Sunday, August 14, 2011

Women Get to Play Out of Their League

You won’t find many girls that have had sexual partners uglier than themselves, but you’ll find an endless list of guys that have – in fact, there is a contingent of men that have sex with girls less attractive than themselves almost as a rule. Because men can have sex without worrying about pregnancy, social stigma, rape, less about STDs, etc., they attempt to have sex more often. This is so obvious that it might not be worth stating, but ultimately, it means there is a deficit of women for promiscuous sexual relationships. The relatively high demand for females means that women have more and better sexual options.

Men will usually sleep with women that are between 1 and 3 points lower than themselves on a 10-point scale, which means that women are usually sleeping with men that are 1 to 3 points higher than themselves. Men may get laid more often, or at least, have sex with a larger number of partners; but women get to sleep with men of higher quality, in other words, men that are "out of their league."

I often wonder how much this affects girls’ self-perception. Do women know this, and high-five each other after sleeping with guys far more attractive than themselves, realizing all the while that they will someday end up marrying a guy that is much less attractive than what they've experienced until he came along? Or are they unaware of the above-described phenomenon, and conclude that their sexual exploits accurately reflect their options for a spouse, only to be disappointed later in life?

168 comments:

  1. This is so true and is a major reason why so many women remain single into their 40s. A woman can easily date a man more attractive than she is, although he likely won't commit to marry her. Some women think that because they can pick up a hot guy at a bar, that they must be hot themselves.

    I suspect that a lot of men get stuck in bad marriages after getting hitched to formerly promiscuous women who had to settle for less than what they really wanted in order to get married.

    I know some fat or at least very average-looking women who only go for fit or successful guys and are then upset when they get rejected. If those women went for guys in their own league, they would be much happier.

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    1. "Formerly promiscuous women"

      When I was younger, they used to call em used up sluts.

      "Because men can have sex without worrying about pregnancy, social stigma, rape, less about STDs, etc., they attempt to have sex more often."

      Yes, men clearly don't have to worry about having to pay child suport.

      Also, if you actually believe that THIS is the reason and not a clearly higher and more indiscriminate sex drive, you're an imbecile.

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    2. There is no such thing as a "higher" passion, in this case an indiscriminate sex drive, except for passions that are directed towards reason. Human beings have the capacity to veto their primarily "indiscriminate" sex drives, thereby making them discriminate.

      The neutrality of the passions is made unneutral through RESISTING them, because one resists either for an equal or higher principle. The neurological structure of the human brain is structured that decisions are made milliseconds (an eternity at the neurological level) prior to conscious awareness.

      Human beings, therefore, are deluded into thinking they have a choice when in fact, the choice has already been made prior to us having become aware that we made a choice. That is to say, the indiscriminate aspects of nature are the LOWEST aspect of human nature because it is predetermined it is not the highest since the former does not allow for AUTONOMY, or FREEDOM.

      The only human faculty that is exempt from the predetermination of neurobiology is VETO, or resisting the decision that our brains have already made for us (I presume that the self is above the structure of the brain due to this veto power and by Kurt Godel's Incompleteness Theorem). The reasons listed above,a man's not having to worry about "pregnancy, social stigma, rape, less about STDs, etc." make it HARDER for him to resist his passions, which in the long run makes him LESS happy.

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  2. "I suspect that a lot of men get stuck in bad marriages after getting hitched to formerly promiscuous women who had to settle for less than what they really wanted in order to get married."

    THAT is a damned good point.

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  3. Ha! That's a new one for why extremely attractive men have sex so much more often than extremely attractive women; they're just not as selective.

    However, I wouldn't worry about being the guy she settles for, men as a rule over rate their own attractiveness--probably by about 3 points (self deceptive but not a bad strategy) and attractiveness isn't the most important thing to a woman.

    Settling, as you define it, not having sex with lots of hot guys might seem like a punishment to a man...but to the woman, it's not novelty that makes sex good but intimacy/connection. With the one guy that could provide it: the guy she married.

    There are lots of bad marriages. I just don't think this particular reason: experience with prettier men, is a real cause.

    We're definitely different. I think if some men had access to sex the same as women, they'd never settle down.

    Great blog!

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    1. @ Anonymous- women overrate ther own attractiveness more often and to a greater degree than men ever could

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    2. I don't think this is true I n general. Yes, there are women who believe themselves more attractive than they really are, but this is an exception to the rule. More women believe that they are not thin enough, and they focus on their flaws.

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    3. So true Carrie and to add to that, most men fancy themselves even more handsome or attractive than we consider them to be. Don't get it twisted men, women in their forty won't generally settle for someone less than what they truly want, in your words "someone in their own league" whatever that's supposed to mean, but as we get older we realize that so called 'pretty boys' or 'attractive men' tend to be very shallow and into themselves, unable many times to carry a conversation intelligently and or handle life's decisions on a mature level so we tend to look beyond the shallowness of outward appearances and look more deeply into the heart and assess the substance of what he has to offer. At this stage of our lives, we're not concerned about how he looks to our friends who we're trying to impress, we've grown waaay past that. We want someone who we can grow in life with, each taking with them something to offer and to build on, attractiveness, if it is there is an added bonus but not a strict requirement.

      Men on the other hand, never seem to grow out of that immature phase, they have to impress, and the older they get the younger and prettier the girl has to be. These relationships are usually fleeting and never last. At the end of the day the 'pretty young girl' is just in it for the moment to see how much she can get out of you, assuming you have something to offer.

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    4. Hello

      LMAO!Ya know you could be right... It's not that women overrate themselves as much as they underrate the men. There are studies to prove this. The reasons behind this (IMO) is because of the sex drive difference. Attractive men are alot less shallow that attractive women.

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    5. Women who are the most worried about how others will make them feel about their weight, seem to generally be the kind that worry less about how they make a guy feel. I've had fattys ask me with real concern if I thought they were fat AFTER they've put me down and rejected me. This is bewildering. If women care more about intimacy than looks, then why on earth are they so ridiculously fussy? I do think guys can act like they think they're something but most of them don't think as highly of themselves as it appears. Women seem to know how attractive they are but from my observation reviewing their ratings of men on rating sites, they rate men lower on average than men rate women. So a fatty that's a 6 might actually see a muscular guy, in good shape, to also be a 6. If she sees a little fat on him, she might compare it to hers until you take a picture of the two of them together to show her. Then it's that pictures add 20lbs to her weight! Ha! Men seem more eager to get women and that does hurt them in terms of getting something within their league. Women now days don't need men and daycare can be farmed out to raise the kids. Prescribed drugs can discipline the kids, and child support can take the place of love.

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    6. IMHO, women have finally caught up to men in the "unwilling to settle down in case something better comes along" department. Truth is women refuse to admit it.

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  4. "Ha! That's a new one for why extremely attractive men have sex so much more often than extremely attractive women; they're just not as selective."
    Not True! They are More selective, just that their sex life can be driven with women that only cater to their physical needs - since sex demands less from someone than a stable relationship - while so many women even more beautiful are considered not worthy the effort of a committed relationship because she doesn't have the traits he expects in a spouse(yes, spouse, not girlfriend, eventual dates also demand less than marriage).

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  5. "There are lots of bad marriages. I just don't think this particular reason: experience with prettier men, is a real cause."

    It's not. It's experience with attractive men, which fuels the nagging thought that she has possibly "settled". "Pretty" and "attractive" are not the same things.

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  6. "Do women know this, and high-five each other after sleeping with guys far more attractive than themselves, realizing all the while that they will someday end up marrying a guy that is much less attractive than what they've experienced until he came along?"

    ha, I love considering these things too! Being an INTJ/INFP hybrid is a strange and wild cocktail... one outcome is I get addicted to analyzing human relations via web!

    as to the quote above, I'm fortunate in that regard... I'm female and, naturally subjectively but also as much as I can vouch objectively, I feel confident putting all my chips down that of each of my relationships my husband is the most attractive intellectually/personality-y, physically and sexually. Maybe I have bucked the trend, ha, because I have noticed many non-promiscuous and promiscuous gals do end up 'settling down' with the vanilla-nice-guy-breadwinner, of a slightly less scintillating variety... whereas as per Ladder Theory, they had outlaw bikers in their past, ahaha. It’s a little incompatible.

    My husband’s high ‘rating’ does, honestly, cause extra worry. But you learn to deal with it. I do. And men like some worry, right? I have had to learn this—that it can be a nice experience for all involved to have some worry and to speak it! :-) Everything in balance.

    you can turn it into fun too. When we cross paths with one of our flirty acquaintances, or every time one of our exes calls the house with a shitty attitude... we end up having really hot lovemaking. gotta treat yourself sometimes!

    Y’know, we can prattle all we want, and strive for ideals and fairness... and still, at the end of the day, what do we find but that... Genetics rule. Intractable and joyously ruthless, bringing with it Sturm und Drang and Heraclitean flux.

    Cool by me.

    ~N.

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    1. wtf is an "INTJ/INFP"?

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    2. oh i remember, the personality-type thing.

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    3. Uh...can you really be an INTJ/INFP 'hybrid', or do you just mean that you have a very low preference between T/F and J/P? I mean, I'm an INTP with a very, *very* low J/P preference, but I'm still an INTP, and not an INTP/INTJ hybrid.

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    4. Look at all those smileys - she's an INFP not INTJ.

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  7. You should be very wary about stating that "men are less prone to STD's" - while some STI symptoms may not be apparent in men, it still makes them just as likely as contracting them (and in fact they should be more wary, since some STI's are symptomless for them).

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  8. This is strange haha, I mean..if I look back honestly (and I haven't had sexual relationships with many men)..the men I have had what one may define as "casual sex with" I and my friends have deemed less attractive than myself (alcohol). The men I have had relationships however I would consider 8/10 (or at least would have at the time), perhaps more. However, it can be difficult for me personally to assess physical attractiveness in men and even myself and it all comes down to what you have described as "personal taste"..also I think when you are in the midst of infatuation or love you might determine them as being more attractive than they are and later look back post split and think "what the hell was I doing?"...
    I have been offered by a previous boyfriend that I am a "9/10". There are just so many factors to be taken into consideration when rating...

