Tuesday, April 8, 2014

Stop Lying to Your Friends

Girls are famous for complimenting each other and supporting each other with their words. On the surface, this seems like a good thing. Telling your girl friend that she looks hot before a night out will boost her ego; telling her that the guy who just dumped her wasn't worth her time will help her get over him faster; and telling her that she has a "Beyonce butt" will make her feel more comfortable about her body... right? Wrong.

When you do these things, you are letting your girlfriend wallow in her mediocrity. If you tell your friend that she looks good when she doesn't, she isn't going to make an effort to look better next time. If you tell your friend that the guy wasn't worth her time, when the truth is that he definitely was worth her time, you are only going to prevent her from doing what she needs to do to make herself more attractive to the next guy of that caliber. And if you tell her that her big ass is sexy, she isn't going to lose the weight she needs to make it look better. 

Granted, your girl friend probably isn't naive enough or dishonest enough with herself to completely believe you when you say these things; but I am willing to bet that neither is she wise enough nor honest enough with herself to disbelieve them completely. By telling her anything less than the complete truth, you are placing a Band-Aid over the wound; you aren't substantially helping her. Or worse, you are cowering from your fear of telling her the harsh truth, only because you want to avoid the confrontation that it might cause. Even your excuse about making her feel good about herself falls flat, because a girl's "need to feel beautiful" cannot be satisfied by empty or equivocated compliments.

The problem with this kind of "support" is deeper than just the effect that you have on your friend. Not only are you wrong about the fact that you are helping her, you are probably also wrong in believing that your motive was to help her in the first place. You tell her that she looks hot because you think she needs to hear that she looks hot. But that is just a symptom of the fact that, if you were in her situation, you would feel the need to hear that you look hot - precisely because you wouldn't believe it. And you tell her that her ex wasn't worth her time mainly because, if you were in her situation, you wouldn't be comfortable with accepting the harsh reality that he was absolutely worth your time, but you lost him. And if you had an ass that size, you'd want to believe that the shape compensated for the size, because you'd hate having to face the reality that your ass is huge, and that you actually need to start a real workout, rather than just reading magazines on the treadmill three times a week. In other words, your inability to be honest with your friend is a reflection of your discomfort being honest with yourself.

Granted, there are right ways and wrong ways to break the news to your friend that she is fat, or looks bad, or just lost the man of her dreams - or any other news she isn't going to want to hear. I am not suggesting that when she asks "doesn't my ass look big in this?" you reply "yeah, like huge!" There are ways to get the truth across tactfully, one of which is not embarrassing her in front of others. For example, in that situation (assuming there were others present), you could say something like "It's probably not the right dress for you" and then later - in person - tell her that she should throw it away.

Also, pointing out problems without solutions is the hallmark of un-helpfulness. So the other important thing to do is to help her find a way to improve whatever it is you are giving her honest feedback about. After you tell her that you actually thing she lost a great guy, for example, don't just stop there and let her believe (wrongly) that she has an inherent lack of ability to get a quality man; tell her that you think you know a couple reasons he might have left, and offer to help her improve in those areas.

By starting to be more honest with your girl friends, you aren't going to start a revolution in the way that women give each other feedback and advice. This is something rooted in female nature, in the same way that the male inability to engage each other emotionally is rooted in theirs (and neither is a strength). But you could do something far more important, in the sense that it affects you a lot more: you could change the culture in your group of friends. If one or two of you start breaking the insincere compliment cycle, the others will catch on, and soon realize that yours is a better course of action. The more you foster that culture among your group of friends, the more you all will benefit from the mutual honesty, the more you will improve yourselves and your chances with the opposite sex.

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  1. In my experience I have found that my girlfriends have been honest, even if they had to prompted, because there are times when I and anyone needs to hear upfront advice and other times when you just need reassurance. I am always honest, I am known for being upfront and straight talking. Sometimes I lack social nuance but I do see the difference. Sometimes a person can't handle the right advice at that time. People usually work it out eventually and more importantly, when they are ready. If they don't then an increased level of self awareness is needed. In my ideal world everyone would stop the sugar coating BS and be honest all the time, but in order to help someone on their way you've got recognise when they are ready for it..

