      In every other aspect than muscle strength, men are physically the feeble gender and doesn't respond as well to treatments.

      Delete
  27. You are wrong about STDs. They affect both women and men equally. I am a Nursing student and studied infectious diseases. Please always use a condom!!! I will always emphasize it to patients!! You can get HIV as any woman, just because you are a man does not mean you are not to be infected!

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  28. I'm European (as Americans call it), and most guys I know are much more liberal than this, to the extent that they don't just 'tolerate' women being promiscuous, they genuinely argument for equality in this area as well (particularly Mediterranean and Scandinavian men). I've observed female friends whose promiscuity don't have any effect on their chances for relationships (provided they have other things to bring to the table). I'm known as 'conservative' among people I know. I agree with your post, and I think it is not worth the risk - you can only really gain from postponing the sex a little.

    I agree with the title of the post and I think this is the main point - don't fuck on the first date. However I think this is far more important than delaying the sex further. Of course it benefits the woman to get commitment from the man before having sex, because we do get very attached after intercourse. But if you're from a society where a lot of people have sex as soon as they feel like it (which is the case in many European capitals), you can't really expect someone to make you official before even testing things in bed.
    I wonder if you think it is this way for American men too - the longer you postpone sex, the better - but you lose far more by having sex on the 1st date rather than the 2nd, than you do from doing it the 2nd rather than the 3rd?

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    1. I think wait as long as you can trust them. Some people are never trustworthy. I'm European as well (British) and I know exactly what you're getting at. I know many men, maybe a lot, who want to test things out in bed before making it official. But I don't like to submit to that because it would make me feel vulnerable. The only reason I would, would be if I wasn't very interested in the guy, but that kind of situation isn't preferable to me either. At the same time, I think other people take sex too seriously and I don't like to build up to it as if it's some big event because I don't consider it a big deal.

      But I think you are right to some extent. For me, sex would be in official territory. Kissing wouldn't. Still I meet plenty of men who think they have me snagged as their girlfriend because of a kiss.

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  29. I'm from Poland and I bet that most "serious" guys, i.e. guys who want long-term relationship AND marriage, won't like the high partner count for woman. OTOH, the guys who like short-term relationships or serial LTR without ending them with marriage, may actually prefer "experienced" girl. It's a matter of decision of woman, what type of man they prefer.
    In addition, there is this correlation between ratio of divorces and number of sexual partners for woman - I remember reading (at athol's blog?) the more partners woman had in her life, the more likely she is to be dissatisfied with her partner and getting a divorce.

    As for woman being enraged by the thought we think like that, well, you can continue to live within your fantasy world. Your rage at the fact won't change the basic fact.

    And yes, there are exceptions. I know a pair of people, who made it at the first date, in the parking lot outside of a club and they cohabitate for some 9 years now, with one daughter.

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  30. Unfortunately, the greatest source of this double standard is other women. Most of the men I know will fuck on the first date, we'll even come back to the trough, and we'll tell our friends too. And all the guys in the clique will take turns taking her out, and fucking her, and as long as she's not a pain in the ass, we'll even let her hang with us and we'll enjoy her company too. But we won't usually have a relationship with her, and we'll try to rescue our friends when they do want to become serious. And they painful truth about why we do this is WOMEN.
    Women hate "sluts" to the point in some cases of outright shunning them. And women don't even need any actual proof if this sluttiness, much of the time the shunning will happen because of mere hearsay. And men know that if they date one of these women, he won't be dating any of the other women, and his friends won't be allowed to hang with him anymore. Trust me ladies, we really do listen, and when you use slut or whore to describe a woman, we know that she's ok for a fuck buddy, but not to take out in public.
    Personally, I like slutty girls, they're less uptight about stupid shit, more fun in general, and you have much improved chance of the evening ending in sex. Especially if you treat her with respect. Hell, my wife of 20 years picked me up in a bar, and gave it up on the first date. So this isn't the hard and fast rule, and lots of guys will deny it. but this is the way it is as I see it.

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    1. That first paragraph is disgusting. I pity your wife, you're not marriage material.
      Only good thing about posts like these is to once in a while remind women what kind of assholes are really walking around out there.

      Delete
    2. Ew. How disrespectful. I understand why this double-standard exists but I try not to use the words 'slut' or 'whore' because I'm not interested in shaming any of my own gender, nor do I like the term 'manwhore' because it's gender normative.

      And it cuts both ways. I'm totally turned off by men who bed a lot of women or think they know all their is too know about that intimate stuff.

      Kind of shocking to read this but I understand it to be fairly accurate because I've spent enough time listening in to what men talk about when they think you're out of earshot.

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    3. Ah tired. :/ Sorry for the grammar mistakes!

      Delete
  31. What if the man begins pressuring you intensely for sex before you've had it for the first time and you've only known each other a week or two?

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    Replies
    1. You increase your insistence that you won't sleep with him, and more importantly, you stay away from situations that could lead to that pressure (e.g. being alone with him in his room, on his bed).

      Delete
  32. This post was pretty black and white. I think there's alot more detail involved. But overall I thought it was accurate.

    I especially like the 6th paragraph about double standards. I think both sexes complain about the ones that affect them negatively and take for granted the ones they benefit from. In the end the double standards even themselves out. The advantageous ones offset the negative ones, for both sexes.

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  33. Don’t get me wrong, if I were a woman I would be a little pissed off that sex was less socially acceptable for me than it is for a man. But there are balances to this phenomenon: women have far more opportunities to have sex than men, and thereby are able to have sex with higher quality partners.


    this right here is bs.... telling us that we arent allowed to have sex, and then saying we have more opportunity to.... why even make the statement? it completely cancels itself out and contradicts itself. as a woman, i feel even more reason to be pissed off, never mind the following statement meant to "reason" or "console" such totally bogus logic.


    You won’t find many girls that have had sexual partners uglier than themselves, but you’ll find an endless list of guys that have – in fact, there is a contingent of men that usually only have sex with girls less attractive than themselves. This is a product of the same phenomenon: because men can have low-risk sex, women are far more in-demand for sexual relationships, and therefore have more and better options.


    this is as well totally wrong. every couple i see together, the woman is almost ALWAYS hotter than the guy. thats bc women dont judge or choose their partners with as much emphasis on appearances. and what options are there for us ? oh you mean all the options we arent actually socially allowed to accept? right right.

    A woman is judged negatively for having promiscuous sex because it takes no skill or effort on her part; all that is required is her assent. There will never be a deficit of sexually willing and attractive men from which she can select if she chooses.

    what kind of philosophy is this? certainly not sound. no skill or effort? what kind of terrible sex would this bring about... and no doubt the terrible sex would result in a loss of respect. it takes skill and effort for everyone, man woman, young or old, to have a good sexual experience that is mutual and enjoyable for all. it takes a lot of skill and effort on a womans part to ensure that her needs are met, and hence, that at least within a sexual aspect she is respected by the man she is sleeping with. and again with the "selection" power women apparently have. havent you heard of all the women complaining about there being "no men to choose from?" the men are out there, but we dont want any of them. not to mention, its apparently not socially acceptable for most of us to choose them anyways.

    A woman looking for a man should be taught these things, should consider them, and should understand that having sex too readily will automatically cause men to lose respect for her, and dismiss her as nothing more than a source of easy sex.


    this is just another classic case of mankind wanting to pin the totally contradictory existence of themselves on women. men want sex, but they dont want it to be easy.... they say that women are crazy, that we dont know what we want... but apparently men are the same way. i understand that we want something to work for, both sexes. but this really to me sounds like mens attempt to control the sexual arena, an area that women obviously will always reign in. and they do this by hating the women that are sexually autonomous, that dont wait for invitation, that speak on their desires and expect them to be respected. men think that if women are afraid to be themselves, that they as men will be more readily accepted and in control of the game. and thats all it is.

    ReplyDelete
  34. I need help with a dilemma...

    I went out with this guy I've known for many years last week for the first time romantically and due to a number of factors ended up drunk and in bed with him. No sex happened but still enough happened for my liking. Although he seemed impressed I didn't put out and has expressed interest in seeing me again, I just sense that there is something different..perhaps just in the way he communicates with me compared to before. I'm just very embarrassed and not sure how to redeem myself in his eyes if there is a problem. Half of me thinks I should just forget it and move on but at the same time I do like him and don't want him fading out on me with a bad impression.