    Also, in a way I think as fun it is to think of playing "out of your league" or what one might consider to be, I find dating guys who think you are above them in that respect to be a nightmare as they are generally more jealous and possessive. In addition, a guy I might deem to be out of my league..going out with him I'd feel miserable a lot of the time because I know that there are plenty of temptations available to him and I feel nervous and insecure.

    A friend once told me it's wise to go 2 points below your league and never above your league. I haven't really tested this theory out, I tend to choose men largely on personality...a 5/10 can become a 9/10 easily with a decent, unique character..

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    1. There are some studies that that indicate that happiest marriages are the ones where the woman is objectively more attractive than the man.

      Which makes sense when you think about it.

      The woman is being forever courted by a man that KNOWS he has to work his ass off to keep her.

      While the man gets to bang a hottie on a regular basis.

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    2. to: oct. 23 2012 anon...
      you're dumb

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    3. to: oct. 23 2012 anon...
      you're right

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    4. Yup! Tis true. I do prefer men who will appreciate what they have far far more than the good looking dude. And, I am considered hot....just saying.

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    5. I agree that it is more comfortable to be with someone not so much in demand but the problem is that a guy usually has to deal with that nightmare insecurity problem even when she's 2 points lower. I wish all you gals would post pictures of you and the guys you think you're comparable too. It might be educational and quite possibly a good laugh even. :-)

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    6. AnonymousOctober 23, 2012 at 11:55 PM

      You are an idiot. No matter how "hot" a woman is, if she's banged the whole town then she is practically a non-existent marriage prospect to any guy who is average or higher. Always beware the woman that randomly shows up to a new town for no apparent reason because she's probably a slut that got outed and had to move to get/keep a bf.

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  9. "I often wonder how much this affects girls’ self-perception. Do women know this, and high-five each other after sleeping with guys far more attractive than themselves?"

    Some women brag about sleeping with a hot guy. They are awfully annoying. I suppose it depends on the setting, if the guy is a MUCH higher league and they were 'chosen' in a venue with other, more attractive women, it gives some validation. But in general, most women know better than to brag about casual sex. Women whom are in a LTR with, or married to a top notch guy are the ones with the most status.
    Part of the problem is that many women think men have much higher standards for f-buddies, FWBs, flings and casual arrangements than they have for ONS. So even though a guy doesn't want to date you, they think having a top league FWB means you can get a similar guy for marriage. When in reality it does not.
    I know several women in their 30s who's been sleeping around and have gotten used to having a hot, rich lover in every city. They are attractive enough, but never find a husband - and I'm confident they don't want to settle with a guy with less.

    I think a lot of women would agree with what you're writing, but not see it in their own lives. Especially if they've been sleeping with someone while hoping for it to turn into something more. Men are obviously very good at faking genuine interest. When the casual relationship ends, they are more likely to blame it on another factor than him being out of their league.

    Out of curiosity - do you think men have different standards from ONS to FWB to dating? I've always been thinking that the only real distinction is between a monogamous relationship/marriage and "the rest", i.e. there are girls you'd go monogamous for and there are "the others", but maybe I'm wrong.

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    1. "i.e. there are girls you'd go monogamous for and there are "the others", but maybe I'm wrong."

      I can only give the single opinion of me, a man.

      But that is precisely how I see the sexual market place.

      There are women I would raise kids with, and then there's everyone else.

      I do, however, suspect that for most men the same binary distinction takes president.

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  10. How do you know when you are batting too far above your league. I've been asked out a few times by a man in a high status job...who is a year younger than me, we are both late twenties. He is good looking and does not seem a ladies man but I feel like it would be almost too much effort and trouble to go out with a man like him.

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  11. Hmm, I have yet to hook up with and date men in my own league, let alone hotter! I have a couple of weeks left till my 30th birthday, and was hoping I could hook up with at least one hot (clean) white guy before then, lol. ( I got out of a 9 year relationship last year) I still think attractiveness is subjective, but based one what you I see you guys writing online, someone could consider me anywhere from a 7-9.5

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    1. I wish you would post a picture of you and a guy you think may not be your league. Yes, it's subjective but subjective in ways that many people agree on.

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  12. "which means that women are usually sleeping with men that are 1 to 3 points higher than themselves"

    That depends entirely where you are on the scale though. You have to be 7 or less for there to be someone 3 points higher :)
    Sure all men have different taste, but if you're in the higher end, you'll be 9 or 10 to some men out there. Isn't this post more true for women who don't present themselves too well or are slightly older? If you're 23 and very good looking I can't imagine there being a very large discrepancy between the men you sleep with casually and those you end up in LTRs/marriage with. Given that the woman goes out with men who finds her very attractive and according to their taste.

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  13. This post is as true 23 year old good looking woman. She is not likely to marry at 23 in today's society so by the time she does end up married she will be "slightly" older..if you want to look at it from that perspective.

    Women who don't present themselves well but have the "raw" materials, if you will, can be just as good looking as that 23 year old if they so decide to tap into their potential. The slightly older woman will still be ranked extremely highly by men if she was good looking to begin with. Some of the most beautiful women in the world are slightly older (mid/late twenties-early thirties) and probably a hell of a lot more interesting too.

    Also it's all contextual. That 30 year old "older" woman might be a 30 year old's 6-7/10 but she could well be a 9-10/10 queen to a 22 year old or 43 year old.

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  14. I completely agree with this blog. Women nowadays do seem to think that simply because a guy out of their league will sleep with them that they can actually have a relationship with this type of man. Then they wonder why the guy cheats on them. Today's harem society where 80% of women sleep with 20% of the males (alpha males, physically) is the main cause. Women say they don't care about looks but nothing could be further from the truth. Frankly, I've given up on ever getting married because why would I want to marry a woman in my thirties when she would have rejected me point blank in my twenties. What now that you're willing to settle I should just fall for you? Meanwhile knowing that you've probably slept with 10-20 men which in my books is a whore. Women need to wake up and start acting like women, not sluts. For all the good guys out there that have been screwed throughout their twenties, forget about the white picket fence family dream, don't get hitched, keep the money, ride the desperate 30s ladies without commitment and live life alone. Women these days aren't worth it.

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    1. Marry a younger woman.

      So what if the gorgeous, feminine, 25 year old woman who wants to bear your children wouldn't have given you the time of day when you were 25?

      Your not 25 anymore. She's not the 34 year old that laughed hysterically when you asked her to homecoming.

      This is how gender relations work/worked without the guiding hand of a a civilized society. Play your cards right and you can come out a real winner.

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    2. Ok. First of all, it is 2012. Not 1812. Women are no longer dependent on men for survival and so the nature of sexual relationships has changed. If you can't handle that, if the fact that a woman is free and in control of her own sexuality, if the number of her sexual partners is paramount in your estimation of her worth, then maybe you are the one who isn't worth it. Perhaps you need to reevaluate your puerile little attitude toward women and let go of your obviously rejection-filled past so that you can at least interact with women in a slightly less misogynist frame. You utter philistine.

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    3. Too many frustrated men on this site... ;(

      ;)... hahahahaha

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    4. Sorry, but a women's sexual history is part of her SMP value and has been proven to be an indicator of her future fidelity and loyalty to her husband.

      To quote Prince Charles' great-uncle, Lord Mountbatten: "the man should sow his wild oats and have as many affairs as he can before settling down, but for a wife he should choose a suitable, attractive, and sweet-charactered girl before she has met anyone else she might fall for ... It is disturbing for women to have experiences if they have to remain on a pedestal after marriage."

      It's strange, but I only hear loose women complain about the double standard :o ;)

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    5. Anonymous,

      the sad things was that Charles did marry a younger, sweetheart but his heart belong to another. So, being a virgin bride doesn't means that your husband will love you and to many men, love is more important then a virginity.

      I do agree that men judges women on this, and girls should be aware of it. Moreover, the assumption here is that the man is in fact handsome and accomplished.

      No virgin would want to marry a 40 loser that lives in his parents basement.

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  15. To answer your question, yes, first I high five myself in the bathroom mirror while I'm cleaning up right after...and then I high five my girlfriends later while I'm dishing the details over beers.

    ...that being said - is it any wonder I'm voraciously reading your blog while trying to dissect my utter failure at securing a guy worth dating?

    Banging out of my league is overrated. At the end of the day, it results in trophy stories, but never getting a call-back is a drag. Looking forward to wielding the knowledge I've gained here. You have no idea how helpful it is to get straight talk. My girl friends tell me that "I'm just too independent and intimidate men" but what I really needed to hear was "Guys think you're a slut. Rein it in!" So seriously - THANK YOU

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    1. Damn, I really like the honesty here. That was hot. And it's good that you have really come to accept this fact of life. I believe if you do lower those standards a little bit and find a guy who cares about you instead of just aiming for the hottest guy you can land, that you'll have a good future and marriage in mind. Oh ha btw- just because he says he cares doesn't mean he does- you need to find somebody between your level and only 1 point higher, any more than that is a definite hook up only on his part. Go get em tiger

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    2. Depends on what phase of life youre going thru. If a woman is just looking for sex, physical intimacy then the fact that she can get men better looking than herself is a huge advantage.

      I can see plenty of mediocre looking, obese girls high fiving each other that they can bang hot guys.

      http://www.xojane.com/sex/i-look-a-lot-like-lena-dunham-and-ive-banged-super-hot-dudes

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    3. I find it interesting how many men read this blog and make comments about how the grand solution to dating woes is that women need to lower their standards. Wouldn't that be so convenient and beneficial for men? And isn't that a woman's most important role? To make it easier for men to have sex with, date, or marry women out of their league? NO! A real man..an attractive man..will improve upon himself to increase his chances at success, rather than whining about his inadequacy and blaming it on women.

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    4. "wouldn't that be so convenient and beneficial for men?"

      not really. women dropping their own expectations a fraction would be more for their own benefit, to maximize the chances of their man committing. alpha males often have the trump card (wealth of available vagina) and the bluff card (deluded women with high expectations think alpha may offer commitment after plied with lots of sex). so when the chips are down, this deal is for women that are either playing it safe, or already lost vast quantity of their own chips (read: smv/beauty/reputation). not all men are to be coaxed into this, though. if there is a sniff of foul play, male is likely to fold and cash in.

      men in this situation would get their ego tickled more, provided they can exert enough leverage so that the women won't make them into doormats.

      it's a better deal for women, since they would probably find more compatibility, if slightly less based on raw attraction.