  2. I don't know how many women are actually lying to their friends. We want to assume just about every woman does this, but what if a friend really does believe that the girl looks good, or that the guy is not good enough for her? I think women are coming to place too much value on the opinion of others anyway. What would be more helpful is if they can learn to start relying more on their own opinions of themselves without the approval of anyone else, male or female.

    1. "What if a friend really does believe that the girl looks good, or that the guy is not good enough for her?"

      Then she should be honest. The point isn't that she should be hard on her friend, the point is that she should be honest with her friend - whether it is by saying good things or bad things.

    2. I'm honest with my friends because I've never found lying to be helpful. But I'm also one of those that follow the head instead of the heart and could probably be more sensitive.

      With that being said, there are many women who over compensate for their friends' shortcomings, and by extension, their own. This is not only a feminine thing, but a reflection of the values in our consolation prize society that embraces career losers, like the ones we idolize on reality TV. No merit based happiness. Everyone is special. No effort is expected to be put into the individual self or relationships.

      These attitudes have lowered our standards and have shaken up the dynamics of dating. Not in a good way.

    3. Agreed that this is not only a feminine thing. Guys do it too. They get rejected by a girl and their friends call her a "bitch" when the truth is that she did nothing wrong or unfair.

  3. @ Andrew

    Good post, however, as I'm sure you've realized, in general women don't do the 'brutal honesty' like we do, because they're (mostly) guided by their feelings.

    men tend to tackle issues head-on even it takes them up shit creek of emotional turmoil, because we believe ultimately the outcome will be better - and we get a buzz from working difficulties out.

    whereas i reckon women actively avoid feeling bad, trying to locate and solve the issue (it's a buzz kill to them) or causing distress to their peers even if for a good reason. they have some chocolate or a little wine, forget about it. keep the good mood going, outcome achieved, for the moment.

    agree with NattyKadifa above.

    1. I do realize that, but I don't think it undermines the point (and I don't think you are saying that it does). I think men and women can both take a lesson from the opposite sex, since we both tend to cling to our polarized ways of navigating the world (men by their brains, women by their hearts). The most masculine men need a female influence in their lives, just as the most feminine women need a masculine influence in their lives. The man's world is cold and harsh without a woman, and the woman's world is wild and impulsive without a man.

    2. That's right, it doesn't undermine the point. The poignancy of your last sentence sums it all up for me

  4. I get what you're saying but I can't say that all my friends with big "beyonce" asses are out of shape because they're not...and sometimes the guy we blow up to god like stature isn't what we need. I think you think we aren't as real to ourselves and each other, and maybe that could be an overall consensus but I never lie to my friends about anything...because that doesn't work and it doesn't improve us. If you are truly friends, you can tell each other anything..with tact, or maybe without it depending on the relationship. I just think this post was a generalization of maybe what you encountered but definitely not the MO of most "real" friendships. I wouldn't even tell a girl I didn't like that she looked amazing when she didn't...

    1. Samira,

      I wasn't really generalizing. In fact, I wouldn't even say that most women have this problem. I said at the beginning that women are notorious for it, but I agree that the notoriety isn't deserved across the board - as it isn't with most stereotypes.

      That being said, I have heard women do these things. Sometimes I hear it done directly, but other times, it surfaces when I am frank with my opinion to a girl, and her friends scold me later for being "too honest."

      Digra is right that women tend to be more sensitive than men, but that doesn't mean that a little dose of reality won't help from time to time - in the same way that a lot of men can benefit from taking the edge off from time to time and being a little more sensitive.

      And while you might be perfectly honest with your friends, a lot of girls aren't. You might not need to hear it, but some women do.

    2. Actually I said "famous" not "notorious" now that I re-read it... Not the same, but it doesn't change my point in this comment.