    What should I do?

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    Replies
    1. Next time you have the opportunity, mention (casually) that you think you went a little too far - even though it was fun - for the stage of the relationship you are at with him now. Then continue as if it didn't happen.

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    2. Do guys think you're slutty if you give head on the first night? Does that count as sex to men too? Does it turn off men to wanting a relationship with you if you say you don't want to have regular sex but would be okay with giving oral that first night? ... I think this is the mistake I made with the last guy I met.

      Delete
  35. Hi Andrew,
    Appreciate your psote and agree with it. Some women may find it double standeard but experience has shown me that`s how things work out in real life.

    Iam currently in a long distnace relationship. We have dated for 3 months he has done all of the visits to m. We are still not intimate only 2nd base. He has accepted and respected this, but there is a lot of attraction and it is hard for us to restraints ourselfs- He told me he is cool with my decision to wait but hopes it would happen one day. no preassure though.

    He has invited to a 4 day trip to his best friend´s wedding in Florida. The wedding is saturday and we will be spending the next three days mostly on our own. I still want to get to know him slow befoer going to bed with him. In part because in ldr you get to know people slower. But not sure how to achive this, or if I should just not go to Fl. Should I ask to stay in separate rooms. Is it ok to go slowly before intercouse, like 3 rd base and sleep in the same bed or would that be considered a tease. Hoping you answer. thanks a bunch.

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  36. Do men really feel 'rejected' when you turn them down for sex?
    A guy made a serious (physical) move on me and I turned him down. He asked if I found him attractive (I told him yes but that I don't do that). He got silent for the night and a bit 'awkward'. I bumped into him again the next day, he came over and asked how I was, but really kept his distance and is weird around me. I think he's a player so I won't bother with him, but I'm curious if some men genuinely feel rejected when you turn them down for sex, even if it the first time you hang out with them? I'm thinking you surely don't expect first night-sex? Does it mean he's used to easy girls?
    I don't approach/initiate with men and am actually a bit shy, I don't come off as promiscuous.

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    1. In many cases, yes, it will hurt. It hurts more in proportion to how little he cares about you, because this is proportional, in turn, to how much he thinks you should be into him. If you turn him down, it could be a big hit to his ego. Imagine if you talked to a guy in a bar all night, had what you thought was a great conversation, knew he was single, etc. etc. but you thought he was kind of below your league. At the end of the night he asks for your number but then never called. How would you feel? It is the same thing in a way. By turning him down for sex you are saying "I am not attracted to you enough." You say it was because you "don't do that kind of thing" and I am not challenging you on that, but a lot of girls who claim they don't do that kind of thing would do it in a heartbeat for George Cluny, Justin Beiber or Luke Bryan. Men know that your willingness to submit to them for sex is directly related to how attracted you are to them.

      Delete
    2. I guess that makes sense.
      But I personally thought men put women in two categories, those who sleep with guys on the first date and those who don't. That's why girls can be practically offended if a guy goes too far right away.
      Even if I met my celebrity crush - Clive Owen - and he seemed to be into me, I like him enough that I would still hope for him to contact me sometime. I know girls who'd go home with a guy, but refuse sex and hope that a night of chatting will still have him call them.
      Sure some guys will assume "if I was hotter, she'd do me", but it seems a bit strange when girls are usually judged for it? Even this blog seem to have that typical male view - if she sleeps with you on a first date, she does that with everybody. You'd label her "easy", you wouldn't think to yourself that "she made an exception for me because I'm hot". Guys even make fun of girls saying "this is the first time I do this". I've read comments saying so on blogs! Most of my friends have had an ONS once or twice in their life, but don't make it a lifestyle.

      I guess I'm confused by this particular situation because there is no reason I should count myself lucky to be with this guy. I think I could have asked anyone and they'd objectively say I'm more attractive than him - I can usually have my pick in bars. Could be his taste meant that I was less attractive, but he was still attracted enough to go for it?

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    3. "Even this blog seem to have that typical male view - if she sleeps with you on a first date, she does that with everybody. You'd label her "easy", you wouldn't think to yourself that "she made an exception for me because I'm hot"."

      I doubt this is ALWAYS the case - it depends on how much of an ego a guy has!

      "Could be his taste meant that I was less attractive, but he was still attracted enough to go for it?"

      Hard for me to say, not knowing you and him, but it's possible. I suggest that you try to initiate a little bit of intimacy to show him that you aren't opposed to it. If he responds well, then you can start to let him initiate again, but if you did hurt his ego, you'll need to make up for that by showing him that your refusal didn't mean you aren't attracted to him.

      Delete
  37. So let me get this straight - if she doesn't sleep w/him on the first date, it's a horrible blow to his ego and he then backs off bc he thinks that means she's not so into him. If she does sleep w/him on the first date, she comes off as a slut and he backs off bc he's gotten what he wants and his view of her as a longer term prospect has dimmed. Fantastic.

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    Replies
    1. Sort of... except that it is rare that a guy will ever feel so rejected that he stops pursuing you. And I never said it would make him less attracted to you if he feels rejected. The opposite is probably closer to the truth.

      Delete
  38. I'm still quite young so I really appreciate this post. Like many girls today, I've been raised to believe that "if he likes you, it doesn't matter if you have sex right away", which is ridiculous. Or worse yet "you don't want a man who judges you for that". It's painful to see how many girls still believe this, even in their late twenties.

    Do you know guys or have male friends that are complete players and you believe they cannot be changed? As in "that guys will never settle for ONE woman". There are guys, in either their 20s, 30s or 40s who have slept with a LOT of women - they may be businessmen, musicians, half-famous or whatever. Aside from postponing sex, how much should you let a man's reputation/image/first impression work against him? Should you steer clear if he's been around (and you know that for a fact) or be an optimist and think that he just hasn't met the right person yet?

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    1. That is a tough question, and one that I don't entirely have the answer to. Every guy is different, so it isn't always obvious that they CAN'T settle down, or change - but more often than not, your best assumption should be that a guy will stay the way he is.

      That being said, "the way he is" isn't something you can judge just by seeing that he sleeps around or has a temper, etc. You need a much deeper knowledge of the person to determine whether or not they can settle down or calm down, or stop being abusive, etc.

      I know that isn't the answer you were looking for, but unfortuantely I don't think there is a clear-cut answer to that one (like "if a guy has more than 20 partners avoid him because he will be a cheater.").

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  39. Sex on first date is a red flag, not an automatic disqualifier. Yes, it suggests that you probably aren't the first guy she fell quickly for and probably won't be the last. The key word is "suggests." Personally I have slept with a woman on a first date, she said she didn't do this, and yes I believed her (and still do, to this day). If you're a woman, want to sleep with a guy on the first date, and still want him to invest and commit, you'll just have to overcome the "slut" handicap. It's not impossible to overcome, in fact for some it's probably quite easy, but pretending it isn't a handicap is willful ignorance.

    Also just to be clear, not fucking on the first date doesn't mean being completely shy and closed-off is a good idea either. That just sends the impression you aren't interested.

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  40. What about doing other things but not actual intercourse? Like oral sex for instance? Like if you said you only have sex (as in all the way) in committed relationships, but ended up doing other things on a first date, what might then be your chances of a serious relationship with the average guy?

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    1. Why would you want to have oral sex with a guy on a first date? Do you really feel like you know a guy after a few hours together - to the point that you'd be that intimate with him?

      Nothing is impossible. You could still date the guy. I agree with the sentiment of Lad's comment above. BUT, oral will still be a red flag for a guy who is looking for something serious. That being said, if he engages in oral sex with you (i.e. receives it), he probably isn't that interested in dating you seriously to begin with anyway.

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    2. "Why would you want to have oral sex with a guy on a first date?"

      Lol, shit just happens Andrew. Not like it was planned. I had actually never done something like that before with a guy I just met but one thing led to another and :/....I felt really bad after and wish I knew how to redeem myself, but I guess I fucked up. What makes it worse is that it wasn't even an actual date. Shame cuz we had so much in common though. You think if I hold out from now on with him it might help the situation, or he already thinks I'm just a slut at this point? He's been messaging me, but I think that's just because he wants another round... -_-

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    3. I'm a woman and use the following question to decide if I sleep with a guy on a first date or do a ONS:

      Might I want this guy to be my boyfriend someday?

