Bars Are a Bad Place to Meet Women

I've met the majority of the women I've dated in bars. There have been plenty of girls that I've met through friends or randomly in public, but in bars, the sheer density of attractive, young, single women is enormously greater than it is on the street or beach or office (or anywhere else); and my dating history reflects that. I've made the point previously that the higher concentration of the opposite sex in nightlife venues is a good thing, and I stand by what I said. But as I've gotten older and come to know myself better, I've recognized two serious disadvantages to meeting women in this way.

1. Randomness

The first thing I've realized is that I don't value the way that I meet women I meet in bars – that is, I don’t value the process itself. I was telling this recently to a girl that I know, and she suggested that it was because meeting girls in bars is "too random." I think this is the common supposition - namely, that because you don't have any history or connection with the people that you meet in bars, there is no foundation for a relationship, and so any attempt at one is doomed. But this isn't the problem. A strong foundation for a relationship is just as much a function of personal compatibility as it is a function of common history or connections. Meeting the opposite sex in a bar isn't unsuccessful for lack of foundation, and it isn't unsuccessful because it is random. It is unsuccessful precisely because it isn't random.

Randomness is actually what we all want, in the sense that we all want our "how we met" story to be unique and unexpected. The more random it is that you met someone to whom you find yourself deeply attracted, the more special it feels, because you know that you were incredibly lucky for it to happen. It's the same phenomenon that makes people appreciate life so much after a near-death experience. You value what you have because you know that you almost didn't have it. As absurd as most romantic comedies are, it says something about our ideals of romance that so many of them start with some permutation of a girl hitting a guy on a bike with her car - randomly - and then falling in love with him. Things are romantic at least partially because they are unexpected, that is, seemingly impossible or unreal. I probably don't need to explain to most women how un-romantic it is to receive flowers on Valentine's Day. It might be nice, and it might be better than never receiving flowers, but it isn't romantic because it is too predictable. It isn't random at all.

Being picked up in a bar also isn't random at all. In fact, it is exactly the opposite of random; it is boring because it is too mechanical, too planned. Guys know that they want to meet girls, they know where to find them, and they go there to do so. Girls know that they want to meet men, they know where they will be hit on, and they go there for that reason. The encounter might take place in an exciting, fast-paced and sexually-charged atmosphere, but that's just superficial ornamentation. Underneath, those meetings are absolutely bland, because they are absolutely intentional.

Yes, obviously, not everyone in a bar is there with the conscious intention of meeting the opposite sex, but the percentage of people who are is infinitely higher in nightlife environments than it is in, say, a shopping mall. And following the train of thought described above, we project that intention onto every person we meet in a nightlife environment, then down-rate the value of those encounters accordingly. I don't value the women I meet in bars because there is nothing special about the way we met.

2. Difficulty

The second thing I realized is that I don't value the effort I make to meet girls in bars. There isn't necessarily anything wrong with the girls themselves, but I don't respect my relationships with them because I didn't have to work very hard to make those relationships happen. Men are very keenly aware that things of low value are easy to obtain, and so we assume (and in most cases are right) that things that are easy to obtain are low in value. A man might have the best job in the world, but he'll never feel good about it as long as he knows that he only got it because his father pulled strings with his professional contacts to make it happen. The same mentality applies in dating.

It hasn't always been this way for me. In my early twenties, approaching a random girl in a bar and attracting her enough to get her phone number took balls and felt like a real accomplishment - because at the time, for me, it was. I was able to have genuine relationships with girls that I met in bars because I respected myself for meeting girls in bars. But I don't anymore, because it has become too easy, too boring. Without the challenges that my adolescent social anxiety used to pose, all I see in bars is a social scene hugely facilitated by dark lighting, loud music, commotion and alcohol. They’re still a great place to have fun and get laid, but they’re not the kind of place where I expect to find a relationship anymore.

Now, does this mean that bars are a bad place to meet guys, or that you should stop going out?

Not necessarily. Despite the fairly categorical nature of this post's title, what I am really saying here is that bars are a bad place for me to meet women at this point in my life. I am no relativist, but the reasons explained above don’t apply to every guy, and they don't apply in every situation. If you meet a guy tomorrow who is the way I was at 22, for whom it is a big deal to meet a girl in a bar, then this isn't going to be an issue at all. And even if the guy you meet in a bar is exactly like me in the sense that it isn't a challenge for him, there is still the possibility of something working out; it just means that you are getting off on the wrong foot. If there is a strong enough connection, "how you met" probably won't be enough to prevent or disrupt it.