  5. I disagree. You are off the mark. Women in general do not lie to their friends about the others attractiveness. What women find attractive in other women are different from what men find attractive. I had experiences where I found someone attractive but all my males friends disagreed. Women take personality into consideration when judging one another. Just like they do with men. This affect their judgement. There are women out their who find Megan Fox physically unattractive because of her personality is so bad to them that they get a negative reaction from looking at her.

  6. Hi Andrew, did you ever end up doing the myers briggs test? Can you please do it? I'm guessing ENTJ. I LOVE YOUR BLOG! And am so much hotter now thanks you to you! Lol! (Seriously though..)

    1. For some reason that link doesn't work.... Here they are:

      Anyone interested in my Myers-Briggs personality type, I just took a test and got the following results:

      Extravert(78%) Sensing(1%) Thinking(12%) Judging(1%)

      You have strong preference of Extraversion over Introversion (78%)
      You have marginal or no preference of Sensing over Intuition (1%)
      You have slight preference of Thinking over Feeling (12%)
      You have marginal or no preference of Judging over Perceiving (1%)

  7. Hey, I'm a fresh reader and the above post embraces what would is the greatest thing to hear from a real girlfriend (if not from her - from whom?). Unfortunately, most of girls I know hate when someone tells them that and reply "oh, don't be a bitch". Too bad :)

  8. In my experience, girls do not want to hear the truth. No matter how diplomatically it may be delivered. The girls that I know would much rather have a bevy of cheerleaders validating them. It is utterly ridiculous if you ask me.

  9. This post seems to say a lot about the quality of friendships people have more than anything.

  10. I encourage you Andrew to be completely honest, like you are suggesting above, with your next girlfriend or future wife & see what happens.

    1. Haha oh, trust me, I know what happens. If being completely honest means telling her something she doesn't like, she flares up in a momentary burst of anger. Of course. But in the long term, she trusts me because she knows I didn't lie to her. And when I give her a compliment, it makes her just as happy as the negative feedback made her mad, because she knows it is sincere.

  11. I completely disagree. Women and men think differently, it is a scientific fact. So to judge a woman's thinking and say we all lie to our friends is wrong. I don't lie to my friends male or female. Besides I am too transparent and cannot lie well anyway so I don't. However, I have been in many situations where I was privy to a male's conversation to his best buddy, and after the call he slags him off. If some women lie to their friends, what about the men who do this too? Very one sided blog and does not portray the whole truth.
    My advice, don't judge either sexes, just because someone may have hurt you in the past does not mean that next time around it will be the same. It takes time to find a suitable match and only then it takes a long time getting to know them.

    1. I didn't say or even imply that all women do this. I said that women have a reputation for this, and I implied (by writing the post) that some women do this. Big difference.

  12. Hi Andrew,

    Long time lurker, first time commenter from Australia. I find your blog quite interesting - I often agree with you, and when I don't, I can usually - if somewhat begrudgingly ;) - see your point of view.

    Have to say, that's not the case on this one. I don't agree with you at all, and I actually think you're way off the mark on this one.

    I don't think giving a friend an ego boost by telling her she looks better than she does results in her not making an effort next time. Not at all. Feeling confident and good about yourself makes you want to try harder and look better, not give up.

    I don't think telling a girl the guy who just dumped her isn't worth her time is wrong at all. Even if he was a great guy - he did dump her, after all. Making herself more attractive may or may not change his mind, but it won't make them any better of a match. What happened to not wasting your time with people who aren't into you?

    Many women will have a Beyonce butt - or some other so-called fault - no matter how thin they are. Again, I'm struggling to think of a single instance where making someone feel bad about their body - especially if it's something they can't change - made them into a more confident and attractive woman.

    I actually can't think of many (any?) women I know who would outright lie to each other like you suggest - and I know a lot of different people. I think you're basing this on a cheap stereotype, and saying you 'didn't mean all women, just some women' is a cop out.

    Bottom line - I think this post of yours has strayed into that territory of many others in the 'manosphere', which is 'getting women to do what you want by making them feel bad about themselves and their bodies'. Yuk.