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  16. It's interesting that you say it's more common for men to sleep with women who are relatively less attractive than they are. I think that might be true, TOO, because men are more wired up to pursue sexually in an indiscriminate manner, generally, and in the throes of a highly-expressed libido, aesthetic standards are lowered.

    However, since beauty/looks is inarguably more of a commodity for women than it is for men, I normally see and thus assume that women sleep with men who are less attractive than them quite often. And for different reasons.

    If a man has many other traits that a woman finds "sexy" or attractive, then suddenly a man's looks matter far LESS to her. Women enjoy good-looking men, but it often isn't a premium requirement, rather a plus. Whereas, women can't negotiate a looks trade-off in this manner given that they have other great qualities going on to attract men. It is common to see plain or even "ugly" male media figures with women who are considered above average to beautiful, because the men have other assets that attract those women.

    I'd look at the celebrity arena as a macrocosm of everyday people. It's just hyperbolized. It's what everyday men and women wish they can do, explore, pursue, or depict, given that they have the options that rich media figures have to really express their inner desires and fantasies. As I've always believed and said, people tend to define themselves more so by their limitations or lack of opportunities...

    Anyway, the longstanding icon of "Beauty and the Beast" is not just a nice theme for a fairy tale or storytelling premise, I think it's inspired by the social dynamics of reality. Therefore, it becomes even a plausible and sentimental fairy tale.

    Turn even that fairy tale around to make the beast a woman and the beauty a man, and suddenly it's not such a beloved fairy tale, but one where people find themselves feeling rubbed the wrong way and "disturbed."

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    1. "I'd look at the celebrity arena as a macrocosm of everyday people. It's just hyperbolized. It's what everyday men and women wish they can do, explore, pursue, or depict, given that they have the options that rich media figures have to really express their inner desires and fantasies."

      Ha! I've always thought this too. In general though I agree with most of what you've said in your comment, though I don't think it goes directly against anything in my post. Maybe I should have clarified that by league I meant "physical attractiveness league."

      You write well.

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    2. There are not as many attractive men as there are attractive women on this planet. The ratio is 1 to 10. So, yes a woman might be lucky to have sex with a man who is her league!!!

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  17. This is bunch of BS. I am a female and I have slept mostly with men who were below my league because I have gone for the personality. They have a been one two that were right at my league though, it felt good, like we could make really good looking babies. I never go for above the league, I don't think those men are attracted to me anyways, I technically I cannot go for them, I will get rejected!

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    1. I bet you'd be surprised at your success - assuming your conception of "your league" is accurate.

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    2. haha yea she would definitely be surprised.

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  18. I am a gorgeous 36 year old kind hearted, well educated, financially independent woman. Dated less attractive guys with nothing to offer. They were always broke. I always had to help them out financially. Then I married a less attractive broke guy for love and 13 years and 2 kids later I am divorced as this less attractive man refused to grow up and work hard or spend time with the kids and I: he prefered his friends. I am financially comfortable and still Hot but all I get are ugly guys wanting sex. Its not even the good looking ones but wait, I live in a town with no good looking guys. The last guy I dated was very much less attractive and way below my league but the sex was mind blowing. This one wasnt broke, he just stayed in a corner. Someone, what am I missing?

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    1. Ya, Andrew....where's your answer for that one? Or are you ever going to admit that rather than there being anomalous circumstances to YOUR theories, you are actually the anomaly and most other people just don't apply.

      Men all think they're super attractive. That's why their "2 or 3 points below" their own standards are still above a ten. Hard to miss when you think you're a 19 or 20. Don't you agree?

      -Nicole

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    2. Bullshit, guys are much more accurate at assessing their mate value then women are at assessing their own. Why? Because men are the one's who have to actual sell themselves in the mating market. Now, that doesn't mean that they won't try to inflate the perception of their value when trying to make the sale. In common parlance it is known as puffery. But that mere puffery doesn't mean that the man doesn't actually know his true value. You think the car salesman who tells you the beat up 1980's Ford is as smooth and attractive as a Lamborghini actually believes the bullshit he's telling you?

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    3. You have kids. Damaged goods.

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    4. Chris is right.

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    5. Look, I am saying this from a position of love: you kind of sound like a bitch. I'm not saying that you were wrong about your husband's inadequacies, mind you; but it sounds like you instinctively seek out relationships where you are the clear superior because it strokes your ego to be in control. Statements like

      "I am financially comfortable and still Hot but all I get are ugly guys wanting sex. Its not even the good looking ones but wait, I live in a town with no good looking guys."

      are kind of a dead give-away. Of course there are good-looking guys in your town, just like there are smart ones and nice ones and rich ones. They're probably avoiding you because you scare them away. You need to eat a nice, big, hot slice of humble pie, get over yourself, find some hobbies or interests, and start meeting men as people.

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    6. Hello

      In a sense you are actually in a fortunate position- a BIG fish in a
      little pond. It appears that men in your town probably realize that they are subpar but they also realize that you have no choice(and in small towns women often are lke this). I live in a similar situation in a small town and the men have no choice.

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    7. It sounds to me like you aren't nearly as hot as you sound, otherwise a rich guy or a hotter guy would have made you his girl. Honesty here

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  19. This post reminded me of another post you wrote saying that "we project our own ideas of attractiveness onto the opposite sex". Some women do this, but I think some men do it too. Men are visual, and some guys do genuinely believe looks matter a lot more to woman than it actually does. At least than it does to me.
    I am not very visual when it comes to men - I need him to be in good shape, I care about his overall 'look' and I am probably more into a particular sense of style, but overall, confidence, humor, success and a sense of 'worldliness' will always compensate for what other girls refer to as 'average' looks (I don't THINK I date average-looking men, but I have come to realize their personality/background make them better-looking to me).
    A couple of friends have told me several times that men I date are not good-looking enough for me, girls who are undoubtedly more visual than I am.

    But this has to be a phenomenon for men as well? Even a couple of guys I dated whom were rich, confident and charismatic sometimes behaved as if I had the upper hand. I imagine this is because they think looks matter more to women than it does? So who has the upper hand must clearly depend on how people perceive themselves and whether they are actually aware of what the opposite sex wants?

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    Replies
    1. Yours is a good observation, and I see this happen a lot. Men think their looks matter a ton because they place so much emphasis on a woman's looks. I think you are right in your last statement (even though you frame it as a question) that self-perception AND a person's understanding of the other's preferences both play a role in responses to sexual attraction.

      Delete
    2. If you agree with what I wrote above, doesn't this fact interfere a bit with the other advice you give?
      Although I agree with most of your posts, I have a problem with this one, as well as "The upper hand in relationships" and "Don't initiate contact". The advice seems quite rigid, as if a man will always have the upper hand, he will be aware he has it, and so will the woman. That is not necessarily the case.
      You mentioned in a post that you run the risk of discouraging a man by placing too many hurdles in front of him. But the ONLY solution you offered to this was "don't date below your league" (i.e. drop him), which is a bit too easy, at least for adult women who come across players too often, and good men too rarely.

      A small amount of projection is a good thing. Not in order to attract the opposite sex (in that case it is a negative), but in order to fall for someone with different qualities than yourself. The successful, long-term relationships, if you have ever observed one, consist of a couple where both parties feel as if they have a "good deal". Not one where the man has the upper hand. Their tendency to project will help them, for example: the man is thinking "she is so beautiful, I can't believe she would go for an average looking guy like me", she is thinking "he is so confident and successful, I can't believe he'd go for a shy, awkward girl like me".

      It is completely possible for a woman to date a man who considers himself below her when he is actually a good catch for her. The advice you give here denies that, and secondly encourages a woman to drive a guy like that away (by not making any initiatives, telling herself that he is not interested etc).
      I sometimes find the advice here a bit too one-dimensional. Could be that men have the "upper hand" more often than not, but I don't think I am talking about an insignificant minority in the situation I described. Not from personal experience (where I have driven interested men away) and not from friends' opinions (men and women, who ALL claim that beyond 3 or 4 dates, a woman should initiate as well).

      Delete
  20. I really liked your post and I'm glad I stumbled across your blog... An unapologetic, straight shooter. I like that.

    I happen to have been discussing this "league" dating issue with someone not long ago, and I have a dilemma!

    I am a woman in my early 40's. I know that I look younger than most women my age, (I am often told I look early to mid 30's) I think I'm attractive (A solid 7 or MAYBE an 8?) I'm no 10, so I'm always surprised to hear men use use words like "gorgeous" to describe me. Although currently a few pounds heavier than I usually am, I'm HWP, and it helps that I'm blonde and fairly fashionable. It's not uncommon for me to get admiring looks pretty much anywhere I go. A girl can tell when men are attracted, and men often seem to be attracted to me. (I'm not trying to sound conceited here, I'm trying to make a point! :)

    But even if they are attracted, they don't approach me for a date/digits. Even attractive men who seem attracted to me. I think I seem approachable, but very rarely do they do anything other than look/stare and when they do, it's someone twenty years younger than me, riding high on testosterone. I have a dating profile/s but I get many emails from men I would not date and it's hard to find the ones I would... I try to be nice, and it's time consuming! Lol! When I have actually gone on dates, they act all... Well, I just can't describe it. Seems like no one can be "normal" about dating, and that bugs me! (Normal= calling every few days, asking for a date; NOT normal= calling every few hours, asking where I've been) So I frequently have to cut things after the first date.

    I think my problem is that I have been going out with men who are "below" my number/league (or they think they are) and the ones in my league don't try to approach me. Am I crazy, or does this happen? Are guys like that? And if so, how do I get around it?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Here comes the hit from Occam's Razor: either (a) some strange phenomenon is preventing attractive men from approaching you to ask you out, or (b) your league is lower than you think.

      Men will look at women to check them out (revealing attraction), but this does not mean they have any interest in dating.

      I suggest taking a broad overview of all the men you've met in the last year, and pegging your "league" somewhere in that range. This doesn't mean you can't improve it, but it would give you a more realistic starting point and expectations.