      (A) If the answer is yes, then I try to get to know him better, develop rapport, etc., before I sleep with him. If he sees me as a "person" and not just a P.O.A., then at the very least a friendship is possible if a relationship never gets off the ground, after sleeping with him.

      (B) If the answer is no, then I sleep with him with no expectations of a call back or any relationship.

      (C) If the answer is "I'm not sure" -- I treat him like a guy I want to be my someday-boyfriend until I make a decision.

      (B) really ensures that you only have ONS with or sleep with guys on a first dateS you don't care to have a relationship with and, therefore, won't be hurt if he disappears.

      (A) and (C) ensure that you don't get "red flagged" for being too easy and thereby forfeiting the possibility of being seen as girl-friend material.

      Delete
    4. I guess what I meant was "why would you feel the need to have oral sex on a first date?" But anyway, I think you can redeem the situation by holding out, yes, but I would make sure you tell him this. If things escalate again, say something like "Hey look, I actually like you and don't want to turn this into something purely sexual, so I want to back off a little bit to see where things go before we keep hooking up."

      Delete
  41. The "Anonmyous" woman publishing her selection criteria for ONS is disgusting. Just my take. I am a man, 49 years of age, and I would consider such a woman as "easy" in the worst sense. Indeed, I dumped an otherwise attractive woman (after having been with her for 18 months) after I learned (not from her, she had told me outright lies in this respect) her "history": more than three dozen different penises had been inside her - she had been cheating on her husband (at the break-up, she would confess: once or twice unprotected with a real "casanova", as she would say), had had more than a dozen ONS, and for a while entertained two or three "relationships" in parallel. In sum a NoGo for anything remotely serious.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Are you kidding me? This woman you dumped has done much LESS than the vast majority of men out there, yourself included no doubt. Yet you think SHE'S disgusting? We're supposed to be totally cool with the fact that you've had your penis in 50+ vaginas or we're considered insecure psychos. Men like you make me sick.

      Delete
    2. What the woman you dumped did was the same as what most men do. In fact you did her a favour by dumping her, I know I would not want to be married to someone like you.

      Delete
  42. I have an interesting perspective

    I lost my virginity at 24, I am not a purity ring wearing girl, It was just my choice simply waited in till I felt ready. When topic would come up

    I was surprised by the contrast in reactions I got from Men
    verses women with my male friends I felt like I got more respect,at times more attractive even.

    Women when they found this out, would often treat me like I was sixteen old girl who was naive. They would give me a hard time about and say cruel things.

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  43. Meredith, ignore them, if they carry on being asses ditch them as friends, I didn't do it till i was 20. Even now 8 years on i'm still a bit on the line of get to know the person first. Because i had 3 experiences where i didn't really know the guy and it didn't bode well for me, i felt crappy about it. Personally, if my spirit disagrees i'm not for it. Saved myself a lot of hassle this way. As for your friends, tell them to get lost. It is your body and if you decided to wait till marriage so be it! I'm sure if you'd had double figures or more they'd be the first to call you all names not given.

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  44. I met this guy 3 weeks ago through a friend. I wasn't really looking for anything as I've been single for the last 2 years. Hadn't had a date with anyone or even slept with any guys. I was in an abusive relationship for 12 years prior to that. Anyway, the first night, my friends and i were just dancing and celebrating a friend's bday. Nothing really happened until they all left and it was just the guy and myself. It was already late and he just came to this part of the world not knowing the language and I offered to drop him home. I was a bit drunk to be honest and then he started kissing me and touching me and in that case i was telling him to stop because I said the taxi driver is a bit embarrassed by us. Anyway nothing happened and i dropped him off his place and I went back home. After a few days, he added me on Facebook and said he wanted to see me. I said that's ok, let's meet up but I was also with my friends that night. He looked great and although I was attracted to him, i didn't feel I was good enough for him. He talked about him coming to this part of the world to find work and what his aspirations were and all the adventures he did. I thought, ok this guy is interesting and I feel a connection with him. i just wasn't sure what but yes I was attracted to him. Anyway, my friends left and it was just me and him. We went to the beach and one thing led to another, we just did it there and then. Honestly, it was a weird but nice feeling.

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  45. Never had a ONS in my life as i've only ever been with one guy. anyway, after that, we just sat on the beach, looked at the stars until the sunrise. It was kinda romantic. I told him it's early or late depending how u see it and that I'd like to go home to sleep. While I was walking he said, I wonder where this is heading and i was like, well just get with the flow as i just want us to be happy.

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  46. He insisted to take me home but I said it's ok, I can just take the bus as he leaves near the beach. Anyway, he texted me and said he had a great time and that he would text me again when he woke up. Anyway, for the next couple of days, he had txt me and filled me in with his interviews and what he has been doing and although I liked him, i never initiated calling but just responding when he contacts me. On friday, i went out with a friend and saw him with a male friend. i passed by him and really wanted to go and say hi but then he saw me and looked at me really awkwardly as if he was telling his friend, what the hell is she doing here? I felt a bit disappointed knowing that we were in the same restaurant and he didnt come to say hi to me. Anyway while i was eating, he texted me and said he was with some Portuguese friends and that he was enjoying his dinner and all i said was I know and he gave me a smiley face. We didnt say bye to each other and left it at that. In the morning, I texted him and told him what had happened and he said he did not not acknowledge me as he thought i was the one going to say hi to him instead but then i didnt and just pass him by. anyway he explained what he had done that night and I thought well he could have ignored me and just not bothered. so because he explained everything i felt like I owed him an apology and I said sorry.
    Well the next day, we chat on facebook and he told me that i didnt have to apologise and stuff. I said maybe i just overreacted but i didnt like to not say hi to ppl i know. So we arranged to have dinner on Tuesday and I was really looking forward to it until he told me he had some problems and couldnt come and to arrange to see each other on Thursday. I reminded him about the dinner on thursday but didnt seem to have an answer. Then i went to the place to wait for him and I waited for an hour and he never showed up. the next day, he txt me and told me he was very very sorry. and again on facebook but i never replied. He said he had a migraine and took a sleeping pill and just slept the whole day and night. anyway on that same day, he rang me and explained everything again and i was like ok. he said we can have dinner on sat but then before saying goodbye he told me to just continue to live my life as normal as possible. i said, what makes u think that my life isn't normal?? He just laughed and said ok then. we said our goodbyes and then I never heard from him again. anyway after 3-4 days, not only did we not go for dinner, I just sent him a txt and tried to have a sense of humor and said i hope you are feeling better now and honestly i've never been stood up by anyone. lol.. speak soon. never heard an answer from him. 2 days ago, i went to a club cuz it was ladies night.. i didnt expect that I would see him there but well he was there. we were at arms length of each other but he didnt even come and say hi to me. Funny enough, the gay singer must have sense I was a bit down and dedicated the song 'you're simply the best' to me and i was led on stage and dance with him. anyway, after that I went back to my seat and that guy just went and dance with another girl and was kissing her and whatever then he moved on to another sexy girl and was saying hi and kissing her as well. I dont know but I felt really disgusted. i know I should never have slept with him on the first date but I guess at that moment, I forgotten what intimacy was. i have forgotten that feeling of being loved and hugged etc... If only I have known, I wouldnt have done that. I guess he thinks of me the same as the rest of the girls who just looks for a one night stand. Honestly, it's sad to know someone for 2 weeks and then disappears or totally ignores you. I dont have his fb account anymore as I have deleted him. In fact I have deactivated the whole account due to personal reasons. i guess I would never contact him anymore though I do have his number. anyway, that's my story.

    ReplyDelete
  47. the above 3 comments are from one person... sorry but i typed to much and they wouldnt publish the whole thing

    ReplyDelete
  48. Andrew: STDs

    Certain strains of HPV which cause cervical cancer in women do not cause cervical cancer in men because men don't have a cervix. HOWEVER, certain strains of HPV DO CAUSE PROSTATE CANCER in men, but not in women, who do not have a prostate.

    There is greater chance of M2F transmission of STDs than F2M. However, men are more likely to be symptomatic if infected.

    By far the highest risk of transmission is M2M and lowest risk is F2F. Studies indicate that approximately 8% of 'straight' men engage in occasional M2M sexual encounters - this is in addition to the 1% who are openly Bi, and the 4% who are homosexual. 37% of men total report having at least 1 M2M sexual encounter in their lifetime.

