You won’t find many girls that have had sexual partners uglier than themselves, but you’ll find an endless list of guys that have – in fact, there is a contingent of men that have sex with girls less attractive than themselves almost as a rule. Because men can have sex without worrying about pregnancy, social stigma, rape, less about STDs, etc., they attempt to have sex more often. This is so obvious that it might not be worth stating, but ultimately, it means there is a deficit of women for promiscuous sexual relationships. The relatively high demand for females means that women have more and better sexual options.
Men will usually sleep with women that are between 1 and 3 points lower than themselves on a 10-point scale, which means that women are usually sleeping with men that are 1 to 3 points higher than themselves. Men may get laid more often, or at least, have sex with a larger number of partners; but women get to sleep with men of higher quality, in other words, men that are "out of their league."
Men will usually sleep with women that are between 1 and 3 points lower than themselves on a 10-point scale, which means that women are usually sleeping with men that are 1 to 3 points higher than themselves. Men may get laid more often, or at least, have sex with a larger number of partners; but women get to sleep with men of higher quality, in other words, men that are "out of their league."
I often wonder how much this affects girls’ self-perception. Do women know this, and high-five each other after sleeping with guys far more attractive than themselves, realizing all the while that they will someday end up marrying a guy that is much less attractive than what they've experienced until he came along? Or are they unaware of the above-described phenomenon, and conclude that their sexual exploits accurately reflect their options for a spouse, only to be disappointed later in life?
This is so true and is a major reason why so many women remain single into their 40s. A woman can easily date a man more attractive than she is, although he likely won't commit to marry her. Some women think that because they can pick up a hot guy at a bar, that they must be hot themselves.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that a lot of men get stuck in bad marriages after getting hitched to formerly promiscuous women who had to settle for less than what they really wanted in order to get married.
I know some fat or at least very average-looking women who only go for fit or successful guys and are then upset when they get rejected. If those women went for guys in their own league, they would be much happier.
"Formerly promiscuous women"
DeleteWhen I was younger, they used to call em used up sluts.
"Because men can have sex without worrying about pregnancy, social stigma, rape, less about STDs, etc., they attempt to have sex more often."
Yes, men clearly don't have to worry about having to pay child suport.
Also, if you actually believe that THIS is the reason and not a clearly higher and more indiscriminate sex drive, you're an imbecile.
There is no such thing as a "higher" passion, in this case an indiscriminate sex drive, except for passions that are directed towards reason. Human beings have the capacity to veto their primarily "indiscriminate" sex drives, thereby making them discriminate.
DeleteThe neutrality of the passions is made unneutral through RESISTING them, because one resists either for an equal or higher principle. The neurological structure of the human brain is structured that decisions are made milliseconds (an eternity at the neurological level) prior to conscious awareness.
Human beings, therefore, are deluded into thinking they have a choice when in fact, the choice has already been made prior to us having become aware that we made a choice. That is to say, the indiscriminate aspects of nature are the LOWEST aspect of human nature because it is predetermined it is not the highest since the former does not allow for AUTONOMY, or FREEDOM.
The only human faculty that is exempt from the predetermination of neurobiology is VETO, or resisting the decision that our brains have already made for us (I presume that the self is above the structure of the brain due to this veto power and by Kurt Godel's Incompleteness Theorem). The reasons listed above,a man's not having to worry about "pregnancy, social stigma, rape, less about STDs, etc." make it HARDER for him to resist his passions, which in the long run makes him LESS happy.
"I suspect that a lot of men get stuck in bad marriages after getting hitched to formerly promiscuous women who had to settle for less than what they really wanted in order to get married."
ReplyDeleteTHAT is a damned good point.
Ha! That's a new one for why extremely attractive men have sex so much more often than extremely attractive women; they're just not as selective.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I wouldn't worry about being the guy she settles for, men as a rule over rate their own attractiveness--probably by about 3 points (self deceptive but not a bad strategy) and attractiveness isn't the most important thing to a woman.
Settling, as you define it, not having sex with lots of hot guys might seem like a punishment to a man...but to the woman, it's not novelty that makes sex good but intimacy/connection. With the one guy that could provide it: the guy she married.
There are lots of bad marriages. I just don't think this particular reason: experience with prettier men, is a real cause.
We're definitely different. I think if some men had access to sex the same as women, they'd never settle down.
Great blog!