      Delete
    2. Lol! Trust me, that point didn't sail past me before you brought it to my attention...! Lol! I tend to be insecure, so it took a lot of courage for me to assert myself and say that which I don't personally feel, but what I am told over and over. Maybe I can send you some pics and you can tell me where you think my "range" should be? ;) In the meantime, my reply...

      I'm new to a small town where "everyone knows everyone". I don't have a social circle, so I don't go out with girlfriends a lot. There are very few single people in my town, because around here most people get married right out of high school. There are some divorced people, but not many, and they are in their fifties and sixties. Lol so there are reasons why it's hard to meet men around here! Even with those obstacles, men have hit on me. If I'm to gauge their league in attractiveness alone, I would say that I'm all right, because they were cute!! Not exactly datable, in my opinion, but very good looking. (Too young for my liking, or married, or whatever.) The other guys I have been out with (because we met online or wherever, not because they approached me) were also very attractive, but after one date, they get very clingy and weird, so I didn't want to continue that. Attractiveness-wise? yes, they are there. Lol so if you are asking if I'm "worth" approaching, I think it's a yes, I'm trying to say. But maybe you're right! I should probably drop down even further than I have been. I guess you're the expert, so you'd have to tell me.

      A side note: as random as chaos may be, there is order to be found within it. Seems quite implausible, but you are intelligent, and you know it's true. Just remember that while, generally speaking, the simplest explanation is most likely the right one, sometimes it's the implausible explanation which is the reality, my friend...!

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    3. I forgot to mention that the places I get looks but no approaches are not social places. They are places like the grocery store, Home Depot, etc. Places where people are doing things, not there to meet people. Maybe that has something to do with it, too.

      Delete
    4. That probably has a lot to do with it.

      Delete
  21. You notice how all fat women have skinny boyfriends but you never see fat men with skinny gfs (unless they are really rich or famous) women always date up in terms of looks and men date down.

    a woman can be 500 lbs and still have no shortage of men in line for her but if a man falls an inch below 6 foot he is screwed. it is way harder to be considered attractive as a man that it is a woman. besides women use make up to bring them up 1-3 points on the looks scale. fuck the dating scene!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yea. But guys dont have to worry about a gut or face lines because they have facial hair, or menapause or what bra to wear or the emotional ties with sex.
      Get over it.

      Delete
    2. "a woman can be 500 lbs and still have no shortage of men in line for her but if a man falls an inch below 6 foot he is screwed. "

      Now, you know that's not true...

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    3. The guy is right. The girl up top who says "get over it" first of all, nobody cares about face lines. Guys care about your weight, overall facial structure, etc. Make up covers it just fine.

      And menopause? That doesn't affect your looks any more than ANDROPAUSE for men, which is what men suffer when they get older.

      Guys don't have to worry about a gut? Excuse me? Yes guys can get a "gut" just like women can. Were you just hoping people wouldn't take the time to read and analyze the BS reasoning you gave?

      And what bra you wear? haha girl is that a joke? No guy will decline you for a date because of what BRA you wear. Sorry honey.

      Us men don't deserve to be judged for our height, simply bcause you women ALSO judge each other mercilessly on your bras. Because us GUYS don't CARE about bras. Literally. Wear a f*cking bath towel and do a tiki dance for us as you take it off, its all good

      Delete
  22. Bullshit. A lot more attractive women are dating unattractive and even ugly guys. But it's true that guys usually overrate themselves.

    Open your eyes! Grow up!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yep, we are, because men are visual, we are more verbal. A not so good looking man who has the way with words: I fall.The not so pretty face becomes beautiful in my eyes (later on, when passion has faded, I may wake up and wonder what happened and what I saw in him. But that's then.
      Ann

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    2. Women love security and that means $. Its easier to convince herself to date a rich 66 year old dude so she can be like - do i go to work or ask my sugardaddy to pay for my shopping? Then they are 'free' to cheat on dinosaurs w me 36 yoa attorney with hollywood looks and 20+ years in the gym. And then when you wake up, you get a divorce, and settle for a 25-40 years old sexual maniac bc now you have $ecurity...and if he sleeps around its all cool, you did it too. You hear? ;)

      Delete
  23. Don't be so humble (joke)
    I'm a girl, and all of my girlfriends get together and laugh about having sex with dumb ass guys. Guys who think they are hot and expect us to just fall all over them.
    Why do you guys think you're so special and that we want you to care? Women are getting smarter, and less want men for long term relationships.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi There! Why waste time having sex with dumb assed guys?

      Delete
    2. Because it's SEX, doofus!

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    3. I predict you're under 30.

      but you go on with your bad self! I'd be getting a lot less sex without girls who think like you. seriously if you truly are happy whoring it up then as far as guys are concerned it's win win. I wish more girls were like you.

      Delete
    4. You girls may be laughing but guys are having the last laugh because we get our nut and you girls damage yourselves emotionally, its proven whether you are confident enough to admit it or not, you're damaged goods inside. have fun with that one huh? ;)

      Delete
    5. Women are getting smarter (implies you were dumb before) and less want men for long term relationship? Women are getting smarter, no doubt. See you with 2 kids on welfare in 10 years without a supportive husband and then tell me again - women are getting smarter?

      Delete
  24. I gotta say, I really disagree with this one. I always see couples where the girl is more attractive than the guy. Maybe you are talking about one night stands or something but I don't think this is accurate when it comes to relationships. If anything, I think it's the other way around. I live in NYC, maybe it's different here. I also think that if a man really wants to get laid he could go for someone less attractive but I feel like guys rarely do this. I think people are generally very ambitious and go for the hottest girl even if they might be wise to do otherwise.

    ReplyDelete
  25. What if a guy is a 0 or 3, but convince an inexperience, naive girl that he is a 10? I think that a lot of girls are just naive, and they sleeps with guys that are really beneath their standards.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. yep, and/or with low self-esteem

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    2. Looks are looks, you can't "convince," a woman you're better looking. This only works if we're not talking about looks.

      Delete
  26. What is "revealing attraction ". The answer you gave the 40 something female. I belive I suffer from this too. Men tell me I am gorgeous. I know it's not true. My grandfather described me as a " handsome" women and I belive that's what I am. The years have softened that look but it is stil true.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A handsome woman is the same as a gorgeous woman... different generational language, that's all.

      Delete
    2. Well thank you! I will take those compliments now. :)

      Delete
    3. Revealing attraction is checking someone out blatantly enough and long enough for them to catch on that you're checking them out.

      Delete
  27. Knowing women, I'm going to guess they are unaware.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Handsome is more related to harmony of proportions, dignity, gracefulness, elegance.
    Gorgeous means beautiful; very attractive.

    ReplyDelete
  29. I know I'm commenting on an older post here, but I've been reading this blog all day and after reading all the stuff about improving appearance, I want to ask a question about this. So if, as you say, feminine beauty is mostly controllable and a woman can approve her appearance anywhere from 1-3 points with enough effort... wouldn't that mean that she's technically capable of getting and keeping the guys she has casual sex with, if she maximizes her appearance?

    Sorry, that may come off as super mathematical. Obviously this isn't considering potential hindering factors (e.g., if the girl doesn't truly MAXIMIZE appearance efforts).

    I guess my question is- by improving/maximizing your appearance, you can potentially put yourself in the same league as the men you have casual sex with. But theoretically, don't you have to be out of their league to be able to expect commitment from them? In which case... we can never get the men we want? Or, as another someone here commented, do the lines get blurrier and blurrier the higher up "the scale" you go? (like, a 9 guy and a 9 girl).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You can maximize your potential to attract men who want more than casual sex with you, how's that?

      Delete
  30. More evidence for Women get to play out of their league.
    (You won't hear any feminists demanding social equality between men and women here. And that's just how hey want it. Unequal)

    http://www.counselheal.com/articles/3898/20130214/more-women-want-sex-higher-standards-gender.htm

    "A new study reveals that the more women want sex, the more they up their standards when choosing a short-term mate.
    Researchers found that this is in direct contrast to statistics for men, after they study revealed that men are more likely to lower their standards the more "sexually hyperactive" they become."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. But men arbitrarily raise and lower their standards depending on what's available to them at any given time. It's not all to do with how much sex they get overall. And obviously a man with more options will raise his standards, not lower them.

      I can see a reason why a woman would raise standards for a short-term mate. Casual sex is not an easy leap for many woman, so you have to justify it somehow. Having casual sex with someone really hot makes you look higher value/more discerning and less 'easy' as well as getting some cred from your group of friends. For example, I know some women who'd mock another woman for sexing someone who is generally unappealing...i.e. "Ew you must be desperate to get with him". That will turn into "Wow I'm super jealous" if you sleep with someone deemed to be highly attractive. These types of conversations happen when you're a teenage girl.

      I actually think it isn't always about entitlement (which you seem to imply) and more about how we get on with other women and preserving our social reputation whilst doing something somewhat base.

      Delete
    2. "I can see a reason why a woman would raise standards for a short-term mate. Casual sex is not an easy leap for many woman"

      But why is it not an easy leap? It is for men.

      "you have to justify it somehow"

      I prefer the term explain but justify can work.

      "Having casual sex with someone really hot makes you look higher value/more discerning and less 'easy' as well as getting some cred from your group of friends."

      Why does this occur? Why is greater value attached to women's sex than men's?

      "I actually think it isn't always about entitlement (which you seem to imply)"

      That's not what I'm implying.

      "and more about how we get on with other women and preserving our social reputation"

      Why is doing that necessary to preserve your reputation? Again why is women's sex deemed more valuable and worse to waste than men's sex?

      The answer to all my questions is men and women have evolved to be different and we have evolved different social norms to deal with those evolved differences.

      What I was implying was that feminists are scumbag hypocrites whose only concern is about removing or ameliorating the effects of social norms that differ between men and women that aren't to a woman's advantage (generally upper-middle class white women) while doing nothing about social norms that differ between men and women but are to a woman's advantage, all the while justifying their actions under the banner of equality.

      The example I used above was to show that while the inequalities that occur in the short-term mating market where women distribute their sex all to the top guys rather than distributing it equally to all men will go ignored by feminists who "seek equality", while those same feminists will froth at the mouth when men refuse to marry their "equals" (aka 35+ year old banged out career women) and hence refuse to distribute commitment equally (that is without regard to the mating value of the person in question).