    I suspect you know as well as I do that people who feel bad about themselves lack motivation, courage, energy, optimism - all the things needed for self-improvement. maybe you were just having an off day, but this is probably the first post I've yours that I've read and thought, wow, this are naive and simple words from someone who really doesn't know or understand women at all.

    Sorry, but it is a post about brutal honesty, right?

    x TDMJ

    1. Just to be clear, I'm a man, so interpret what I say as you will.

      I think you have some valid points, but in some ways are also off the mark, attempting to simplify things, and overly generalizing women, just as you're chasting Andrew for doing in his post above.

      Compliments: I think what you're saying has some merit. I remember reading somewhere that the way you go about getting men and women to change their behavior differs quite a bit. If you criticize men, it shows them what they're doing wrong and motivates them to improve themselves... Up to a certain point. If something is so overwhelming that it seems impossible to fix however, it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman, you'll likely just give up. However, with women, the idea being discussed was that if you want a woman to change her behavior, you should compliment her on qualities that you want her to have, even if she doesn't necessarily have them right now since it will make her feel good and want to cultivate them.

      But at the same time, I think what Andrew is saying has some merit as well. Some women are definitely delusional about how they look and reinforcing that delusion doesn't help them to fix their problems. Of course, they might not believe it if you're honest with them, but that's not the point. The point is that some women do need to be told the truth so they know what to work on. But again, I could see how you could also see that as being discouraging. Basically, both viewpoints are equally valid depending on the circumstances. I also think you're probably lying to yourself if you think that no women do what Andrew is suggesting above. I mean, just look a few posts above this one, where some women admit that they do this. I'm not saying all of them do it since most the comments here actually agree with your point of view, but again, some do and it's worth writing about and I think those are the women Andrew was addressing in this post.

      "He's not worth your time": Again, it just depends on the woman. If he dumped her due to no fault of her own and it was just a lack of chemistry between personalities then you might be right. But if she let herself go and that's why he dumped her then you might be wrong. Of course I don't think anyone would tell you to be mean to a girl who JUST got dumped as she's sitting there obviously upset, just that at some point it would probably benefit her if you were honest to her about her short comings so that she can improve.

      The one thing you're saying that sort of irks me is suggesting that Andrew is in any way like a lot of misogynists in the manosphere. As far as I know, Andrew has never once posted something with the sole intention of hurting women and creating/reinforcing a Men vs. Women mindset in his readers and I don't think he would do that. You yourself admit that this is the first time you've been upset by a post he made and just massively disagree with it. I mean, returnofkings.com had an entire week of posts that fell under the banner of "Fat Shaming Week." Have you ever seen Andrew posting something even close to that? I haven't and I don't think anyone else here has either.

      Overall though I see where you're coming from, think that what you're saying is valid and ultimately... It just depends on the context.

    2. Thanks for your response, Tom!

      Your first paragraph about compliments is spot on - and is also why I felt compelled to comment on this occasion. Normally Andrew (sorry to speak of you in the third person, Andrew!) is pretty good at the male/female differences, and the different ways to motivate men and women - it's one of the reason we read and enjoy this blog so much. I really feel like, in this post, he is drifting into treating women like men - as far as motivation goes - which is why I was so disappointed.

      I take your point that 'some women are delusional', just as I'm sure you'll agree some men are delusional! When writing for the masses, generalisations are pretty necessary. But I genuinely can't think of anyone I've ever encountered who is this way - granted, maybe I've just been lucky - but by far, the majority of women I know are far more attractive than they think, and tend far more towards unwarranted insecurity about their looks [check out any online dating site where near supermodels will still describe their body type as 'average' ...]. Which is, again. why I feel so strongly about anything that aims to knock such women down a few (more) pegs.

      I do despise the idea that a woman is worthy of being dumped because she 'lets herself go' (ugh, what a turn of phrase that is!) physically, regardless of everything else that might be great about her - sigh - but this is one of those areas where, I don't like it, but I grudgingly accept that Andrew's right in that it happens. Vis a vis, this is one of my favourite 'lightbulb moment' posts: http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2012/04/analogy-between-confidence-and-beauty.html.