"Ha! That's a new one for why extremely attractive men have sex so much more often than extremely attractive women; they're just not as selective."
ReplyDeleteNot True! They are More selective, just that their sex life can be driven with women that only cater to their physical needs - since sex demands less from someone than a stable relationship - while so many women even more beautiful are considered not worthy the effort of a committed relationship because she doesn't have the traits he expects in a spouse(yes, spouse, not girlfriend, eventual dates also demand less than marriage).
"There are lots of bad marriages. I just don't think this particular reason: experience with prettier men, is a real cause."
ReplyDeleteIt's not. It's experience with attractive men, which fuels the nagging thought that she has possibly "settled". "Pretty" and "attractive" are not the same things.
"Do women know this, and high-five each other after sleeping with guys far more attractive than themselves, realizing all the while that they will someday end up marrying a guy that is much less attractive than what they've experienced until he came along?"
ReplyDeleteha, I love considering these things too! Being an INTJ/INFP hybrid is a strange and wild cocktail... one outcome is I get addicted to analyzing human relations via web!
as to the quote above, I'm fortunate in that regard... I'm female and, naturally subjectively but also as much as I can vouch objectively, I feel confident putting all my chips down that of each of my relationships my husband is the most attractive intellectually/personality-y, physically and sexually. Maybe I have bucked the trend, ha, because I have noticed many non-promiscuous and promiscuous gals do end up 'settling down' with the vanilla-nice-guy-breadwinner, of a slightly less scintillating variety... whereas as per Ladder Theory, they had outlaw bikers in their past, ahaha. It’s a little incompatible.
My husband’s high ‘rating’ does, honestly, cause extra worry. But you learn to deal with it. I do. And men like some worry, right? I have had to learn this—that it can be a nice experience for all involved to have some worry and to speak it! :-) Everything in balance.
you can turn it into fun too. When we cross paths with one of our flirty acquaintances, or every time one of our exes calls the house with a shitty attitude... we end up having really hot lovemaking. gotta treat yourself sometimes!
Y’know, we can prattle all we want, and strive for ideals and fairness... and still, at the end of the day, what do we find but that... Genetics rule. Intractable and joyously ruthless, bringing with it Sturm und Drang and Heraclitean flux.
Cool by me.
~N.
wtf is an "INTJ/INFP"?
Deleteoh i remember, the personality-type thing.
DeleteUh...can you really be an INTJ/INFP 'hybrid', or do you just mean that you have a very low preference between T/F and J/P? I mean, I'm an INTP with a very, *very* low J/P preference, but I'm still an INTP, and not an INTP/INTJ hybrid.
DeleteYou should be very wary about stating that "men are less prone to STD's" - while some STI symptoms may not be apparent in men, it still makes them just as likely as contracting them (and in fact they should be more wary, since some STI's are symptomless for them).
ReplyDeleteThis is strange haha, I mean..if I look back honestly (and I haven't had sexual relationships with many men)..the men I have had what one may define as "casual sex with" I and my friends have deemed less attractive than myself (alcohol). The men I have had relationships however I would consider 8/10 (or at least would have at the time), perhaps more. However, it can be difficult for me personally to assess physical attractiveness in men and even myself and it all comes down to what you have described as "personal taste"..also I think when you are in the midst of infatuation or love you might determine them as being more attractive than they are and later look back post split and think "what the hell was I doing?"...
ReplyDeleteI have been offered by a previous boyfriend that I am a "9/10". There are just so many factors to be taken into consideration when rating...
Also, in a way I think as fun it is to think of playing "out of your league" or what one might consider to be, I find dating guys who think you are above them in that respect to be a nightmare as they are generally more jealous and possessive. In addition, a guy I might deem to be out of my league..going out with him I'd feel miserable a lot of the time because I know that there are plenty of temptations available to him and I feel nervous and insecure.
A friend once told me it's wise to go 2 points below your league and never above your league. I haven't really tested this theory out, I tend to choose men largely on personality...a 5/10 can become a 9/10 easily with a decent, unique character..
bullshit
DeleteThere are some studies that that indicate that happiest marriages are the ones where the woman is objectively more attractive than the man.
DeleteWhich makes sense when you think about it.
The woman is being forever courted by a man that KNOWS he has to work his ass off to keep her.
While the man gets to bang a hottie on a regular basis.
to: oct. 23 2012 anon...