      Or put simply, feminists aren't for equality, they are for inequality in favor of women.

      (In due course, I actually agree that women who pursue STR's should go for the best guys, it make evolutionary sense. What I don't like is when self-righteous hypocritical feminists then come in and try and spread false and evil propaganda to subvert social norms to their own advantage and exploit men.)

      Delete
  31. Wow, this is really insightful. Great post. A great follow-up educational post for women would be "How to tell what league you are in."

    ReplyDelete
  32. A lot of men reading this just realized that their wives "settled" for them. They just went from thinking they were great cause they managed to get a good looking wife just learned that their wife knows she's hotter than them. Their egos just got checked as they realized their wife has been with much hotter men. That's why they are so eager to attack women and put them down for women knowing they are hot because it puts them in heck for their over inflated egos.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hate to break it to you, but that's entirely not the point.

      The point was:

      Women when they are young, go for guys 1-3 point hotter. So a 6 woman, would hook up or short term date a 7, 8, or 9 guy.

      Whereas older women will finally come crashing back down to earth, and date a guy who's a 6 or low 7 just like them.

      It isn't saying that the man is "lower value" than the woman, just saying that hes realistic and actually on her level, as opposed to the much hotter guys she was banging before.

      Delete
  33. Interesting post. This completely terrifies me because I get approached and asked out by both incredibly handsome and unattractive men on a regular basis. I now fear that I have over estimated my "looks" because according to this post, men of far superior appearances are simply trying (and failing) to bed me.

    Anyway, in a comment you stated that a woman should look at her previous suitors in order to assess which "league" she belongs in. I have had two serious relationships. All of my friends drilled it in my head that I was far better looking than my ex, though I was incredibly attracted to him. Five years later as I've grown out of my teen years and into womanhood, I realize that holds true. The second man I was involved with looked like he walked straight out of a GQ magazine. I've seen drop dead gorgeous women make absolute fools of themselves for him. He'd hold his own in a room with Daniel Craig and David Beckham (possibly even get more attention).

    What I'm asking is that these two men are on the opposite sides of spectrum, so how do I assess my own league? The first one looked like a football player. The second one looked like a Calvin Klein model. I'd like to consider that I'm in a similar league as the 2nd man, considering the first one I was involved with I was a lot younger and about 20 pounds heavier. But this post left me a little unsure.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Is league defined by looking or social status?

    How about a woman in higher scale of looking settling with a man less attractive in looking yet with higher social status?

    In this case, who is above whose league?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. They might be the same league, depending on how attractive, confident, funny, wealthy and successful he is or how hot she is.
      Since men and women have different preferences, a 'league' is not the same to them both. A man's league is defined by the traits I listed, a woman's league is her age, attractiveness and personality.
      Of course a lot of people misjudge their own league, so it doesn't matter if a woman is hot enough to get a rich guy, if he considers himself to out of her league.

      Delete
  35. Hello

    This blog is so accurate it's scary. What bothers me are the women that think
    that this is "bullshit". It's probably due to another trait of women-
    Monstorous falsehood! A woman will even lie to herself! I am muscular man in his early 50's and get attention from women that are 20 years younger than me.
    Still i will go overseas for a wife. These people have priced themselves out of the market.

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    Replies
    1. Not many women like men over 50 yrs old no matter how much money he has unless they are 50yrs old themselves ie. viagra. Its like father age. And men tend to break down at this age,.

      Delete
    2. Sorry to be honest but i am not "typical". I am in good shape and muscular and look about 8-10 years younger (according to some). I am come on to by women 10-20 years younger all the time.Most women in my town are "fatties" and that i guess makes it easier.A good looking self confident women (8-10) will typically not be interested in men so much older and that includes me. We just don't have that in this town.

      Delete
  36. I'm not denying the existence of leagues, but how tragic is it that we place scores and value people based on looks and superficiality.. I mean, who cares THAT much about looks to really spend the time organising it into "leagues"? Are we stuck in high school or something? Of course looks have to meet a minimum threshold for at least some physical attraction, but surely what holds together a real relationship is character, values, interests, personality and so forth - isn't that obvious? Yet the league mentality basically embraces the logic of "it isn't what's on the inside that counts, it's the outside".
    To be honest, I never think about who's in and out of my league, I'll let other people bother about such silly, petty classifications. Maybe it's my own challenging life experiences and coming close to death that gives me utter contempt over silly little things like leagues...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "To be honest, I never think about who's in and out of my league, I'll let other people bother about such silly, petty classifications."

      I doubt most people go around thinking about leagues on a day to day basis. Leagues just exist. Leagues are just another way of saying there are different levels of attractiveness, which is undeniable for all sexual creatures.

      I think ppl usually only start considering leagues when they have a problem that pertains to it, such as not being able to get someone they want.

      Delete
    2. To be honest, I never think about who's in and out of my league,

      Women dont have to worry about leagues when they are hooking up, having casual sex, FwB, booty calls, flings etc. Any mediocre looking young woman can easily have No strings sexual relationships with men much better than herself.

      We men are painfully aware of the women who are not sexually interested in us, because they are too many of them.



      Delete
    3. Tim,
      It so easy for most men to improve themselves to be sexually attractive, like a magnet, to women. I don't know why men don't do this, maybe they don't introspect? I went through a period of introspection 2 years ago and figured out how to make myself more attractive to men, and every single thing on Andrew's 3 lists in his blog I figured out on my own and did. And I went from a 5 to an 8-9 and turn heads whenever I go out.
      Tip for men to improve their attractiveness:
      1. Project supreme confidence.
      If you don't have it now, after you do the other things on the list, you will feel great about yourself and the confidence will feel natural. Women will feel that confidence and want to know, who IS that guy?
      2. Exercise. Join a gym. The elliptical does wonders for burning calories. Lift weights. Have the gym personal trainer give you a run-through so you know what you are doing. Go at least 3 times a week. A rockin bod will shoot your confidence level off the charts. It did for me. And the attention you will get will give you great incentive to maintain your physique.
      3. Don't eat any wheat products, period (no bread, pasta, pizza, etc.). Watch your belly fat fall away in just a couple months. (I actually filter out men based on whether they have a belly because it says something about their character. Shows lack of discipline, which me is a huge turnoff.)
      4. Pay attention to your clothing. Don't wear t-shirts with crazy pictures or sayings, keep them simple. In fact, only wear t-shirts when you are outdoors being athletic or working out. T-shirts are sloppy. Look at men in your town/city who project confidence, make a lot of money, etc. and observe what they wear. Nice button downs with jeans or well-cut khakhi (dark is better) for example. Men who are 'something' dress like they are something.
      5. Don't wear sneakers with your jeans or khakis. Screams douche. Try out some boots - western, work boots, etc. There's a wide range. You don't have do go for loafers to look good. Boots look totally hot and project confidence.
      6. Keep your hair groomed. If you wear it short, don't let it get shaggy. Get it cut regularly, weekly if need be. I love crew cuts myself on men, high and tight. If you're going bald, no biggie. Bald men are hot, especially when they rock a hot body - just keep the bald maintained weekly, don't let the fringe grow out. If you have longer or shoulder-length hair (to each their own but I think this looks less manly and more type B) then keep it well groomed.
      7. Smile. I love it when men catch my eye in the supermarket and smile. Makes them seem very confident.
      There's more, but I guarantee if you at least do the above, in a few months you'll be turning women's heads.

      Delete
    4. Cate

      Thankyou for your advice.

      But it only works if you are atleast relatively attractive. Which means better looking than 65-70% of men. Below that and you're just invisible to women atleast physically and sexually.

      When you give me these grooming tips, you have relatively attractive 6.5-7 and above men in mind. Not the 40th percentile guy.

      The harsh truth is that these grooming habits are more of a prerequisite nowadays and adopting them just makes you neutral. You just have to follow them in order to not be considered a repulsive person. They cannot cause attraction in women. I'm sorry but this kind of advise is just like saying "You just need to be a decent human being and treat women as equals" . Well, thats just a basic thing. You need to be something over and above that. Please dont mislead men by saying that it can cause sexual attraction.

      I have observed attraction dynamics more closely than perhaps any woman ever could because it directly affects me. Its like studying economics to me. I know of, and can see countless men who follow every thing you mentioned but still they dont sexually attract women.

      You need to be above 70% in looks, you need good body structure and a lifestlye and these things cannot be changed.


      But why am I telling you this? You are a woman. Every woman on this planet can expect to find countless men who find her according to their taste. Women dont have to follow ANY advice you mention and still sexually attract men. They can EAT all the pizzas, fried chicken they want, they can not go to the gym, they can not be arsed about fashion sense and wear a cheap oversized T-shirt and pj's, lay on the couch all day and just make a phone call, and a good looking fuck buddy will come banging at the doorstep...perhaps a new one everyday of the week.

      Atleast acknowledge that its easier for women. Maybe then I will take you advice more seriously. Sorry if I hurt your sensitivities. I know its blasphemous to say that women have it easier.

      Delete
    5. Tim, I respectfully disagree with you. I must defend Cate. Your attractive factor is highly controllable. If women can control theirs as Andrew suggests why can't men?

      I am sensing that you don't believe in your ability to attract the opposite sex - well, women can sense that. Personality is key to attract someone, so if you don't believe in yourself no one else will. Even the most attractive person, stops being attractive if their confidence is low.

      So please believe that you CAN be attractive. Yes, you actually can be attractive.

      One guy I know was a measly 3. He had a very dishevelled appearance to say the least. But he was so confident in himself that he still managed to attracted reasonable looking ladies. Eventually he cleaned up his unkempt look, started going to the gym, eat the right food, dress more appropriately. He turned out to be a 7. No kidding.

      Morale of the story, attractiveness is highly controllable. Sure, you may never be a 10 unless you've got fabulous genes, but you can certainly be a 7 provided you put in some effort.

      Delete
  37. This article states the absolute truth. A study has proven that an attractive woman (doesn't mean that not so attractive women can't, because they can) can go out and ask 4 guys to have sex with her. 3 will say yes on average. The 4th will apologize to not make her feel bad, stating reasons like he's committed / married or gay.
    In contrast, when a physically attractive man does it 20 times, he will not get a single yes. He will get rude responses like "What's wrong with you!? Get lost".
    What the article doesn't state is that there is such a high demand on the hotter girls of a specific age group that they filter out about 98% of men, and the rest has to settle for less, while the hot chicks settle for more. While that's good news for guys like the author and an extremely small percentage of the male population, the rest is really frustrated about it.
    Personally, I am not, just mentioning that the study may be 25 years old but still pinpoint accurate.