      You're obviously familiar with the loathsome authors of the manosphere that I'm referring to. Of course, if I thought for a second that this blog was really among that crowd, I wouldn't be spending a minute of my time here and certainly wouldn't be making the effort to comment. I don't believe Andrew is a misogynistic troll hunkered over his computer in a darkened room in a basement somewhere ;) But I stand by my original point, that I feel like this post is leaning a little (more than usual) in that direction - hence my 'whoa there!' response and use of a few sharp words.

      Thanks again for the response, Tom. And Andrew, I really appreciate that your blog attracts people who can have a reasonable, respectful discussion over a disagreement.

      x TDMJ

  13. Sometimes there are issues that can't be change. Sometimes there is no solution you could offer.

  14. I would argue that there are very few people, men & women alike, who are delusional about how they look. In fact, more often than not, I am my own worst enemy. The friends that I consider my "true" friends aren't the ones who lie to me about myself. Nor are they the women who deal me the harsh truth. Rather, they are the very few ladies that accept me just the way I am.

    1. “I would argue that there are very few people, men & women alike, who are delusional about how they look”

      There is one category of people who are totally deluded by how they look: average/ugly women who pick up the really hot guys in bars, and then assume that they are equivalent to the hot guy, and can therefore snag a relationship with one.

      These guys are simply horny and will drop their standards remarkably for an easy lay. It is astonishing to witness this phenomenon - week after week I see average women bringing home the hottest guys from the clubs and bars. I know he won’t call her again. He knows he won’t call her again – so why don’t women know?!

      Could someone (preferably a female commenter) please explain to me why so many women just don’t seem to get this?

    2. @Thomas---I think average women who go home with hot men are just doing the "wishful thinking" thing and not planning ahead---they're just feeling an ego boost at the moment without considering how fast he will be gone.

      These women want to tell themselves that they're hot enough for these guys, but deep down, they know they're not. Or maybe they come from an affluent family and can afford lots of pretty clothes and beauty treatments, or have a degree or some professional accomplishment that they mistakenly believe makes them significantly more valuable as a mate, when it actually doesn't. They're seeking validation from men above their league and it backfires.

      It was suggested to me today that I have the opposite effect---that apparently I'm a lot more attractive than I think. As I've stated before, I never aim higher than my league and play it safe. A really hot guy who I actually have a lot in common with hit on me this weekend, but I didn't even think twice about blowing him off.

      However, the current flame of an average guy I've dated in the past got pissy with me in public this weekend. She had been drinking, and she confronted me when I had committed no offense. I hadn't even acknowledged her current (my former) date that night, but other people said that she was too insecure to tolerate my presence there.

      I really don't think of myself as hot. But I'm also divorced with 2 kids, so maybe my confidence has taken a nose dive. But I do take very good care of myself. I'm fit enough to rival women much younger than me and have very long, thick hair, etc.

      Even if I'm not a ten, would women who are fives or sixes really get that riled up about a woman who is a seven or eight? Any guys here ever date a woman who came unglued about an ex of yours who was more attractive than her?

    3. @Thomas. I don't think these girls are delusional. They're just plain stupid. They need to read Andrew's post "Don't Fuck on the First Date."

    4. Thanks for your reply Tracey Denise.

      Thanks for explaining why these women pick-up the hunks for some one-night lovin.

      ”the current flame of an average guy I've dated in the past got pissy with me in public this weekend…other people said that she was too insecure to tolerate my presence there.”

      Yeah I’ve seen this happen before too. Aargh, have they no self-respect! Even if your presence does affect her, one would think she’d have the cop-on to disguise it, as it blatantly makes her look jealous and insecure. Not a good look.

      ”I really don't think of myself as hot.”