Deleteyou're dumb
to: oct. 23 2012 anon...
Deleteyou're right
Yup! Tis true. I do prefer men who will appreciate what they have far far more than the good looking dude. And, I am considered hot....just saying.
Delete"I often wonder how much this affects girls’ self-perception. Do women know this, and high-five each other after sleeping with guys far more attractive than themselves?"
ReplyDeleteSome women brag about sleeping with a hot guy. They are awfully annoying. I suppose it depends on the setting, if the guy is a MUCH higher league and they were 'chosen' in a venue with other, more attractive women, it gives some validation. But in general, most women know better than to brag about casual sex. Women whom are in a LTR with, or married to a top notch guy are the ones with the most status.
Part of the problem is that many women think men have much higher standards for f-buddies, FWBs, flings and casual arrangements than they have for ONS. So even though a guy doesn't want to date you, they think having a top league FWB means you can get a similar guy for marriage. When in reality it does not.
I know several women in their 30s who's been sleeping around and have gotten used to having a hot, rich lover in every city. They are attractive enough, but never find a husband - and I'm confident they don't want to settle with a guy with less.
I think a lot of women would agree with what you're writing, but not see it in their own lives. Especially if they've been sleeping with someone while hoping for it to turn into something more. Men are obviously very good at faking genuine interest. When the casual relationship ends, they are more likely to blame it on another factor than him being out of their league.
Out of curiosity - do you think men have different standards from ONS to FWB to dating? I've always been thinking that the only real distinction is between a monogamous relationship/marriage and "the rest", i.e. there are girls you'd go monogamous for and there are "the others", but maybe I'm wrong.
"i.e. there are girls you'd go monogamous for and there are "the others", but maybe I'm wrong."
DeleteI can only give the single opinion of me, a man.
But that is precisely how I see the sexual market place.
There are women I would raise kids with, and then there's everyone else.
I do, however, suspect that for most men the same binary distinction takes president.
*precedent
DeleteHow do you know when you are batting too far above your league. I've been asked out a few times by a man in a high status job...who is a year younger than me, we are both late twenties. He is good looking and does not seem a ladies man but I feel like it would be almost too much effort and trouble to go out with a man like him.
ReplyDeleteHmm, I have yet to hook up with and date men in my own league, let alone hotter! I have a couple of weeks left till my 30th birthday, and was hoping I could hook up with at least one hot (clean) white guy before then, lol. ( I got out of a 9 year relationship last year) I still think attractiveness is subjective, but based one what you I see you guys writing online, someone could consider me anywhere from a 7-9.5
ReplyDelete"which means that women are usually sleeping with men that are 1 to 3 points higher than themselves"
ReplyDeleteThat depends entirely where you are on the scale though. You have to be 7 or less for there to be someone 3 points higher :)
Sure all men have different taste, but if you're in the higher end, you'll be 9 or 10 to some men out there. Isn't this post more true for women who don't present themselves too well or are slightly older? If you're 23 and very good looking I can't imagine there being a very large discrepancy between the men you sleep with casually and those you end up in LTRs/marriage with. Given that the woman goes out with men who finds her very attractive and according to their taste.
This post is as true 23 year old good looking woman. She is not likely to marry at 23 in today's society so by the time she does end up married she will be "slightly" older..if you want to look at it from that perspective.
ReplyDeleteWomen who don't present themselves well but have the "raw" materials, if you will, can be just as good looking as that 23 year old if they so decide to tap into their potential. The slightly older woman will still be ranked extremely highly by men if she was good looking to begin with. Some of the most beautiful women in the world are slightly older (mid/late twenties-early thirties) and probably a hell of a lot more interesting too.
Also it's all contextual. That 30 year old "older" woman might be a 30 year old's 6-7/10 but she could well be a 9-10/10 queen to a 22 year old or 43 year old.
I completely agree with this blog. Women nowadays do seem to think that simply because a guy out of their league will sleep with them that they can actually have a relationship with this type of man. Then they wonder why the guy cheats on them. Today's harem society where 80% of women sleep with 20% of the males (alpha males, physically) is the main cause. Women say they don't care about looks but nothing could be further from the truth. Frankly, I've given up on ever getting married because why would I want to marry a woman in my thirties when she would have rejected me point blank in my twenties. What now that you're willing to settle I should just fall for you? Meanwhile knowing that you've probably slept with 10-20 men which in my books is a whore. Women need to wake up and start acting like women, not sluts. For all the good guys out there that have been screwed throughout their twenties, forget about the white picket fence family dream, don't get hitched, keep the money, ride the desperate 30s ladies without commitment and live life alone. Women these days aren't worth it.