    In terms of STDs there is no real inherent advantage for either gender. And men are definitely the main STD disease vector in the human population.

    Therefore I agree with your assertion that women shouldn't give it up to guys on the first date, maybe never at all actually. Men are the nastiest dirty sluts and will not only fuck just about any woman they can, but also might be plugging Pablo or blowing Billy on the side, even if they are 'straight'. Many women contract STDs from
    M2M--->M2F because men are dirtier than whores.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. SOME men are dirtier than whores. The sad thing about this blog is that Andrew attempts to speak for all men because he claims to be your "average guy." Women don't have to settle for average. Thank God I didn't. There are PLENTY of above-average men out there who will treat you right and be a true partner, unlike the average Andrews of the world. The only reason there are as many Andrews out there now is because women don't hold out for the good guys, and as long as Andrew's piss-poor behavior continues to be rewarded by women who don't know any better, the more Andrews there will be. Please, ladies, don't believe this guy's bullshit. There really are decent men out there. Dump your Andrew in the dirt and go get one!

      Delete
    2. I actually completely agree with this, except I do not attempt to speak for all men; I claim to represent the average only.

      I definitely agree that women shouldn't put up with the way average guys behave, and they should strive for the above-average guys. This blog gives dozens of ways of doing this - one of which is not giving in to his attempts to treat you like a cum receptacle on a first date.

      Delete
  49. Girls, you know this goes both ways, this is a guy writing why not to sleep on the first date if you would like more than just a relationship. Why on earth would you accept and judge a guys promiscuity any different. Really, if you didn't get a chance to know him then you didn't find out if he was after more. So you cheated yourself if you feel that way. Personally a guy that jumps into bed at the first chance he gets isn't exactly my idea of boyfriend material and I'd be (and have been!) foolish to think otherwise. Its not double standards, I accept a guy may feel that way and I am just as right to hold the same opinion on him.

    I don't want a relationship with a easy bloke, and I'd like to know that person before they stick their dick in me. So as far as I can see the women have the power here, the guys are out to impress us, but they find us being easy unattractive. Damn right, its gross if he's bedded triple figures too, I don't want him anywhere near me. Its not unfair - it goes both ways.

    You choose whether you sleep or don't sleep with them first date, but this was written for females (who I know plenty of!) that seem to not grasp that fact and think sex = a relationship. WRONG. Of course relationships may blossom and flourish but personally, like this man also thinks, there is more to it than sex and the chase is part of the fun and excitement, build up the anticipation.

    Courtship is a chemical process too, it doesn't just happen that you fall in love or care for someone over night so its clear that waiting weeds out the guys just in it for one thing.

    Fuck, its good advice, use it to empower yourselves - don't just dismiss it because it doesn't fit in with your romantic idealogical. There is a book - its called "The Game" and it was written as a like a self help book for getting any girl, regardless of leauge.. read that too, learn how guys think if you wanna play them at their own game. we always as females moan and bitch because we never know what the other sex is thinking - but even when they flat out tell you, you disagree! You can have a different opinion from this, but its a worthwhile opinion to take into consideration - because guess what its commonly shared.

    Sluts, girls or guys, tend to not make the best partners, regardless of the sex. It seems to me that men are actually just far wiser to this.

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  50. Fairly accurate from a girls' perspective.

    In my experience if you've /just/ met that night, unless you are only interested in him because he's hot you shouldn't sleep with him. If a guy tries to sleep with me on a first date I tend to assume he's only interested in me for a ONS. Sometimes I say what the hell, but I expect to never hear from him again and don't ask for his number in the morning. A guy tends to lose interest in you for biological reasons. It's not really within his control, he won't think of you any more.. the spark that attracts him to you will be gone. If you're interested in the possibility of a relationship making him wait even a short amount of time seems to negate this effect, though you should not have a set rule of x amount of time - he needs to have no definitive idea of when you'll sleep with him. This will not work if you have a reputation in his social circle for having sex on the first date because then they get all offended you are making him wait. Sucks, but that's the way it is.

    That said, sometimes you can totally get away with it. Usually this is with guys who were long time friends before dating. These people usually actually know who my regular hook ups are and how few of them there actually are (called my "circle" who have much more defined expectations than the typical college hookup, the expectations are spelled out before I have sex rather than trying to do it afterwards when you have no say anymore like a stupid person) and they're usually Scorpios I've had a couple of long term friends hook up with me and then ask to be my exclusive bf after I nudged him with "why aren't we dating."

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  51. Even I will admit that this is all individual. Some guys refuse to date a girl who won't give it up one the first date because they don't want to deal with games or prudes. And each of my cousins' husbands have said that they don't judge women that way and they would have continued being with or seeing them even if they had slept together on the first date. They continued being with them because they liked them and then fell in love with them. If you don't like someone after having sex on the first date, it's because you wouldn't have liked them anyhow.

    I don't advocate having sex before there is a commitment, but there isn't a guarantee either way.

    That being said, I would also agree with being only with someone you can trust as getting an STD from someone can be really, and truly devastating to your health and social life - not only for you but for any children you might have.

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  52. I went out with a guy two days ago. I met him last year and we had been texting/Facebook chatting a bit then but it never led to anything and we never went out. Then just last week, I saw something he put on Facebook and it led to a huge conversation in regards to politics and how alienated we both feel at the uni we go to for various reasons. We talked for hours and he asked me out. When we went out it was just amazing, we went to 3 bars, were out from 8:30 to 2 AM just talking about politics and people and life and our families and everything, we just clicked. I ended up going home with him, I felt really bad about it but I was a bit drunk and hadn't had sex for nearly a year. We didn't have sex but we messed around a good bit. We talked a lot and he said he really liked me, that he found me really interesting, complementing me so much and all this stuff and said that he wanted to see me again. Then right before I left, out of nowhere he said something to the effect of "girls are trouble... I'm scared because I find you really interesting... I need to be anti-social and get my grades up" or something. He hasn't called me since. I feel dumb because it's only been 2 days and he said he had a bunch of papers to write this weekend, but I just feel weird and I feel dumb that I went home with him and that I shouldn't have and I don't know...

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  53. I call BS on this - at least in my case; all the 1st date fucking I've ever done has turned straight away into LTR's - the men get sprung on me - ALL of me; I'm highly selective in chosing my men - so I'm not tossing pussy around like a frisbee - but if there's a man I dig him and he's diggin' me too, I don't waste energy following some script. If I want to give him my goods that first night I do. If not, then nope - I never, ever use sex as a bargaining chip - now that's stupid!

    Stupid is dating a guy, holding out for sex, then feeling used and lame when he splits after he finally gets to the holy grail. Bleh - lame. 9 times out of ten, I find it's usually turned out that those I've played the waiting game with lead nowhere - so if he's a massive pushy pussy hound I have to dangle pussy-carrots out in front of him to keep him interested, then what's the point?

    I can't speak for the men and how they think about women and promiscuity - but seriously - if a woman knows how to pick 'em in the first place and puts that ohh-la-la (the pussy power) on that dude - he's hers...period.

    It has never failed me ;)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Its never failed you?, then how come none of these LTRs materalised into a lifelong partnership.

      Delete
    2. A lot of people are holding out for the right person. If we cannot trust people who haven't been married for 30 years, we shouldn't follow this blog either. Andrew is not in a lifelong partnership, and who knows, maybe he has dismissed girls which could have been perfect, for ridiculous reasons. Maybe he'll never marry, should we discredit the entire blog?
      We take the advice which sounds sensible anyway, even if there is no 'proof' it works.

      I agree with the post, but I don't think it's always that black and white. I think men try to link fucking on the first date up to promiscuity because they have very few ways of finding out how slutty a woman is. In reality, a lot of girls have sex on the first date if they like the guy enough - once or twice in their lives - and don't necessarily have high numbers. It is the case for most of my friends.
      It's a good rule to try and follow, to not fuck on the first date. But if you have, it won't really matter with the right guy. A disturbing number of long-term couples I know had sex the first time they met.

      Delete
    3. Girl has it going on ..