There is also the chance that there will be some other coincidence that makes the encounter incredibly random, despite the environment – maybe you find out that you both come from the same town on the other side of the country, or that you have identical ancestry, or that you are both obsessed with the same nerdy sci-fi movie, even though you met in a nightclub. And as I explained in previous posts, you still have to consider the disadvantages posed by what I've explained above, along-side the low probability of getting off on the right foot somewhere less intentional, like a shopping mall or at work.

No, I am not saying that you shouldn't go to bars. I am saying that you should be cognizant of the fact that men – just like women – will not respect or value what comes too easily, whether it comes too easily because (a) it is too mechanical or (b) because it requires very little effort. The converse of this is that men will value their encounter with you in proportion to how (a) unlikely or (b) difficult it was. While this doesn't mean that you should lock yourself in a steel cage and only accept men who are willing to tear it down to get to you, it does mean that you should avoid situations in which every man has easy access to you.

Incidentally, this post could also have been written about online dating, or anything else that dramatically facilitates meeting the opposite sex. You might think of bars and online dating as completely different – even opposites – but they share the strong similarity of taking the difficulty out of approaching (and therefore, being approached by) the opposite sex. Even though it seems like an ideal situation on the surface, the reality is that, for many men and women, bars and online dating are shortcuts. And no one wants to know that they got something important to them by taking a shortcut. Even if online dating or going to bars isn't a shortcut for you, be aware that it might be a shortcut for the guy, and that he is liable to respect himself and the relationship less because of it.


Related Posts
1. Bars Are a Good Place to Meet Guys – Part 1
2. How "Hard to Get" Should You Play?
3. Don’t Initiate Contact
4. Why You Don’t Get Approached by Men

If a Man Talks to You, He Likes You

I have made this point before, but only briefly; and as simple as the point is, it warrants further explanation.

If a man goes out of his way to interact with you, he is interested in you romantically or sexually - at least to some degree. A lot of women don’t realize this, because when they approach a man (for example, to ask directions in the street), they don’t do so with romantic or sexual intention. They wrongly project their own lack of intention onto the men who approach them. They think “When I approach a man, I don’t have romantic or sexual motives; so this guy asking me for directions has no ulterior motives.” But they are wrong.

If you are skeptical about this, consider that the same phenomenon is manifested in men. Men always “get the wrong idea” when a woman responds to their texts, or engages them in conversation in a bar, or doesn't spit on them and walk off when they ask her for directions. The truth may be that the girl is just being polite, or that she genuinely believes the guy just needs directions, but the man projects his own intentions onto her. He thinks “When I talk to a woman even for casual reasons, it is because I like her. This woman is talking to me, so she must like me.”

Yes, of course, there are exceptions to this rule. Sometimes a guy genuinely needs directions, or really is just talking to you to kill time at the bus station. But the point is that these exceptions are far rarer than you think. In fact, the exceptions are so rare that you are better off always assuming that men who approach you are interested than you are questioning it each time. In the rare instances that a man isn't interested, you have nothing to lose by assuming that he is; and the increased confidence you’ll have knowing that he is into you will help you to be your best self in his presence, which will attract him further.

Related Posts

1. Lean How To Be Social

2. Why Women Don't Know What Men Want

3. Yeah, That's About Right

4. Men Don't Fall In Love The Same Way Women Do

No, You Aren't a Good Wing Woman

The other night I was out with a friend who had invited some of his coworkers to join us at the bar. A couple of these coworkers were girls. After everyone had arrived, my friend and I started looking around and talking about which girls in the bar we wanted to talk to. One of his female coworkers overheard us and immediately lit up. She jumped into the conversation: “Oh! Which one do you like? Point her out to me. I’ll go and…”

“Wait.” I said, interrupting her. I knew exactly what she was going to say. “Let me guess. You are going to walk over there and get her to talk to me, because you are ‘a great wing woman’ – right?”

The expression of surprise that broke across her face made it clear that I’d hit the nail on the head. But her enthusiasm wasn't deflated yet.

“I am a great wing woman!” she insisted. “Come on, point her out to me, I am awesome at this.”