ReplyDeleteMarry a younger woman.
DeleteSo what if the gorgeous, feminine, 25 year old woman who wants to bear your children wouldn't have given you the time of day when you were 25?
Your not 25 anymore. She's not the 34 year old that laughed hysterically when you asked her to homecoming.
This is how gender relations work/worked without the guiding hand of a a civilized society. Play your cards right and you can come out a real winner.
Ok. First of all, it is 2012. Not 1812. Women are no longer dependent on men for survival and so the nature of sexual relationships has changed. If you can't handle that, if the fact that a woman is free and in control of her own sexuality, if the number of her sexual partners is paramount in your estimation of her worth, then maybe you are the one who isn't worth it. Perhaps you need to reevaluate your puerile little attitude toward women and let go of your obviously rejection-filled past so that you can at least interact with women in a slightly less misogynist frame. You utter philistine.
DeleteToo many frustrated men on this site... ;(
Delete;)... hahahahaha
Sorry, but a women's sexual history is part of her SMP value and has been proven to be an indicator of her future fidelity and loyalty to her husband.
DeleteTo quote Prince Charles' great-uncle, Lord Mountbatten: "the man should sow his wild oats and have as many affairs as he can before settling down, but for a wife he should choose a suitable, attractive, and sweet-charactered girl before she has met anyone else she might fall for ... It is disturbing for women to have experiences if they have to remain on a pedestal after marriage."
It's strange, but I only hear loose women complain about the double standard :o ;)
Anonymous,
Deletethe sad things was that Charles did marry a younger, sweetheart but his heart belong to another. So, being a virgin bride doesn't means that your husband will love you and to many men, love is more important then a virginity.
I do agree that men judges women on this, and girls should be aware of it. Moreover, the assumption here is that the man is in fact handsome and accomplished.
No virgin would want to marry a 40 loser that lives in his parents basement.
To answer your question, yes, first I high five myself in the bathroom mirror while I'm cleaning up right after...and then I high five my girlfriends later while I'm dishing the details over beers.
ReplyDelete...that being said - is it any wonder I'm voraciously reading your blog while trying to dissect my utter failure at securing a guy worth dating?
Banging out of my league is overrated. At the end of the day, it results in trophy stories, but never getting a call-back is a drag. Looking forward to wielding the knowledge I've gained here. You have no idea how helpful it is to get straight talk. My girl friends tell me that "I'm just too independent and intimidate men" but what I really needed to hear was "Guys think you're a slut. Rein it in!" So seriously - THANK YOU
It's interesting that you say it's more common for men to sleep with women who are relatively less attractive than they are. I think that might be true, TOO, because men are more wired up to pursue sexually in an indiscriminate manner, generally, and in the throes of a highly-expressed libido, aesthetic standards are lowered.
ReplyDeleteHowever, since beauty/looks is inarguably more of a commodity for women than it is for men, I normally see and thus assume that women sleep with men who are less attractive than them quite often. And for different reasons.
If a man has many other traits that a woman finds "sexy" or attractive, then suddenly a man's looks matter far LESS to her. Women enjoy good-looking men, but it often isn't a premium requirement, rather a plus. Whereas, women can't negotiate a looks trade-off in this manner given that they have other great qualities going on to attract men. It is common to see plain or even "ugly" male media figures with women who are considered above average to beautiful, because the men have other assets that attract those women.
I'd look at the celebrity arena as a macrocosm of everyday people. It's just hyperbolized. It's what everyday men and women wish they can do, explore, pursue, or depict, given that they have the options that rich media figures have to really express their inner desires and fantasies. As I've always believed and said, people tend to define themselves more so by their limitations or lack of opportunities...
Anyway, the longstanding icon of "Beauty and the Beast" is not just a nice theme for a fairy tale or storytelling premise, I think it's inspired by the social dynamics of reality. Therefore, it becomes even a plausible and sentimental fairy tale.
Turn even that fairy tale around to make the beast a woman and the beauty a man, and suddenly it's not such a beloved fairy tale, but one where people find themselves feeling rubbed the wrong way and "disturbed."