    ReplyDelete
  38. It lights up a firecracker up many women's asses when they are told the obvious and unmistakable truth that obtaining casual sex is a lot easier for them.

    A woman can be mediocre looking, obese, short, broke, have low self esteem, and basically have nothing going in life and still get laid left and right with better looking, fit young men.

    The pressures that us men face to look good, to be tall, have great physiques, be very outgoing, confident, and have a lot of things going in life; in order to sexually attract women; is just immense.

    The most pathetic female on this planet, would want at least a relatively attractive nicely built man for casual sex. It is just amazing.

    It is really ironic that society sympathizes with women who don't measure up to the (self-imposed)beauty ideals of media. When in reality the obese and the disfigured among them can still attract men for sex.

    I can get over the fact that women are highly selective, are harsh, unforgiving on looks. I can get over that I'm not getting laid by saying 'life isnt fair' but I can never get over the fact that society never acknowledges how important it is for men to be good looking. They are just too busy coddling whimmin and sympathizing with them for the new pimple on their face and the weight gain.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If you think about it, this is not women's or someone's fault. This comes from objectification of human beings, a social construct from the past, mostly directed at women, still propagated through posts as most of the posts on this blog. Yes, you are right, women between 15-70 can get sex almost anytime, no matter how they look and are. But this comes from the fact that men are still willing to stick it in anything that moves and believe it's OK to see another human being (a woman) as a sexual object only and that it's better to have sex with a foreign body rather than doing it yourself, if a release is what you seek, better than "puneta". The same goes for women, when this happens, and as a woman I too slept with men purely for sex, "masturbating" with their bodies or through their bodies, for this is what this is. This has nothing to do with high(er) sex drive, looks, leagues, it's a thousand-year mentality springing from the "physically dominant" principle and the fact that the physically dominant tends to see the physically "weaker" as an "object" of pleasure, desire or ownership. Once this mentality changes and both men and women start understanding and especially FEELING that other human beings are not "physical leagues" or "sexual objects", that their bodies and your own body are sacred and highly personal, that sex is not the same with going to the toilets or releasing in a perfect body as if it's an inflatable doll, that emotionless sex is alienating, that anyone can control their sex drive no matter how strong and direct it towards a significant other, give it a higher meaning, making it an act of love, intimacy, compatibility, a way to show how close you feel with a person, how much you love and appreciate them, that sexual chemistry/compatibility and physical "beauty" are not the same thing, that what actually matters on the dating scene is finding your MATCH (which includes a complex of attributes) and not banging the "hottest" (the hottest will always be the match), that the person with whom you will experience love/being in love/true love will not be the most beautiful, hottest, etc person you've met, whatever this means, but this match etc etc what you describe will change.

      Delete
  39. @TheSkeptic
    Maybe you aren't getting laid because you are trying to get women who are way out of your league. If you are a 6, go for a 4 or 5. Women who are 4-6 are invisible to men, so if you give them attention, they will be easy targets and perhaps have sex with you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Far from being invisible, women who are 4-6 are usually banging men who are 7-8 with minimal effort.

      I know that you grew up hearing that being beautiful is very important for a woman and that every man wants a perfect looking model / pornstar. I know that it is very difficult for you to let go of your core beliefs. I know that you see fat guys married to hot women on sitcoms. A part of you just doesn't want to acknowledge the real life dating/sexual and attraction dynamics because they would invalidate those core beleifs...they would heaven forbid compel you to reconsider who is the 'shallower' sex.

      I get a completely different vibe than what you're giving me, when I visit forums where women discuss their dating woes. Its common to come across seriously overweight young women with low self esteem who are wondering why hot, popular, tall and fit guys would sleep with them over and over again but wouldn't commit to them. Meanwhile the men in her own fucking league are completely invisible to her. I wonder how to account for this sex that she is getting. I wonder what kind of 'invisibility' is that.

      And then we have online dating, where women the size of a small car are flooded with dozens of offers every week. Your claim is just revolting, inaccurate and disingenuous on many levels.

      http://www.xojane.com/sex/i-look-a-lot-like-lena-dunham-and-ive-banged-super-hot-dudes

      Delete
    2. ...Just going to add to that with the following link: http://www.xojane.com/issues/lena-dunham-naked-nude. I read the first article you posted from xojane and saw a link on the site for the article I just linked to. It runs along pretty much the same argument you made.

      Interesting part from that article:

      "Of course, the truth is that women like Dunham -- and ones even less pretty and more imperfect -- get laid with very little effort, every single day. This flies in the face of what we’re taught about female attractiveness, but it’s true."

      Delete
    3. Mary

      This is the big elephant in the room.

      As much as I naturally feel a deep bitterness when I read the sexual escapades of (ordinary looking) women, I cannot help but praise the women on xojane for their honesty. I know millions of women are hating them for admitting something that women have a huuuuuge ego problem with. Women just looooove the sympathy from society.

      Its only a matter of time before society will have to accept it. I'm just waiting.

      Delete
    4. (BTW, thank you for linking to the xojane article and for bringing up this issue!)

      You have a point. It does seem like the big issue that no one wants to discuss or admit. And I understand your bitterness and frustration towards unattractive women getting laid often without putting forth much effort. Women benefit in this regard.

      To be honest, as a female, I'm glad articles like these are written. It's refreshing to see female writers addressing this and admitting it as the reality of today's dating and hooking up culture. But for you, as a male, it's frustrating that women can get away with this and men can't.

      Delete
    5. True, but as someone pointed out very eloquently to the Skeptic in another thread, very few women actually WANT to have casual sex with lots of different men. Most women actually crave committed, loving long term relationships, which aren't easy for anyone to find. His apparent bitterness about this 'injustice' in the hooking up scene stems from projection.Women may have the ability to get 'no strings attached' sex with very little effort, but thanks to the biological and emotional differences between men and women, very few of us actually want to take advantage of this.

      Delete
    6. True, very good points!!

      Delete
  40. @TheSkeptic
    and one other thing..women have more to lose when having casual sex so when we decide we want it, we look for someone who looks like he knows how to please a woman in bed and is physically attractive. Women will not have orgasms when the sex is bad. Men can have very bad sex and still have an orgasm. An unattractive man who doesn't have sex often is a bad gamble for a woman to take.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I get your point but that's a way to generalize.
      I for example can get (not all, but many) women off several times and they look like they really enjoy the show, but I basically only penetrate to make her feel good. Even ultra-thin condoms dull sensation so much for me I just take them off after ~20 min of thrusting and tell her to get me off by hand. Which feels anything but earth shattering.

      I am an exception and I understand that, but you basically put me in some category I don't belong in.

      About the pregnancy statement, I understand you can risk your life with pregnancy. But it's not like the man doesn't have any risks by having sex when it comes to making her pregnant. In most countries you pay for child care for a loooong time, costs you a fortune. Yes, the woman has more risks, very true, but by far not as you describe.

      Delete
    2. erm...the risk of pregnancy isn't about risking our lives - it's about bringing a child into the world when your not ready for one/not in a commited relationship.

      Delete
    3. That is so true about women not orgasming when sex is bad. And first time sex with a new man is usually not that great because he is so excited and can't last long. So I am not into casual sex and I imagine that a lot of other women aren't either. I'd think that most of us would prefer sex in a relationship, which is more often far better sex.

      Delete
  41. Question: How does a woman know what her dating "league" is if men are willing to date down? Is it strictly the guys who ask her out and take her on "proper" dates? Do men wine and dine women under their league?

    On one hand I have heard people say men who are willing to commit to you are in your league. However finding commitment is easy if you accept people below your league. How do you get a realistic gauge of your league without over/under shooting?

    I have always just gone for the best guys who approach me and are willing to put effort into dating me. Is this a good strategy or should I aim for the middle of the pack?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It strikes me that any person who is concerned with dating above/below his/her level is insecure about themselves in that they have to compare one person with another to legitimize himself/herself.

      Delete
    2. Y is not demonstrating insecurity. Y is commenting on how confusing it can be to determine how a man really feels about you when faced with the reality that that "special" guy who's been behaving very interested in you may not be interested in "you" at all..

      Delete
    3. False.

      If anything my hatred of wasting time and mental energy on dead-ends is what prompted my question.

      On a separate note, IME people who deny the existence of leagues are usually guided by wishful thinking and constantly trying to play outside of their league as a result. Anyone living in the real world knows there are different levels of attractiveness and desirability. There is nothing insecure about acknowledging an observable fact and acting accordingly.

      Delete
  42. Women don't have the ability to think rationally.
    They think that leagues don't even exist.

    women take serious offense if you tell them that the reason behind their dating woes is that they're going after men out of their league.

    Its a very strange mindset.

    ReplyDelete
  43. I honestly don't get this. I know a lot of married couples around me, the man is good looking and the wife is more than average or even not really pretty and vice versa. I don't know if it is because I leave in Europe. People seem less shallow than in America in this case. I think we just go for people we like and who are nice to us, not because we will give them a number. If he is a 10 and an idiot I am sorry I won't be interested by this type of guy but if he is 5 and nice with good manners I will give him his chance definitely.

    I think people should only concentrate about how comfortable they feel and not about a number.

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  44. I am so confused..... I am always seeing attractive women with repulsive men. They are EVERYWHERE. I've decided that many of these men probably must have "enough" wealth/status to attract a certain (and surprisingly common) type of woman. The rest must be wicked smart or funny or have awesome personalities... I don't know. I do know that of all the men I've dated or been with - though some were very physically attractive - only one do I consider to have been hotter than I. I've made a few drunken mistakes. I was charmed a few times... A couple times the guy just wore me down in his pursuit. And others I genuinely liked as people. But there simply aren't very many attractive men on this planet. One can go days without even seeing an 8..... So.... Women usually dating points lower?? Not seeing it.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Oops. Rushed. I meant "higher"!