“Haha riiiight,” I said sarcastically, “you and every other girl…”

I've had this conversation with girls dozens of times. In fact, I've never met a girl who has claimed to be anything less than "the best" or "a great" wing woman. And every time I've let them demonstrate their "skill," they've failed miserably. Unleashing my frustration at so many similarly self-deceived women, I explained this to her, then drove my point home:

“Girls seem to think that ‘being a good wing woman’ means walking up to another girl and asking her about some article of clothing she is wearing, or where she gets her hair done, and then ‘subtly’ (and by subtly I mean abruptly) transitioning into ‘hey, you have to meet my friend Andrew.’ It’s completely transparent, makes me look like I don’t have the balls to do it myself, and generally undermines any chance I would have had with her to begin with. So, I am sorry, but no, you aren't a good wing woman; and no, you cannot help.”

Enthusiasm now deflated, she turned and went to find her other coworkers.

I realize that not every girl thinks she is a “great wing woman,” but I am continually surprised at how many do, how unoriginal their approach invariably is, how vacuous their claims of greatness are, and how enthusiastic they are about the whole thing. My only guess is that, being so used to a passive role in the whole “pickup” exchange, these girls believe that the opposite task is simple, and simultaneously want to exercise some kind of agency in the process for once – in the same way that many men believe that girls "just" have to look good and show up, and would love to have a girl take the initiative from time to time. In any case, after letting a few girls try and fail at it, I've stopped humoring them.

I've actually had one good experience with a girl helping me to meet another girl. However, the “wing woman” never claimed to be good at what she did. In fact I didn't know until afterwards that her “game” was premeditated. Here is what happened:

My friend and I were part of a large group. He and I were talking to Girl A, who knew that I was attracted to her friend, Girl B. Girl B was talking to some other friends in another small group nearby. Without asking my permission or announcing her intentions, Girl A subtly leaned into Girl B’s group, and asked her a quick question. This drew her into our conversation. We shifted around naturally as Girl B joined our group, and Girl A positioned herself next to my friend, leaving me next to Girl B. We all talked in a group for a few minutes. Once I asked a direct question to the Girl B, Girl A turned to my friend and asked him a direct question also, splitting the conversation into two couples. A moment later, Girl A turned slightly to face my friend, so that Girl B and I were further isolated in a personal conversation. Girl B and I talked like this for about 15 minutes, and then I got her number. It was seamless.

It was so seamless, in fact, that I was suspicious, and I asked Girl A afterwards if she’d done all of that intentionally. She smiled knowingly, nodded, and didn't say another word about it. I was impressed.

So next time you find yourself tempted to brag about your wing-woman skills, stop yourself and re-learn the age-old lesson from Girl A: actions speak louder than words.


Related Posts
1. Don’t Talk Yourself Up
2. Don't Try to Be One of The Guys
3. No, You Can't Be "Just Friends"
4. How to Make Yourself Approachable

What it Is Like to Approach Women

I've heard a lot of girls make the following comment:

This guy at the bar was staring at me all night, but he never approached. What's the big deal?? If he likes me, he should just come talk to me! I want him to; why is he so intimidated? 

Or others have said essentially the same thing in suggesting that

A guy doesn't need to use pickup lines to talk to get girls. He just needs to say "hi" to get the girl he likes.

The truth, of course, is that a guy just needs to say "hi" to get the girl that likes him. To get a girl without her prior interest, he "just" needs to impress her with his confidence and bearing when he approaches. He "just" needs to be calm and carry the conversation without making himself look like an idiot. The guy who stares at the girl across the bar but never approaches knows that this will be difficult to do when his pride, reputation and success all hinge on his performance (in fact, as we know from the quote above, he judges that it is too difficult, maybe impossible, and never approaches).

Consider what seems at first to be a relatively obvious and uninteresting fact: virtually all men need to drink alcohol before they will approach a woman they are attracted to. Think about that: virtually all men need to drink alcohol before they will approach a woman they are attracted to. You might not be able to empathize with the difficulty of approaching women, but this fact tells you pretty much all you need to know. Pause for a moment and ask yourself what other social actions are so unnerving that people would almost categorically get intoxicated before doing them (if it were socially acceptable to do so). Public speaking maybe? A big job interview? Confronting a good friend about something very important to you? A lot of people get nervous about these kinds of things long before doing them - hours, days, or sometimes even weeks in advance. Approaching a random, attractive woman is easily on the same difficulty level for the vast majority of men, and for a large number of them, it is much harder.