"I'd look at the celebrity arena as a macrocosm of everyday people. It's just hyperbolized. It's what everyday men and women wish they can do, explore, pursue, or depict, given that they have the options that rich media figures have to really express their inner desires and fantasies."
DeleteHa! I've always thought this too. In general though I agree with most of what you've said in your comment, though I don't think it goes directly against anything in my post. Maybe I should have clarified that by league I meant "physical attractiveness league."
You write well.
There are not as many attractive men as there are attractive women on this planet. The ratio is 1 to 10. So, yes a woman might be lucky to have sex with a man who is her league!!!
DeleteThis is bunch of BS. I am a female and I have slept mostly with men who were below my league because I have gone for the personality. They have a been one two that were right at my league though, it felt good, like we could make really good looking babies. I never go for above the league, I don't think those men are attracted to me anyways, I technically I cannot go for them, I will get rejected!
ReplyDeleteI bet you'd be surprised at your success - assuming your conception of "your league" is accurate.
Deletehaha yea she would definitely be surprised.
DeleteI am a gorgeous 36 year old kind hearted, well educated, financially independent woman. Dated less attractive guys with nothing to offer. They were always broke. I always had to help them out financially. Then I married a less attractive broke guy for love and 13 years and 2 kids later I am divorced as this less attractive man refused to grow up and work hard or spend time with the kids and I: he prefered his friends. I am financially comfortable and still Hot but all I get are ugly guys wanting sex. Its not even the good looking ones but wait, I live in a town with no good looking guys. The last guy I dated was very much less attractive and way below my league but the sex was mind blowing. This one wasnt broke, he just stayed in a corner. Someone, what am I missing?
ReplyDeleteYa, Andrew....where's your answer for that one? Or are you ever going to admit that rather than there being anomalous circumstances to YOUR theories, you are actually the anomaly and most other people just don't apply.
DeleteMen all think they're super attractive. That's why their "2 or 3 points below" their own standards are still above a ten. Hard to miss when you think you're a 19 or 20. Don't you agree?
-Nicole
Bullshit, guys are much more accurate at assessing their mate value then women are at assessing their own. Why? Because men are the one's who have to actual sell themselves in the mating market. Now, that doesn't mean that they won't try to inflate the perception of their value when trying to make the sale. In common parlance it is known as puffery. But that mere puffery doesn't mean that the man doesn't actually know his true value. You think the car salesman who tells you the beat up 1980's Ford is as smooth and attractive as a Lamborghini actually believes the bullshit he's telling you?
DeleteYou have kids. Damaged goods.
DeleteChris is right.
DeleteLook, I am saying this from a position of love: you kind of sound like a bitch. I'm not saying that you were wrong about your husband's inadequacies, mind you; but it sounds like you instinctively seek out relationships where you are the clear superior because it strokes your ego to be in control. Statements like
Delete"I am financially comfortable and still Hot but all I get are ugly guys wanting sex. Its not even the good looking ones but wait, I live in a town with no good looking guys."
are kind of a dead give-away. Of course there are good-looking guys in your town, just like there are smart ones and nice ones and rich ones. They're probably avoiding you because you scare them away. You need to eat a nice, big, hot slice of humble pie, get over yourself, find some hobbies or interests, and start meeting men as people.
Hello
DeleteIn a sense you are actually in a fortunate position- a BIG fish in a
little pond. It appears that men in your town probably realize that they are subpar but they also realize that you have no choice(and in small towns women often are lke this). I live in a similar situation in a small town and the men have no choice.
This post reminded me of another post you wrote saying that "we project our own ideas of attractiveness onto the opposite sex". Some women do this, but I think some men do it too. Men are visual, and some guys do genuinely believe looks matter a lot more to woman than it actually does. At least than it does to me.
ReplyDeleteI am not very visual when it comes to men - I need him to be in good shape, I care about his overall 'look' and I am probably more into a particular sense of style, but overall, confidence, humor, success and a sense of 'worldliness' will always compensate for what other girls refer to as 'average' looks (I don't THINK I date average-looking men, but I have come to realize their personality/background make them better-looking to me).
A couple of friends have told me several times that men I date are not good-looking enough for me, girls who are undoubtedly more visual than I am.