    ReplyDelete
  46. I guess I'm one of the girl dating, having bf below her league... I just find that these men treat me better, they just go out of their way to be nice. But at the same time I don't have the confidence to talk to hot guys. When this happen, I just will remain silent or seem very cold with them. Plus most of them (hot guys) they have this repulsive over-confident-attitude that I just hate so much...Oh well :)

    ReplyDelete
  47. What if the women don't think these men are out of their league?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "What if the women don't think these men are out of their league?"

      One’s value, or “league” is determined by both parties in any relationship. Therefore, it doesn’t really matter if women don’t think these men are out of their league; it matters whether these men think that they are out of her league.

      So if she thinks the guy is in her league, but he thinks he’s above hers, then he will either 1) hump and dump her, 2) string her along for casual sex for as long as it takes for her to realize what he’s doing, or 3) ignore her/not ask her out.

      This is where strong boundaries are necessary for women: to ensure that she doesn’t end up in either category 1) or 2). If a woman tries to enforce her boundaries with a guy who feels he’s out of her league he will quickly move on to another woman.

      Women have to demand proper behavior from men – this is how she proves she’s in his league.

      The opposite dynamic works for men; a guy can think a woman is in his league all day long. But if she thinks he’s below hers, then his opinion will be irrelevant.

      Delete
    2. Thomas - put the pipe down and listen to some truths: What you're endorsing is a woman manipulate a guy and erect artificial attraction when there is none. The only guy that will fall for that is a dimwit with low self-esteem or low self worth. If a guy isn't attracted to a woman and she has to go through hoops and hurdles to get his attention (ignoring him included) to make herself seem valuable, she's a conniving manipulator, and he's stupid. You are endorsing female hypergamy which will achieve the OPPOSITE to a woman respecting him. He loses himself (and his balls) too.

      Delete
    3. “Thomas - put the pipe down and listen to some truths:”

      Fair enough, oh you the teller of absolute truth, I’m listening.

      “What you're endorsing is a woman manipulate a guy and erect artificial attraction when there is none.”

      No I’m not; I am endorsing for a woman to have strong and clear boundaries. Boundaries are not artificial attraction mechanisms – they are primarily protection mechanisms for her. But not only will these protect her psychologically, they will also generate respect and prove that she’s a high-quality woman who won’t tolerate disrespectful behavior (e.g. being downgraded from girlfriend to booty-call status). There is no manipulation here. If the guy is intimidated by her boundaries he is free to move on.

      “The only guy that will fall for that is a dimwit with low self-esteem or low self worth.”

      It depends on how she asserts and communicates her boundaries. If she does it clearly in a non-pressuring manner then guys – even high quality guys - shouldn’t be intimidated. Granted, guys out of her league will move on – but that is to her benefit anyway.

      “You are endorsing female hypergamy which will achieve the OPPOSITE to a woman respecting him. He loses himself (and his balls) too.”

      No I’m not. If I was endorsing female hypergamy I would be giving women tips on how to lock-down guys out of her league.

      Look Euser, you seem to see the concept of boundaries as synonymous with hoops and hurdles – there is a difference. Granted, if she doesn’t communicate clearly it might come across as delivering ultimatums and/or scheming. That’s why clear communication is essential from the outset. If a woman explains clearly and with no pressure her reasons and motivations, he will/should understand and respect them.

      So tell me, Euser, how would you respond to Mycah Lancaster’s question?

      Delete
    4. Thomas - Look at it this way.

      Point A: Guy has no attraction to gal, or at least not enough to want to make a commitment to her, or after dating her he realizes he doesn't want her [regardless of the reason].

      Point B: Same players, guy is now attracted to gal.

      Boundaries: Are you expecting the passage of time, or she rejects him [to make herself seem valuable, but yet sticks around close enough to get his attention - this is the very core of manipulation], or some form of demonstration of "boundaries" by her is going to MAKE a guy suddenly become attracted to someone he was not? This is what happens to move from Point A to Point B? That guy is a chump and a loser AT BEST. At worst, it gets to the heart of what Andrew wrote about in Being a Typical Girl. The guy is undermining his instincts and doubting himself. For what? At what cost? That's ARTIFICIAL ATTRACTION (if attraction at all) and his judgment is flawed. IT WON'T LAST. Read Andrew's post.

      Better still, can you think of an experience you had where you were on the fence and then the woman goes through a scheme of manipulation [obvious or covert] and then you decide to go after her in spite of your instincts against being with her? How did it turn out?

      What you're endorsing jogs my memory of a scene in that movie Devil's Advocate. It's easy to get seduced by people physically [like sex] or even intellectually [like appealing one's weak spot; exploiting vulnerability; inducing doubt], but you already know how it ends.

      Don't advise people to live their lives with their heads up their asses. They need to get their heads out of their asses and open their eyes. Be smart.

      A guy who TRULY respects gal, will respect her from DAY 1. He will want her from DAY 1.

      Delete
    5. @Euser
      “Are you expecting the passage of time, or she rejects him…or some form of demonstration of "boundaries" by her is going to MAKE a guy suddenly become attracted to someone he was not?”

      No. I’m expecting them to keep ambivalent guys/time-wasters/guys out of her league etc. away. Truly interested guys will remain interested.

      “Don't advise people to live their lives with their heads up their asses. They need to get their heads out of their asses and open their eyes.”

      I read back all over my comments and I’m pretty sure I never advised anyone to live their lives with their heads up their asses.

      “A guy who TRULY respects gal, will respect her from DAY 1. He will want her from DAY 1.”

      OK – and how is a girl supposed to know which guy truly respects her? For every guy that truly respects a gal from day 1 there will be 10 ten guys willing to have sex with her and move on. How is she to distinguish between one and the other? Through enforcing her boundaries is how.

      I dunno, I think we’ve got our wires crossed here. Has anyone else got an opinion, or an answer to Mycah’s question?

      Delete
    6. Truly interested guys would NOT need a gal to *assert* her boundaries for a guy to *realize* his interest [which was absent to begin with]. No crossed wires -- haha

      Delete
    7. @Micah Lancaster

      Thomas is right. If a woman doesn't think that the man is out of her league, it all boils down to how willing to invest (commit) the men are - and a woman who doesn't mantain / communicate clear, healthy boundaries, is too much of a risk for men in the sense of a serious relationship with her: they will take what sex they can get, feigning genuine interest if need be but never fully commit.

      Delete
    8. Micah,
      I'm with Thomas and digra. If the women don't think these guys are out of their league, it's probably because they are failing to see the pattern of "lovin' and leavin'". Guys DO commit. They just have their own standards for girlfriend material vs sex buddy material. I guess it is a matter of looking for the same outcome happening over and over. If a girl is constantly "dating" hot guys for short periods of time, that is the clearest indicator she's out of her league all the time. If it was one guy who just lost his job or something, it COULD be an outside factor, but we are rarely living the exception. More often it's the rule. I guess I say all that to say, she's probably wrong. Luckily this blog can help that girl improve her marketability overall ;)

      Delete
  48. Men are tricking themselves with the idea that sooner or later women have to settle for a man within their league. I see how someone could mistakenly reason that simply from numbers alone, not all plain janes could possibly get the cream of the crop every time. This is not true. All across the United States there is a severe shortage of women. 20 years ago it was even worse than now! Women didn't notice because they weren't the ones suffering, but just about everywhere I looked there were 15 dudes fighting over 2 or 3 fattys. Even if you got one she's pretty much spoiled simply because of the advantage she's accustomed to. Plus sadly that's not all. Men from 20-50 all want women from 20-36ish. Women are not able to have children their whole life. Unfortunately, going mail order and risking getting used, is about a guy's best option in general, or just acquire a taste for a heavier girl and wait for her to be single.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @ Troy
      “Men are tricking themselves with the idea that sooner or later women have to settle for a man within their league.”

      If sooner or later never comes and a guy never finds a woman in his league then the market has spoken and the guy isn’t in as high a league as he thinks: you are what you can get.

      Ultimately, it will come down to each individual and how important marriage/kids/remaining single is for them. If marriage is not important then an individual can refuse to compromise and remain single indefinitely.

      “I see how someone could mistakenly reason that simply from numbers alone, not all plain janes could possibly get the cream of the crop every time. This is not true. All across the United States there is a severe shortage of women.”

      You sure about that?

      53%
      Percentage of unmarried U.S. residents 18 and older who were women in 2011; 47 percent were men.
      Source: America's Families and Living Arrangements: 2011
      Table A1.

      More?

      89
      Number of unmarried men 18 and older for every 100 unmarried women in the United States in 2011.
      Source: America's Families and Living Arrangements: 2011
      Table A1

      “Women didn't notice because they weren't the ones suffering, but just about everywhere I looked there were 15 dudes fighting over 2 or 3 fattys.”

      Why are you looking in places where men outnumber women 5 to 1? And why are there only fattys there? If the scene in which you try to date isn’t working for you (it sounds like you frequent bars and clubs?) then you should try a different scene.

      “Even if you got one she's pretty much spoiled simply because of the advantage she's accustomed to.”

      Can you blame her though? If you were a fat guy with 5 beautiful women fighting over you wouldn’t you become accustomed to the advantage? It is human nature to want the best possible.

      “Plus sadly that's not all. Men from 20-50 all want women from 20-36ish. Women are not able to have children their whole life”.

      It is true that women from 20-36ish have many options: that’s life.

      I’m confused at how you perceive their reduced fertility window is an advantage though? If anything it’s a disadvantage as they have a smaller window in which to play the dating game, - thus might be forced to blink (settle) first.

      --------------------------
      Notwithstanding the tone of my responses, Troy, I do think you have a point. For a certain amount of men – perhaps the majority – the sexual liberation of women has made life a lot more difficult. It is human nature to want the best; therefore, women will naturally gravitate to men at the top of the dating pile thus neglecting a significant majority.

      “Unfortunately, going mail order and risking getting used, is about a guy's best option in general, or just acquire a taste for a heavier girl and wait for her to be single.”

      Not bad suggestions.

      Delete
    2. Thomas, I would like to be internet friends with you. I was going to respond until I saw your comment and decided it's been covered.

      Delete
    3. Hey Kae,
      I would like that :) It's always nice to have friends.

      On a general point I think it's important for guys to call out other guys when their comments need to be addressed; rather than assume a simplistic adversarial men-v-women viewpoint.