I am sure some female readers are thinking "That is ridiculous; it shouldn't be that difficult." Fine. Great. Maybe it shouldn't. I could say the same thing about public speaking; it shouldn't be that difficult either. But normative statements aside, the fact is that, for most people, it is. To paint this picture as clearly as possible, I am going to draw a quick analogy...

Imagine that every time you wanted to go on a first date to a guy, you first had to get up and speak in front of a full classroom or conference. Imagine you are walking down the aisle in the grocery store and a tall, attractive man turns towards you and is about to say something, when suddenly everything freezes and you find yourself sitting in a high-school classroom, being told that next week you will be expected to speak in front of the class, alone, for 15 minutes about an assigned topic. Remember that feeling of dread you used to get when the teacher made that announcement? That is precisely how it feels for most men when they are faced with approaching a random hot girl for the first time.

But it isn't even that simple. For the analogy to be accurate, you won't only have to swallow your pride, get up there, and do the presentation, but you will actually have to achieve a grade of 80 % or higher if you want the guy to ask for your phone number. It will be difficult to present the material naturally when you are nervous, because you will probably rush through it, maybe forget certain details, or speak too quietly. You posture will matter a lot too, but it is difficult to stand up straight when you are nervous. So your nerves will not only make accepting the challenge difficult, but they also destroy your chances of earning the requisite 80 %. Actually summoning up the guts to push through that initial fear is nowhere near enough.

Don't forget that in addition to the quality of your public speaking itself, the content of your presentation will need to be interesting and original. You won't be able to impress the class or the teacher with mere poise; you will also have to show them that you know what you are talking about - that you are intelligent and understand the material well. At the same time, you shouldn't overdo this demonstration, because if you try too hard to impress them, it will be obvious that your knowledge isn't organic, that it was rehearsed for this event only.

There is more. Remember that you will be graded on a curve, relative to the other students giving presentations - just like a man is always judged relative to a woman's other male options. And there will always be other students in the class that are naturally more gifted than you. Remember that nerd that always looked like he owned the class when he got up there to give his presentation? Not only was he confident, but he also made it painfully clear that he knew exactly what he was talking about - probably better even than the teacher. You were the first in the class to present, and he was one of the last students. Trying to get a better grade on your presentation than that kid is what it is like for most guys who want to talk to that beautiful brunette in the corner, who is standing right next to a 6'3" athletic, good-looking and cocky guy, who has probably bedded dozens of girls like her. You got up in front of the class to compete with the nerd because your teacher required it. Would you have done it if you'd been given the chance to opt out? What motivation does the guy in the bar have to challenge himself?

In fact, it is a huge testament to the depth of the male desire for sexual companionship (and I don't mean that only in the physical sense) that we push through these fears and nerves - yes, sometimes with the help of alcohol or game - in order to talk to and attract women. We do routinely get up in front of the class, swallow our pride and nerves and try our best to beat that nerdy kid with the killer public speaking skills and nerves of steel. And we often do it without any external motivation.

I am not trying to glorify the struggles of men, nor am I am trying to excuse our weaknesses. I am simply trying to show the girls who say things like those quoted at the start of this post that the male-female comparison isn't as simple as they believe; and I think analogies like this one go a long way towards doing so. If public-speaking isn't something you find difficult, then you can substitute it for whatever makes you nervous. Maybe for you it is going on roller-coasters or telling someone you care about that you love them for the first time. The point is that this kind of comparison will help you understand - and hopefully, therefore, appreciate - how difficult it can be for a guy to approach or pursue a girl he really likes. This understanding will count towards your general understanding of male behavior, which in turn will serve to improve your chances with men.


Related Posts
1. What it Is Like to Be Rejected by Girls
2. The Upper Hand In Relationships
3. How To Make Yourself Approachable
4. Why Men Don't Approach You During the Day
5. The More Confident He Is, The Less He Likes You

Yeah, That's About Right

Hi Andrew,

I would like to start this email with a sincere compliment about how much I have enjoyed your blog over the past few months since I discovered it. You have given me so much food for thought, whether I agree with you or not, and challenge my opinions and perceptions of the male-female dynamic. I am thankful that you take the time to write this blog.  : )

I have a suggestion for one of your blog posts. I very frequently find that women are quite obtuse when it comes to knowing when a man is hitting on her. When I was younger, my father once said, "Nicole, if a man you don't know is talking to you for any reason, he is hitting on you."