But this has to be a phenomenon for men as well? Even a couple of guys I dated whom were rich, confident and charismatic sometimes behaved as if I had the upper hand. I imagine this is because they think looks matter more to women than it does? So who has the upper hand must clearly depend on how people perceive themselves and whether they are actually aware of what the opposite sex wants?
Yours is a good observation, and I see this happen a lot. Men think their looks matter a ton because they place so much emphasis on a woman's looks. I think you are right in your last statement (even though you frame it as a question) that self-perception AND a person's understanding of the other's preferences both play a role in responses to sexual attraction.
DeleteIf you agree with what I wrote above, doesn't this fact interfere a bit with the other advice you give?
DeleteAlthough I agree with most of your posts, I have a problem with this one, as well as "The upper hand in relationships" and "Don't initiate contact". The advice seems quite rigid, as if a man will always have the upper hand, he will be aware he has it, and so will the woman. That is not necessarily the case.
You mentioned in a post that you run the risk of discouraging a man by placing too many hurdles in front of him. But the ONLY solution you offered to this was "don't date below your league" (i.e. drop him), which is a bit too easy, at least for adult women who come across players too often, and good men too rarely.
A small amount of projection is a good thing. Not in order to attract the opposite sex (in that case it is a negative), but in order to fall for someone with different qualities than yourself. The successful, long-term relationships, if you have ever observed one, consist of a couple where both parties feel as if they have a "good deal". Not one where the man has the upper hand. Their tendency to project will help them, for example: the man is thinking "she is so beautiful, I can't believe she would go for an average looking guy like me", she is thinking "he is so confident and successful, I can't believe he'd go for a shy, awkward girl like me".
It is completely possible for a woman to date a man who considers himself below her when he is actually a good catch for her. The advice you give here denies that, and secondly encourages a woman to drive a guy like that away (by not making any initiatives, telling herself that he is not interested etc).
I sometimes find the advice here a bit too one-dimensional. Could be that men have the "upper hand" more often than not, but I don't think I am talking about an insignificant minority in the situation I described. Not from personal experience (where I have driven interested men away) and not from friends' opinions (men and women, who ALL claim that beyond 3 or 4 dates, a woman should initiate as well).
I really liked your post and I'm glad I stumbled across your blog... An unapologetic, straight shooter. I like that.
ReplyDeleteI happen to have been discussing this "league" dating issue with someone not long ago, and I have a dilemma!
I am a woman in my early 40's. I know that I look younger than most women my age, (I am often told I look early to mid 30's) I think I'm attractive (A solid 7 or MAYBE an 8?) I'm no 10, so I'm always surprised to hear men use use words like "gorgeous" to describe me. Although currently a few pounds heavier than I usually am, I'm HWP, and it helps that I'm blonde and fairly fashionable. It's not uncommon for me to get admiring looks pretty much anywhere I go. A girl can tell when men are attracted, and men often seem to be attracted to me. (I'm not trying to sound conceited here, I'm trying to make a point! :)
But even if they are attracted, they don't approach me for a date/digits. Even attractive men who seem attracted to me. I think I seem approachable, but very rarely do they do anything other than look/stare and when they do, it's someone twenty years younger than me, riding high on testosterone. I have a dating profile/s but I get many emails from men I would not date and it's hard to find the ones I would... I try to be nice, and it's time consuming! Lol! When I have actually gone on dates, they act all... Well, I just can't describe it. Seems like no one can be "normal" about dating, and that bugs me! (Normal= calling every few days, asking for a date; NOT normal= calling every few hours, asking where I've been) So I frequently have to cut things after the first date.
I think my problem is that I have been going out with men who are "below" my number/league (or they think they are) and the ones in my league don't try to approach me. Am I crazy, or does this happen? Are guys like that? And if so, how do I get around it?
Here comes the hit from Occam's Razor: either (a) some strange phenomenon is preventing attractive men from approaching you to ask you out, or (b) your league is lower than you think.
DeleteMen will look at women to check them out (revealing attraction), but this does not mean they have any interest in dating.
I suggest taking a broad overview of all the men you've met in the last year, and pegging your "league" somewhere in that range. This doesn't mean you can't improve it, but it would give you a more realistic starting point and expectations.
Lol! Trust me, that point didn't sail past me before you brought it to my attention...! Lol! I tend to be insecure, so it took a lot of courage for me to assert myself and say that which I don't personally feel, but what I am told over and over. Maybe I can send you some pics and you can tell me where you think my "range" should be? ;) In the meantime, my reply...