      Delete
  54. I like this post, but I don't know why men never admit that a lot of this is related to jealousy. Men are more sexually jealous than women (territorial, rather than emotionally jealous), and a lot of these feelings are due to men being extremely uncomfortable with the idea of their girl with another man. Since jealousy is such a negative word and most people will do anything to avoid being seen as jealous, it is usually avoided.
    Don't get me wrong - I agree with "don't fuck on the first date" and I agree that a woman who wants a quality husband should try to keep her number down.
    But I wonder if you see - as a man - that the men who are most vocal about "whores" and "sluts" are those that are unsuccessful with women? You mentioned that men with high numbers are more likely to be lenient, but I'm not talking about promiscuity or sexual attitudes, but rather men whom are UNABLE to get laid. They develop anger towards women, and the fact that women (on the whole) not only don't want them, but are sleeping with other men, make things a lot worse.
    I know a lot of guys are angry with feminism because they are still unable to get laid, whereas women can get both quality and quantity without getting judged for it (at least within reason), and the only way to make it 'fair' again, is to try and start the slut shaming. My impression is that to a lot of men, it's not about their personal opinion of a woman's value decreasing, as much as a fight for justice. Surely you have observed this as well?

    This is perhaps more related to sexual history than sex on the first date. Most people know that 'good things don't come easy', so I am sure a man's interest will often decrease after sex on the first date. But in regards to number count - my observation is that most men care very little when they are very interested in a woman.

    Again, I agree that promiscuity is an evil for women. Point is, I like the blog because it's not so 'politically correct', and I wish for it to be as honest as possible, because sometimes it seems to blame women a little too much.

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  55. As a girl (I'm 22) that isn't promiscuous this article is understandable. Many females do not understand thar a man will not marry a slut. Although I'm not saying that it doesn't work both ways. If a guy tries to fuck me on a first date, I instantly become uninterested. Just like said above, if he's doing this this early with me how many others has he done this with and succeeded. That thought then leads me to wonder if his goods are clean or not. I want a man that's not a whore just like a man doesn't want a slut.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree. A while ago I started dating a man that had quite a sexual history although he didn't tell me right away. I appreciated his honesty however the revelation changed the entire dynamic of the relationship.

      Delete
  56. Do you have any suggestions on how to handle those situation where you want to ensure that he is dating you for the right reasons without discouraging him?
    I have always practiced this rule that I don't pick up if a guy calls too late. If it's past midnight, especially on a Friday/Saturday, I usually ignore it.
    But do you suggest waiting for a new initiative or texting back at an appropriate time the next day?
    If you've been to dinner a few times and want to keep the dinners going, not just 'hang out'. Can I "hint" in that direction? Do guys actually pick up at hints at all? I still wait for his initiatives 2 months into dating, and am sensing it's discouraging him a bit.

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  57. This topic is very relevant to me right now. I am a guy who has been only in a handful of serious long term relationship for the past 17 years. I had was affected by some sort of complex feeling that it was disrespectful on my part to try to approach women physically at early stages, not just the first date, but perhaps the first few. Only later I realized that most of them got offended or felt insecure and unwanted just because I was so disciplined to control my natural impulses.
    Those experiences scarred me to the point that I learned the hard lesson and at the next dating opportunities I became very proceptive. One day I met a woman, who must have found me as sexually attractive as I found her. I did not have any long term interest in her and that made it easier for me to be assertive and thinking that it would be just fun.
    It was a totally new and intense experience overall but not very much fun sexually. Indeed sexually was kind of a let down perhaps because I think great sex requires knowing eachother well physically and it may take a bit more time and interest. But to my surprise the whole sleeping together experience (I barely slept that night while she did soundly) made me emotionally incredibly vulnerable. I could not believe I could get so easily attached to a woman so quickly, basically in a matter of hours. The next day we kissed and she left. For a couple of days we exchanged some communications as if everything was going normally until she completely stopped responding and I never saw her again. I was crushed and it took me a few weeks to fully recover emotionally. This experience made me realize how vulnerable I was and how my perspective must have been very close to a woman perspective in the same situation. I realized also how lucky I was that she disappeared like that because I rationally knew she was not good news for me but I would not have easily escaped the emotional hijacking created that night.
    It made me ponder on the fundamental reasons behind the conventional wisdom of all the traditional taboos surrounding sexuality. Is it possible that someone at some point realized how easy (and perhaps socially and ethically despicable) would be for a woman to use sex as a tool to get the partner she wants? If there was not such a taboo and stigmatizing of certain women on the men's part is it possible that women would have too much selective power over men tipping the balance required to have the best mating strategies for our species?
    I am not trying to push any agenda or be judgemental here on one side or another, I am just trying to increase my understanding of what happened to me and the mechanisms at play behind the scenes of evolutionary biology and the criteria behind some rooted rules of social acceptance.

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  58. I just met a guy about a week ago at my part-time job (retail) and he was very flirtatious at the time as I assisted him with picking out an outfit; we exchanged phone numbers; went out two days later; (1st Date) and invited him to my home for dinner; he THEN noticed my body when I took off my jacket and to his surprise I am built like a damn coke bottle; he claims he didn’t noticed prior (at work) because of the type of clothing that I had on; but he claims at that point he became extremely sexually attracted to me; Night 3- (2nd Date) we meet up again and he comes over and we spends the night- we DID NOT have sex; however, we got very close to it and stopped. Well a couple nights later we hang out again, Concert, club and back to my house (3rd Date)- He claims that he initiated the touching and feeling and once again I stopped him; so the next morning he wakes up with an attitude and leaves! So, he later states that his frustration is that we talk or exchange sexual innuendo, we do the touching and feeling but when it gets to that point I always (2 times) stop him. I asked him what were his intentions in my regard; do you desire to just have sex with me or do you desire something more? He said he didn’t know; and that couldn’t be determined in a week- and that we needed to stop talking dirty, flirting etc if I wasn’t prepared to have sex with him. Haha! Wow…
    So my thoughts are I am not in the business of having sex on the first date; nor am I simply looking for a sex partner (I have plenty of those) I desire to have something more than that.. Am I wrong for making him wait? Or should I just move on?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nope, I think you are right to make him wait. Otherwise he is liable to nail you then move on. If he moves on because you won't have sex with him, he isn't worth your time anyway, so it isn't really a loss.

      Delete
    2. doesn't it also makes sense that if he moves on because you WILL have sex with him then he isn't worth her time also?

      Delete
    3. Not necessarily. If he moves on because he thinks she is a slut, I think he is justified in doing so. Men want women who will be faithful to them someday, and if she acts promiscuously now, it isn't unreasonable to assume that she will be less inclined to be faithful someday. And even if she isn't inclined to cheat once she commits, men don't want to know that dozens of other men have fucked their wife. That is humiliating. We want to know that we were - at least to SOME degree - an exception for her, someone she valued more than other men, and was willing to give herself sexually to.

      Now, all this is to say that when a girl gives sex easily to a guy, he will suspect that she is giving sex easily to other guys too. In other words, they will assume she is a slut. We know that women who fuck on the first date don't know enough about us to REALLY know that we are something special. Anyway, this assumption (founded or not) that she is a slut undermines the above-described desire to have "won" her intimacy.

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    4. Any man who is past the age of 16 and still sees women within the confining binary of madonna/whore. .eg "slutty". .is definitely not a guy I would want to waste time with. . how pedestrain to think in such terms!

      Delete
  59. I met my husband as a one night stand but it turned out that we actually lived across the road from each other and we were together for 16 years. My philisophy was then (and is now) that if I want to screw him on the first date - I will - and if he can't or won't deal - his loss. I don't need or want a guy who judges me badly against his own - same behaviour. In all my relationships I have had sex pretty quickly, I have never held back to be thought of as 'gf/wife' material. Who wants a 'good girl' anyhow? ppffttt.

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  60. Interesting. I turn down many more than I accept, and when I turn them down, I have no future interest in them. But once in a blue moon along comes a guy that I think is amazing and we have sex by our second meeting. In my case I have actually reserved myself for someone I feel is really great and I'm not crazy about playing the "rules" and making him wait. I've never been dumped after a sexual encounter, so maybe I've just got good taste. But what you are saying is in general men wouldn't assume I've been discerning. Food for thought.

    i've heard the slut tag isn't as problematic if she's higher on the beauty scale, what are your thoughts on this?

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    Replies
    1. This might be true but only in the sense that neither is the "idiot" or "boring" tag as problematic. It'd be like saying a man's "whimp" or "asshole" tag isn't as problematic if he makes a ton of money. It might be true, but it doesn't mean he is any less of a whimp or asshole, it just means those negatives are dwarfed by a bigger positive. Likewise, she might be just as much of a slut, but her attractiveness drawn attention away from that fact.