      I look forward to reading your comments henceforth :)

      Delete
    4. Kae/Thomas - it’s an advantage to have comments like yours that provide different perspectives. Readers, I bet, will be better for it, including those who agree or disagree.

      Delete
  49. Hm this is an interesting point *but* I think it only applies for hookups or one night stands. In my experience, most of the women I know who are in long term, steady, committed relationships are usually with guys who (at least in terms of looks) are below their league, like they can do better but they're choosing to settle with these guys. I mean, you can even see this with celebrities: Christina Hendricks/Geoffrey Arend, Kim/Kanye, Heidi Klum/Ric Pipino (or even Seal), Olivia Wilde/Jason Sudeikis, Kristen Bell/Dax Shepard, etc. etc. etc. The list goes on. Like, yeah, I'm sure these guys are all great and have redeeming qualities but based on looks, these women can definitely do better.So I'm not sure if the whole "women can play outside of their league" applies to anything but brief flings. Anything of substance, it seems the woman is the one settling.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't think it's ever a good idea to use celebrities as examples, because they are abnormal in so many respects. However, I agree that this applies for casual flings much more so than long term relationships. Hence "play".

      Delete
    2. SimplySomeone,

      In general, women are attracted to confidence in men, above any other qualities. Likewise, men are attracted to beauty in women.

      What you are saying is a form of projection (as an example, a woman who likes confident men, and thinks men like confident women above other traits).

      Delete
    3. @ SimplySomeone
      “most of the women I know who are in long term, steady, committed relationships are usually with guys who (at least in terms of looks) are below their league, like they can do better but they're choosing to settle with these guys.”

      The thing is though, the women you know who are with guys below their league *can’t* actually do better. Otherwise they would.

      However, as you point out, it is true that they *can* do better for casual/short-term relationships.

      “So I'm not sure if the whole "women can play outside of their league" applies to anything but brief flings. Anything of substance, it seems the woman is the one settling.”

      This is only half true; both parties are in fact settling. The woman might be settling in terms of what type of guy she can get, but the guy is settling in that he is reciprocally sacrificing his instinctive drive to have sex with many different women.

      Delete
  50. I'm a woman. This isn't true. There are many reasons for a woman to choose a partner and many times when her partner is much less attractive than her. In fact, I think this is far more common, I always see hot girls with ugly guys.

    ReplyDelete
  51. I completely agree with the above statement. I have dated and slept with beautiful, powerful men. Although I am not ugly I by no means a model. I have found that these type of men are attracted to me because I put in the effort to only accept the best. I am not a gold digger and have my own career. So powerful men respect me, I am outgoing and charismatic so the good looking ones want to be entertained. I enjoy my choices in men and wish that I had others to brag to but as a lady we are not to. Plus the other women get jealous as they sit there with their ugly boring husbands

    ReplyDelete
  52. When I had ONS and casual sex, I always chose the guy who seemed to know how to please a woman (like me) in bed: someone with the same intensity, passion, exuding the kind of masculinity I like, someone intensely sexual and hot in bed, also giving that vibe that he likes and wants to please a woman, that he is focused on that, and that he likes everything about sex. All this has very little to do with looks; for example, shorter darker guys are well known for being more intense, sexual and good in bed, and this stereotype never proved wrong so far, in my experience. James Bond supermodels are not the best lay, and neither are Victoria Secret's. I thought everyone knew that already lol The point is, one can feel a similar intensity coming from a member of the opposite sex, and it's not looks-related, per se. This similarity is, in fact, the "league": compatibility.
    Anyway, using other people as sexual objects is perhaps something to experiment at one point in one's life, but something to give up soon enough, if prolonged it turns you into a sexual and romantic looser. It's simply wrong from a myriad POVs.

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  53. I am going back 100 years to test the theory presented here. At that time it was not very acceptable to have a lot of sex outside marriage - oh it happened but not on the scale it is happening now with simple birth control.

    The question is did men date down to get sex? Did women date up and when the guy married someone else did she then settle? I am curious what the answers to this are and whether this proves or disproves the theory presented here?

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  54. Perhaps this blog is geared towards Gen X/people who are no longer in school? I go to a large, public university. I agree that guys are less picky than girls when it comes to casual sex. However, this blog seems to imply that guys always go for the less attractive girl because they will have a greater chance of success, and in my experience that isn't the case. While men may end up sleeping with woman who have a number lower than their own, they often will pursue women of a higher caliber before settling to get their fix. Lower ranked women are more likely to say yes to casual sex because they get less attention and it makes them feel good. Still, the guys I know care a lot about body when they hook up with a girl. They may be willing to overlook bad hair or a small gut for a good body. Most of the virgins I know are larger, heavy set girls. Perhaps after college, men are willing to go even father below their number for casual sex.

    Some of the best looking girls I know sleep around a ton, even the 10's who are drop dead gorgeous and could be in movies. Some really good looking guys I know date girls who are in a far lower league than they. I would say these are exceptions, but I see these exceptions so frequently at my school.

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  55. There are a few things people are confusing over and over. The objective "league" is if you were to get 1000 people to rate Girl X or Guy Y on a scale from 1-10, the average would be the [physical] attractiveness "league". That's what people are saying when they say "She's out of his league or He's out of her league" etc. The confusion is that women don't put as much stock ultimately in the 1-10 rating because that's not a top priority characteristic for someone who is feminine and stable. Who could argue against a woman's BEST outcome being a guy who treats her well and has a good connection with her, is faithful, etc. No way you can tell me from real life that according to biology or socially/personally a woman is more fulfilled without a stable man to look up to. That's how we are made. Deluded modernists love to act like women look back on sleeping with women the same way dudes do and pat themselves on the back. All it really does is remind them of how stupid they were. For guys it could be similar, but it just wouldn't be as intense for various reasons.

    All that said, I speculate that there is slight skew towards the 1-10 rating being higher for women paired with men, for reasons mentioned, but mostly it's very close. As others have said, a woman's rating of herself is by definition going to be more off than a man (the seller's point and awareness of his value), because there are short term and long term variables that confuse her, and she's less visual. She can see that she's pretty, but ultimately it's determined by who comes by (and they aren't mindful of the inability to make a long term guy commit) ... which is the point of this article.

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  56. I have ALWAYS been perplexed as to how men will have sex with almost any willing woman and have no desire whatsoever to have a serious relationship with her! In my mind, as a woman, sex is the most intimate act a woman and a man can share, for me...it just doesn't get any more intimate. How can a man insert his penis into the vagina of a woman who he cares nothing about!! LOL Hold her close, kiss her, touch her, and penetrate her with no emotional involvement at all!! I just don't understand it and probably never will. Also, he's willing to take the risk of an STD, unwanted pregnancy, hurting the woman emotionally (Does he even care about her feelings even though she is a willing sex partner?) Please, please help me to better understand this. AlabamaGirl

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    1. You just have to accept that the hardwiring for men and women is different. What they are biologically wired to do is different.

      Men have a lot of sperm, it's easy to produce, and the urge to get it out there far and wide is at the base of their drives. Getting it into a fertile woman is the task. When he's done that, his "work" is done, biologically speaking. Women produce few eggs in a limited number of years and their task is to produce a healthy baby and, optimally, induce dad to stick around to help raise it. Hence, they are more invested, biologically and emotionally, in the outcome of a sexual encounter.

      Does that help at all?

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  57. AlabamaGirl, let me help you understand.

    If you aren't mindful that you are a person and that biology doesn't control you, rather you control it, you have to have seriously lapses in judgment to fall into these categories. The sad thing is that few realize this. So what does it come down to? Biological urges that people haven't been taught to control or worse, told to act on them without any sort of restraint. Don't think that women are not prone to make just as erratic or rash hormonal decisions, however. Their aims are also emotional things like validation, just as vapid as a man's desire to get off and possibly objectify another human being. What's worse is that women think this way more and more commonly (like the classic man who is not concerned about sex and "connection" with a partner or as a family. Have you ever wondered how on earth a girl in her high school years EVER consents to sex? It's wholly irrational. Yet it happens, all the time.

    All in all I agree with you but that's because I think this culture is almost lost. No longer do we ask ourselves, "How can I be a good wife to someone"? or "How can I be a good husband"?, but rather look for some other way for outsiders to fill our unending desires. And people, particularly women, wonder why none of this individualism or career-ism is fulfilling ...

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  58. Attractiveness is subjective. The most important determinant is self-image - mensa, ergo sum. If your age, illness, or setbacks drop your internal self esteem, it will be reflected in your partners. If you fight these things, and surpass them, you play a better game.

    A lot of men are interested in older women. I am a category. They believe that I might teach them something. Actually, they're hunting for low cherries; a quick boff. It kind of reminds me of a chihuahua humping your leg. Come back when you grow up.

    I am 61, and I can tell you that the game never stops. If you believe, so will be your reality. But you have to work at it, consciously, every day. If you are feeling down, or depressed, or are not at your best, don't expect men to nurse you. That is your job. This is how I alone choose to define myself. I choose to be the exception, because ultimately I define who I am, and who I attract.




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  59. Why are women so ignorant ? Talk about self deception. Men are so much more familiar
    with rejection. As women get older and they are no longer a commodity they begin the self
    denial talk. "This cannot be happening to me" . Guess what ? It is ?

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  60. This blog is like a sewer with broken pipes. The personality of a person who owns it is so foul that I hope his looks compensate for the stench.

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    1. I understand why you think that. As thinking beings, we don't want to believe that certain things are true. But on a very base level, when you get right down to the animalistic core of what we are as living, procreating creatures, a lot of it is just the plain, unvarnished truth.

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  61. I think people gravitate to their own league in the final analysis. I don't see many truly mismatched couples. I see many unattractive (to me) ones. Overweight, out of shape, unkempt, bad health, unappealing features, on and on. But they always find each other.

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  62. When I was younger I didn't think about just how gorgeous guys thought I was. If I wanted to sleep around I did... if I wanted to get serious I did. When it was "time" to get married, I did. I was much more attractive than my husband and he would often get asked how did you get her. In truth it was simple, he accepted me and not just the package. In the end that's all we really want, someone who gets us, accepts us and loves us for the mess of a person we are. 20 plus years later still going strong.

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