DeleteI'm new to a small town where "everyone knows everyone". I don't have a social circle, so I don't go out with girlfriends a lot. There are very few single people in my town, because around here most people get married right out of high school. There are some divorced people, but not many, and they are in their fifties and sixties. Lol so there are reasons why it's hard to meet men around here! Even with those obstacles, men have hit on me. If I'm to gauge their league in attractiveness alone, I would say that I'm all right, because they were cute!! Not exactly datable, in my opinion, but very good looking. (Too young for my liking, or married, or whatever.) The other guys I have been out with (because we met online or wherever, not because they approached me) were also very attractive, but after one date, they get very clingy and weird, so I didn't want to continue that. Attractiveness-wise? yes, they are there. Lol so if you are asking if I'm "worth" approaching, I think it's a yes, I'm trying to say. But maybe you're right! I should probably drop down even further than I have been. I guess you're the expert, so you'd have to tell me.
A side note: as random as chaos may be, there is order to be found within it. Seems quite implausible, but you are intelligent, and you know it's true. Just remember that while, generally speaking, the simplest explanation is most likely the right one, sometimes it's the implausible explanation which is the reality, my friend...!
I forgot to mention that the places I get looks but no approaches are not social places. They are places like the grocery store, Home Depot, etc. Places where people are doing things, not there to meet people. Maybe that has something to do with it, too.
DeleteThat probably has a lot to do with it.
DeleteYou notice how all fat women have skinny boyfriends but you never see fat men with skinny gfs (unless they are really rich or famous) women always date up in terms of looks and men date down.
ReplyDeletea woman can be 500 lbs and still have no shortage of men in line for her but if a man falls an inch below 6 foot he is screwed. it is way harder to be considered attractive as a man that it is a woman. besides women use make up to bring them up 1-3 points on the looks scale. fuck the dating scene!
Yea. But guys dont have to worry about a gut or face lines because they have facial hair, or menapause or what bra to wear or the emotional ties with sex.
DeleteGet over it.
"a woman can be 500 lbs and still have no shortage of men in line for her but if a man falls an inch below 6 foot he is screwed. "
DeleteNow, you know that's not true...
Yeah that is absurd.
DeleteBullshit. A lot more attractive women are dating unattractive and even ugly guys. But it's true that guys usually overrate themselves.
ReplyDeleteOpen your eyes! Grow up!
Yep, we are, because men are visual, we are more verbal. A not so good looking man who has the way with words: I fall.The not so pretty face becomes beautiful in my eyes (later on, when passion has faded, I may wake up and wonder what happened and what I saw in him. But that's then.
DeleteAnn
Don't be so humble (joke)
ReplyDeleteI'm a girl, and all of my girlfriends get together and laugh about having sex with dumb ass guys. Guys who think they are hot and expect us to just fall all over them.
Why do you guys think you're so special and that we want you to care? Women are getting smarter, and less want men for long term relationships.
Hi There! Why waste time having sex with dumb assed guys?
DeleteBecause it's SEX, doofus!
DeleteI predict you're under 30.
Deletebut you go on with your bad self! I'd be getting a lot less sex without girls who think like you. seriously if you truly are happy whoring it up then as far as guys are concerned it's win win. I wish more girls were like you.
I gotta say, I really disagree with this one. I always see couples where the girl is more attractive than the guy. Maybe you are talking about one night stands or something but I don't think this is accurate when it comes to relationships. If anything, I think it's the other way around. I live in NYC, maybe it's different here. I also think that if a man really wants to get laid he could go for someone less attractive but I feel like guys rarely do this. I think people are generally very ambitious and go for the hottest girl even if they might be wise to do otherwise.
ReplyDeleteWhat if a guy is a 0 or 3, but convince an inexperience, naive girl that he is a 10? I think that a lot of girls are just naive, and they sleeps with guys that are really beneath their standards.
ReplyDeleteyep, and/or with low self-esteem
DeleteWhat is "revealing attraction ". The answer you gave the 40 something female. I belive I suffer from this too. Men tell me I am gorgeous. I know it's not true. My grandfather described me as a " handsome" women and I belive that's what I am. The years have softened that look but it is stil true.
ReplyDeleteA handsome woman is the same as a gorgeous woman... different generational language, that's all.