      Delete
  61. Oh. . absolutely. . i'm not saying to jump into bed with any willing guy - far from it. I just think that if I want to then I will or rather that I won't say 'no' just to entice him to see me again.

    Beauty is important to guys but as we all know, it's not everything (ever seen the film 'Too beautiful for you"?) - chemistry has to be there and I think guys actually like a woman who knows her own mind/body and isn't interested in playing games. There is always a 2-step to the building of a relationship, if he doesn't call for 2 days then you don't answer for another 2 - and yes, this is a game but that is about showing that you demand respect which is a slightly different thing (I think). My feeling is and has always been, if you can't handle my sexual desires, if they threaten or intimidate you in any way or, you are inclined to judge me on them then .. I am not interested in spending any long time with you - it doesn't always work but the guys that judge are narrow minded and tedious and looking for something I have no interest in being. :)

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  62. Also, my ex .. the one I was with for 16 years - he left his 'nice' fiance of 2 years in less than 7 days to be with me. Destiny/fate/attraction don't play bt the rules I guess :)

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  63. Beside religion, I think sex is also about different cultures in different countries. Especially for mostly Asian people who still stick with sex after marriage. This is the big problem when Asian people fall in love with non Asians or non Asians fall in love with Asians. So I think there must be deep understanding to wait until marriage or the relationship will never work. Any thought how to make it works ?

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  64. This whole post is stupid! My fiance whom I'm been with for three years may not agree with you on this.You see, I meet him in a club when I was on vacation, and he went down on me that first night we met. If your idea of sex is the same as mine then yes I'd say we fucked on the first date although it wasn't actually a date. The guy I was with before that, well I waited months before I had sex with him and he still screwed me over in the end.

    Also my girlfriend met her husband when she was a guess at his restaurant and they fucked in the bathroom stall the first time they met. Now they are happily married and they just recently had a baby. And this is a true story. So I really don't get the point you're trying to make here in this post. I'm confused, and if I didn't know any better, I would say it was the classic pot calling the kettle black. Because it's only a guy who sleeps around a lot or is probably insecure or has a huge ego would say that a woman losses value when she fucks on the first date.

    To be honest, I really don't think you're fit to give women advice. So please don't quit your day job.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So because it didn't apply in two situations, it MUST be wrong.

      Delete
    2. BINGO! And and that was just only 2 situations, I can think of at least half a dozen.

      Delete
    3. Congrats for having a group of promiscuous friends that marry easy women! People have written books in agreement with Andrew's logic, not yours. But it is because most women want to have men with standards and vice versa. Not all of us are okay with fucking a guy in the bathroom stall to start a relationship. It is not a mature start to a relationship, even for those that it works out for. Maybe your friends are all superficial enough to be happy with a marriage based on sex alone?

      Really? Your criticism is hilarious. Maybe you should start a blog. Tell women to go to clubs and spread their legs for oral sex with any guy...one of them will surely be their husband. Bingo!

      Delete
  65. Oxytocin, the bonding hormone. It clouds women's objectivity when assessing a partner's worth. I blame that. It takes awhile to get to know a person. If you sleep with them and you liked it, you fall in love with them whether they have any character or not. That's when you get attached to players and a-holes and shitty situations. The fact we want sex, and then get attached to the sex object, is what leads women into settling for losers. Chemicals.

    ReplyDelete
  66. I wonder now, If a girl lets a man to eat her out on a first date but doesn't fuck him is she still considered to be a slut in his eyes?
    See I am one of those girls who genuinely love sex, however I am quite aware that I am an emotionally needy hypochondriac and therefore I don't give up to a man easily. Ive been called a tease so many times by so many men that I don't really know if I should stay this way. I never had a one night stand but I had plenty of players trying to get into my pants who just simply wouldn't take me seriously no matter for how long they stick around...

    ReplyDelete
  67. What is your view on girls who make out with guys that are just friends. The guys know the girl won't sleep with them, but like to make out for fun anyway. Will the guys see her the like what you talk about in this post? Or do guys only feel this way when it comes to sex?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good question. Kissing - at least in the US - is far more casual and not as much of a big deal. Maybe if you are very young (teens) kissing might be a little more serious; but in your twenties, it isn't going to earn you a label as "Easy" or earn his disrespect.

      That being said, there is another good reason not to run around making out with tons of dudes: one of the two of you is bound to like the other more, and will want to turn "just kissing" into dating or a relationship, so someone will always end up hurt.

      Delete
  68. Me and this guy (let's call him josh) have been messing around; making out, feeling each other up, just having fun, but never sex. The furthest we got was hand jobs. We arent "together" but he acts interested in me. When we aren't around each other, he messages me and stuff. I usually am pretty good at determining whether a guy likes me or not, and I was thinking that he did...until something weird happend. Me and josh went to his house, it was the first time I've bet been there. On the way there he said he hoped his brother wasn't there. Well he was. He left soon after me and josh got there. Well me and josh messed around for an hour or two and then we left. In the car, he asked me why I didn't have a bf...typically, in my experiences, this is a sign he likes me or wants to ask me out. Well that night he texted me saying that his brother "thought I was cute, and he wanted my number to talk to me or possibly date me." and then proceeded to ask me of I wanted to text him. I've known josh for about six years but we just recently started actually talking. While we were making out, he said If I were to have sex with him, he would probably ask me to be his gf. Well I didn't have sex cause we're just friends and I'm not that kind of girl, I want it to actually mean something. Also, after he asked me why I didn't have a bf, I asked why he didn't have a gf. He said he had trusting issues. He was cheated on before and now it's hard to trust. I can't say I have feelings for him, but im just confused about it all. Most guys, if they liked a girl, wouldn't tell them that and ask if they wanted to talk to their brother..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This was the first time I met his brother.

      Delete
    2. My opinion is u already tasted "josh" it would be so disturbing u dating the brother I think is a test

      Delete
  69. I'm so frustrated so I really like this guy we had a blind date like 7 months ago I did not work months later on a party I saw hin we started talking and we agreed tl go out it didnt happened so later I found out he was my friends new roomate and on a get together we met again we talked all night I got really really waisted so I slept with him... then it happened a second time again I was drunk .... he hasn't call me or anything do u think I still have a chance of something serious

    ReplyDelete
  70. It is logically impossible for women on average, to have fewer partners than men...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/weekinreview/12kolata.html?_r=0

    It will always be a 50/50 split (on average). It's common for women to be promiscuous, realize that it's a wrong strategy and then smarten up before giving up the goods.

    If female readers of this blog heed Andrew's advice, then there will be plenty of men who will commit to these "reformed women of virtue". I think lots of girls don't reveal their full sexual history, so it's not as easy as men think to distinguish between a slut and a non slut. And mathematically speaking, there is no demarcation between the two.

    There's also difference between sleeping with 10 different men on a first date (slut) and having 10 different boyfriends over a period of 10 years (not a slut). But of course, this is often irrelevant to men.

    That's why men don't need to know all the details. They are happier deluded in believing you are "pure(ish)". And women shouldn't feel bad that they aren't being honest because in reality, it is a harsh double standard that won't go away.

    I'm one of the "reformed" ones, but hee, hee... you would never know....

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "There's also difference between sleeping with 10 different men on a first date (slut) and having 10 different boyfriends over a period of 10 years (not a slut). But of course, this is often irrelevant to men."

      NOTE: "sleeping with 10 different men on a first date"

      What kind of logic is that? Comparing the period that the slut takes to do 10 one night stands to ten non-slut years?

      I guess that it will take the slut about 50 days to do 10 one night stands, probably less. Now, guess how many dudes that same slut will degrade herself with in ten years.

      Delete
  71. So ideally speaking, a woman should wait until a man has declared exclusivity before sleeping with him. It is the safest thing for her to do, although I don't know anyone who has practiced it, and I am sure you know most young people don't do that today (otherwise I assume you wouldn't have created the post "Don't fuck on the first date" - urging women to wait at least beyond that).
    I slept with this guy around the 5th date. I felt very sure of his interest and couldn't wait any longer. But we haven't discussed exclusivity (or I haven't brought it up).
    What are the 'rules' along the way when you're, as in this situation, dating someone? Right now I haven't heard from him in 8 days. Another guy has asked me out for a drink tomorrow night. I will not kiss or get intimate with anyone as long as things are open with the other guy, but I do find it unfair if I am forced to sit and wait inside when a man doesn't get back to me in over a week.
    Is it okay to go and get a drink with another guy in a situation like that?