When I share this piece of information with my females friends, they scoff. "NO! That's not true! What if he needed directions? Or help picking out a ripe cantaloupe at the market? Or the best bus to take to get downtown the fastest?" The list goes on and on. On the flip side, when I share my dad's advice with another guy and ask his opinion of it, their response is almost always, "Yeah, that's about right."

The reason I bring this up is because I think there are many women out there that may not be able to recognize when a man is hitting on them or trying to pick them up. Perhaps if women were more attuned to when they were being hit on, their success of flirting and engaging with men would be greater. If you agree, I have a feeling that a post about this would be very helpful to your female readers.

Thanks so much and keep up the good work!

Much love,
Nicole
____________________________________________

Nicole,

Yeah, that's about right.

Andrew


Related Posts
1. Misconceptions
2. "The Wong Kind of Attention"
3. Why Women Don't Know What Men Want
4. Why You Don't Get Approached by Men

Why Men Don't Approach You During The Day

A reader recently asked in the comments of another post:

I saw you made a Twitter post about women wearing makeup to the gym... 

I go to the gym in my local area a few times per week. I'm one of those girls who wear makeup, albeit not a lot. I am 22, have a good figure and wear tight workout wear.

I have never been approached at the gym. I would have loved to be - there are many attractive men there, and it's in my local high-end area - they're well educated and successful guys, often attractive too. Sometimes I think they may be an age group a bit too old and that some of them are married. 

I usually get hit on quite a lot in bars. I see your posts about being around men and making yourself attractive to them. I follow all of that advice - I don't think I have a problem with the attractiveness part. I would love to be asked out in any of these scenes (gym, college...), because I feel I would have more of a guarantee that they're the right guys, but I am simply not. I sometimes catch them looking, but they never ever come over.

What is it? Are men too shy during the day? Or are there some things women must specifically do to make themselves approachable in daytime scenarios?

I probably should have addressed this question a long time ago, when I covered topics like Why You Don't Get Approached by Men and How To Make Yourself Approachable. In any case, there is a simple answer: men don't approach much during the day because there is a much greater social barrier to doing so. In a bar environment, social interaction is expected. People are there to socialize, if not there with the actual intention of meeting members of the opposite sex. Alcohol also facilitates the interaction a great deal, since it makes men relaxed and takes some of the difficulty out of the approach.

In other venues, like the gym, the grocery store, a shopping mall, or just on the street, most people are there to get something done. They aren't there to meet people; they are there to work out, or pick up some milk, get a new pair of jeans, or get home before it starts raining. Especially in the United States, which is a very accomplishment-focused culture, these activities are packed into an already tight schedule. And while this isn't always the case, and isn't an absolute bar to approaching a woman, it gives a man another excuse to talk himself out of an already nerve-racking experience. It is so much easier for him to tell himself "she is probably busy, and I probably wouldn't like her anyway" than it is to barge into her personal space and face rejection.

Your cause isn't helped by the following factors:

• In public places like the gym or a bus, men who want to approach you would be more easily over-heard, so the embarrassment of failure would be greater than in a bar or nightclub.
• Most women tell men "I would never want to be hit on at the gym. I am all gross and sweaty when I am at the gym. I don't want a guy approaching me; I just want to work out in peace." I can't count the number of times I've heard women say this. Granted, I usually understand this to be a self-serving comment, meant to display the fact that (a) men want to hit on them at the gym, and that (b) they have so much attention from men that they don't care. But unfortunately the effect on the male population is the same nonetheless: it tells men that women want to be left alone during their workout or daily activities.
• Most women wear headphones and listen to music when they are in the gym, on the train, or walking down the street. This only heightens the sense that, when people aren't in the segmented few hours of their life assigned to "socializing," they are off limits to meeting strangers. If you follow me on Twitter you will remember the tweet I made recently about women wearing headphones in public. (Men do this too, of course, but it is less of an issue when it comes to being approached, since men normally do the approaching.)

So the short answer to your question is that men don't approach you in the gym or other day-times venues because they have to take much more social risk in order to do so. Most men can't get up the balls to approach a woman at night, so the added deterrents during the day make it even less likely.