DeleteWell thank you! I will take those compliments now. :)
DeleteKnowing women, I'm going to guess they are unaware.
ReplyDeleteHandsome is more related to harmony of proportions, dignity, gracefulness, elegance.
ReplyDeleteGorgeous means beautiful; very attractive.
I know I'm commenting on an older post here, but I've been reading this blog all day and after reading all the stuff about improving appearance, I want to ask a question about this. So if, as you say, feminine beauty is mostly controllable and a woman can approve her appearance anywhere from 1-3 points with enough effort... wouldn't that mean that she's technically capable of getting and keeping the guys she has casual sex with, if she maximizes her appearance?
ReplyDeleteSorry, that may come off as super mathematical. Obviously this isn't considering potential hindering factors (e.g., if the girl doesn't truly MAXIMIZE appearance efforts).
I guess my question is- by improving/maximizing your appearance, you can potentially put yourself in the same league as the men you have casual sex with. But theoretically, don't you have to be out of their league to be able to expect commitment from them? In which case... we can never get the men we want? Or, as another someone here commented, do the lines get blurrier and blurrier the higher up "the scale" you go? (like, a 9 guy and a 9 girl).
More evidence for Women get to play out of their league.
ReplyDelete(You won't hear any feminists demanding social equality between men and women here. And that's just how hey want it. Unequal)
http://www.counselheal.com/articles/3898/20130214/more-women-want-sex-higher-standards-gender.htm
"A new study reveals that the more women want sex, the more they up their standards when choosing a short-term mate.
Researchers found that this is in direct contrast to statistics for men, after they study revealed that men are more likely to lower their standards the more "sexually hyperactive" they become."
But men arbitrarily raise and lower their standards depending on what's available to them at any given time. It's not all to do with how much sex they get overall. And obviously a man with more options will raise his standards, not lower them.
DeleteI can see a reason why a woman would raise standards for a short-term mate. Casual sex is not an easy leap for many woman, so you have to justify it somehow. Having casual sex with someone really hot makes you look higher value/more discerning and less 'easy' as well as getting some cred from your group of friends. For example, I know some women who'd mock another woman for sexing someone who is generally unappealing...i.e. "Ew you must be desperate to get with him". That will turn into "Wow I'm super jealous" if you sleep with someone deemed to be highly attractive. These types of conversations happen when you're a teenage girl.
I actually think it isn't always about entitlement (which you seem to imply) and more about how we get on with other women and preserving our social reputation whilst doing something somewhat base.
"I can see a reason why a woman would raise standards for a short-term mate. Casual sex is not an easy leap for many woman"
DeleteBut why is it not an easy leap? It is for men.
"you have to justify it somehow"
I prefer the term explain but justify can work.
"Having casual sex with someone really hot makes you look higher value/more discerning and less 'easy' as well as getting some cred from your group of friends."
Why does this occur? Why is greater value attached to women's sex than men's?
"I actually think it isn't always about entitlement (which you seem to imply)"
That's not what I'm implying.
"and more about how we get on with other women and preserving our social reputation"
Why is doing that necessary to preserve your reputation? Again why is women's sex deemed more valuable and worse to waste than men's sex?
The answer to all my questions is men and women have evolved to be different and we have evolved different social norms to deal with those evolved differences.
What I was implying was that feminists are scumbag hypocrites whose only concern is about removing or ameliorating the effects of social norms that differ between men and women that aren't to a woman's advantage (generally upper-middle class white women) while doing nothing about social norms that differ between men and women but are to a woman's advantage, all the while justifying their actions under the banner of equality.
The example I used above was to show that while the inequalities that occur in the short-term mating market where women distribute their sex all to the top guys rather than distributing it equally to all men will go ignored by feminists who "seek equality", while those same feminists will froth at the mouth when men refuse to marry their "equals" (aka 35+ year old banged out career women) and hence refuse to distribute commitment equally (that is without regard to the mating value of the person in question).
Or put simply, feminists aren't for equality, they are for inequality in favor of women.
(In due course, I actually agree that women who pursue STR's should go for the best guys, it make evolutionary sense. What I don't like is when self-righteous hypocritical feminists then come in and try and spread false and evil propaganda to subvert social norms to their own advantage and exploit men.)
Wow, this is really insightful. Great post. A great follow-up educational post for women would be "How to tell what league you are in."
ReplyDelete