    ReplyDelete
  72. OF COURSE its okay to get a drink with the other guy. You should. Frankly, a week is kinda a long time to not be in touch, especially since you have just stared to get intimate. Frankly, I would not be surprised if the guy you slept with is seeing other people too. I don't mean to scare you, it just seems that if he is not contacting for a week he is not signalling to you that he is trying to be exclusive. You should look out for you. Go out with this new guy and try to genuinely have a good time.If you really like the other guy you might want to tell him (when he contacts you) that you like him and you would like to become exclusive. If he says no, then tell him that that's fine but you don't want to have sex with someone who does not want to commit in an exclusive relationship. So you can continue dating but not have sex again until he commits.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah, go for the drink. A week is way too long. If he was serious about you, you'd have heard from him within a couple days, barring extreme circumstances.

      Delete
    2. I should add that we've slept together many times, and have been actively going out for around 3 months. I always let him initiate contact, and he asks me out to dinner etc. He fulfills all of the 'green flags', i.e. the opposite of the red flags you posted.
      I don't know what this is about - maybe he simply changed his mind or suddenly met someone also.

      In a situation where a guy has been silent for too long and then gets back to you - what to you suggest the response should be? It has happened before and it may happen again and I feel like I sometimes come across as an angry bitch, but at the same time am in the right to express my discontent. Would you go as simple as "I'm really disappointed I haven't heard from you in a week and I don't want a half-assed relationship"?

      Delete
    3. *someone else

      Delete
    4. Dear anonymous: If you have been actively going out together for three months and you never ever show some initiative, my guess is that he has gotten bored with you and don't think you are very interested after all, that is what my male friends tells me. They are fine initiating but when the woman never shows any initiative efter after they have been going out for quite a while, they assume that she is not all that into them. And they move on to someone else.
      Ann

      Delete
    5. This is why I'm torn on the subject/post "Don't initiate contact". I do think I have lost some good men following that rule.

      Delete
  73. Chicks that give it up on the first date, slut is a harsh word but think about it, a chick opens her legs and anyone would jump in there ANYONE don't have to work at it, buy any drinks, take out for tea... don't have to do anything, anyone would jump in there... , a man could whip out his dick that doesn't guarantee him anything 9 times out of 10 probably get called a slut or pervert... but girls think its the same somehow. cant you see the difference?

    ReplyDelete
  74. I have a problem. I'm REALLY REALLY slutty. How do I stop? I just love to fuck but I also want to find love.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Call me ;)

      No, I'm kidding, but I get the impression you are too. I suggest getting a boyfriend or a really good vibrator.

      Delete
    2. I wasn't kidding at all but thanks anyway. I do have the jackrabbit and it hits all the spots but it's not the same as a real cock. There's no hope for me I guess. I like fucking around too much.

      Delete
    3. You're watching way too much Sex and the City.

      Delete
    4. haha jack rabbit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqg_ceFM30I

      Delete
    5. "Das dee mechanical jackrabbit for da clit" (2:29)

      Awesome.

      Delete
  75. Glad I came across this posting. I've been single almost 2 years. Prior to that, I had been in an 8 year relationship. My child and job kept me busy and when I had sexual urges, I'd just whip out the old dildo and get to work. I'm approached a lot but haven't had that spark/chemistry until recently. I could "get-off" but I missed the touch of a man. This guy intrigued me so much mentally that I had an immediate sexual attraction to him so I prolonged our first encounter because I knew I would want to jump his bones (we met online). I met other guys online but it was always in a public place and we always left separately. But this guy.....I met him at his house (thank goodness I am alive)...he cooked for me and everything. When he hugged me and started kissin me, I didn't want to stop. It had been so long since being touched like that. He asked if it was ok and if I wanted to. Long story short, we screwed all night. He's called me everyday and we've seen each other at least 6 times in the last 2 weeks. However, I still have this thing in my head of what he thinks of me sleeping with him the first night because so many people say this is a big NO NO. Also, guys won't actually tell you what they really think about u. The sexual chemistry is great but I don't know if I've ruined my chances of being a potential mate. How do you KNOW what category you've fallen into with a guy? I could ask him...but then I don't want to appear as if I'm forcing a relationship on him and if it is just sex I don't feel he will actually tell me. Darn it! I hate all these rules and mind games.........

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  76. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  77. Hey Andrew, I actually slept with a guy acquaintance on the first date. We had been talking more and more when we saw each other at university. He just texted me to take me out to a movie. I got a little flirty on drinks thereafter, and I guess I took up his offer because I didn't see a future.

    He actually treated me like a boyfriend thereafter, cuddled the whole night and morning. I sort of pushed him away that night by telling him that he wasn't my type long-term (in a nice way), so he never called me next morning. But we continued to be friends. He came out to my birthday with my friends, whom he doesn't know. And then, I sort of asked if he wanted to hang out. So, we are going out next week, a month after this all happened.

    What should I make of this? I know that I screwed up. I just didn't think that I would want to be in a relationship with him. Now, I am not sure. He seems to be excited about going out with me again. But now I don't know what his motives are? He was my first, and he knows it.

    ReplyDelete
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  79. I met a guy (who goes to my university) at a bar, had sex with him and he added me on facebook the next day, tried talking to me a bunch of times and even asked me to go for coffee that weekend. I said no and that I was just looking for fun. The tables can be turned...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. True. I also think that some women might go below their league if they're only looking for fun. I know I have. I wouldn't say there was anything wrong with those guys (I would never think such a thing) but the only reason I knew I could get away with sleeping with them without developing feelings was because I knew that I'd factored them out as relationship potential. I don't sleep around any more because I thought to myself, "Why am I doing something so intimate with people I don't respect as much?".

      I too have come across men who act as if they can shag with no feelings but actually suppress that instinct just as much as some women do. Contrary to what some people say, not all men have the desire or are able to have no-strings-attached sex with a stranger. I don't believe the argument that men are necessarily more promiscuous than women. And they can be taken for fools as well. I have girlfriends who've slept with men who clearly wanted more but have just pulled out the right words to get them into bed.

      Casual sex though is poor alternative to sex with someone who really loves you and I think it works that way for both men and women. Personally I'm turned off by men who are more promiscuous as relationship partners. I know I sound like a hypocrite but I had to sleep with enough of them to make sense of the type of men who want to sow their wild oats - and really they are the men who are, more often than not, the least emotionally available: serial cheaters, losers, and narcissists. At the same time, I was having casual sex because I wasn't emotionally available and wanted to get my rocks off without the hassle of a relationship. I don't blame the men around me for being turned off by that. Men aren't just turned off for the 'slutty' aspect but because they can sense insecurity issues in a woman who puts out that much. Men are more intuitive than we give them credit for.

      So I've learnt a lot from my slightly messed-up past. To advise anyone else: not having sex on the first date is just about being strong in your convictions. The men who are players can sniff out women who aren't or can be easily persuaded otherwise. Have some integrity and make sure that your words match your actions. As Andrew said elsewhere on this blog, if self-control isn't something you have developed yet, it's best to avoid situations which enable something to happen.If you set general ground rules, then you're less likely to be swayed by specific circumstances. Most men truly interested in a woman would not move as quickly as the first date.

      Another big warning to anyone who doesn't already know - definitely avoid the men who talks themselves up. They are always bad news, and that trait is pretty magnified by players. Not sure if there is a post on players but would love to read some more tips on how to filter men properly. A lot of the time I've fallen at the first hurdle by picking the wrong men - and then it doesn't really matter what I do in the relationship because it was never meant to be.

      Delete
  80. To say all males are "players" looking for sex and all females are prudish and careful is like saying all Black people commit crimes or all White people are executives.

    Sure, as a tendency, men TEND to be more pernicious. But I think a sizable minority of both populations display the opposite tendency.

    ReplyDelete
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  83. Happily, less and less men possess this puritanical and outdated mindset. I had sex with my husband on our first date and we've been together ever since. (12 years) But then again my husband isn't a knuckle-dragging caveman with archaic beliefs and gender double standards.

    When I was single and dating, I was always in control of when I had sex. First date, second date, third date, or maybe never. It was my call, along with the man's.