      It’s funny; I often get a sense of how hot someone is simply from reading their comments. There’s just something about the tone of the way a woman writes that conveys her dating experiences, although I realize that I’ve no way of verifying my hunches. I’ll take it that you’re hot :)

      “Even if I'm not a ten, would women who are fives or sixes really get that riled up about a woman who is a seven or eight?”

      I suppose it would depend on how secure the particular individual is. The equivalent situation for me would be to consider how I would feel if confronted with a guy who’s better-looking and more successful than me. That’s never happened before though so I can’t comment. Lol

      “Any guys here ever date a woman who came unglued about an ex of yours who was more attractive than her?”

      I’ve never been in this situation as I’m pretty careful with how I handle the ex issue, just in case it triggers any of these unhelpful complications. Therefore, I never discuss exes or show their photos etc. – especially if they were more attractive. If I was to bump into an ex whilst with my current girl I would really hope for my current girl to be the hotter of the two. Wouldn’t we all I suppose.

  15. Just wanted to point out that Emily L has written a guest post over at Just Four Guys about trying "girl game" and so some of you might be interested in reading it.


  16. I am always tactfully honest with my female friends but since Im the 'hotter friend', my comments regarding their bad decisions in terms of looks and guys ends up making them feel insecure and threatened. Safe to say, my female friend count is pretty low.

  17. Women want to emotionally support one another. Honesty is obviously important, but so is gauging how well said friend will take the truth. Some people you can be blunt yet polite with. Others you can be careful and tactful with, and some you can only hint at the truth with.

    And some, like an old classmate I've been avoiding, just refuse to accept even the most obvious realities. She's been married five times, has three kids, each by a different man, she's obese, and she puts no effort into her appearance at all. She's constantly asking for advice, and heartbroken half of the time. She instantly latches onto any male who shows her any attention at all, and sobs and begs to be treated right.

    I've told her repeatedly to try to take better care of herself. To think of herself first. Go to a salon, buy herself some nice clothes, love herself first and then find a guy who deserves her effort. But she either can't or won't. Her current beau is a recently released ex-con whose left her for a week at a time, three times now. He keeps going back to her because she's an RN with a decent paycheck, and it's obvious, and I've told her so, but she just smiles sadly and changes the subject.

    Hence my avoiding her. I've come to the conclusion that she's a lost cause. Why she keeps asking old friends for advice when she doesn't have the will power to act on it, I have no idea.

  18. Hey Andrew,

    Thanks for your blog, I think you are a very masculine individual and that's why you wrote this post and believe what you believe. I appreciate your blog here, it is a great alternative perspective for women.

    I wanted to say I feel like this post touts Masculine 'truth'...which Masculine people can serve each other with.

    The problem is though, that the feminine souls in the world thrive on praise...it's important to praise before insisting on truth so that a woman feels more radiant. If she doesn't feel radiant, she doesn't feel love, and that dampens her feminine spirit. AND her attractiveness.

    But I WOULD say this, because my blog (TheFeminineWoman.com) is for the feminine women and I already believe that to help women we need to acknowledge that in some situations, praise serves a better purpose than truth does.

    1. As a fairly feminine woman myself, I understand what you're getting at, but I think there's a way to combine both what you're saying and what Andrew is saying:

      It is true that women thrive on praise. It is also, true, though, that they thrive most on praise when they feel that that praise is deserved. That's why compliments make women glow, but only *sincere* compliments. We don't like insincere compliments, because we can sense their insincerity and sense that someone is just saying something to flatter us rather than to appreciate something that they genuinely feel we have to offer.

      My best friend and I have used tough love with each other, to good effect. I expect nothing but honesty from her, and she expects nothing but honesty from me (because really, who else is going to be willing to be that honest with us? How else can we figure out what areas of our life could use improvement?) It also seems as though, if women genuinely ONLY wanted praise, they probably wouldn't be reading self-help blogs.

      So the combination:

      It's possible to point out some area of your girl friend's weakness, and then, once she starts doing something about it, praise her. Praise her attempts to do something about it. If you've noticed that she's gained weight, and you gently say something to her about it, and she starts making a commitment to exercising again, praise her. If you've noticed she doesn't eat any vegetables, and she starts eating some, praise her. That kind of praise is sincere and encouraging, rather than being insincere praise just to make her feel better.