One final note: although you aren't as likely to be approached during the day, and may therefore question the importance of always looking your best, it is worth considering that you are much more likely to be incidentally thrown into interaction with men during the day - for example, when you have a brief conversation with the hot guy at the front desk as you check in at the gym, or when you repeatedly run into an attractive guy at your favorite lunch spot. Not to mention that, by regularly paying attention to how you present yourself, you will learn how to improve your look and thereby optimize your chances in nightlife venues as well.


Related Posts
1. Bars Are a Good Place to Meet Guys - Part 1
2. You Always Go To The Gym. And You Like It.
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Should You Give a Guy Your Last Name?

I used to ask girls for their last name when I got their phone numbers. I would do this for two reasons:

1. Because it was normally a hint about their ethnic background or family history, which could lead to interesting conversation or tell me a little more about her.
2. Because there was an empty field for it in my phone contact and I felt compelled to complete it.

A lot of girls balked at my request for their last name. This was understandable, since they didn't know me well, and I supposed they didn't like the idea that I might be able to look them up online. Enough women refused (I'd say more than half) that I eventually stopped asking. After all, I would learn it eventually, and it didn't matter much in the meantime. I could curb my need to complete the empty field in my contacts, and if I was curious to know their ethnic background I would just ask about it.

I suspect other guys have had similar experiences, so it is fair to say that most men won't mind if you don't give them your last name - this is expected. Certainly they won't hold it against you if they ask for it and you tell them "I'll tell you when we get to know each other a little better."

However, on rare occasions I will ask a girl for her number and she will actually volunteer her last name. This seems like a small thing, but in retrospect it goes a long way in forming my initial impression of a girl. Again, I would never hold it against her if she didn't want to give me her last name, but her offering it is like a breath of fresh air. In the middle of a world of skepticism, mistrust, and concern about stalking, you suddenly stumble upon someone who trusts, who is open, candid, and unassuming. Some might call these girls naive, but from the perspective of a guy who is genuinely interested in getting to know her, it is a sign of goodwill, openness and trust. This is very endearing and feminine. People tend to expect from others what they are disposed to themselves, so a girl who is willing to give you her last name is the kind of girl that assumes the best of everyone - probably because she is a good person herself. This is the kind of girl that men like.

So the next time he is taking down your number, offer your last name too.

How to Get "The Right Kind of Attention"

My model for understanding the way a woman acts and dresses has always been something like this: the more a woman dresses like a slut, the more attractive she is; but the more a woman acts like a slut, the less attractive she is. In other words, the most attractive women are those who dress like whores but act like good girls. Impossible, right? Probably. But it is the ideal nonetheless, just like a woman's ideal is a man who is extremely powerful and physically attractive, yet in touch with his emotions and sweet - which also does not exist.

In any case, I was out the other night and I ran into a girl I'd met a few weeks before at the same bar. We started talking, and somehow got onto the topic of how women dress...

"It's simple for a girl" she said. "If you want to pick up a guy to get laid, or to make out, you wear a short, tight skirt and low-cut cleavage. But if you want to meet a guy to date, you..."

"...wear something modest." I interrupted, somewhat smugly. "That's what every girl thinks and it's complete bullshit." I was about to explain to her that good guys and bad guys alike are both equally attracted to a woman's body, and that behaving modestly is far more important than dressing modestly, when she cut me off:

"Wait, I wasn't finished! That wasn't what I was going to say at all. I was going to say that you have to choose one or the other."

"One or the other?" I asked. "What do you mean?"

"I mean you either wear the short, tight skirt, or the plunging neckline - but not both."

I was silent. I literally paused for several seconds, thinking about what she said. I was still somewhat shocked by the fact that she didn't buy into the absurdly false cliche that a woman attracts good men by pretending that good men don't have sexual impulses; but I was also intrigued by the nuance of her idea. It was honest, and it bore the hallmark complexity of truth.

"Huh... That's really interesting." I said, pensively. "I actually spend entirely too much time thinking about these kinds of things, and haven't thought of that before. You might be on to something." I paused again for a few seconds. "I need to think about it more, but I like the idea regardless. I've always thought that women are more attractive the sluttier they dress and the more modestly they act, but I might have to re-consider that now."

The jury is still out. The girl won't return my calls either...


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