    Someone else's judgment of my actions was *their* issue, not mine. If a man was fine with pulling down his pants and Fing me on a first date then he turned around and harshly JUDGED ME for reciprocating, then he was a hypocritical douche bag and I didn't want to date him long term anyway. I had no time for idealistic little boys.

    That's why my husband won the prize and he's still getting the juicy stuff as much as he wants it and how ever he wants it. He's a cool guy and not some asshat who cart blanche judges women for being in control of their sexuality.

    Grow up, men. Just because she has sex with you on the first date doesn't mean she does it with everyone. If you really like her and you can't handle first date sex, then grow a pair and YOU be the one to hold back.

    ReplyDelete
  84. "It is a matter of quality versus quantity, and I think there is a lot to be said for both, to the point that I am not convinced that either one is an advantage – they are just corollaries of the same phenomenon."

    The idea that this is fair for both sexes is only true for the lower leagues. If a woman is of a higher league, say a 9 or a 10, there will be hardly any men above her league to enjoy, even for a fling. The men IN her league have options, they can also fuck around without consequences (or so it seems). It is very hard to make the men in her league settle down when they have options, and there are very few she'll find it worth it having casual sex with, and even if she did she will (according to you) be judged for it.
    So no, these are not corollaries of the same phenomenon. A higher league man will, even according to your estimates, have huge advantages over a higher league woman. This is why women get upset over this double standard. Naturally this especially concerns top tier women, who feel like their only option to avoid men who won't commit or high status men who's going to cheat, is to settle for someone below their league, which means they are not advantaged at all.

    I don't disagree with the logic behind the argument of a sexual double standard. I'm just saying it's false to claim that it isn't leaving a many women at disadvantage, and that they do in fact have a reason to be upset.

    ReplyDelete
  85. I completely agree that you shouldn't have sex on the first date. However, in response to the rest of your post, this - "A woman is judged negatively for having promiscuous sex because it takes no skill or effort on her part; all that is required is her assent. There will never be a deficit of sexually willing and attractive men from which she can select if she chooses. A man, on the other hand, has to be highly gifted or skilled in order to get women of his own caliber into bed." - is COMPLETELY not true. It's not like all the men in the world are just waiting for a woman to give her little nod of approval and she can have whoever she wants. It's also not true that men have to set out on some treacherous and near-impossible quest just to have a shot at a fair maiden or something, either. Pop culture is quite fond of this myth, but I think it is important to realise that it is only a myth, and definitely NOT the truth!

    ReplyDelete
  86. I would like to invite everyone to read an article showcasing the research that has been done on human sexuality, monogamy (are humans really monogamous? the short answer, no, and based on sex drive women are less suited to be) and women's sex drive. I didn't need research to tell me that I love variety and I don't thin of my pussy as a prize, it can't be given away, and the way we think of sex has way more to do with CONDITIONING than anything else. I'd like to explore the notion of wether or not a man sees you as wife material (certainly based on this paradigm) isn't necessarily desirable, especially of one of the requirements is to pretend or come as you don't have sex as often or with as many ppl as the guy. Men need to grow up. There are men who think differently. Trust me, they're out there. www.helesetalks.wordpress.com

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Here's the article: http://www.alternet.org/sex-amp-relationships/truth-about-female-desire-its-base-animalistic-and-ravenous?paging=off

      Delete
  87. Fine then I'll wait few more dates to fuck. And just lie about the number of my sex partners. Fuck it !

    ReplyDelete
  88. Another asshole topic from your typical southern California guy. NOTHING special about you Andrew. nothing. You will never get to be with smart women. You had better be satisfied with the dumb ones cause that's the only ones that won't notice what a dick you are. You are SUCH a tool. It's totally fine for you to want to fuck on the first date, so when she gives you what you wanted, she doesn't get to be with you anymore??? WOW! The worst hypocritical bullshit I've ever read. Man, it's a damn good thing I don't know where you have coffee. I'd get hired there JUST to poison you. You are a disgrace to the male species.

    ReplyDelete
  89. OH and then there's this: Writer said;
    "There is little risk for a man when it comes to sex: he doesn’t need to worry about pregnancy. Even if he is not using a condom, he can control when (and if not when, where) he ejaculates."
    HOLY SHIT!! hahahaha!!! HE doesn't have to worry? hahahahah! All a gal needs to know is where you work or take your licence plate number and she can have the state garnishing your paycheck for that there pregnancy you stupid shit for brains! hahahahah!! He doesn't have to worry about pregnancy! hahahahahah!!!
    Also, condoms are not even CLOSE to being 100% foolproof and pulling out or not ejaculating prevents pregnancy?? Are you fucking serious? hahahah!!! You didn't even look that one up at all did ya genius??? Usually, semen, (you know, the pre-ejaculate goo), will have enough sperm cells in it to get her pregnant you idiot. It only takes ONE! You make me sick to my stomach. Men need to worry MORE than women about pregnancy and here's why.... SHE will have ALL the control of that life in her belly. YOU will have no say in the matter most of the time. If she wants to keep that child, YOU'RE a daddy. period. My God this is a crap shoot. I hope these women realize you are an idiot and don't end up following your stupid ass advise.

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  90. I agree whole heartedly with this blog(ger)!

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  91. I am a woman and I myself have no respect for 'easy' women!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And like my cousin would say ... "Your body is like God's temple. Don't abuse it ... treat it like sacred!"

      Delete
  92. Drop dead, you sexist fucking creep.

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  93. Andrew, as a guy who likes to have sex with as many hot girls as possible, with as little effort as possible, I request that you shut up! Stop telling girls not to bang on first dates. Slutty women are a good thing for us. The more sluts the better!

    It's like the ice cream truck is handing out free ice cream and you're trying to stop it haha.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There are two type of girls: 1) those that know this and still want to fulfill their needs without attachment AND 2) those that think giving men sex will take it to the next level. Andrew is helping number 2. And you would probably be better off not sleeping with those girls anyway. Why would you want to sleep with someone under false pretenses? I mean, even if you want easy sex with hot girls. You should just find the ones that want what you want. There is no need to trick someone into sleeping with you. If you are that much of a player, you should step it up!

      Delete
  94. This idea is simplistically dualistic, but better understood in practice than in theory. I'm a an outgoing, young-acting woman in my late 30s, and get approached by younger men quite a bit. I'm very sexually driven and find these approaches flattering so I sleep with quite a few of them - but in addition to the mutual sexual desire I also don't expect anything to develop romantically, and that's what influences my decision. This is the thing - sex is great, and as long as there's mutual respect and safe sex, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it and no one should judge. But in practice, I've found that even though I do my damnedest to convince these hot young things that I don't want a relationship with them (I've been trying unsuccessfully to get a booty call situation going) I find inevitably once they've hit it, they disappear. Whether it's the biological drive to spread the seed or the messages they grew up with that nice girls don't have sex, that's what happens, with the exception of guys who may be travelling through or about to move overseas and there's a definite end point (It's definitely not because the sex isn't good! And I live in a very isolated country popular with tourists and most people in their 20s want to live overseas at some point.) When it comes to dating, on a first date, all bets are off. Even if you have a great date, think you're really compatible, feel a spark,see a future, he may not have the same experience you're having. Sex or no sex, you may never hear from him again. I don't think my sexuality is some kind of prize I need to hold out from a guy, but if I've met someone I feel like I could date exclusively and get serious about, it just feels natural to hold off from sex right away. It feels more natural to spend some more time getting to know him and if and when the sex happens it will be on a deeper level. When I really like someone I also feel very shy about sex, and I honor that. If this same type of guy was really going for sex on the first date it would be a definite turnoff and an indication that he's not really interested in me, just the sex. I have guy friends who go on dating sites to get sex, which is so tacky considering those women are probably looking for relationships! That guy you're on the date with could be like that too! So if you want to have sex, nothing wrong with that, but it may serve you to pause and think about your motivations. Are you doing it because you think he will like you more? Is he pressuring you? Are you using sex to block your insecurities about dating? None of the above and willing to take the risk that you won't hear from him again? If you're going in with awareness and a clear mind and can handle yourself - and you're after a hot night of sex with a hot guy that you can tell your friends about with no expectations, go for it and don't worry about the labels a rather unevolved "average" person will give you. There's nothing innate about promiscuity or sluttyness, they're just constructs.

    ReplyDelete