    2. Hey Mary, yeah your point has value.

      And aiming for a combination and balance in the way you've described is very thoughtful!

      The exercise thing...what about saying to our woman friend who has put on weight, 'woah...remember that time you came back from that run the other month/year? I remember looking at you thinking, my god, I wish I had that kind of dedication you have! and you looked absolutely amazing in those running shorts!' (or some variation based on past effort of the friend to lose weight)

      Which one would feel more infinite to a woman though? The gentle reminder FIRST? Or the preoccupation with praise that I just suggested here?

      In all honesty...the praise lights up my heart. The honesty does something for the GOAL oriented me, but not the light in me. I am dulled by honesty, but that doesn't mean I'm not challenged by the truth and I don't value the TRUTH - I respect people giving me the truth.

      It just doesn't inspire my heart nor my radiance.

      Each thing in its own context has it own good value! :)

  19. Andrew Andrew...why would I be honest with my friends? All that would do is encourage competition. I tell my fat friends that they look good because I want them to stay fat. Someday, I am sure someone will love them....for who they are on the inside. I'd feel bad but I work my ass off to keep it tight. And it is. I have no sympathy for hamster-wheeling without actual exercise. Meanwhile, I am the nice, sweet, thin girl who is never single (of course, I act like I have no idea why this is the case when I am around my friends).

    I guess I understand your frustration as a man. If women did not lie to each other you'd have an abundance of sweet thin girls to choose from to marry. Instead you are stuck with unattractive easy FWB and high competition for the beautiful chaste women. WAIT!! I am one of those beautiful choosy women....and I love having my pick of the litter...never mind......

  20. Lmao. This has to be one of the funniest female comments I've ever seen. Astounding.

    Makes one wonder, if by such logic, this blog shouldn't exist?

    "I want them to stay fat"
    Damn. By nook or by crook, the very pinnacle of competitiveness.

    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

    2. Thank you digra. That is high praise. I'm sure most women are not this calculating when they lie, but it is the underlying reason. It is never going to change, which is why this post is ridiculous.

      That being said, even by this logic this blog should exist. This competitive mindset only goes so far. If my friend were sleeping with a man clearly not interested in dating her, would I tell her to wait for him? When she talks about the "boyfriend-like" things he does such as cuddling, should I let her get her hopes up? All for the purpose of sabotaging her? No, that is a bit much.

      So I suppose in the three areas of girl game (attraction, approachability, filtering) women need to stop lying about the last two and this blog could help with that. But in terms of the physical, women will always lie to each other.

    3. Right.

      I guess "sabotaging" has a very flexible meaning then, depending on the situation.. some people may say both examples you show here are one and the same thing. Is it 'real' friendships you're talking about - as opposed to self-gratifying, status-boosting exercises?

      Being a man myself, I kinda get the "I want them to stay fat" - IF I don't regard them as friends. Personally, I like to see my friends develop themselves and thrive (whichever way that suits them). Alas for female friendships, if your portrayal has any truth to it.

    4. Well, to delve deeper I have a few true friendships, for sure, where I enjoy seeing mutual self-improvement. They are very rare to come by for women and we only get a few of these friends throughout our lives. But they are women I feel have equal attractiveness to myself, so I don't ever find myself in a situation where lying is an issue. The issues spoken of on this post do not apply.

      Usually where lying is the issue is if there is a slight power dynamic. If one girl is bigger, the smaller one will tell her she looks good. I would never ask a girl bigger than me if I looked fat in those jeans. Same for beauty, confidence, etc. These relationships are more utilitarian anyways, the less attractive girl gets attention and network experiences with hot guys. The beauty gets confirmation she is better than someone. The majority of a woman's friendships are these latter superficial friendships, whether she is a beauty or not.

      Ehh anyways this is what I have observed as a female.

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